IRAQI GUERILLAS HAVE UPPER HAND

[Guerilla22]

Despite their best efforts, the US military cannot seem to nulify the Iraqi insurgents, whose will to fight back seems to be getting stronger and stronger as time goes by. Supposedly Saddam was coordinating the attacks, and his capture was supposed to break the will of the opposition fighters, but the guerillas have only increased their attacks on the occupational forces.

The tatics being employed by the guerillas are classic "hit and run" as invented by the father of guerilla warfare, IRA leader, Michael Collins. These also have imployed the logic of Che Guevara by taking the fight to the country side.

In a press confrence held by American Viceroy, Paul Bremmer he bragged adimently to the press "WE GOT HIM!" I have news for you Mr. Bremmer, the Iraqi opposition has gotten about 350 of your men and the number will undoubately rise. The truth is the guerillas have the upper hand, the US forces have been and will continue to be unsuccesful in eliminating the opposition movement.

My only wish is that the killing will stop. As for the future of Iraq, Iraq needs a socialist government government, free of religious fundamentalist, who will do nothing more than try to install absolute clerical control, which is no different than a dictatorship.

[MysticArcher]

yes, no one has ever successfully fought a guerrilla army, ever

apparently no one in the US thought about this before they started

[Invader Zim]

I have no problem with the material in the artical, except the Michale Collins part. He didn't invent Hit and Run warfare. He also wasn't the "father of Guerrilla warfare", I would Imagine one of the Spanish Guerrilla leaders such as El Castrado, etc would be the "father of Guerrilla warfare."

Did you know that Guerrilla is actualy spanish for "little war". The French faught the British in the Big war, the convetional war, where as the spanish peasants (far more damagingly) faught the little war.

[James]

And the spanish army... well.. they were just crap
I think they changed sides as well, or something.

[Intifada]

the iraqis will hopefully humiliate the u$ as the vietnamese did.

[FistFullOfSteel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 05:43 PM
the iraqis will hopefully humiliate the u$ as the vietnamese did.
yep

its like a soccer game..they team who has the home ground,they have the best chance to win

[acg4_9]

the thing that guerrillas always win cause they fight for right for freedom for honor and for peace. we just prey that our brothers -the great iraqies- will hang on cause with all these troops and with all the world goverments against them and the silent of the world i don't know how can they continue but i know and i am sure that there death or arrest will not go like this cause there will always be freedom fighters that will continue the trip from peru columbia and cuba to palestine and south asia.
to all freedom fighters: you are the hope of a better future sorry we can't do anything to help you cause we aren't like you and if we were, the world won't be like this, so bless you all, you are mortals.

god bless our freedom fighters.
viva palestine, viva iraq.

[Guerilla22]

[QUOTE]I have no problem with this article, except for the Michael Collins part. Michael Collins didn't invent hit and rn warfare, nor was he the father of guerilla warfare.

Despite what you may think you know, Michael Collins did invent hit and run warfare. He started his movement in 1916, about 25 years before the Spanish Civil War. He didn't invent the term "Guerilla War," but it should be noted that the Spainards vastly studied writings by Collins and attempted to base their fighting styles around his writngs, Mao also studied the works on Collins quite considerably.

Don't try to argue the history of guerilla warfare with me.

[Ian]

Considering the Spanish Civil War wasn't the one in which Guerrilla warfare was invented it doesn't matter if Collins studied it 25 years before the start of that war... I think I will argue the history of guerrilla warfare with you considering you don't seem to get the diffence between the Spanish civil war and any other war Spain was involved in.

[Hawker]

If Iraq was to have a socialist government,it would be suicide,having a socialist government in the Middle East,it's a no no,because most countries in the Middle East are religiously fanatic and run by religious fundamentalist.Why do you think most countries in the Middle East hated Saddam,because they thought him unreligious,they didn't care what he did to his people,all they thought was he was unreligious,that's why most supported the US during Gulf War II.

[SDSJap]

as invented by the father of guerilla warfare, IRA leader, Michael Collins

lmao, little young to have invented a tactic that dates back beyond history dont you think?

and the gurillas have the upper hand? since when? we control their country, they have a very limited ammount of area in which they can attack us, the iraqi council is moving foward, and 350 = unbelievably small amount of dead Americans, it is war afterall

the vietnamese embarrased us? naye, we embarrased ourselves, if we wouldve fought vietnam like a war instead of an election we wouldve won in a few years and been gone in at least 20

guerillas always win because they fight for freedom? please, the people who are fighting the US want a hugely religious government or the return of saddam, which of those do you think is a synonym for freedom? and look at bosnia, zimbabwe, mogadishu etc guerillas only win if they have the support of the populous, and they only have small ammounts of that in the sunni triangle, the rest of iraq is firmly behind the US

[Soviet power supreme]

Could anyone give me a info how many Iraqi guerillas have been killed by US soldiers since 1st May, when the war was declared to be over.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 12:44 AM
[QUOTE]I have no problem with this article, except for the Michael Collins part. Michael Collins didn't invent hit and rn warfare, nor was he the father of guerilla warfare.

Despite what you may think you know, Michael Collins did invent hit and run warfare. He started his movement in 1916, about 25 years before the Spanish Civil War. He didn't invent the term "Guerilla War," but it should be noted that the Spainards vastly studied writings by Collins and attempted to base their fighting styles around his writngs, Mao also studied the works on Collins quite considerably.

Don't try to argue the history of guerilla warfare with me.
Who's talking about the Spanish civil war?

I'm talking about the peninsular war 1808-1814.

but it should be noted that the Spainards vastly studied writings by Collins and attempted to base their fighting styles around his writngs,

A little difficult considering the Spanish Guerilla War (little war) occured between the spanish peasantry and the occuping French forces 100 years before anyone had even heard of him.

Despite what you may think you know,

Well as you think that Michael Collins invented an age old tactic...

Don't try to argue the history of guerilla warfare with me.

Why not scared that your knowledge isn't as infalible as you thought? Sorry mate, but your about 125 years out.

[monkeydust]

Just a couple of points.

Guerilla war isn't anything new specifically 'invented' by anyone. there are records of Guerilla war for example in Africa during Roman times around AD24-34, it took the Romans ten years to deal with this kind of thing then.

Also someone said no-one has ever successfully won a guerilla fight. This isn't true, Britain have in Borneo and Malaysia successfully combated Guerilla forces and have methods to do so. Mind you, there's very little trouble around Basra.

I don't think this Guerilla conflict is anywhere near the scale of 'Nam but the same problem remains, that the U.S. simply don't realise that people don't necessarily want them in their country to 'help' them.

Personally I think the allies should remain there until the country, oly they need to really change their methods. I saw a documentary where an American commander (after saddams capture) said he's already shot 4 men he'd seen shooting Ak's in the air (in celebration) as a 'precautionary measure'.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 05:43 PM
the iraqis will hopefully humiliate the u$ as the vietnamese did.
That isn't saying very much, because the U.S. succeeded in most of its goals in that conflict.

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by LuZhiming+Jan 10 2004, 11:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LuZhiming @ Jan 10 2004, 11:45 PM)
[email protected] 9 2004, 05:43 PM
the iraqis will hopefully humiliate the u&#036; as the vietnamese did.
That isn&#39;t saying very much, because the U.S. succeeded in most of its goals in that conflict. [/b]
Please elaborate on this point.

Wasn&#39;t the conflict intended to be a quick defeat of the communist North and defeat of the comunists there?

Didn&#39;t it end up being a prolonged conflict in which America couldn&#39;t defeat the guerilla Vietcong, resorted to killing innocents, lost many men and eventually pulled out without winning?

The budget spent on the war was enough to build everyone in Vietnam a three bedroom house after all.

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 12:44 AM
Despite what you may think you know, Michael Collins did invent hit and run warfare. He started his movement in 1916
Wrong. He merely fought in the GPO and then spent time in Kilmainhem Gaol at her majesties pleasure.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 06:12 PM
Just a couple of points.

Guerilla war isn&#39;t anything new specifically &#39;invented&#39; by anyone. there are records of Guerilla war for example in Africa during Roman times around AD24-34, it took the Romans ten years to deal with this kind of thing then.

Also someone said no-one has ever successfully won a guerilla fight. This isn&#39;t true, Britain have in Borneo and Malaysia successfully combated Guerilla forces and have methods to do so. Mind you, there&#39;s very little trouble around Basra.

I don&#39;t think this Guerilla conflict is anywhere near the scale of &#39;Nam but the same problem remains, that the U.S. simply don&#39;t realise that people don&#39;t necessarily want them in their country to &#39;help&#39; them.

Personally I think the allies should remain there until the country, oly they need to really change their methods. I saw a documentary where an American commander (after saddams capture) said he&#39;s already shot 4 men he&#39;d seen shooting Ak&#39;s in the air (in celebration) as a &#39;precautionary measure&#39;.
Yeah but the term was first used to describe the Spanish fighters who harassed the French supply lines in the Peninsular war. They were famed for acts of extream cruelty, the nick name El Castrado (sp?), doesn&#39;t leave much to the imagination...

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 05:05 PM
as invented by the father of guerilla warfare, IRA leader, Michael Collins

lmao, little young to have invented a tactic that dates back beyond history dont you think?

and the gurillas have the upper hand? since when? we control their country, they have a very limited ammount of area in which they can attack us, the iraqi council is moving foward, and 350 = unbelievably small amount of dead Americans, it is war afterall

the vietnamese embarrased us? naye, we embarrased ourselves, if we wouldve fought vietnam like a war instead of an election we wouldve won in a few years and been gone in at least 20

guerillas always win because they fight for freedom? please, the people who are fighting the US want a hugely religious government or the return of saddam, which of those do you think is a synonym for freedom? and look at bosnia, zimbabwe, mogadishu etc guerillas only win if they have the support of the populous, and they only have small ammounts of that in the sunni triangle, the rest of iraq is firmly behind the US
I believe the number of dead Americans has now surpassed 500&#33; Let me ask you this question, does it appear that we are in control in Iraq? Do think that if we were killing off insurgents every day that the Department of Defense would not report it gleefully to the American public? The fct of the matter is, that the guerillas seem to be gaininng strenght everyday, while the US soldiers are left like sitting ducks, just hoping that their tour will expire before, they are blown apart by a roadside bomb, or RPG round. Sound like any situation we&#39;ve been in in the past?

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 05:36 PM

[QUOTE]I have no problem with this article, except for the Michael Collins part. Michael Collins didn&#39;t invent hit and rn warfare, nor was he the father of guerilla warfare.

Despite what you may think you know, Michael Collins did invent hit and run warfare. He started his movement in 1916, about 25 years before the Spanish Civil War. He didn&#39;t invent the term "Guerilla War," but it should be noted that the Spainards vastly studied writings by Collins and attempted to base their fighting styles around his writngs, Mao also studied the works on Collins quite considerably.

Don&#39;t try to argue the history of guerilla warfare with me.
Who&#39;s talking about the Spanish civil war?

I&#39;m talking about the peninsular war 1808-1814.

but it should be noted that the Spainards vastly studied writings by Collins and attempted to base their fighting styles around his writngs,

A little difficult considering the Spanish Guerilla War (little war) occured between the spanish peasantry and the occuping French forces 100 years before anyone had even heard of him.

Despite what you may think you know,

Well as you think that Michael Collins invented an age old tactic...

Don&#39;t try to argue the history of guerilla warfare with me.

Why not scared that your knowledge isn&#39;t as infalible as you thought? Sorry mate, but your about 125 years out.
Well if you want to make that argument, then your argument would be wrong also. These same tatics were used well before the Napeolanic Wars. I&#39;m talking about MODERN GUERILLA WARFARE HERE.

[Invader Zim]

Well out of 143,000 US troops stationed in Iraq only 599 cohilition troops have died since the beginning of the war, so I think your chatting a heap of shit. I also think that if you compaired the number of killed and wounded GI&#39;s to Iraqi civillians killed by "Guerillas" the figure would be tiny.

So please grow up.

[Intifada]

did you know that more u&#036; soldiers have died in the first nine or so months of this war than the number who died in the first 2 years of vietnam?

[honest intellectual]

Mick Collins can be considered the father of urban guerrilla warfare.

The Iraqi guerrillas are not getting the upper hand. They don&#39;t control any part of the country. They have no feasible chance of ousting the Americans. The idea that America is losing the war is just thoughtless anti-Americanism. Just because you don&#39;t like the American army, you try to claim that they&#39;re powerless. Have a look at the actual state of affairs - they&#39;re in control every square kilometre of land, every town, every city. The American army are the de facto rulers of Iraq

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 09:44 PM
Well out of 143,000 US troops stationed in Iraq only 599 cohilition troops have died since the beginning of the war, so I think your chatting a heap of shit. I also think that if you compaired the number of killed and wounded GI&#39;s to Iraqi civillians killed by "Guerillas" the figure would be tiny.

So please grow up.
Hey dumbass, I hate to break it to you, but that;s the whole US plan in Iraq to "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Civillian population." Do you think that so far they have suceeded? Let me answer that for you, since you don&#39;t seem to be up on your current events: NO&#33;

One of the main strategies of the Iraqi insuregents is to undermine the the effort by the US military to win over the civillians by making the civillians feel insecure. By the way, I think if you counted the number of civillian casualties, due to errant falling bombs, and mistakes made by jumpy US servicemen, who seem to just be shooting at any damn thing (like Iraqi police) then the number of civillians killed by the guerillas probaly is very minescule.

I really don&#39;t know why you keep posting stuff on here, you might as well admitt that you are a flag waving, neoliberal posing as a socialist in order to be hip. So please go back to flying your flag and preaching the rhetoric of the Bush administration, only please go some place where people aren&#39;t laughing at you.

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 12:24 PM
Considering the Spanish Civil War wasn&#39;t the one in which Guerrilla warfare was invented it doesn&#39;t matter if Collins studied it 25 years before the start of that war... I think I will argue the history of guerrilla warfare with you considering you don&#39;t seem to get the diffence between the Spanish civil war and any other war Spain was involved in.
Ok, ya gotta point there. Maybe it would be better to say that Michael Collins was the Father of modern guerilla warfare, or the father of modern urban guerilla warfare.

[Adamore]

i dont see y they dont make it a state it would be better for everyone

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 06:16 PM
did you know that more u&#036; soldiers have died in the first nine or so months of this war than the number who died in the first 2 years of vietnam?
The first two years were just a bombing and biological warfare program against South Vietnamese peasents, and the U.S. soldiers had support from the South Vietnamese government. It wasn&#39;t an actual occupation as the current one in Iraq. So that really doesn&#39;t say much.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Guerilla22+Jan 21 2004, 06:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Guerilla22 @ Jan 21 2004, 06:29 AM)
[email protected] 19 2004, 09:44 PM
Well out of 143,000 US troops stationed in Iraq only 599 cohilition troops have died since the beginning of the war, so I think your chatting a heap of shit. I also think that if you compaired the number of killed and wounded GI&#39;s to Iraqi civillians killed by "Guerillas" the figure would be tiny.

So please grow up.
Hey dumbass, I hate to break it to you, but that;s the whole US plan in Iraq to "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Civillian population." Do you think that so far they have suceeded? Let me answer that for you, since you don&#39;t seem to be up on your current events: NO&#33;

One of the main strategies of the Iraqi insuregents is to undermine the the effort by the US military to win over the civillians by making the civillians feel insecure. By the way, I think if you counted the number of civillian casualties, due to errant falling bombs, and mistakes made by jumpy US servicemen, who seem to just be shooting at any damn thing (like Iraqi police) then the number of civillians killed by the guerillas probaly is very minescule.

I really don&#39;t know why you keep posting stuff on here, you might as well admitt that you are a flag waving, neoliberal posing as a socialist in order to be hip. So please go back to flying your flag and preaching the rhetoric of the Bush administration, only please go some place where people aren&#39;t laughing at you. [/b]
Sorry but your a complete idiot practically everything you have said in this thread has been wrong. From the situation in Iraq to the History of guerrila warfare. You have been fucking destroyed by nearly everyone who has posted in this thread, so really you need to review who&#39;s the dumbass here.

I hate to break it to you, but that;s the whole US plan in Iraq to "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Civillian population."

Hate to break it to you but the US plan has been to secure the oil pipline, capture or Kill Saddam Hussein, and to install a new pro-US government. If you really belive all that "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Civillian population" bullshit then your more nieve than I had first thought.

One of the main strategies of the Iraqi insuregents is to undermine the the effort by the US military to win over the civillians by making the civillians feel insecure.

Yeah bombing them and rather than the US occupation forces appears to be quite effective, shame that lots of people have to die for it, but hey whatever, if they kill a few US troops it must be worth it right? :rolleyes:

By the way, I think if you counted the number of civillian casualties, due to errant falling bombs, and mistakes made by jumpy US servicemen, who seem to just be shooting at any damn thing (like Iraqi police) then the number of civillians killed by the guerillas probaly is very minescule.


You want to try siting some figures or am I going to have to put that statement down as bullshit rhetoric like the rest of your post?

I really don&#39;t know why you keep posting stuff on here,

Seeing you make an ass of your self has quite an appeal.

you might as well admitt that you are a flag waving,

Hmm I dont own a flag... except a little Isle of Man TT flag which I&#39;ve had for about 8 years. And the only time i&#39;ve ever waved it has been when a motorbike spead past at about 90 MPH. Sorry to shatter another one of your stupid misconseptions, but it had to be done.

neoliberal posing as a socialist in order to be hip.

LOL coming from a person from a "wannabe" guerilla who lives in Michigan, a person who appears to revel in the idea of dead US troops and bombed Iraq civillians, from some group of extreamists who&#39;s only real cause is wiping out America and the west in general, most of whome it is doubtful even come from Iraq, and those which do want to replace the leadership with a fascist dictator such as saddam or one very like him. Take a look in the mirror mate, and see your own idea of me staring back at you. Thats if you actually know what a neoliberal is, which at this point appears doubtful.

So please go back to flying your flag and preaching the rhetoric of the Bush administration,

Err mate i&#39;m not an american I dont give flying fuck about Bush, or his administaration, one bunch of assholes running america is very like all the others. In this case the one in charge cant put together a coherant sentance but from what i&#39;ve read thats nothing new...

only please go some place where people aren&#39;t laughing at you.

There is only one thing to say to you and that is: -

[Comrade Yars]

neoliberal posing as a socialist in order to be hip.

LOL coming from a person from a "wannabe" guerilla who lives in Michigan, a person who appears to revel in the idea of dead US troops and bombed Iraq civillians, from some group of extreamists who&#39;s only real cause is wiping out America and the west in general, most of whome it is doubtful even come from Iraq, and those which do want to replace the leadership with a fascist dictator such as saddam or one very like him. Take a look in the mirror mate, and see your own idea of me staring back at you. Thats if you actually know what a neoliberal is, which at this point appears doubtful.


Agreed.

[18tir]

Since the beginning of the war in March, over 500 Americans have been killed and thousands injured. Many have also committed suicide. These numbers may be small compared to other wars, but they will grow. There may be over 140,000 US soldiers in Iraq, but the Iraqi people will not be intimidated by this. They will fight hard, just like the Vietnamese did. Today, 5 more Americans were killed. The rate of US deaths could increase and soon we may be seeing the death toll climb over 1,000. If the Bush administration wants to prevent more American deaths, it should allow free elections to be held and pull their soldiers out of Iraq.

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by Enigma+Jan 24 2004, 04:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Enigma @ Jan 24 2004, 04:45 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 06:29 AM

[email protected] 19 2004, 09:44 PM
Well out of 143,000 US troops stationed in Iraq only 599 cohilition troops have died since the beginning of the war, so I think your chatting a heap of shit. I also think that if you compaired the number of killed and wounded GI&#39;s to Iraqi civillians killed by "Guerillas" the figure would be tiny.

So please grow up.
Hey dumbass, I hate to break it to you, but that;s the whole US plan in Iraq to "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Civillian population." Do you think that so far they have suceeded? Let me answer that for you, since you don&#39;t seem to be up on your current events: NO&#33;

One of the main strategies of the Iraqi insuregents is to undermine the the effort by the US military to win over the civillians by making the civillians feel insecure. By the way, I think if you counted the number of civillian casualties, due to errant falling bombs, and mistakes made by jumpy US servicemen, who seem to just be shooting at any damn thing (like Iraqi police) then the number of civillians killed by the guerillas probaly is very minescule.

I really don&#39;t know why you keep posting stuff on here, you might as well admitt that you are a flag waving, neoliberal posing as a socialist in order to be hip. So please go back to flying your flag and preaching the rhetoric of the Bush administration, only please go some place where people aren&#39;t laughing at you.
Sorry but your a complete idiot practically everything you have said in this thread has been wrong. From the situation in Iraq to the History of guerrila warfare. You have been fucking destroyed by nearly everyone who has posted in this thread, so really you need to review who&#39;s the dumbass here.

I hate to break it to you, but that;s the whole US plan in Iraq to "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Civillian population."

Hate to break it to you but the US plan has been to secure the oil pipline, capture or Kill Saddam Hussein, and to install a new pro-US government. If you really belive all that "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Civillian population" bullshit then your more nieve than I had first thought.

One of the main strategies of the Iraqi insuregents is to undermine the the effort by the US military to win over the civillians by making the civillians feel insecure.

Yeah bombing them and rather than the US occupation forces appears to be quite effective, shame that lots of people have to die for it, but hey whatever, if they kill a few US troops it must be worth it right? :rolleyes:

By the way, I think if you counted the number of civillian casualties, due to errant falling bombs, and mistakes made by jumpy US servicemen, who seem to just be shooting at any damn thing (like Iraqi police) then the number of civillians killed by the guerillas probaly is very minescule.


You want to try siting some figures or am I going to have to put that statement down as bullshit rhetoric like the rest of your post?

I really don&#39;t know why you keep posting stuff on here,

Seeing you make an ass of your self has quite an appeal.

you might as well admitt that you are a flag waving,

Hmm I dont own a flag... except a little Isle of Man TT flag which I&#39;ve had for about 8 years. And the only time i&#39;ve ever waved it has been when a motorbike spead past at about 90 MPH. Sorry to shatter another one of your stupid misconseptions, but it had to be done.

neoliberal posing as a socialist in order to be hip.

LOL coming from a person from a "wannabe" guerilla who lives in Michigan, a person who appears to revel in the idea of dead US troops and bombed Iraq civillians, from some group of extreamists who&#39;s only real cause is wiping out America and the west in general, most of whome it is doubtful even come from Iraq, and those which do want to replace the leadership with a fascist dictator such as saddam or one very like him. Take a look in the mirror mate, and see your own idea of me staring back at you. Thats if you actually know what a neoliberal is, which at this point appears doubtful.

So please go back to flying your flag and preaching the rhetoric of the Bush administration,

Err mate i&#39;m not an american I dont give flying fuck about Bush, or his administaration, one bunch of assholes running america is very like all the others. In this case the one in charge cant put together a coherant sentance but from what i&#39;ve read thats nothing new...

only please go some place where people aren&#39;t laughing at you.

There is only one thing to say to you and that is: - [/b]
:rolleyes: Okay, now I admitt that I pretty much got my ass handed to me over that whole history of guerilla warfare topic, however I would like to point out that it WAS NOT BY YOU&#33; You merely echoed what someone else had post, that doesn&#39;t hold much clout in my book. You are vastly mistaken if you believe that you are "destroying" me on the argument that the insurgents in Iraq have the upper hand.
If indeed it is true what you say, that you don&#39;t care for Bush, then why do you keep repeating the sentiment of the Bush administration over and over again? Case in point: "I think that if you count the number of civillians killed by the guerillas, then the number of US soldiers killed would look pretty minescule." Then you you get upset when I suggest that errant US bombs killed far more Iraqi civillians than the guerillas have, and claim that it&#39;s "rhetoric" and then you want to try to argue that this can&#39;t be backed up by statistics: that&#39;s an incredibaly pompous argument, considering that the only statistics avaible on this are those compiled by the US government.

If you want to base your argument on statistics provided by the US government, of course you would come to this conclusion, because the US government always submitts statistics that makes itself look good, no matter what the truth actually is.

As far as you being a "neo-liberal," you are definitely right, you are not even close to being a neo-liberal, because the views you keep expressing sound very familiar to those of the group that&#39;s responsible for this whole bull-shit war: THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES.

[Guerilla22]

[QUOTE=Comrade Yars,Jan 24 2004, 05:07 PM] [QUOTE]
neoliberal posing as a socialist in order to be hip.

LOL coming from a person from a "wannabe" guerilla who lives in Michigan, a person who appears to revel in the idea of dead US troops and bombed Iraq civillians, from some group of extreamists who&#39;s only real cause is wiping out America and the west in general, most of whome it is doubtful even come from Iraq, and those which do want to replace the leadership with a fascist dictator such as saddam or one very like him. Take a look in the mirror mate, and see your own idea of me staring back at you. Thats if you actually know what a neoliberal is, which at this point appears doubtful.
[/QUO
What&#39;s your point?

[communist_comrade]

hey comrades,

im only 12 so dont get angry if i mess up along the line here .

i think that america will win and that the only reason these americans are dying is because the "guerrillas" are hardcore...they&#39;d blow up and kill 50 american troops and think (while going up in flames) that they are doing a favour for god and their country and as for the american occupation ..i must admit that iraq needed change ..now i still think that the us could have used a different method but im still gladc they stepped in.

[Guerilla22]

Okay, to anyone you has read this post and may have come to the conclusion that I&#39;m advocating the killing of US servicemen I would just like to say that, contrary to what it may seem I DO NOT get any joy out of hearing that US soldiers died in Iraq, I also don&#39;t support the Iraqi guerillas, I was just suggesting that they are the ones in control.

In fact, I am always deeply saddened when I hear news that a US soldier, or Iraqi civillian has been killed. I shouldn&#39;t have put the laughing smilie face on my post, because the situation in Iraq is far from funny.

Despite my errant dislike for the Bush administration I hope that Iraq can be stabilized fairly soon, because the real losers in this wholee debacle are the innocent civillians of Iraq.

[Invader Zim]

Okay, now I admitt that I pretty much got my ass handed to me over that whole history of guerilla warfare topic, however I would like to point out that it WAS NOT BY YOU&#33; You merely echoed what someone else had post, that doesn&#39;t hold much clout in my book. You are vastly mistaken if you believe that you are "destroying" me on the argument that the insurgents in Iraq have the upper hand.
If indeed it is true what you say, that you don&#39;t care for Bush, then why do you keep repeating the sentiment of the Bush administration over and over again? Case in point: "I think that if you count the number of civillians killed by the guerillas, then the number of US soldiers killed would look pretty minescule." Then you you get upset when I suggest that errant US bombs killed far more Iraqi civillians than the guerillas have, and claim that it&#39;s "rhetoric" and then you want to try to argue that this can&#39;t be backed up by statistics: that&#39;s an incredibaly pompous argument, considering that the only statistics avaible on this are those compiled by the US government.

If you want to base your argument on statistics provided by the US government, of course you would come to this conclusion, because the US government always submitts statistics that makes itself look good, no matter what the truth actually is.

As far as you being a "neo-liberal," you are definitely right, you are not even close to being a neo-liberal, because the views you keep expressing sound very familiar to those of the group that&#39;s responsible for this whole bull-shit war: THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES.

Okay, now I admitt that I pretty much got my ass handed to me over that whole history of guerilla warfare topic, however I would like to point out that it WAS NOT BY YOU&#33;

No your right it was a joint effort, but I would like to point out that I echoed no one, you will find in the third thread of this post I was digging holes in your guerrilla warfare argument.

Enigma Wrote: - except the Michale Collins part. He didn&#39;t invent Hit and Run warfare. He also wasn&#39;t the "father of Guerrilla warfare", I would Imagine one of the Spanish Guerrilla leaders such as El Castrado, etc would be the "father of Guerrilla warfare."

Did you know that Guerrilla is actualy spanish for "little war". The French faught the British in the Big war, the convetional war, where as the spanish peasants (far more damagingly) faught the little war

You are vastly mistaken if you believe that you are "destroying" me on the argument that the insurgents in Iraq have the upper hand.

You really don’t know when to quit do you? Well fine that’s your problem, if you want to make an ass out of your self go ahead, believe what you like.

then why do you keep repeating the sentiment of the Bush administration over and over again?

because its clearly true, very, very tiny numbers of US troops are dead, killed in attacks, but many civilians are killed in the same attacks. For example when that Shi’a leader was car bombed he was killed along with dozens of other civilians. A fine example of actions these “guerrilla’s” are willing to make.

Then you you get upset when I suggest that errant US bombs killed far more Iraqi civillians than the guerillas have,

Like I said believe what you want because you’re the one who’s looking a complete moron, not me.


If you want to base your argument on statistics provided by the US government, of course you would come to this conclusion, because the US government always submitts statistics that makes itself look good, no matter what the truth actually is.

This is true, but its not just the US gov who are saying this, its only a few who aren’t. the BBC who have been largely anti war have even said this.

As far as you being a "neo-liberal," you are definitely right, you are not even close to being a neo-liberal, because the views you keep expressing sound very familiar to those of the group that&#39;s responsible for this whole bull-shit war: THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES.

LOL inconsistent as well as stupid, well try as I might to make you look a fool, I am only an amateur compared to your extensive skills, your asinine comments and inane babble make my attempts look feeble.

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 12:53 PM
Okay, now I admitt that I pretty much got my ass handed to me over that whole history of guerilla warfare topic, however I would like to point out that it WAS NOT BY YOU&#33; You merely echoed what someone else had post, that doesn&#39;t hold much clout in my book. You are vastly mistaken if you believe that you are "destroying" me on the argument that the insurgents in Iraq have the upper hand.
If indeed it is true what you say, that you don&#39;t care for Bush, then why do you keep repeating the sentiment of the Bush administration over and over again? Case in point: "I think that if you count the number of civillians killed by the guerillas, then the number of US soldiers killed would look pretty minescule." Then you you get upset when I suggest that errant US bombs killed far more Iraqi civillians than the guerillas have, and claim that it&#39;s "rhetoric" and then you want to try to argue that this can&#39;t be backed up by statistics: that&#39;s an incredibaly pompous argument, considering that the only statistics avaible on this are those compiled by the US government.

If you want to base your argument on statistics provided by the US government, of course you would come to this conclusion, because the US government always submitts statistics that makes itself look good, no matter what the truth actually is.

As far as you being a "neo-liberal," you are definitely right, you are not even close to being a neo-liberal, because the views you keep expressing sound very familiar to those of the group that&#39;s responsible for this whole bull-shit war: THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES.

Okay, now I admitt that I pretty much got my ass handed to me over that whole history of guerilla warfare topic, however I would like to point out that it WAS NOT BY YOU&#33;

No your right it was a joint effort, but I would like to point out that I echoed no one, you will find in the third thread of this post I was digging holes in your guerrilla warfare argument.

Enigma Wrote: - except the Michale Collins part. He didn&#39;t invent Hit and Run warfare. He also wasn&#39;t the "father of Guerrilla warfare", I would Imagine one of the Spanish Guerrilla leaders such as El Castrado, etc would be the "father of Guerrilla warfare."

Did you know that Guerrilla is actualy spanish for "little war". The French faught the British in the Big war, the convetional war, where as the spanish peasants (far more damagingly) faught the little war

You are vastly mistaken if you believe that you are "destroying" me on the argument that the insurgents in Iraq have the upper hand.

You really don’t know when to quit do you? Well fine that’s your problem, if you want to make an ass out of your self go ahead, believe what you like.

then why do you keep repeating the sentiment of the Bush administration over and over again?

because its clearly true, very, very tiny numbers of US troops are dead, killed in attacks, but many civilians are killed in the same attacks. For example when that Shi’a leader was car bombed he was killed along with dozens of other civilians. A fine example of actions these “guerrilla’s” are willing to make.

Then you you get upset when I suggest that errant US bombs killed far more Iraqi civillians than the guerillas have,

Like I said believe what you want because you’re the one who’s looking a complete moron, not me.


If you want to base your argument on statistics provided by the US government, of course you would come to this conclusion, because the US government always submitts statistics that makes itself look good, no matter what the truth actually is.

This is true, but its not just the US gov who are saying this, its only a few who aren’t. the BBC who have been largely anti war have even said this.

As far as you being a "neo-liberal," you are definitely right, you are not even close to being a neo-liberal, because the views you keep expressing sound very familiar to those of the group that&#39;s responsible for this whole bull-shit war: THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES.

LOL inconsistent as well as stupid, well try as I might to make you look a fool, I am only an amateur compared to your extensive skills, your asinine comments and inane babble make my attempts look feeble.
Okay you are right that was you, you had more knowledge on the subject than me, and you called me on it so I apologize. I also apologize for calling you things like neo-liberal and neo-con, in that I realize merely slinging names at someone is not amking a valid response to the actual issues on hand.
I would also like to point out that the BBC has about as much info on what&#39;s really going on in Iraq as any other citizen, since the BBC merely relies on statistics put out by the Birtish and US government like everyother mass media outlet.
True I can&#39;t confirm that these guerillas have killed more citizens than errant US bombs, however neither can you because you weren&#39;t there and you have no more knowledge on what has truly transpired in Iraq than anyone else. So think whatever you want, you knowledge on guerilla warfare may be deep, but when it comes to this war, you are merely voicing opinions, as is everyone else (including myself)

[Guerilla22]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 24 2004, 05:07 PM


neoliberal posing as a socialist in order to be hip.

LOL coming from a person from a "wannabe" guerilla who lives in Michigan, a person who appears to revel in the idea of dead US troops and bombed Iraq civillians, from some group of extreamists who&#39;s only real cause is wiping out America and the west in general, most of whome it is doubtful even come from Iraq, and those which do want to replace the leadership with a fascist dictator such as saddam or one very like him. Take a look in the mirror mate, and see your own idea of me staring back at you. Thats if you actually know what a neoliberal is, which at this point appears doubtful.


Agreed.
Okay that&#39;s funny you are calling me make because I don&#39;t practice guerilla warfare and I call myself guerilla22. But I suppose you practice communism everyday, when eat at Burger King and do your shopping att Wal-Mart, right comrade? To knock me is extremely hypocritcal don&#39;t you think?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 07:10 PM
Okay you are right that was you, you had more knowledge on the subject than me, and you called me on it so I apologize. I also apologize for calling you things like neo-liberal and neo-con, in that I realize merely slinging names at someone is not amking a valid response to the actual issues on hand.
I would also like to point out that the BBC has about as much info on what&#39;s really going on in Iraq as any other citizen, since the BBC merely relies on statistics put out by the Birtish and US government like everyother mass media outlet.
True I can&#39;t confirm that these guerillas have killed more citizens than errant US bombs, however neither can you because you weren&#39;t there and you have no more knowledge on what has truly transpired in Iraq than anyone else. So think whatever you want, you knowledge on guerilla warfare may be deep, but when it comes to this war, you are merely voicing opinions, as is everyone else (including myself)
Its cool, I&#39;m sorry for what I said too.

And yeah what you say about the BBC, etc is true.

So yeah I agree with you to disagree etc.

Enigma.

[communist_comrade]

stop bloody *****ing...you are both commies so instead of arguing argue with a bloody cappie