Secularism Atheism and communism....

[farooq]

Differentiate these three isms....

Secularism Atheism and communism....

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Differentiate these three isms....

Secularism Atheism and communism....

Secularism is the process of separating religious bodies from political bodies, Atheism is the lack of or rejection of belief in deities and the supernatural, & communism is an economic 'mode of production' in which exploitative classes, such as capitalists or the old aristocrats, no longer exist, and products are produced for needs, not for maximising surplus and profit ( what we have now).

Good enough for you?

[Taters]

Secularism: practicing seperation of religion and state; alternately, it simply means taking no interest in religious affairs.

Atheism: the lack of belief or rejection of deities.

Communism: I'll quote Engels here: "Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat." Alternately, a stateless, classless, moneyless society realized after capitalism.

[UnderTheSun]

Secularism - The limiting of religious influence on society
Atheism - Lack of belief in any God or Gods
Communism - The means of production in society organised on common ownership, from each according to their ability to each according to their need.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Communism: I'll quote Engels here: "Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat."

I don't mean to be picky, but "Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat" doesn't really explain anything.

[Taters]

I don't mean to be picky, but "Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat" doesn't really explain anything.

Of course you meant to be picky, you ass. :laugh:

Well, it is pretty general, but, then, this is a pretty general topic. But, the definition is useful enough to apply to any generation, because approaches must change to suit the new conditions.

[Freeloader]

These three things also, obviously overlap to some degree.

Some forms of communist theory i.e. Marxism is inherently atheistic and also secular regards the proletarian state. However some Marxists move away from secularism and towards religious suppression/eradication by force i.e. Stalinist.

[TheEmancipator]

Communism: I'll quote Engels here: "Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat."

Yes, that is Engels' definition, but the late Engels seem to think the dictatorship of the angelical proletariat is an end rather than a means to one. His definition of communism is flawed as it still incorporates the notion of class in what is a society where the idea of class does not even exist. The "liberation of the proletariat" comes at the time of Revolution (and dictatorship of the proletariat if you so wish it). That is not communism. Communism is a classless, stateless society where History has unfolded itself.

Any Marxist is de facto secular. He can not be Atheist, although Marx does give some solid arguments against the existence of God. You may believe in the existence of a God, but other philosophers such as Bakunin have already argued that even if God does exist, man must eliminate it from his thought process.

[Sea]

Yes, that is Engels' definition, but the late Engels seem to think the dictatorship of the angelical proletariat is an end rather than a means to one. His definition of communism is flawed as it still incorporates the notion of class in what is a society where the idea of class does not even exist.Such a notion of DOTP as the final goal is nowhere to be found in the definition Engels gave, nor in the entirety of the pamphlet that it came from. If he said that, it most certainly would be flawed.
The "liberation of the proletariat" comes at the time of Revolution (and dictatorship of the proletariat if you so wish it). That is not communism. Communism is a classless, stateless society where History has unfolded itself.This is not contradicted by Fred's definition.
He can not be AtheistThis is a typo, yes?
You may believe in the existence of a God, but other philosophers such as Bakunin have already argued that even if God does exist, man must eliminate it from his thought process.Bakunin? Idealism? Aww, shucks!

[helot]

other philosophers such as Bakunin have already argued that even if God does exist, man must eliminate it from his thought process.

I dont remember Bakunin mentioning that at all. I do, however, remember Bakunin turning Voltaire's claim upside down into even if there is a god it would be necessary to destroy it



Bakunin? Idealism? Aww, shucks!

Some evidence please especially considering Bakunin consistently attacked idealism.

[Petrol Bomb]

Secularism is the separation of religion from the management of society and education.

Atheism is the rejection of the belief of a deity or deities.

Communism is the common ownership of the means of production, resulting in a classless, stateless, and moneyless society.

[TheEmancipator]

Such a notion of DOTP as the final goal is nowhere to be found in the definition Engels gave, nor in the entirety of the pamphlet that it came from. If he said that, it most certainly would be flawed.

This is not contradicted by Fred's definition.

Fred's definition of communism still incorporates the notion of class. That is fundamentally flawed.


Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat.

Communism is not a system designed for any particular class. It is classless. For all we know a different class system could emerge due to material conditions and the proletariat could become defunct. The emergence of robotics and AI in the modern era could play a part in this.


This is a typo, yes?

Yes, I was thinking of a communist, not a Marxist here. Sorry. You can be a non-Atheist communist



Bakunin? Idealism? Aww, shucks!

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/Deal_With_It.jpg



I dont remember Bakunin mentioning that at all. I do, however, remember Bakunin turning Voltaire's claim upside down into even if there is a god it would be necessary to destroy it

That is what I meant. Is there really any difference between what I said and what you said? Particularly as Voltaire considered God as an important part of the thought process, as well as people like Descartes, etc.

[farooq]

wawooo000! i really appreciate that this forum is enough for me to understand all such matters.....thanks to all comrades.....concept has been cleared..... :grin: