Bush won 2000, fair and square

[Sam Adams]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_wa...ecount_4-3.html (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_watch/jan-june01/recount_4-3.html)

More than three months after Democrat Al Gore conceded the hotly contested 2000 election, an independent hand recount of Florida's ballots released today says he would have lost anyway, even if officials would have allowed the hand count he requested.

[Ortega]

Spoken like a true brainwashed American.

[Intifada]

the year democracy came to an end (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Fitrakis_Voting-Machines.htm)

[Sam Adams]

look at these pitiful socialist wannabes ignoring the facts.

how lame.

[Ortega]

What facts?

[Intifada]

you probably havent even read my link yet have you?

[Sam Adams]

"http://www.dissidentvoice.org/"

unreliable source. Nuff said.

[Intifada]

spoken like a true cappie. no evidence. you just dismiss the source without reading it.

[Ortega]

You should've known, ihatebush, Sam Adams is too cool to read links.

... <_<

Your sources are as biased as ours, Sammy boy.

[Stalinator]

IF this had been a true Communist country, Bush would have had every Democrat executed. But I know you socialist Hitler supporters wouldn&#39;t have supported that. Only if Bush invaded Israel and put them in concentration camps.

[Ortega]

Stop the "Hitler was a Communist" argument. We&#39;ve already proved you wrong&#33;

[Sam Adams]

any idiot can make up some website. why, i could register something like www.socialismrules.org tommorow and start filling it with lies like "bush is really a jewish conspirator" or some other form of rediculous lefty crap..

pbs is a reputable, well known sorce.

quite a difference.

[Intifada]

IF this had been a true Communist country, Bush would have had every Democrat executed.

but its a true cappie country which is rounding up innocent leftists like sherman austin.

[Ortega]

In true Communism, there would be little, if any execution.

Definetly much less than there is here in the good old U &#036; of A.

[Stalinator]

Sherman Austin is undoubtedly enjoying his prison showers with the Aryan Brotherhood now.

[Sam Adams]

"sherman austin."

I dont know who that is, but im sure hes rightly in jail for doing something utterly stupid and lawless.

[Intifada]

"sherman austin."

I dont know who that is, but im sure hes rightly in jail for doing something utterly stupid and lawless.

thats because fox news and cnn dont tell you about bush&#39;s reppressive regime.

[Sam Adams]

No, cause foxnews and cnn report the facts.

Im sure you lefties loving making up stuff, and have to pick a new target of your hatred of authority, now that mumia is rotting in jail without any possibility of release.

[FatFreeMilk]

Oh my goodness how can you be so damn blind?

[Stalinator]

Originally posted by Sam [email protected] 9 2004, 08:22 PM
No, cause foxnews and cnn report the facts.
Correct.

[Valishin]

Hate to be the barrer of bad news, but the website she was checking was not directly linked to voting machines. The election laws do not allow it. Any numbers she was seeing on the news or from a website were speculation. Only when the numbers come in directly from the machines which happens after the polls close in that district. Then and only then can the actual numbers be pulled.

Also lets keep in mind that the guy who denounced the machines because of the ability to corrupt the data in no way shape or form in his claim took into account the numerious other procedures that occur during an election to ensure there is no tampering. When those requirements are factored in, the possibility of tampering becomes next to zero. Having a modem attached doesn&#39;t mean anything if there is no phone line going to it. Being able to alter informtion with physical access doesn&#39;t do a whole lot of good when physical access is not attainable.


Thank you for playing



In true Communism, there would be little, if any execution.
So what do you do with all the people that don&#39;t want to participate?



ok ok, I admit it. I lied.

I really do enjoy being the barrer of bad news.

[j.guevara]

even if Bush won Florida he lost the popular vote, the true vote of the people. Only 2 countries have an electoral college: USA and Italy And Italy is known for its wonderful governments

[el_profe]

This is funny, I love how the commies on this site hate Bush so much, but would pay just to be able to give dean or clinton a bj.
Democrats and Republicans are very very similar, I am talkin about the politicians, the way they run gov and their policies are very similar.


We Have One Party, Not Two, On Economics
by Michael J. Hurd, Ph.D.
published in Newsday on 2/5/02

In its second half, President George W. Bush&#39;s State of the Union speech adopted many ideas of the liberal Democratic Party, moving the supposedly procapitalist Republicans still further to the left: national service programs (using tax dollars, no less); prescription drug nationalization; increased government regulation of the private sector because of the Enron debacle, and a bottomless pit of spending on a failing socialized education system -- praising Sen. Ted Kennedy for his agreement with the president on this issue.

All of this is further evidence that America does not need a third-party movement; it needs a second-party movement. Only then will the preservation of freedom have a chance. Although Bush at times quite eloquently defended the right of America to defend itself against terrorism, he sadly undercut his eloquence by moving, domestically and economically, further to the left.



here is the link to the same site but it to a different article: http://www.drhurd.com/medialink/tapping-dean.html

[Valishin]

even if Bush won Florida he lost the popular vote, the true vote of the people. Only 2 countries have an electoral college: USA and Italy And Italy is known for its wonderful governments
Would you mind showing us the election laws for this popular election that Bush lost?

[Sam Adams]

Bush won a majority of the states.

nuff said.

[Stalinator]

Bush did win the popular vote. You have to remember that Hispanics don&#39;t count as people. Their votes shouldn&#39;t count.

[Valishin]

SA that isn&#39;t necessarly enough to win either.

The EC exists for the same reason that we have two houses of Congress. It is a balance of power between the people and the states.

The sooner people understand that the US is not a single entity the better off we all will be. And yes SA I am well aware you are already aware of that.

[SonofRage]

Grand Theft America (http://www.bushflash.com/gta.html)

[SonofRage]

The long-awaited and delayed media recount of the 2000 elections, conducted by the University of Chicago&#39;s National Opinion Research Center, was finally announced on Nov. 11. Anyone reading the newspapers and watching the media must have concluded that George W. Bush won after all, and anyone who disagrees is guilty of sour grapes.

The truth is the recount clearly establishes that Al Gore would have been president if the Supreme Court had allowed the recount.

http://www.chicagomediawatch.org/01_4_gore.shtml

[Sam Adams]

http://members.verizon.net/~vze3fs8i/air/whowon.html

bush won.

deal with it.

[Stalinator]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 08:56 PM


The long-awaited and delayed media recount of the 2000 elections, conducted by the University of Chicago&#39;s National Opinion Research Center, was finally announced on Nov. 11. Anyone reading the newspapers and watching the media must have concluded that George W. Bush won after all, and anyone who disagrees is guilty of sour grapes.

The truth is the recount clearly establishes that Al Gore would have been president if the Supreme Court had allowed the recount.

http://www.chicagomediawatch.org/01_4_gore.shtml
That&#39;s counting the overvotes, you stupid, stupid retard.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Assuming the PBS source is legitimate, and counted properly, Bush&#39;s margin is less than 2,000. Journalist Greg Palast reported that 94,000 registered voters were illegally removed from the voter rolls in Florida prior to the 2000 election. Considering voter turnout, and the demagraphics of the individuals disenfranchised, Gore was robbed of 70-75,000 votes by the illegal actions of Jeb Bush&#39;s administration. On top of this, Gore did win the popular vote nationwide, by a margin of 500,000. I am not a Gore democrat, but he did win the election. For this information and more, see the first chapter of Palast&#39;s book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy.

[Al Creed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 03:51 PM
Grand Theft America (http://www.bushflash.com/gta.html)
I was gonna cite that:P

If he did win, Sammy, explain Kathrine Harris&#39; work in Florida for Choicepoint?

[Pete]

This is funny, I love how the commies on this site hate Bush so much, but would pay just to be able to give dean or clinton a bj.
Democrats and Republicans are very very similar, I am talkin about the politicians, the way they run gov and their policies are very similar.

Nah I agree with you on this. They are similar. Democrats are shit too. There are some here that think they aren&#39;t or the Dems would be better, but it is the same ruling class and in the end it will be the same. Some people can&#39;t see the shit in front of their eyes, but thats not my fault.

I&#39;m glad I don&#39;t live in a thiny vieled one party state.

[Dirty Commie]

Assuming (though he didn&#39;t) bush had won the popular vote, it would further prove the point that the amerikan political spectrum is so narrow and so far to the right that democracy is pointless, Clinton murdered thousands, so has bush. Reagan wrecked the economy, George Washington was a slave owner, every amerikan president has been a wealthy, white Anglo-Saxon protestent (WASP for the dumb conservatives). If al Gore had been given the presidency (which he deserved more than bush), amerika would be in a similar condition right now.

[timbaly]

Originally posted by Sam [email protected] 9 2004, 03:44 PM
Bush won a majority of the states.

nuff said.
In my opinion Bush won the election fairly because the popular vote does not determine who wins the election. The electoral college which is filled with flaws and gives states with lower populations a larger voice in the election should be abolished. Whether or not Bush won the majority of the states is also meaningless, he won the states with the smaller populations who have less of a citizens per elector and therefore gives them more power in the electoral college than the larger populated states that Gore won.

I will list some unfair and some partially-undemocratic parts of the American Electoral System

The number of electors a state gets is based partially on the population, those who can not vote are counted and influence how many electors a state gets even though they have no influence in the elction at all.

Wyoming and Vermont have equal voice in the electoral college, 3 votes each. This is despite the fact that Vermont has a population of 608,827 and Wyoming only has a population of 493,782. (stats taken from 2000 census)

Every state gets two electors that represent their senate seats, the others represent their house of reps representatives. The house of reps reps are based on population to some extent and therefore are decent (but could be much better) as a way to judge how many electoral votes a state has. However the adding of 2 senators drastically changes things, it adds a 200% increase of electors to staes with 1 elector based on the house of reps representatives. However for those sates with more votes per elector the percent increase is smaller, since it&#39;s also going to get 2. Take New York as an example which will have 29 representatives if you add the two senators you get 31 electoral votes however the increase from 29 to 31 is only about 6.89% change while states like Vermont get a 200% increase from adding their senators. new Yorks population according to the 200 census is 18,976,457 divide that by their 31 electors and you get about 612,144 citizens per elector now Take Vermont which has a population of 608,827 divide it by its 3 electoral votes and you get about 202,942 citizens per elector, this shows NY citizens votes are outweighed by that of Vermonts, their individual votes are worth less than those of Vermont and other lowly populated sates.Because of this Bush won the elction, he one most of the smaller states that got a radical percentage increase with the additon of the senators.

[timbaly]

Originally posted by Dirty [email protected] 9 2004, 05:13 PM
Assuming (though he didn&#39;t) bush had won the popular vote, it would further prove the point that the amerikan political spectrum is so narrow and so far to the right that democracy is pointless, Clinton murdered thousands, so has bush. Reagan wrecked the economy, George Washington was a slave owner, every amerikan president has been a wealthy, white Anglo-Saxon protestent (WASP for the dumb conservatives). If al Gore had been given the presidency (which he deserved more than bush), amerika would be in a similar condition right now.
John F. Kennedy was actually a Catholic, he&#39;s the only non-protestant president the US has ever had.

[redstar2000]

Bush won 2000, fair and square

Indeed, he did. As I recall, the vote was 5-4.

Practically a landslide. :lol:

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Captain America]

"In true Communism, there would be little, if any execution."

But in real communism its quite normal to have 20-50 million.

[Stalinator]

Originally posted by Captain [email protected] 10 2004, 01:05 AM
"In true Communism, there would be little, if any execution."

But in real communism its quite normal to have 20-50 million.
Correct.

[canikickit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 08:51 PM
Grand Theft America (http://www.bushflash.com/gta.html)
That&#39;s really depressing.
I bought Greg Palast&#39;s book today, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy".

[Vinny Rafarino]

"Here&#39;s the place I was telling you about. Apartment 1A....It&#39;s real fucked up. Got one window facing a brick wall......It&#39;s a shame what they did to that dog."

[D&#39;Anconia]

Originally posted by Dirty [email protected] 9 2004, 10:13 PM
every American president has been a wealthy, white Anglo-Saxon protestent (WASP for the dumb conservatives).

Sorry, but Kennedy was Catholic.


Edit: Oops. . . maybe I should read the rest of the thread before posting a reply. :rolleyes:

[Hitman47]

Originally posted by Sam Ada[email protected] 9 2004, 08:22 PM
No, cause foxnews and cnn report the facts.


Sureeeee :rolleyes:


Fox and the war in Iraq

A year-long study by the University of Maryland&#39;s Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA)[7] reported that Americans who relied on the Fox News Channel for their coverage of the Iraq war were the most likely to believe misinformation about the war, whatever their political affiliation may be. Those mistaken facts, the study found, increased viewers&#39; support for the war.

The study found that people who watched Fox News were, in general, convinced of three untrue propositions which supported the Bush war in Iraq:

There is evidence of close pre-war ties between Al-Quaeda and Saddam Hussein (even President Bush admits there is no such evidence)
Troops have found evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq (the American weapons search team has not found any)
World opinion was in support of the war on Iraq (It was difficult to find any country other than Britain in favor, and even the British population was, in the majority, against the war.)






Surrreeee :rolleyes:

[Valishin]

Journalist Greg Palast reported that 94,000 registered voters were illegally removed from the voter rolls in Florida prior to the 2000 election.
No, they were legally removed and given notice of the removal so as to correct it ahead of time if said removal was not approprate. If they choose not too or did not update the mailing address as required by law then that is their own fault.


On top of this, Gore did win the popular vote nationwide, by a margin of 500,000.
There is no such election.


http://www.chicagomediawatch.org/01_4_gore.shtml
Interesting theory, yet they seem to be making assumptions without having counted the ballots. The ballots were counted by a media group though and that group found that counting all ballots using the same criteria for each that Bush extended his margin slightly. Also your link makes claims about how the scenario would play out that are not supported by the Constitution.


The electoral college which is filled with flaws and gives states with lower populations a larger voice in the election should be abolished.
Do you also think two houses of Congress should be abolished?


The number of electors a state gets is based partially on the population, those who can not vote are counted and influence how many electors a state gets even though they have no influence in the elction at all.
If the census were to occur every year that would be a valid point.

Timbaly you do understand don&#39;t you that the US is not a single entity? The states have different agendas and are a part of the union by choice. Without the great compromise there is no union. There would be no reason what so ever for the smaller states to stay in such a union or to have joined from the get go. Which is exactly what New York and Virgina were told by the other 11 colonies when this issue first came up. They were told in no uncertain terms that there would be no USA if there was not a balance of power between the will of the states and the will of the people. This is represented by the existance of two houses of congress and the electorial college. And the issue is just as much a reality today as it was in the 1776.


Indeed, he did. As I recall, the vote was 5-4.
So your saying the Supreme Court was wrong for doing its job?


World opinion was in support of the war on Iraq (It was difficult to find any country other than Britain in favor, and even the British population was, in the majority, against the war.)
Odd the coalition for gulf war 2 was larger than gulf war 1. France, Germany, and Russia do not the world make. Not that it really matters mind you.

[timbaly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 01:06 AM


The electoral college which is filled with flaws and gives states with lower populations a larger voice in the election should be abolished.
Do you also think two houses of Congress should be abolished?


The number of electors a state gets is based partially on the population, those who can not vote are counted and influence how many electors a state gets even though they have no influence in the elction at all.
If the census were to occur every year that would be a valid point.

Timbaly you do understand don&#39;t you that the US is not a single entity? The states have different agendas and are a part of the union by choice. Without the great compromise there is no union. There would be no reason what so ever for the smaller states to stay in such a union or to have joined from the get go. Which is exactly what New York and Virgina were told by the other 11 colonies when this issue first came up. They were told in no uncertain terms that there would be no USA if there was not a balance of power between the will of the states and the will of the people. This is represented by the existance of two houses of congress and the electorial college. And the issue is just as much a reality today as it was in the 1776.


World opinion was in support of the war on Iraq (It was difficult to find any country other than Britain in favor, and even the British population was, in the majority, against the war.)
Odd the coalition for gulf war 2 was larger than gulf war 1. France, Germany, and Russia do not the world make. Not that it really matters mind you.
I believe the Senate should be abolished because it gives smaller states more power than the larger sates. If one state has a population of 1,000,000 and another has a population of 500,000 why do they deserve an equal number of votes? The state with 500,000 deserves half as many than the one with 1,000,000. In no way is it fair that 612,144 New Yorkers and 202,942 citizens of Vermont have the same equal voice in electing the president, last time I checked 612,144 people are more than 202,942 and therfore deserve more power than the 202,942. The law should be one person one vote that way everyone is equal when it comes to voting. I know the laws were put there to defend small states against larger ones but the fact people in general no longer feel like they have a greater alleigence to the state than nation. When the constitution was written there were many more "stateists", people who felt alleigence to their own state before the nation. Since then things have changed a lot Americans feel more alleigence to the country as a whole than to an individual state, therefore the smaller states aren&#39;t threaten by the larger ones as they were in the past. The USA is a single entity in this day and age, the people feel united with each other because they are americans not because they are members of an individual state.

As for the census it occurs every ten years so I suppose it is valid to count those who are in between the ages of 10 - 18 becaue within the ten years they will be eligiable to vote. However on the other hand there will be many people who die within that time and the underage voters will take their place in a way. Since more people are bron than die in every ten years it would be wise to count the soon to be legal youth. But those under eight years old will absolutely have no voting power to influence the election and shouldn&#39;t count towards the electoral vote, infact it would be better if those who actually voted were the only ones that counted at all.

As for the Coalition of the Willing, it is true that much of the worlds government supported the US lead war in Iraq but the citizens of these paticular nations were mostly anti-war despite their governments siding with the pro-war coalition

[truthaddict11]

who really gives a shit if bush won "fairly" or didnt? do you really think Gore would have been a better alternative? Bush "won" because WALSTREET wanted him to. Some people need to get over the lie of "democracy" in capitalist nations. They will "steal" the elections every year because they own the country. "Elections" are useless in Capitalism.

[Sandino111]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 08:46 PM
Bush did win the popular vote. You have to remember that Hispanics don&#39;t count as people. Their votes shouldn&#39;t count.
You piece of white trash&#33;

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

lol, sometimes you just can&#39;t help but to laugh at them.

[Commie Girl]

:D If every person in the U&#036; were to watch an INDEPENDANT NEWS source, that is well respected for TRUE unbiased JOURNALISM, such as BBC or CBC, then you could have a valid argument with these ignorant people. It is simply amusing to the REST of the World (ROTW) how you people are led around by an un-elected President and forced to live in a culture of fear. I particularily enjoy Tom Ridge coming out and announcing the "terror threat" level&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;And the best is watching your country implode....you won&#39;t need any supposed "terrorists" to destroy your country, you are going to do it for yourself&#33; And I make sure I turn the news on every morning in anticipation of the next "attack" on the U&#036;. Wonder what it&#39;s like for the countries you have invaded? Just wait.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 12:06 AM

Journalist Greg Palast reported that 94,000 registered voters were illegally removed from the voter rolls in Florida prior to the 2000 election.
No, they were legally removed and given notice of the removal so as to correct it ahead of time if said removal was not approprate. If they choose not too or did not update the mailing address as required by law then that is their own fault.
There were a number of people disenfranchised by Jeb Bush&#39;s administration who were unaware of having their voting right removed until they got to the ballot box.

As to those who were given notice, they were told they would have to appeal to the governor himself, for clemency. This was illegal, and the courts told Jeb Bush he could not do this. He appeared to comply with the courts, and still demanded clemency hearings for the disenfranchised.

And really, how can you blame the voters for being stripped off of the voting rolls for something that was not their fault?