Bilderberg Group (get your tin-hat ready)

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

David Cameron to attend Bilderberg group meeting

Downing Street defends visit to secretive group, where prime minister will not be accompanied by civil servants



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Nicholas Watt (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/nicholaswatt), chief political correspondent
guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/), Friday 7 June 2013 12.38 BST
Jump to comments (137) (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/07/david-cameron-attend-bilderberg-group#start-of-comments)

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/7/1370604943137/Bilderberg-at-Grove-hotel-009.jpg Police outside the Grove hotel where the Bilderberg group is meeting. Photograph: Oli Scarff/Getty Images

David Cameron (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/davidcameron) is to attend the secretive Bilderberg group (http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/index.php) at the luxury Grove hotel in Watford on Friday evening, in a move that is likely to raise questions about his pledge to lead Britain's most transparent government.
Downing Street said it was acting in an open manner by publicising the prime minister's attendance in advance.
The PM's spokesman, who said heads of government of countries hosting the annual Bilderberg (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/bilderberg) meeting were usually invited to attend, said it would be a private event and that civil servants were not expected to attend.
No 10 is to clarify the position because ministers are usually expected to be accompanied by civil service note-takers when they meet business leaders. Henri de Castries, the chairman and CEO of the AXA Group, is the Bilderberg chairman.
The PM's spokesman said: "He will participate in a discussion around domestic and global economic issues. He feels it is an opportunity to discuss economic issues with senior ministers, businesspeople and academics."
Downing Street said that it would not publicise any details of the prime minister's meetings. "It is a private meeting so we are not going to go into any further details," the spokesman said.
"On a wider point the prime minister has always been clear about the importance of transparency which is why this government has taken a number of steps in terms of publishing more data, more information about meetings."
The ministerial code (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ministerial-code), published by the government in September 2010, said that "external meetings" held by ministers would be published on a quarterly basis. It says: "Ministers meet many people and organisations and consider a wide range of views as part of the formulation of government policy. Departments will publish, at least quarterly, details of ministers' external meetings."
Cameron and Nick Clegg pledged when they formed the coalition to lead the most transparent government to date. The coalition agreement said: "The government believes that we need to throw open the doors of public bodies, to enable the public to hold politicians and public bodies to account."
No 10 said it did not believe that civil servants would accompany the prime minister. Asked whether he would be accompanied by officials, the PM's spokesman said: "I am not aware of any officials going. But I am happy to double check."
Cameron's attendance at the meeting brings to three the number of British ministers who will attend this year's Bilderberg group summit. George Osborne is attending and Kenneth Clarke, the former chancellor, is a member of the group's steering committee (http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/governance.html).
The Bilderberg group says the costs of the annual meeting are the responsibility of the steering group, whose members include the former Barclays chairman Marcus Agius, the CEO of the defence manufacturer EADS, Thomas Enders, and the Goldman Sachs chairman, Peter Sutherland.
The group says: "There is no detailed agenda, no resolutions are proposed, no votes are taken, and no policy statements are issued."

They don't take notes and don't let journos in etc, nor do they release any statements. This is a collection of world leaders and prominent business-people (as we know). What do they do? Do they just have a laugh and drink or is David Cameron perhaps going along to sell off the NHS? Is there a Chinese representation amidst the paranoia in the west about China? Any ideas? We don't really know and I suppose this is what gets people paranoid. I don't think its about being a one-world government or anything but I imagine they try to set agendas for things like business deals, policies and even in relation to global conflicts.

[ed miliband]

Is it really be that surprising if powerful people get together like this?

[The Douche]

They don't take notes and don't let journos in etc, nor do they release any statements. This is a collection of world leaders and prominent business-people (as we know). What do they do? Do they just have a laugh and drink or is David Cameron perhaps going along to sell of the NHS? Any ideas? We don't really know and I suppose this is what gets people paranoid.

Probably a bit of both. Just like when we have "forums" or whatever, informal lectures and workshops (while the organizers may not take notes, surely the attendees do), and socializing/networking.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Is it really be that surprising if powerful people get together like this?
of course not, but i think its interesting to discuss this outside of alex jones style right-wing conspiracy theories. if you even mention the group you can be lumped in with the david icke types and all that jazz. wonder what other leftists think about it

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Just like all the other ruling class parties I never seem to get invited to.

[ed miliband]

of course not, but i think its interesting to discuss this outside of alex jones style right-wing conspiracy theories. if you even mention the group you can be lumped in with the david icke types and all that jazz. wonder what other leftists think about it

well i think this sort of meeting is integral to conspiracy theory politics because it allows alex jones, etc. to argue that economic and social policy is co-ordinated at these secret gatherings of elites. capitalism (or corporatism, as i'm sure they call it) can be reduced to the self-interested manipulations of elites in secret groups (whether that be the masons, the bilderberg group, etc.)

[Sasha]

its a networking and lobbying event where world leaders cuddle up to big capital/arms manufacturers etc etc, any secret group led by our royal family is going to be banally capitalist, not exciting in a conspiracy kind of way..

[Goblin]

Fidel Castro on Bilderberg (from 2010):

http://rt.com/politics/castro-lashes-bilderberg-group/

[ed miliband]

Fidel Castro on Bilderberg (from 2010):

http://rt.com/politics/castro-lashes-bilderberg-group/

he's bitter he isn't in on it, despite being the leader of a capitalist state.

[KurtFF8]

he's bitter he isn't in on it, despite being the leader of a capitalist state.

Well you must mean a "secretly capitalist state," as in Cuba is considered by itself and most of the world to not be capitalist, so the capitalist character is concealed, but at least a small section of Leftists have revealed the truth.

Perhaps this is all part of the Bilderberg conspiracy in the first place!

Anyway, I feel that the Right hasn't harped on about this conspiracy as much in recent years, which is nice since the Left doesn't have to correct them nearly as much.

[ed miliband]

Well you must mean a "secretly capitalist state," as in Cuba is considered by itself and most of the world to not be capitalist, so the capitalist character is concealed, but at least a small section of Leftists have revealed the truth.


"most of the world" believe a great deal of things i'm sure you'd question, so i'm not quite sure it's a useful category for analysing the mode of production that exists in cuba. instead, we can look the existence of commodity production, wage labour, a market that is becoming increasingly "freer". if capitalism doesn't exist there, i don't like the look of "socialism", or whatever you consider cuba to be.

[RadioRaheem84]

Is it legal for a head of state to attend a function like this withou civil servants or the media present?

I know it's just a networking event where they discuss "boring policy" according to the BBC exposure report but a lot of it does indirectly influence policy.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

the BBC are full of shit. Absolute propaganda tool for the British ruling class (they are A PART of the ruling class). They spent about 3 hours on rolling footage for the queen's visit to the new BBC merger this morning, even though our government had just been implicated in this issue in America with spying on people's communications.

Anyway, I doubt its as informal as the BBC make it seem - consider that the chancellor as well as the shadow chancellor are both going. Whoever wins the election will probably have already been brought off by the end of this meeting by the corps.

I don't think its possible to think of getting such a high number of the elite together in such a small amount of time for them to merely just hang out and enjoy a few drinks (although I'm sure they will do that too) without some very serious plans for investment etc being made - don't forget that the govt is systematically selling off the NHS to the highest bidder, amongst other things. If it was so casual, why aren't the media allowed in and why no notes?

its like the bullingdon boys club on an international scale and the reason david cameron's going is coz these guys are his bosses. these people do run the world, we know that much

[RadioRaheem84]

Damn! Then Alex Jones was on to something. I always knew the tin foil hat NWO conspiracy theorists were on to something but in reality they try way too hard to sell us on the narrative that it's one big cabal instead of just the daily mechanisms of capitalism.

This type of shit happened all the time during the Gilded Age and I am sure it happened a lot during the Golden Age. It's only now with the advent of the internet and rapid access media that we have more information about this group and others like it.

I agree too that you cannot get all those people into one room and not have some sort of influence on public policy. Even if they discuss theory or economics or trends or debate policy, it doesn't matter, heads of state and business leaders are meeting to discuss matters that involve the public. A public official as large as David Cameron should not get away with going to a closed door meeting of elites.

Of course thanks to the NWO conspiracy crowd any mention of this will sure to get you sneers about being a David Ike fan.

[Rafiq]

Castro believes nwo bullshit? Just lost what little respect I had for the man.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't think you should dismiss everything the "NWO" crowd says. They're on to some stuff but just do not think of it as a structual thing that is pretty normal for capitalism. They think it's some distortion of true capitalism through cronyism by some secretive cabal.

It still holds water that these people do get together discuss things and influence each other in terms of policy and economics investment decisions. I know they don't pull out a power point presentation on how they want to depopulate the earth by 2020 or talk about creating a caste system of indentured servitude.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Damn! Then Alex Jones was on to something. I always knew the tin foil hat NWO conspiracy theorists were on to something but in reality they try way too hard to sell us on the narrative that it's one big cabal instead of just the daily mechanisms of capitalism.

This type of shit happened all the time during the Gilded Age and I am sure it happened a lot during the Golden Age. It's only now with the advent of the internet and rapid access media that we have more information about this group and others like it.

I agree too that you cannot get all those people into one room and not have some sort of influence on public policy. Even if they discuss theory or economics or trends or debate policy, it doesn't matter, heads of state and business leaders are meeting to discuss matters that involve the public. A public official as large as David Cameron should not get away with going to a closed door meeting of elites.

Of course thanks to the NWO conspiracy crowd any mention of this will sure to get you sneers about being a David Ike fan.
That's why I thought it'd be interesting to discuss - in fact, the only reason this has ended up in the media today is that David Cameron announced publicly that he was gonna go, based on his idea about having a more 'transparent' government. If someone would've tried to start a discussion with me about Bilderberg Group I'd have been reluctant but groups such as this do clearly play a role in international relations, business and internal politics. I'd say that a criticism of the group should be a part of our discourse especially given that they highlight how undemocratically the global elite actually operate.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

also, ordinary working people don't like the idea of rich people and politicians meeting up in secret and setting agendas etc and this is why people like Alex Jones are so popular, in this sense I think that we should analyse these groups in the context of anticapitalism rather than treating the notion of questioning these groups as conspiracy theories

[Arlekino]

the BBC are full of shit. Absolute propaganda tool for the British ruling class (they are A PART of the ruling class). They spent about 3 hours on rolling footage for the queen's visit to the new BBC merger this morning, even though our government had just been implicated in this issue in America with spying on people's communications.

Anyway, I doubt its as informal as the BBC make it seem - consider that the chancellor as well as the shadow chancellor are both going. Whoever wins the election will probably have already been brought off by the end of this meeting by the corps.

I don't think its possible to think of getting such a high number of the elite together in such a small amount of time for them to merely just hang out and enjoy a few drinks (although I'm sure they will do that too) without some very serious plans for investment etc being made - don't forget that the govt is systematically selling off the NHS to the highest bidder, amongst other things. If it was so casual, why aren't the media allowed in and why no notes?

its like the bullingdon boys club on an international scale and the reason david cameron's going is coz these guys are his bosses. these people do run the world, we know that much
Absolutely right BBC is loosing plot, rolling every single day paedophilia, raping, murders courts, sick of BBC news, I think people should mobilise against BBC 24.

[DDR]

Believe me or not, I have the time table of the meeting, here's for you:

09:00 Breakfast
10:00 World Domination Planning
13:00 Lunch
17:00 Neymar to Barça, good deal or not?
20:00 Dinner
23:00 Reptilian rave party

I'm sorry for the chit chat style of the post, but lobbist lobbying is hardly a conspiracy, nor even news.

[RebelDog]

'Can you invade Iran please David, we want to develop their oil fields.'

[adipocere]

I think it is unfortunate that even in here people have been conditioned to be made so uncomfortable about issues like the Bilderberg group that there is a disclaimer about tin-foil hats before it can even be started. If you see a group of people wearing white robes and pillowcases over their heads burning crosses in a field - you can call it a clan rally without needing to invoke the tinfoil hat clause.

And seriously, so what if Alex Jones is a bit unhinged? What precisely is normal about sociopaths like Tom Brokaw?

Furthermore, banishing a subject from discussion because David Icke brought it up early on completely ignores who he was before his mind apparently broke.

[RadioRaheem84]

I agree. Chomsky and Zinn were talking about the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations way before Alex Jones and the NWO crowd.

Now if you mention the two groups you will get looks as though you're a Bircher.

Maybe Alex Jones and Co. are agents of misinformation to discredit any criticism of these selective groups!! :laugh:

[ed miliband]

That's why I thought it'd be interesting to discuss - in fact, the only reason this has ended up in the media today is that David Cameron announced publicly that he was gonna go, based on his idea about having a more 'transparent' government. If someone would've tried to start a discussion with me about Bilderberg Group I'd have been reluctant but groups such as this do clearly play a role in international relations, business and internal politics. I'd say that a criticism of the group should be a part of our discourse especially given that they highlight how undemocratically the global elite actually operate.

nobody has denied they "play a role in international relations, business and internal politics", it's just a pretty banal observation. so too do private members clubs, of which there are perhaps hundreds across london alone. what's the end of critiquing their existence? a more transparent, democratic capitalism?


also, ordinary working people don't like the idea of rich people and politicians meeting up in secret and setting agendas etc and this is why people like Alex Jones are so popular, in this sense I think that we should analyse these groups in the context of anticapitalism rather than treating the notion of questioning these groups as conspiracy theories

"ordinary working people" -- such a cop-out. the vast majority of people are "ordinary working people" including, surprise, on this forum. sure, there are "ordinary working people" who are concerned about bilderberg, there are millions more who don't care about it at all.

[KurtFF8]

"most of the world" believe a great deal of things i'm sure you'd question, so i'm not quite sure it's a useful category for analysing the mode of production that exists in cuba. instead, we can look the existence of commodity production, wage labour, a market that is becoming increasingly "freer". if capitalism doesn't exist there, i don't like the look of "socialism", or whatever you consider cuba to be.

I could clarify: most of the Left. The whole theory of "state capitalism" is quite bankrupt, especially in the context of Cuba. This has been dealt with time and time again on this forum recently, perhaps even ad nauseum (for example most of what you're saying has been demonstrated time and time again to be insufficient to label Cuba a capitalist economy)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I could clarify: most of the Left. The whole theory of "state capitalism" is quite bankrupt, especially in the context of Cuba. This has been dealt with time and time again on this forum recently, perhaps even ad nauseum (for example most of what you're saying has been demonstrated time and time again to be insufficient to label Cuba a capitalist economy)

The same sections of the left that believe North Korea to be Socialist, Mugabe a freedom fighter and Ahmedinajad and Al-Assad worth defending? Yeah :rolleyes:


Seriously, i'm not sure how you're making these assertions about Cuba not being a capitalist economy. I'm not being facetious or even sectarian here - there's a great deal to admire about the likes of fidel, che guevara et al., and some of the things the Cuban revolution achieved, but to objectively analyse the Cuban economy of the past decade or two and label it anything other than capitalist is really to wear the thickest of rose-tinted glasses. Money exists there. Classes exist there. A state exists. Wage labour exists. Capitalist commodity production exists. Private sector production exist. Trade exists, both internally and with the capitalist world.

How you can ignore these and blindly proclaim Cuba 'Socialist, well - as Ed Miliband has said: if that's what Socialism is, I don't much like the sound of it.

[MarxArchist]

The only conspiracy theories I'm willing to slightly entertain are the JFK assassination and 9/11. The economic NWO ones are just "free market" people refusing to see that this is how capitalism operates. Capital accumulates and the resulting large capitalist uses the state to plan out a path for future profits around the globe. This is capitalism. Having that said showing that the state killed JFK or let 9/11 happen inst even that important or shouldnt be a focal point for any sort of revolutionary program since there are crimes capital commits on a daily basis that are out in the open. It's only when the bourgeoisie allegedly commits crimes against it's own citizens is when people get crazy about it. This is simply nationalism. If 9/11 was an inside job so what? US sanctions placed on Iraq killed over 500,000 children under the age of 10. The state department doesn't even dispute these numbers but these lives are less valuable because....? Because they're not wrapped in the American flag? In that sense fuck 9/11 as it pales in comparison to the crimes we can actually prove happened.

As far as Builderberg stuff these paleoconservatives who focus on such things refuse to acknowledge the actual true history of the capitalist system. They think it was a laissez faire free market wonderland but the evil state came in and messed everything up. The reality is that from day one the so called free market was planned and guided by capital and various states.

[The Vox Populi]

I know that in reality Its something bad, but it would be really fuckin funny if it was actually a yearly rave or something, with extacy and cocaine, stuff like that, and all the security is actually there to make sure none of them do something stupid.:laugh:

[Doflamingo]

Just like all the other ruling class parties I never seem to get invited to.

The music at this one sucks. The live band is just Mike Huckabee playing a bass guitar.

[KurtFF8]

The same sections of the left that believe North Korea to be Socialist, Mugabe a freedom fighter and Ahmedinajad and Al-Assad worth defending? Yeah :rolleyes:


Seriously, i'm not sure how you're making these assertions about Cuba not being a capitalist economy. I'm not being facetious or even sectarian here - there's a great deal to admire about the likes of fidel, che guevara et al., and some of the things the Cuban revolution achieved, but to objectively analyse the Cuban economy of the past decade or two and label it anything other than capitalist is really to wear the thickest of rose-tinted glasses. Money exists there. Classes exist there. A state exists. Wage labour exists. Capitalist commodity production exists. Private sector production exist. Trade exists, both internally and with the capitalist world.

How you can ignore these and blindly proclaim Cuba 'Socialist, well - as Ed Miliband has said: if that's what Socialism is, I don't much like the sound of it.

I'm not ignoring these things whatsoever. I've addressed these issues in the past 2-3 months time and time again. I'm not trying to just throw my hands up, I'm just tired of having the same conversation over and over. I don't want to keep copying and pasting previous posts by myself or keep referring to previous threads on the subject, but if you must I suggest checking out some fairly recent threads on Cuba I participated in: I elaborate my position more there.

And of course this is all part of a tangent that has little to do with the OP.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I'm not ignoring these things whatsoever. I've addressed these issues in the past 2-3 months time and time again. I'm not trying to just throw my hands up, I'm just tired of having the same conversation over and over. I don't want to keep copying and pasting previous posts by myself or keep referring to previous threads on the subject, but if you must I suggest checking out some fairly recent threads on Cuba I participated in: I elaborate my position more there.

The recent-ish thread on Cuba involved me and you in discussion, IIRC. The problem is that - and this isn't meant as a personal attack or ad hominem at all - that your position was pretty opaque at best. You haven't really addressed my quite reasonable criticisms (or those of others) regarding the modus operandi in Cuba.


And of course this is all part of a tangent that has little to do with the OP.

Yeah but Cuba is a far more fun topic than fucking Bilderberg, and probably one that has a lot more theoretical traction and more important implications for Socialists.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

nobody has denied they "play a role in international relations, business and internal politics", it's just a pretty banal observation. so too do private members clubs, of which there are perhaps hundreds across london alone. what's the end of critiquing their existence? a more transparent, democratic capitalism?



"ordinary working people" -- such a cop-out. the vast majority of people are "ordinary working people" including, surprise, on this forum. sure, there are "ordinary working people" who are concerned about bilderberg, there are millions more who don't care about it at all.

I didn't say that anyone had denied anything and I didn't say that anything about a more transparent, democratic capitalism - I really don't get what that's meant to imply and I'm hoping that you've just missed the point lol. All I've said is that we should take a look at groups like this outside of the context of conspiracy theory, especially when they meet up on British soil and plan the future of our NHS and the like. And when 1000s of people go and protest outside and end up listening to Alex Jones. If its so obvious that this group are tied in with capitalism, why are people listening to Alex Jones who is a total capitalist?

Loads of people I know went and protested at the meeting in Watford and ended up listening to Alex Jones, these were the ordinary working people I'm talking about, some of my old friends from school were there and they're very far detached from the left even though they obviously see problems in society. The problem is that the left is full of snooty types like you who are too busy turning what could be level-headed discussions into silly bickering lol!

My point is that us on 'the left' should've been there putting the Bilderberg group's position in society into an anti-capitalist context and talking to the people there who are otherwise listening to the likes of Alex Jones. It might be a 'banal observation' to enlightened lefties like you but what about the people who see an injustice in it and could do with sharing some of your 'wisdom'? A lot of people fall into the conspiracy theory circle and they might otherwise realize that they could organize and actually change society if they could see it in the context of anti-capitalism - this isn't actually 'second nature', most people don't just have a built-in instinct that they are the subservient products of a system of oppression (or maybe this is different for you lol). As for the idea that there are millions who don't care about the Bilderberg Group, there are also millions who don't give a shit about capitalism either. Take a walk down Oxford Street... Most people don't realize that they're being shafted, that's what we call false-consciousness. We have a duty of analyzing social, political and economic phenomena and putting them in the context of anti-capitalism.

Don't see how using the term 'ordinary working people' is a cop out either, what am I 'copping out' of?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I know that in reality Its something bad, but it would be really fuckin funny if it was actually a yearly rave or something, with extacy and cocaine, stuff like that, and all the security is actually there to make sure none of them do something stupid.:laugh:

I'd bet that there's a shit load of cocaine at these meetings just like there are at the hotels that Tories stay in after their conferences...

[Sky Hedgehogian Maestro]

They don't take notes and don't let journos in etc, nor do they release any statements. This is a collection of world leaders and prominent business-people (as we know). What do they do? Do they just have a laugh and drink or is David Cameron perhaps going along to sell off the NHS? Is there a Chinese representation amidst the paranoia in the west about China? Any ideas? We don't really know and I suppose this is what gets people paranoid. I don't think its about being a one-world government or anything but I imagine they try to set agendas for things like business deals, policies and even in relation to global conflicts.
I always figured they just get together, discuss things about the state of the world, figure how to influence a few of them and who to back, hope it works and the peons actually do what they need them to do, and drink a few. Far from these 'Illuminati' fears.

[RadioRaheem84]

I always figured they just get together, discuss things about the state of the world, figure how to influence a few of them and who to back, hope it works and the peons actually do what they need them to do, and drink a few. Far from these 'Illuminati' fears.

That's fucking bad enough. I never had these illusions about a nefarious cabal of snickering elitists getting together to plan out the elimination of one billion people to de-populate a crowded Earth. That's outlandish and I am sure Alex Jones has fucked all serious discussions about what goes on in there for decades to come.

BUT, the BBC tried desperately to claim that the meetings were just these "boring" theory and lecture talks about policy, business and economics.

They were playing off the fact that yes these meetings are quite technical. They discuss general stuff that anyone can access online and to the average viewer expecting a secret nefarious plot to induce abortion through tap water, what they get is a pretty "boring" serious discussion about East Asian trade.

The difference between this and some lecture at Wharton Business School though is that world leaders all get together, the most influential, no cameras, no public access, no journalists and no public inquiry. While they may not be discussing how to wage war on Iran the most deceptive way, they're still getting lectured on the best ways to handle trade or some influential talk on Mid East relations. Also, I am sure that some small time dealings are made here and there in between talks.

The NWO crowd overblows the extent of this groups meetings but the media underplays the notion

[KurtFF8]

The recent-ish thread on Cuba involved me and you in discussion, IIRC. The problem is that - and this isn't meant as a personal attack or ad hominem at all - that your position was pretty opaque at best. You haven't really addressed my quite reasonable criticisms (or those of others) regarding the modus operandi in Cuba.

Well I would love to continue that discussion elsewhere then, although I would obviously disagree as I have said before that those who claim that Cuba is capitalist have very little ground to stand on IMO. But as I said: I think this is best kept for another thread.




Yeah but Cuba is a far more fun topic than fucking Bilderberg, and probably one that has a lot more theoretical traction and more important implications for Socialists.

Indeed, although this isn't a thread about Cuba

[TheEmancipator]

A good conspiracy, but considering Ed Balls is a member, I doubt this is the elite. Maybe it's some ploy to make us believe they are buffoons.

One thing is for certain : Alex Jones is a NWO agent. He'd be dead if all his stuff was true. He's alive because his acting ensures nobody dares question the NWO conspiracy for fear of being associated with nuts like him.

[RadioRaheem84]

One thing is for certain : Alex Jones is a NWO agent. He'd be dead if all his stuff was true. He's alive because his acting ensures nobody dares question the NWO conspiracy for fear of being associated with nuts like him.


LOL. That is something I had thought about a little. Really I wouldn't be surprised if the guy turned out to be a misinformation agent under the payroll of the CIA to make any questioing of the system seem like a conspiracy laden tin foil hat argument.

If the illuminati were as real and dangerous as Jones would claim, wouldn't he be dead right now?

Meanwhile, in reality, intelligent people discovering real stuff about people in power are subject to COINTELPRO and Red Squads and wiretapping and spying.

[MarxSchmarx]

Awrighty, let's try to stay on topic. I don't want to have to move the "Alex Jones is really an NWO reptilian etc..." stuff to chit-chat.

[MarxArchist]

That's fucking bad enough. I never had these illusions about a nefarious cabal of snickering elitists getting together to plan out the elimination of one billion people to de-populate a crowded Earth. That's outlandish and I am sure Alex Jones has fucked all serious discussions about what goes on in there for decades to come.

BUT, the BBC tried desperately to claim that the meetings were just these "boring" theory and lecture talks about policy, business and economics.

They were playing off the fact that yes these meetings are quite technical. They discuss general stuff that anyone can access online and to the average viewer expecting a secret nefarious plot to induce abortion through tap water, what they get is a pretty "boring" serious discussion about East Asian trade.

The difference between this and some lecture at Wharton Business School though is that world leaders all get together, the most influential, no cameras, no public access, no journalists and no public inquiry. While they may not be discussing how to wage war on Iran the most deceptive way, they're still getting lectured on the best ways to handle trade or some influential talk on Mid East relations. Also, I am sure that some small time dealings are made here and there in between talks.

The NWO crowd overblows the extent of this groups meetings but the media underplays the notion

In Washington, with domestic policy, the deals are made behind closed doors then it just becomes a matter of forcing it down peoples throats. Take the new healtcare law for instance. Closed door meetings with the major healthcare corporations and next thing you know a bill is drafted and passed. No one liked it, not the right or much of the left but the media manipulated and the politicians did their thing. Free trade agreements same thing. When it comes to war no US population has ever voted to go to war that I'm aware of. Every last important policy matter is dictated by capital. You and the other poster are correct, Bilderburg meetings are just a part of that process, a part of the anti-democratic process where capital dictates policy and should be analyzed from an anti capitalist position with rational materialist analysis. The only thing you can really "prove" is it's a meeting with representatives of capital and the state. The focal point for us in situations like that should be to point out A. we don't have a democracy B. we have a global plutocracy C. (if talking with NWO conspiracy theorists) this "New World Order" is just capitalism going global and capitalism from day one has been planned with no separation of capital and the state. This is a systemic necessity.

The solution, the only one that will work, is the abolition of capital but the conspiracy theorists and free market people have built an entire ideology that singles out the state as the problem whilst completely ignoring the role capital plays. "Average everyday person" isn't concerned with Bilderburg but is more likely to be concerned with their immediate material conditions and why life is such a struggle. Exposing the conflict between labor and capital is time better spent as opposed to exposing the collusion between capital and the state but exposing the link between capital and the state and why it's necessary in order for capitalism to function helps explain why we don't have a democracy so it's not time completely wasted.

[MarxArchist]

LOL. That is something I had thought about a little. Really I wouldn't be surprised if the guy turned out to be a misinformation agent under the payroll of the CIA to make any questioing of the system seem like a conspiracy laden tin foil hat argument.

If the illuminati were as real and dangerous as Jones would claim, wouldn't he be dead right now?

Meanwhile, in reality, intelligent people discovering real stuff about people in power are subject to COINTELPRO and Red Squads and wiretapping and spying.
The CIA has been known to create/fund news outlets and radio stations. This is the thing with conspiracy theories, some of them are true. If I went around on the news saying the NSA records all of our phone calls/emails/internet posts before it was common knowledge, people would have called me a conspiracy theorist.

One thing capital fears is true democracy. Democracy in production, democracy in governance. Any democratic process that is a threat to capital:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Every last anti democratic shady and or otherwise illegal act the state and capital does is done to both protect the overall global capitalist system and ensure the continuation of profits. That's the bottom line. This cannot be an all inclusive open book democratic process. We all know this. Nor can it be a "free market" process. This is what paleoconservatives and free market advocates obfuscate with both their economic theories and conspiracy theories. They're against democracy of course for the same reasons but in order to hide the role capital plays they have to first blame the state for 'manufacturing' monopoly capital and then put forth free market theories that capitalism can exist without state intervention. These NWO conspiracy theories, in this sense, are a direct result of free market theory.

[RadioRaheem84]

Well of course they're the result of free market ideology. They think the true capitalist system has been corrupted, usually by the State apparatus in some way, whether its corporations being state creations or corporate welfare or this idiotic new term "corporatism", they firmly believe true capitalism is self correcting. They cannot fathom that capitalism is inherently flawed so they have to scapegoat the state and create a false dichotomy that seperates the two.