Are there any active Luxemburgist organizations or parties in America?

[d3crypt]

Also what is the general opinion on Luxemburgism on Revleft?

[svenne]

Luxemburgism as a reality pretty much haven't existed at all since the early 1920s or so. In the US today, i think SPUSA claims to have been influenced by her, but people here seems to dislike the party for being social democratic and reformist as heck. Another group influenced by her is the left communists, but i think (?) only ICC (plus a some people outside groups, but still identifying as left communist) exists in North America, and they're pretty small. If you told us what you like about Luxemburgism and Luxemburg, we propably could steer you to something that at least resembles what you're looking for. :) People on revleft has a divided opinion on her, as on pretty much everything else -- except maybe that rich people are to have their stuff taken away from them -- but i like her. She's not perfect and sometimes she's totally wrong, but she's a pretty good and clear writer, and some stuff could propably be used in discussions today.

[Blake's Baby]

Actually the ICC are almost non-existant in North America. There are other Left Communist groups that are probably bigger - but to my knowledge none of them is 'Luxemburgist' beyond the acceptance by pretty much all Left Comm groups that the era of national liberation struggles and the 'progressive bourgeoisie' is dead and gone. I'm pretty certain that only the ICC also holds a 'Luxemburgist' position on economics (the causes of the crisis).

[d3crypt]

Well are there any non marxist lenninist parties. I just want to find one that is left communist.

[d3crypt]

I mainly like that she rejects both marxism-lenninism and social democracy. I think that there needs to be workers councils not some soviet style planned economy.

[The Idler]

3.2 Libertarian Marxist tendencies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism#Libertarian_Marxist_tendenci es)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/deleonism-list/

[Dear Leader]

I mainly like that she rejects both marxism-lenninism and social democracy. I think that there needs to be workers councils not some soviet style planned economy.
There was no such thing as Marxism-Leninism while Rosa Luxemburg lived.

However, to compare her critical support of the Bolsheviks to her outright opposition to social democracy/2nd internationalism/Kautskyism is just stupidity.

[d3crypt]

The Bolsheviks were lennist right?

[Sotionov]

I'm pretty certain that only the ICC also holds a 'Luxemburgist' position on economics (the causes of the crisis).
Could you explain shortly specific Luxemburgist positions on economics?

Or anyone else who knows, please share.

[Blake's Baby]

The short version is that Luxemburg's explanation of capitalist crisis is that eventually there are no more buyers for what capitalism produces. Thus we have a 'crisis of overproduction'. This is caused by the working class and capitalists being unable to buy the total social product. Luxemburg claimed that pre-capitalist parts of the economy (artisans and peasants essentially) were necessary as 'third buyers'. However, with the advent of global capitalism in the early 20th century (evidenced by the First World War, fought over attempts to re-divide the imperialist landscape), the 'third buyers' were increasingly unable to provide the necessary economic impetus for accumulation to continue. This would result in permanent and systemic crises.

[Geiseric]

The planned economy was supposed to of been decentralized, however the rushed way it was made due to the kulak crisis made the centralization necessary. The left opposition was saying that a planned economy from below was the only possible way to institute a non market economy while surrounded by capitalism. The left opposition also called for the restoration of the Soviets and workers councils, and was more or less murdered for it, so maybe you might want to check out trotsky.

[Per Levy]

The short version is that Luxemburg's explanation of capitalist crisis is that eventually there are no more buyers for what capitalism produces. Thus we have a 'crisis of overproduction'. This is caused by the working class and capitalists being unable to buy the total social product. Luxemburg claimed that pre-capitalist parts of the economy (artisans and peasants essentially) were necessary as 'third buyers'. However, with the advent of global capitalism in the early 20th century (evidenced by the First World War, fought over attempts to re-divide the imperialist landscape), the 'third buyers' were increasingly unable to provide the necessary economic impetus for accumulation to continue. This would result in permanent and systemic crises.

so are luxemburgs theories "right"? can one use them to understand todays crisis and capitalism in general better?

@Geiseric: um this thread is not about planed economy.

[Geiseric]

I'm addressing his third post.

[Per Levy]

fair enough.

[Blake's Baby]

so are luxemburgs theories "right"? can one use them to understand todays crisis and capitalism in general better?

...

question 1 - not entirely, I wouldn't say; it may be that 'third buyers' are necessary for accumulation to take place, but she underestimated the resiliance of the 'third buyer sector', because capital accumulation did take place over the 20th century, which shouldn't have happened if 3rd buyers were on the point of exhaustion 100 years ago; or it may be that she was completely wrong, and 3rd buyers are not necessary for accumulation to take place - as Mattick/Grossman etc believed.

question 2 - I think so. I think Luxemburg's explanation goes some way to explaining differences in the 20th century in both capitalism and the state (particularly state capitalist policies both in the Eastern and Western blocs) compared to the 19th century. Essentially what she's positing is that in a finite planet, capitalism will come up against the natural limits of the system, eventually there are no more new markets to exploit. This in turn implies that crises are no longer the cyclical business-crises that Marx analysed in the 1800s, but crisis actually becomes the mode of operation of the system. Which, apart from the 'post-war boom' from about 1950-1970, is a pretty reasonable interpretation of the last 100 years.

[Dear Leader]

The Bolsheviks were lennist right?One could argue there is/was no such thing as Leninism, as it was just his Marxist analysis of the Russian situation which molded him and his ideas.

The Bolsheviks were Marxist, and contained a few different factions:

- The main of the Bolsheviks led by Lenin and his ideas was obviously the main of the party, and not a faction.

- The Decists who dissented against Lenin for over centralization in the party, lack of/elimination of local party initiative, and rigid control from above within the industry, Party and local administration.

- The Workers' Opposition who argued for union control of industry, and I believe opposed the actions of Kronstadt and the Brest-Litovsk.

- The Workers' Group, which was against Brest-Litovsk, was dissenting against the suppression of proletarian members of the party, etc.

I'm certain I'm missing others, and that my descriptions are too vague and probably mistaken here and there. My point, however, is that you shouldn't think of the Bolsheviks as an amorphous blob of Lenin sheeple -- whether that's good or bad.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

I mainly like that she rejects both marxism-lenninism and social democracy. I think that there needs to be workers councils not some soviet style planned economy.
Sorry for belaboring the obvious, but there was no such thing as Leninism, not to mention Marxism-Leninism at the time of RL's death. I think she did not really represent a full-blown theoretical framework different from that of say, Lenin. She disagreed on a number of issues, absolutely, but I am fairly certain she would have been a leader in the early Comintern had she lived.

[d3crypt]

What i meant was she opposed the bolsheviks, which turned into leninism.

[Rooiakker]

I would join a Luxembourgist group, if one existed.

[d3crypt]

I would join a Luxembourgist group, if one existed.

Is anyone interested in making one?

[Blake's Baby]

What i meant was she opposed the bolsheviks, which turned into leninism.

What do you mean by 'she opposed the Bolsheviks'?



Luxemburgist group on the forum:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=7459

[blake 3:17]

The most Luxemburgist groups in the US I'd say would be News & Letters and Solidarity.

http://www.newsandletters.org/issues/2013/May-Jun/index.asp

http://www.solidarity-us.org/