NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

[blake 3:17]

More paranoiac fun!

Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily
Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

• Read the court order in full here

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

The Guardian approached the National Security Agency, the White House and the Department of Justice for comment in advance of publication on Wednesday. All declined. The agencies were also offered the opportunity to raise specific security concerns regarding the publication of the court order.

The court order expressly bars Verizon from disclosing to the public either the existence of the FBI's request for its customers' records, or the court order itself.

"We decline comment," said Ed McFadden, a Washington-based Verizon spokesman.

The order, signed by Judge Roger Vinson, compels Verizon to produce to the NSA electronic copies of "all call detail records or 'telephony metadata' created by Verizon for communications between the United States and abroad" or "wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls".

The order directs Verizon to "continue production on an ongoing daily basis thereafter for the duration of this order". It specifies that the records to be produced include "session identifying information", such as "originating and terminating number", the duration of each call, telephone calling card numbers, trunk identifiers, International Mobile Subscriber Identity (IMSI) number, and "comprehensive communication routing information".

The information is classed as "metadata", or transactional information, rather than communications, and so does not require individual warrants to access. The document also specifies that such "metadata" is not limited to the aforementioned items. A 2005 court ruling judged that cell site location data – the nearest cell tower a phone was connected to – was also transactional data, and so could potentially fall under the scope of the order.

While the order itself does not include either the contents of messages or the personal information of the subscriber of any particular cell number, its collection would allow the NSA to build easily a comprehensive picture of who any individual contacted, how and when, and possibly from where, retrospectively.

It is not known whether Verizon is the only cell-phone provider to be targeted with such an order, although previous reporting has suggested the NSA has collected cell records from all major mobile networks. It is also unclear from the leaked document whether the three-month order was a one-off, or the latest in a series of similar orders.

Full story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order?guni=Network+front%3Anetwork-front+main-2+Special+trail%3ANetwork+front+-+special+trail%3APosition1

[Orange Juche]

Yeah, even though in the background of my mind I've always figured "well this obviously goes on", to have it out front is a real downer. Of course, I have a shitty flip phone that I don't use much and don't really carry with me - but it's the principle of what's going on.

It makes me wonder - do you think the NSA watches these boards? (IF SO, HAI GUYS!!!)

[Os Cangaceiros]

Wasn't the NSA also building some kind of super-facility in Nevada that was supposed to be able to intercept every single piece of electronic communication on planet Earth too? I guess it all depends on how good their filtering technology is, lol

[Leftsolidarity]

Ha. I've been careful about my phone stuff since sophomore year and people that I was weird. I have Verizon. Nice to know my efforts of being careful with what I do with it aren't solely because I'm a paranoid loon.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I just heard a report about this story on the radio. Apparently it's all legal, because it was approved via "secret order" by a "special court".

Good ol' Obama and his "government transparency".

[blake 3:17]

I always figure whatever is happening snoops are snooping and snitches are snitching. How the hell they deal with all of it is another story.

I knew I had a direct phone tap years back and I and others had some fun in that situation -- making a point of talk of talking about either very dull stuff or, as one person under a lot of scrutiny did, confessing totally crazy sexual adventures.

It can be helpful to read up on the history of spying and secret policing. Generally they're not all that bright or they're too bright. One of the things that has come to light with the opening of the Soviet archives is that Kim Philby's work was mostly for nothing -- the Soviets didn't trust him for good reason.

This data collection stuff has a bit more merit it to it, but it's not much more than sociology with a budget.

[RebelDog]

The greater the power, the greater its paranoia.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

...starting to regret the jokes I made in 2004 to my long distance bo of the time re killing W :crying: (:lol:)

[Orange Juche]

Know what's driving me nuts? All the Democrat/Obama supporting people I know who would have lost their SHIT if Romney did this are either playing it way down, or ignoring it completely.

[bcbm]

its not just phone calls either

nsa has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data)

[Futility Personified]

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you!

I'm not really surprised though. Monitoring dissent, especially when you're pissing people off all the time, is a good way of gauging how much you can get away with.

[Ele'ill]

I hope they have a collection of all the avatars I've used over the years because I've lost some that i really liked. Do you think there's a way to cal the NSA and demand that they give them back in a .rar file I mean they're probably nerds too and understand to some extent what that's like

[blake 3:17]

Feinstein and Chambliss make their defence: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/06/06/transcript-dianne-feinstein-saxby-chambliss-explain-defend-nsa-phone-records-program/

[MarxSchmarx]

So, what are we going to do about it?

[PC LOAD LETTER]

aw fuck

[Orange Juche]

So, what are we going to do about it?

We can go hardcore like MaoistRebelNews and "take to Facebook" to argue with random people!

[PC LOAD LETTER]

We can go hardcore like MaoistRebelNews and "take to Facebook" to argue with random people!
Naw I'll just drink more and act jaded you should try it sometime ...

[bcbm]

So, what are we going to do about it?

raise a feeble voice of discontent while our masters continually take more power and wealth for themselves and leave us all to fight and die in rubbish

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

UK implicated in getting data from Prism.


UK gathering secret intelligence via covert NSA operation

Exclusive: UK security agency GCHQ gaining information from world's biggest internet firms through US-run Prism programme



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Nick Hopkins (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/nickhopkins)
guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/), Friday 7 June 2013 14.27 BST

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/7/1370610656177/Documents-show-GCHQ-has-h-010.jpg Documents show GCHQ (above) has had access to the NSA's Prism programme since at least June 2010. Photograph: David Goddard/Getty Images

The UK's electronic eavesdropping and security agency, GCHQ, has been secretly gathering intelligence from the world's biggest internet (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/internet) companies through a covertly run operation set up by America's top spy agency, documents obtained by the Guardian reveal.
The documents show that GCHQ, based in Cheltenham, has had access to the system since at least June 2010, and generated 197 intelligence reports from it last year.
The US-run programme, called Prism, would appear to allow GCHQ to circumvent the formal legal process required to seek personal material such as emails, photos and videos from an internet company based outside the UK.
The use of Prism raises ethical and legal issues about such direct access to potentially millions of internet users, as well as questions about which British ministers knew of the programme.
In a statement to the Guardian, GCHQ, insisted it "takes its obligations under the law very seriously".
The details of GCHQ's use of Prism are set out in documents prepared for senior analysts working at America's National Security Agency, the biggest eavesdropping organisation in the world.
Dated April this year, the papers describe the remarkable scope of a previously undisclosed "snooping" operation which gave the NSA and the FBI easy access to the systems of nine of the world's biggest internet companies. The group includes Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo and Skype.
The documents, which appear in the form of a 41-page PowerPoint presentation, suggest the firms voluntarily agreed to co-operate with the Prism programme. Technology companies denied knowledge of Prism, with Google insisting it "does not have a back door for the government to access private user data". But the companies acknowledged that they complied with legal orders.
The existence of Prism, though, is not in doubt.
Thanks to changes to US surveillance law introduced under President George W Bush and renewed under Barack Obama in December 2012, Prism was established in December 2007 to provide in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information about foreigners overseas.
The law allows for the targeting of any customers of participating firms who live outside the US, or those Americans whose communications include people outside the US.
The documents make clear the NSA has been able to obtain unilaterally both stored communications as well as real-time collection of raw data for the last six years, without the knowledge of users, who would assume their correspondence was private.
The NSA describes Prism as "one of the most valuable, unique and productive accesses" of intelligence, and boasts the service has been made available to spy organisations from other countries, including GCHQ.
It says the British agency generated 197 intelligence reports from Prism in the year to May 2012 – marking a 137% increase in the number of reports generated from the year before. Intelligence reports from GCHQ are normally passed to MI5 and MI6.
The documents underline that "special programmes for GCHQ exist for focused Prism processing", suggesting the agency has been able to receive material from a bespoke part of the programme to suit British interests.
Unless GCHQ has stopped using Prism, the agency has accessed information from the programme for at least three years. It is not mentioned in the latest report from the Interception of Communications Commissioner Office, which scrutinises the way the UK's three security agencies use the laws covering the interception and retention of data.
Asked to comment on its use of Prism, GCHQ said it "takes its obligations under the law very seriously. Our work is carried out in accordance with a strict legal and policy framework which ensures that our activities are authorised, necessary and proportionate, and that there is rigorous oversight, including from the secretary of state, the interception and intelligence services commissioners and the intelligence and security committee".
The agency refused to be drawn on how long it had been using Prism, how many intelligence reports it had gleaned from it, or which ministers knew it was being used.
A GCHQ spokesperson added: "We do not comment on intelligence matters."
The existence and use of Prism reflects concern within the intelligence community about access it has to material held by internet service providers.
Many of the web giants are based in the US and are beyond the jurisdiction of British laws. Very often, the UK agencies have to go through a formal legal process to request information from service providers.
Because the UK has a mutual legal assistance treaty with America, GCHQ can make an application through the US department of justice, which will make the approach on its behalf.
Though the process is used extensively – almost 3,000 requests were made to Google alone last year – it is time consuming. Prism would appear to give GCHQ a chance to bypass the procedure.
In its statement about Prism, Google said it "cares deeply about the security of our users' data. We disclose user data to government in accordance with the law, and we review all such requests carefully. From time to time, people allege that we have created a government 'back door' into our systems, but Google does not have a back door for the government to access private user data".
Several senior tech executives insisted they had no knowledge of Prism or of any similar scheme. They said they would never have been involved in such a programme.
"If they are doing this, they are doing it without our knowledge," one said. An Apple spokesman said it had "never heard" of Prism.
In a statement confirming the existence of Prism, James Clapper, the director of national intelligence in the US, said: "Information collected under this programme is among the most important and valuable intelligence information we collect, and is used to protect our nation from a wide variety of threats."
A senior US administration official said: "The programme is subject to oversight by the foreign intelligence surveillance court, the executive branch, and Congress. It involves extensive procedures, specifically approved by the court, to ensure that only non-US persons outside the US are targeted, and that minimise the acquisition, retention and dissemination of incidentally acquired information about US persons."





http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/07/uk-gathering-secret-intelligence-nsa-prism

I'm paranoid about this personally. A few years ago, you would've been seen as a tin hat wearer for thinking this.

[Sasha]

no surprises there, but good that its leaking out, lets get the fuckers paranoid for a change...

[B5C]

The US government responds:



US gov't defends NSA surveillance, slams 'reprehensible' journalists

Summary: Director of National Intelligence James Clapper has defended secret data mining — and criticized media outlets for reporting it.

After media outlets published "top secret" court orders which allow the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) to vacuum up millions of Verizon customer details and mine data from top technology firms, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence has hit back, claiming the reports have "numerous inaccuracies" and everything is perfectly legal.


First obtained by The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order), the original report documented a court order which forced U.S. carrier Verizon to hand over call system data to the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) on an "ongoing, daily basis." This metadata includes the originating and recipient phone number, the IMEI unique phone identifier, the IMSI number used to identify calls on cellular networks, trunk identifiers, phone calling cards, and the time, date, and duration of the call.


The leaked document states that under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court, the FBI was granted the order on April 25, and it expires on July 19, granting the U.S. government the wealth of information acquired (http://www.zdnet.com/verizon-records-vacuumed-up-by-nsa-under-top-secret-patriot-act-order-7000016441/) during this period.


In response to allegations of ignoring citizen privacy and secret data mining, U.S. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper has released a statement (http://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/191-press-releases-2013/869-dni-statement-on-activities-authorized-under-section-702-of-fisa) stating that the U.S. government is authorized to collect communications data relating to Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.


Under FISA, Clapper says that Section 702, which is designed to gather data on non-U.S. persons residing outside of the United States, was "recently reauthorized by Congress after extensive hearings and debate." The defense chief says that the order "cannot be used to intentionally target any U.S. citizen, any other U.S. person, or anyone located within the United States."


However, the use of Section 702 is subject to oversight by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the Executive Branch, and Congress, which involves approved procedures to minimize the acquisition, retention and dissemination of incidentally acquired information about U.S. persons, Clapper says.


Following The Guardian's disclosure, The Washington Post released a presentation (http://www.zdnet.com/fbi-nsa-said-to-be-secretly-mining-data-from-nine-u-s-tech-giants-7000016499/) that alleged both the NSA and FBI have been secretly mining data from the servers of roughly nine technology firms. The presentation, intended only for senior analysts within the NSA's Signals Intelligence Directorate (http://www.nsa.gov/sigint/), says that data mining has occurred since 2007 under a program dubbed "PRISM."


Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple and PalTalk were all allegedly involved (http://www.zdnet.com/nsa-top-secret-spying-order-affects-millions-of-americans-faq-7000016489/). Dropbox was apparently due to be next on the slate. A number of the companies have contradicted the Post's report (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/security/382318/internet-giants-deny-granting-us-direct-access-to-servers), saying that they do not provide federal agencies "direct access" to servers containing customer data including audio, video, commentary, emails and connection logs.


The leaked presentation suggests that data extraction takes place in order to allow analysts to track an individual's movements and contacts.
The director comments that data collected under the program is "among the most important and valuable foreign intelligence information" federal agencies are able to collect, and is used to combat threats to national security. Considering the latter, Clapper believes that publishing such information is unacceptable, stating:

"The unauthorized disclosure of information about this important and entirely legal program is reprehensible and risks important protections for the security of Americans."
http://www.zdnet.com/us-govt-defends-nsa-surveillance-slams-reprehensible-journalists-7000016529/



Still annoys me today that Liberals are sill going to defend Obama over this! My liberal friend to me today:


Obama is not even close to "just about the same" as Bush. This kind of crap is what's making the Left a laughing stock, and I say that as a leftist myself. Time to grow up, kids.

[RadioRaheem84]

Are you fucking kidding me?! A liberal said that shit to you? That is the type of stuff that has me fuming and tells me that liberals in this country are nothing but a stone's throw away from being reactionary.

I mean how is this not as bas as Bush? It's actually worse.

This makes liberals the most establishment based people who care so much about legitimacy that anyone questioning Obama is turning the "left" into a laughing stock?

Fuck the Obama supporters and their reactionary defense of this program.

[B5C]

Are you fucking kidding me?! A liberal said that shit to you? That is the type of stuff that has me fuming and tells me that liberals in this country are nothing but a stone's throw away from being reactionary.

I mean how is this not as bas as Bush? It's actually worse.

This makes liberals the most establishment based people who care so much about legitimacy that anyone questioning Obama is turning the "left" into a laughing stock?

Fuck the Obama supporters and their reactionary defense of this program.


He is the same type of liberal who spent days in jails for protesting the Vietnam War and expansion of Nuclear Weapons too. He is an capitalist at heart (social democrat), but believes any opposition to Obama is bad for America because he is better than any Republican. The lesser of two evils argument.

[RadioRaheem84]

He is the same type of liberal who spent days in jails for protesting the Vietnam War and expansion of Nuclear Weapons too. He is an capitalist at heart (social democrat), but believes any opposition to Obama is bad for America because he is better than any Republican. The lesser of two evils argument.

And here is exhibit A as to why the lesser of two evils arguments always fails. I mean the Dems can get away with anything and liberals will support it because it would be worse under the GOP! :rolleyes:

[Q]

So, what are we going to do about it?

Understand, employ and propagandize about anonimizing technologies (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=726).

In the US there are some legal concerns (silly stuff like privacy being a constitutional right and such). It's much worse for us non-Americans.

[B5C]

Well Anon just responded by releasing classified documents:

http://gizmodo.com/anonymous-just-leaked-a-trove-of-nsa-documents-511854773

The Docs:
http://thedocs.hostzi.com/

(http://gizmodo.com/anonymous-just-leaked-a-trove-of-nsa-documents-511854773)

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Well Anon just responded by releasing classified documents:

http://gizmodo.com/anonymous-just-leaked-a-trove-of-nsa-documents-511854773

The Docs:
http://thedocs.hostzi.com/

(http://gizmodo.com/anonymous-just-leaked-a-trove-of-nsa-documents-511854773)
are these 'safe' to access? don't want the prism dudes catching me lol

[PC LOAD LETTER]

are these 'safe' to access? don't want the prism dudes catching me lol
Look at it via tor if you're worried

[blake 3:17]

They'd discover that I regularly call about 5 or 6 people that I'm either related to or work with or known for 20+ years. Very thrilling.

The anonymizer stuff is good -- I kinda wonder how worth deliberately messing with the meta-data would be.

Somebody posted this or a related article a while back. Pretty interesting: http://gawker.com/5879895/how-old-does-google-think-you-are

[RadioRaheem84]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/7/4407184/anonymous-fakes-nsa-document-leak


The hacktivist collective Anonymous is trying to pull back the curtain on the NSA's PRISM surveillance program, but they're having a little bit of trouble doing so. This morning, members of Anonymous purported to leak 13 documents concerning PRISM — the only problem? They're all unclassified, publicly available documents that with only one exception can be found with a cursory Google search.

[Slavic]

"hyperlink removed: post limit on links

From what I understand, most leaks tend to be internal so its no surprise that anonymous can usually only access public documents. We have a secret program on my air base and most if not all sensitive data is kept off the net and accessed via special "vaults", with the terminals in these "vaults" being link via a intranet type of system.

The government has numerous secret programs all of which are funded with taxpayer money that is never recorded on any public budget.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

are these 'safe' to access? don't want the prism dudes catching me lol

Sure hope you don't use any google services then

[Skyhilist]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/576669_615011275183670_101153135_n.jpg

[PC LOAD LETTER]

From what I understand, most leaks tend to be internal so its no surprise that anonymous can usually only access public documents. We have a secret program on my air base and most if not all sensitive data is kept off the net and accessed via special "vaults", with the terminals in these "vaults" being link via a intranet type of system.

The government has numerous secret programs all of which are funded with taxpayer money that is never recorded on any public budget.
Are the 'vaults' physically separated from your main internal network? If not, if there's a trusted system that links the internal network (internet connected) to the 'vault' networks, then all someone has to do is compromise a system in the main network, spend a few months mapping everything out and gathering info on everything, services run, versions, covering their tracks, etc, and then compromise the linked system, even if there's no direct access from the 'vault' networks to the internet.


Internet->Compromise a computer on the main network->Compromise the linked computer (most likely by accident, as in they probably wouldn't know it had access to another network until they compromised it)->Compromise the vault network

[Klaatu]

They will assimilate us... resistance is futile :crying:

[Slavic]

Are the 'vaults' physically separated from your main internal network? If not, if there's a trusted system that links the internal network (internet connected) to the 'vault' networks, then all someone has to do is compromise a system in the main network, spend a few months mapping everything out and gathering info on everything, services run, versions, covering their tracks, etc, and then compromise the linked system, even if there's no direct access from the 'vault' networks to the internet.


Internet->Compromise a computer on the main network->Compromise the linked computer (most likely by accident, as in they probably wouldn't know it had access to another network until they compromised it)->Compromise the vault network

These "vaults" are physically separated from the rest of the main network. I believe they have their own cable lines buried alongside the internal network as well that connect from building to building. We have multiple sites scattered across the base that I am aware of.

Interestingly, in a response to Ahmadinnerjacket, I have received emails from my section chief advising military personnel not to access these documents because they are deemed "classified". I've received these stupid emails before when the wikileaks and Bradley Manning incident hit the news.

[barbelo]

This is a really sad news to hear.

In my eyes what made America such a cozy and wealthy place was its freedom, how you were left by yourself to deal with your security, without interference, without the external and non-beneficial interests of the state.

[Decolonize The Left]

I'm surprised people are surprised and upset, at least here on this forum. I always assuming this was de facto government action. The US government has proved its allegiance and cooperation with the capitalist class (and by extension, large multinational corporations) time and time again. I have always assumed that nothing said over the phone, or sent over the internet, is safe, private, or secure.

[Krano]

5yB3n9fu-rM

[Dropdead]

Is this somehow surprising?

[RadioRaheem84]

Yes it is surprising because regardless of how much we read about this shit in leftist books and history lessons about COINTELPRO this shit was always in the back of our minds, but to see it be this extensive and this brazen and this pervasive is another things entirely.

We always knew there were Red Squads and law enforcement agencies were always monitoring left wing and right wing groups but this is straight out of some 1984 dystopian future! Yes it is that surprising.

[bricolage]

I can't get this to embed properly but this is Candidate Obama debates President Obama, would be funny if it wasn't so depressing/predictable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7BmdovYztH8#!

[piet11111]

All this will achieve them is 20/20 hindsight.

[Nakidana]

I'm surprised people are surprised and upset, at least here on this forum. I always assuming this was de facto government action. The US government has proved its allegiance and cooperation with the capitalist class (and by extension, large multinational corporations) time and time again. I have always assumed that nothing said over the phone, or sent over the internet, is safe, private, or secure.

Yep, same. Well, I guess you can be relatively secure on the internet if you're a bit tech savvy and have the patience to jump through all the hoops.

It's weird though, on the one hand everyone (and I do mean everyone, I mean the liberals on Reddit have been going on and on about it since the leak happened) is outraged, but on the other hand I've yet to see any protests. I doubt anything will come out of it.

[RadioRaheem84]

This will be buried in the press. Which is odd considering that the news made way more of a deal behind WMDs or other stuff the Bush Adminstration did.

I am starting to suspect that the media is "liberal" in the sense that a lot more journalists and managers at news beureaus are pro-Democrat and hardcore Obama supporters. I find it strange at just how silent the liberals are on this matter.

They really are hypocrites to the highest degree. They just don't mind when it's a democrat in office. Anything to not make the right wing look good is their logic because they're firmly rooted in the two party system.

[Vostok17]

No time for hand-wringing. No use to complain about phone snooping when we post so much online.

[Sky Hedgehogian Maestro]

Well, Mr. Obama, say goodbye to your those nanoscopic remains of your conservative support.
What with the IRS scandal and now this, the right must be having a field day! And conspiracy theorists are just going off the wall right now. "Antichrist" is pulling in 60,000,000 new Google searches already!

[RadioRaheem84]

The thing that sucks is that right wing and conspiracy nuts are the only anti-establishment outlet for people these days and along with religious zealots, they tend to be quite violent. So I could see a right wing anti-establishment movement with proto-fascist form in the US leanings because of this.

Racism and extreme right wing movements have seen a rise in growth. We're seeing similar effects of right wing nationalism and white supremicist growing because of the marginalization and political amputation of left wing dissent. To fill the void conspiracy theorists, militia groups, neo-Nazis, Tea Parties, Minutemen, religious fundies, and libertarian movement have taken over, especially on the net, I mean my god why are there so many lolbertarians online? Why is every Yahoo News comments section filled with rabid right wingers?