I've Only Been Here 5 Minutes....

[Sora]

And already I am beyond words at the utter idiocy of you Cuban loving wackjobs.

The US went into Iraq, took out an opressive regime (one that's quite similar to the regime of your Soviet heroes), and are fixing the country. What do you people think would happen if the US all of a sudden backed out of Iraq? Do you think that it would be some rose garden where people joined hands, paid an arm and a leg in tax money, and danced around the graves of Lenin, Marx, and your beloved Che? There would be mass riots, looting, and God knows what else, but you ignorant Communists don't seem to realize that the US is not the only country that hates your backwards Communist ways.

Secondly, why do you stupid leftists automatically assume that right-wingers are Nazi facist Hitler worshippers? I don't call you "Sons of Stalin", although by your logic it appears as though I'm perfectly entitled to. I'm a right-wing thinker, not even an American, yet if I were to post any perfectly logical right-wing thought you would tear it up and tell me to run back to Hitler like you've done to so many of the other perfectly sensible conservatives.

Communism DOESN'T WORK, HAS NOT WORKED, and NEVER WILL WORK, and the sooner that you ignorant, class envy, civil-rights oppressing people realize that, the better off you'll be.

[Dirty Commie]

Considering how you have no knowledge of about half of amerikkkan history I'll be brief.

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA UNDER PRESIDENT REAGAN INSTALLED SADDAM HUSSEIN IN THE 1980'S AND GAVE HIM CHEMICAL WEAPONS TO FIGHT IRAN WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM, WE ARE IN IRAQ FOR OIL WHICH HE CEASED TO SELL TO US AFTER HE INVADED KUWAIT

and there are very few Stalinists here. Most of us are very libertarian and are active in civil rights movements.

Dumbass.

[Penguin Chariot Archer from Hell]

You sir(or madam), are a moron.

What if sweden decided to FIX the United States, as George Bush didn't win the election, we all know it. And what makes it our right to go into another country and "fix" it.

Why would there be mass riots? why would there be chaos if we left iraq? Becuase we left no stable government. WE TOOK AWAY A STABLE GOVERNMENT. We brought in the chaos. You act as though it was there all along.

Second, Communism has never been implemented, how can you possibly expect something that has never been tried to work?

I don't call you a nazi. I call you a wanker.

[Bolshevika]

Sora, my rich white Christian conservative friend, calm down.

Firstly, under Socialism taxes vary. Socialism isn't liberal capitalism fool, hence there is almost no taxation, under socialism the profit system is eliminated, hence the country runs on surplus generated by industry in the country.

I am hoping someone liberates me from Bush, but guess what? Tough luck! Saddam was a hero to many Iraqis, provided them with atleast some forms of education, electricity, rations, health care, order, etc. Bush is good at making empty promises and lies, but has kept none of them.

What will we have in Iraq now?

As one man said it: Kurdish seperatists, CIA agents, and religious foundamentalists make for some good civil war gumbo

[Sam Adams]

you know your ideology has failed when dozens of states try to implent it, none of them work, and then you pitifully whine "real communism has yet to be tried".

[Ortega]

How much do you actually know about Communism, Iraq, or Cuba?!?! Back up what you're saying with facts!!

[Ortega]

Originally posted by Sam [email protected] 8 2004, 06:49 PM
you know your ideology has failed when dozens of states try to implent it, none of them work, and then you pitifully whine "real communism has yet to be tried".
Real Communism truly has yet to be tried. Do you even understand what Communism is???

It has NEVER existed truly in a country. Never. If you understood what Communism was and what it meant you would know that.

[Hampton]

http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/threadpollution.png

[Sora]

"THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA UNDER PRESIDENT REAGAN INSTALLED SADDAM HUSSEIN IN THE 1980'S AND GAVE HIM CHEMICAL WEAPONS TO FIGHT IRAN WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM, WE ARE IN IRAQ FOR OIL WHICH HE CEASED TO SELL TO US AFTER HE INVADED KUWAIT"

And now they're fixing the mistake. And doing quite a good job at it too.

"and there are very few Stalinists here. Most of us are very libertarian and are active in civil rights movements."

And there are probably next to no Hitler neonazis either, but that doesn't stop you people from saying that he's every conservative's hero.

"What if sweden decided to FIX the United States, as George Bush didn't win the election, we all know it. And what makes it our right to go into another country and "fix" it. "

Well, as your friend Dirty Commie so eloquently pointed out, the US put in Saddam. Now they're taking him out, thus fixing the mistake they made. And Sweden can't fix the US, no one can.

"Second, Communism has never been implemented, how can you possibly expect something that has never been tried to work? "

Because it can never be implemented properly, and will never work.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by Dirty [email protected] 8 2004, 11:46 PM
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA UNDER PRESIDENT REAGAN INSTALLED SADDAM HUSSEIN IN THE 1980'S AND GAVE HIM CHEMICAL WEAPONS TO FIGHT IRAN WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM, WE ARE IN IRAQ FOR OIL WHICH HE CEASED TO SELL TO US AFTER HE INVADED KUWAIT
I was not for and probablly never will be for backing Saddam in the 80's but you must realize the situation in that time with Islamic extremist taking control of Iran. And I always here how many of the communist on these boards critize the U.S for not taking out Saddam when it had the chance, which I find hypocritical. If the U.S were to support the Shia uprising in Southern Iraq it would just create the same situation only vice versa, it would be the Sunnis being oppressed and not the Shit'tes. And then instead of the threads that say "Why didn't the U.S oust Saddam when it had the chance" it would be "Why did the U.S support Islamic Extremist, many of which at one point sided with the Ayatolla". So that argument is hypocritical, however I will not say that aid for Saddam was the best way to settle it at the time.

[BOZG]

and are fixing the country

The estimate of re-building Iraq before the war was put at about $2bn. It's now around $87bn. Strange fixing of the country???



There would be mass riots, looting, and God knows what else,

There's already been looting and mass rioting (during which US soldiers have gunned down hundreds of people).



Secondly, why do you stupid leftists automatically assume that right-wingers are Nazi facist Hitler worshippers?

That's a small group of reactionary idiots who come to this site.



Communism DOESN'T WORK, HAS NOT WORKED,

The only time communism has been tried was about 50,000 years ago, under primitive communism and guess what? It worked just fine. As for modern day communism, it has never been implemented or attempted at anywhere.

[Dirty Commie]

If you bothered to read anything by any socialist, (I have read much on several capitalist theories) than you would know that communism is the abscence of the state, there is no more real government, communism can't logicaly exist in any one country, it is only a world wide concept.

Try being a human being you heartless bastard.

[Bolshevika]

Originally posted by Sam [email protected] 8 2004, 11:49 PM
you know your ideology has failed when dozens of states try to implent it, none of them work, and then you pitifully whine "real communism has yet to be tried".
What you refer to is socialism, and it has been tried and succeeded. Soviet Union under Stalin, Cuba under Fidel, many countries of the Eastern bloc (especially Albania and Bulgaria), China under Mao (although there were some errors that must be criticized), etc etc all industrialized their countries to the fullest extent possible.

Simply because capitalism has 'survived' for all these years doesn't mean it is a 'success'. Feudalism survived for many years, you consider that success?

[Sora]

"Sora, my rich white Christian conservative friend, calm down."

Funny that you would say that. What if I was a poor Arab Muslim? Would that make my points any more or any less valid?

I'm middle-class, and I'm not Christian.

"Firstly, under Socialism taxes vary. Socialism isn't liberal capitalism fool, hence there is almost no taxation, under socialism the profit system is eliminated, hence the country runs on surplus generated by industry in the country. "

Canada, where I live, is borderline socialist, and the socialist party runs my province. We pay 52% in taxes total.

"I am hoping someone liberates me from Bush, but guess what? Tough luck! Saddam was a hero to many Iraqis, provided them with atleast some forms of education, electricity, rations, health care, order, etc. Bush is good at making empty promises and lies, but has kept none of them."

No terrorist attacks since Sept 11.

"What will we have in Iraq now?

As one man said it: Kurdish seperatists, CIA agents, and religious foundamentalists make for some good civil war gumbo "

Rome was not built in a day. Give the country a bit of time and things will be under control. You just don't want to give him any time because he's on a different side of the spectrum then you.

[Ortega]

Sora, what's your point?

Come up with a valid argument with sources, and then we'll listen to you.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

under control like the U$ has done with Afghanistan?

[Vinny Rafarino]

As it is plain to see, this individual simply wants to create an argument. (perhaps even a bit of drama) If you want to debate your ideology, fine. Starting your first post with cute little slags like "cuban loving whack jobs"
only invites us to want to smack you rather then debate.

Lighten up kiddo and you will be able to debate your warped archaic point of view. Continue being a ball breaker and your threads will hit the trash can, capish?

[Fidel Castro]

I think that people tend to forget why the USA went into Iraq in the first place. The world was told that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that could be launched within miniutes.

So, where are these mystery weapons? Why do the USA not march into Isreal, when we can be certain they DO have weapons of mass destruction?

The WMD used against Iran and the Kurds were good ol' made in the USA produce, funny how WMD was not such a problem for the states back then.

The USA is the most corrupt, decietful, arrogant and moronic nation on this earth. They can only be the world's policeman for so long.

[Penguin Chariot Archer from Hell]

And Sweden can't fix the US, no one can.

Nothing a good nuke can't fix :D


no terrorist attacks since Sept 11

Woah, this makes Bush such a great leader :rolleyes:

And there HAVE been terrorist attacks, just none to this scale, and none in the United States. The one that was attempted was a tremendous success for Al Quaida, so i don't think Bush's record with the terrorist attacks has been that good. I mean he's 0 for 1 at this point.

[Sam Adams]

"The WMD used against Iran and the Kurds were good ol' made in the USA produce"

actually, they were french and russian.

France and Russia supplied saddam with far more military material than we did.

You commies really should try using facts once and a while.

[Dirty Commie]

Time Magazine.

Do you have any documented source, (Fox news does not count as a real source)

Where arre the thirty thousand peoples bodies that he gassed?
The Kurds, several Iran war graves have been found already.

[Sora]

This thread is to make a point. You lash out against conservatives and get even more agressive when they try to fight back, yet you can't handle a thread lashing out at yourselves.

Lighten up kiddo and you will be able to debate your warped archaic point of view. Continue being a ball breaker and your threads will hit the trash can, capish?

Yet this thread: http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...=ST&f=8&t=20758 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=20758)

is a completely valid set up for a debate. Nice to see your double standards there. Pretty typical Communist thinking when you want to get rid of someone who criticizes your beliefs.

[Fidel Castro]

France and Russia supplied saddam with far more military material than we did.

Lol, so the fact that some other nation's supplied Saddam with more weapons that you makes it all ok? A typical Yanqui way of looking at things, "so long as we don't give as much as some other nations we ain't doin nothing wrong"

So tell me, when Saddam used these Russian and French WMD against civilians where was your army that is supposed to protect freedom and justice?

Of course, when Kuwait was invaded your precious US army went right in to defend freedom and justice and more importaintly, OIL

[Vinny Rafarino]

I cannot resist....

[Sam Adams]

"Lol, so the fact that some other nation's supplied Saddam with more weapons that you makes it all ok?"

no, but it makes you quite a hypocrit.

[Sora]

Your signature quote says it all, RAF.

[Fidel Castro]

no, but it makes you quite a hypocrit.

Sorry, I am not French or Russian.

Also you appeared to have ignored the following I mentioned.


So tell me, when Saddam used these Russian and French WMD against civilians where was your army that is supposed to protect freedom and justice?

Of course, when Kuwait was invaded your precious US army went right in to defend freedom and justice and more importaintly, OIL

Have you nothing to say about this? :lol:

[Al Creed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 06:56 PM
Canada, where I live, is borderline socialist, and the socialist party runs my province. We pay 52% in taxes total.

HE SAID THE MAGIC C-WORD! TIME FOR ME TO JOIN IN!

Have you ever taken into consideration what the Right Wing has done to our Country?

Brian Mulrouney nearly DESTROYED us. Thanks to him and his Conservatives, we have the following to thank him for:

-A revitalized Seperatist movement in Quebec, leading to a NARROW decision by QUebec to stay in Canada

-National Debt. Crippling National Debt.

-The GST

-Obscene Federal Deficits

-Two failed constitutional accords

-Rampant patronage (giving plum jobs to people close to him)

and, my personal favourite*SARCASM*

-NAFTA&#33; A "Free" trade agreement where the US Government and Businesses exploit our natural resources, infests our country with Wal Marts and Krispy Kremes, all the while, Canada can&#39;t do jack shit about it, or are contractually unallowed to <_<

How about that there Mike Harris, eh? A man who, apparently, hates healthy, educated people, what with his MASSIVE cuts to healthcare and education, along with the Walkerton E-Coli Incident.

How about his replacement? Ernie Eves? A man who wanted to give taxcuts to aging, rich baby boomers, and outlaw the Teacher&#39;s Union of Ontario to strike to improve working conditions? And, his GREAT idea to deregulate hydro?

How about Ralph Klein, who hates the environment? (He opposes Kyoto)

52% Tax rate? So, you are so selfish, you wish not to support the province where you live?

[Sora]

I&#39;m more of a Martin/Liberal party supporter. Although the PC Party is a million times better than the NDP.

I live in Manitoba, Winnipeg to be exact. Now, if these people who get most of the tax money through welfare, actually deserved it, or if our healthcare system didn&#39;t require 6 hour waits for patients dying of heart complications JUST TO SEE A DOCTOR, I wouldn&#39;t mind as much.

The majority of the people on welfare do not deserve it. They are jobless, but don&#39;t really care as long as they can smoke up and stab everyone. Their 5 kids and government income also qualify them for Child Assistance, in which they get MORE of my money. Do they spend it on helping themselves get off of welfare and finding a job? Nope, it goes straight down the tubes at McDonalds and the Liquor Mart.

Recent story: An elderly lady was brought to the hospital complaining of chest pains. All the symptoms pointed to a possible heart attack, or at least to the buildup of one. The hospital was so packed that she waited for 6 hours, finally getting some attention when she went into cardiac arrest and died. And sadly, this hallway medicine is not an isolated incident. I waited for 9 hours in the hospital once for a simple X-ray on a broken wrist. Had to come back the next day for a cast. Happens quite frequently in good old Manitoba, run by the socialist NDP.

Ralph Klein has done more for the province of Alberta than any left-wing tax happy government can do in 500 years. Alberta could basically stand on its own in the world.

[Bolshevika]

Funny that you would say that. What if I was a poor Arab Muslim? Would that make my points any more or any less valid?

Depends. Personally, I hate Islam as much as Christianity (christianity a little more though). I do not care about race since I am of the &#39;white&#39; race as well, however, it is a trend amongst the rich in America to be white or Jewish white.

If you were poor your opinion would mean much more, because in my opinion, rich people do not deserve a voice in anything. They do not deserve basic human rights either unless they renounce their wealth and join the new dictator class, the proletarian masses. The bourgeois society must be destroyed and all remnants must join the workers side or else, this is what a revolution is.

So yes, I would care about your opinion much more if you were poor, because poor Republicans aren&#39;t very common (except maybe in the Bible Belt).


Canada, where I live, is borderline socialist, and the socialist party runs my province. We pay 52% in taxes total.

I seriously doubt any province in North America (Canada, USA, Mexico) is ran by Marxists. This group that runs your province is most likely made up of social democrats and liberal capitalists.


No terrorist attacks since Sept 11.

Firstly, the U.S. allowed this event to happen (probably supported it).

Even saying there have been no &#39;terrorist attacks&#39; (depending on your definition of terrorism) is not entirely true. There haven&#39;t been any &#39;terrorist attacks&#39; in the history of the United States (Islamic foundamentalism begun long before 2001) and any airline employee with a half a skull will not allow a person with dangerous objects on a plane. The United States has simply instated rules that other countries have instated years ago.


Rome was not built in a day. Give the country a bit of time and things will be under control. You just don&#39;t want to give him any time because he&#39;s on a different side of the spectrum then you.

Ahh yes, Rome, the empire building nation. Sounds familiar.

I may hate Bill Clinton, but you conservatives bashed Clinton to hell, even though the economy under him was one of the most prosperous in history of the U.S.

Bush has done nothing better than Clinton or any of the people before him. In fact, Bush has done the opposite, take over other nations, cut money from education and social programs, and turn a blind eye in regards to businesses like Enron who have left millions bankrupt.

[Sam Adams]

"rich people do not deserve a voice in anything."

So you think the dumbasses and the failures are better than the smart and sucsessful?

no wonder you commies cant make anything you do work.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by Dirty [email protected] 8 2004, 11:46 PM
Considering how you have no knowledge of about half of amerikkkan history I&#39;ll be brief.

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERIKA UNDER PRESIDENT REAGAN INSTALLED SADDAM HUSSEIN IN THE 1980&#39;S AND GAVE HIM CHEMICAL WEAPONS TO FIGHT IRAN WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM, WE ARE IN IRAQ FOR OIL WHICH HE CEASED TO SELL TO US AFTER HE INVADED KUWAIT

and there are very few Stalinists here. Most of us are very libertarian and are active in civil rights movements.

Dumbass.
Hussein came to power in 1979, before Reagan. And NO THEY DIDNT PUT HIM IN POWER, BUT THEY DID GAVE THEM MONEY TO FIGHT IRAN, which was a bad desicions because they where trying to get rid of IRAn&#39;s bad leader, through anohter bad dictator.

[CapnCrunch]

You middle class commie posers make me so fucking sick. Go get a job instead of ranting on a forum about the retard revolution.

[Sora]

If you were poor your opinion would mean much more, because in my opinion, rich people do not deserve a voice in anything. They do not deserve basic human rights either unless they renounce their wealth and join the new dictator class, the proletarian masses. The bourgeois society must be destroyed and all remnants must join the workers side or else, this is what a revolution is.

Shouldn&#39;t everyone get an opinion?

I seriously doubt any province in North America (Canada, USA, Mexico) is ran by Marxists. This group that runs your province is most likely made up of social democrats and liberal capitalists.

No, not Marxists. The NDP is far left wing though, what we might call socialist, although they are quite similar to social democrats.

Firstly, the U.S. allowed this event to happen (probably supported it).

Even saying there have been no &#39;terrorist attacks&#39; (depending on your definition of terrorism) is not entirely true. There haven&#39;t been any &#39;terrorist attacks&#39; in the history of the United States (Islamic foundamentalism begun long before 2001) and any airline employee with a half a skull will not allow a person with dangerous objects on a plane. The United States has simply instated rules that other countries have instated years ago.

I respect your opinion (and I&#39;m grateful that you aren&#39;t belittling my opinion, no matter how it is expressed, which was rather harsh I admit), but unless I see a respected, documented source to the contrary, I don&#39;t believe that the US allowed or supported the events of September 11 to happen.

The USS Cole was attacked prior to Sept.11, and the WTC was attacked in 1993 I believe it was.

Ahh yes, Rome, the empire building nation. Sounds familiar.

Bush has done nothing better than Clinton or any of the people before him. In fact, Bush has done the opposite, take over other nations, cut money from education and social programs, and turn a blind eye in regards to businesses like Enron who have left millions bankrupt.

My reference to Rome was that it takes time to build a nation up from basically nothing.

Who was president for Bosnia and Somalia?

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 01:40 AM
Firstly, the U.S. allowed this event to happen (probably supported it).

Even saying there have been no &#39;terrorist attacks&#39; (depending on your definition of terrorism) is not entirely true. There haven&#39;t been any &#39;terrorist attacks&#39; in the history of the United States (Islamic foundamentalism begun long before 2001) and any airline employee with a half a skull will not allow a person with dangerous objects on a plane. The United States has simply instated rules that other countries have instated years ago.

LOL. they supported it, and knew about it?? lol. Maybe they had suspicions that this could happen, but they didnt know. LOL

hey Bolshevika, what country do you live in? are you gion into 7th or 8th grade this year??? lol.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Here&#39;s a proposal; you nice white boys go off and and enjoy life in Newly Liberated Iraq eh?

Don&#39;t wanna go? Is it cos the nasty freedom fighters will whoop your pasty white ass?

[Sora]

Y&#39;know, I&#39;ll respond despite your race comment (it shouldn&#39;t matter what race someone is for their political beliefs). Seeing as though the US doesn&#39;t want any people from countries that didn&#39;t fight in Iraq, I&#39;m all out of luck.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 08:48 PM
You middle class commie posers make me so fucking sick. Go get a job instead of ranting on a forum about the retard revolution.
This is the kind of post that suggests that proletarian revolution may be a fairly bloody affair, no matter how much I might personally wish otherwise.

What do you do with a total piece of shit like this guy except...blow him away?

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 02:01 AM
Y&#39;know, I&#39;ll respond despite your race comment (it shouldn&#39;t matter what race someone is for their political beliefs). Seeing as though the US doesn&#39;t want any people from countries that didn&#39;t fight in Iraq, I&#39;m all out of luck.
Waaaaaah&#33;

http://mitya.pp.ru/anato/bush_baby.jpg

[Sora]

Real smart, you sure showed me.

[lucid]

This site is more fun than the Sunday Comics :D

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by Sam [email protected] 8 2004, 04:49 PM
you know your ideology has failed when dozens of states try to implent it, none of them work, and then you pitifully whine "real communism has yet to be tried".
Yah I never hear neo-cons whine that "True Capitalism without Government Intervention has yet to happen."

In fact they use that defense to explain away all of America&#39;s current economic problems.

"If the government hadn&#39;t created a minumum wage. there wouldn&#39;t be so much unemployment" and so on and so forth.

[EneME]

Sora you remind me of Cubans in Florida....."oh wah my free health care isn&#39;t fast enuf." "wah my diamond shoes are too tight" I live IN America the richest and according to Righties like you, the "most free" then why is it that I&#39;ve never had health care in my life until I was at the University? My family has NEVER been on welfare, and we work slave wages to make ends meet but when my mother broke her knee walking to the bus stop on a rainy day to her dishwashing job where do you think we were? Up to our ass in bills from doctors, paramedics, ambulence, the ER, physical therapist, surgeons, and not to mention she wore a cast for many many months without working. And yes we had to pay it ALL back eventhough we were fucking FLAT broke...and I don&#39;t mean no "oh my gawd I have to use coupons." I&#39;m talkin NO cable, NO cars, going to a food bank for food....gawd you righties think everyone&#39;s living the American dream. I&#39;ve even lost hearing in my left ear cuz I couldn&#39;t afford an ENT specialist.....We Lefties didn&#39;t one day wake up and decide to be shit heads....revolutions are created cause of MISERY&#33;&#33; Live life in my or my families shoes and you&#39;ll pray to be back in Canada....

[Vinny Rafarino]

What do you do with a total piece of shit like this guy except...blow him away?



Now this is the kind of enthusiasm I like to see. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 08:18 AM
Sora you remind me of Cubans in Florida....."oh wah my free health care isn&#39;t fast enuf." "wah my diamond shoes are too tight" I live IN America the richest and according to Righties like you, the "most free" then why is it that I&#39;ve never had health care in my life until I was at the University? My family has NEVER been on welfare, and we work slave wages to make ends meet but when my mother broke her knee walking to the bus stop on a rainy day to her dishwashing job where do you think we were? Up to our ass in bills from doctors, paramedics, ambulence, the ER, physical therapist, surgeons, and not to mention she wore a cast for many many months without working. And yes we had to pay it ALL back eventhough we were fucking FLAT broke...and I don&#39;t mean no "oh my gawd I have to use coupons." I&#39;m talkin NO cable, NO cars, going to a food bank for food....gawd you righties think everyone&#39;s living the American dream. I&#39;ve even lost hearing in my left ear cuz I couldn&#39;t afford an ENT specialist.....We Lefties didn&#39;t one day wake up and decide to be shit heads....revolutions are created cause of MISERY&#33;&#33; Live life in my or my families shoes and you&#39;ll pray to be back in Canada....
Translation:

I didn&#39;t pay attention in school and partied instead of getting a good education. Now I have a shit job and can&#39;t support the family I shouldn&#39;t have. And it&#39;s everyones fault but my on&#33;

[LSD]

I didn&#39;t pay attention in school and partied instead of getting a good education. Now I have a shit job and can&#39;t support the family I shouldn&#39;t have. And it&#39;s everyones fault but my on&#33;


yes, because everyone has an equal chance, there&#39;s no such thing as inheritence or legacy or poverty..... you&#39;re right, me and George Bush we had an equal chance of being president, he just studied harder than I did.

[lucid]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 9 2004, 05:13 PM


I didn&#39;t pay attention in school and partied instead of getting a good education. Now I have a shit job and can&#39;t support the family I shouldn&#39;t have. And it&#39;s everyones fault but my on&#33;


yes, because everyone has an equal chance, there&#39;s no such thing as inheritence or legacy or poverty..... you&#39;re right, me and George Bush we had an equal chance of being president, he just studied harder than I did.
What a great way to go through life. Blaming all your problems on other people. Must be easy to have a high self esteem when nothing is ever your fault. I didn&#39;t get this, I didn&#39;t get that. Johnny has nicer toys than I do. Its not fair... Its not fair.... ITS NOT FAIR&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Grow up take responsability for your own actions. You control your life. Not rich Billy down the street. He didn&#39;t tell you to sleep in school. He didn&#39;t tell you to smoke dope instead of study for classes. Peoples shit life is a result of shit decisions. And people like you make it ok by giving them excuses.

Instead of whining about what you don&#39;t have you could be taking night classes using Government loans. Then you could get a real job with insurance and start the aquire the things you like. It&#39;s what most people do. You just stand at the sideline not even wanting to get in the game. You just want to tell all the players how the game should be played.

Absolutely pathetic. I wouldn&#39;t give your sorry ass a job mowing my lawn.

[LSD]

Wow.....just wow.....I&#39;m impressed, clearly you are a master at argument...I mean wow.....

here let me clarify for you, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MYSELF. There that wasn&#39;t hard. Why is everything a personal diatribe with you.



What a great way to go through life. Blaming all your problems on other people. Must be easy to have a high self esteem when nothing is ever your fault. I didn&#39;t get this, I didn&#39;t get that. Johnny has nicer toys than I do. Its not fair... Its not fair.... ITS NOT FAIR&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Grow up take responsability for your own actions. Youcontrol your life. Not rich Billy down the street. He didn&#39;t tell you to sleep in school. He didn&#39;t tell you to smoke dope instead of study for classes. Peoples shit life is a result of shit decisions. And people like you make it ok by giving them excuses.

Instead of whining about what you don&#39;t have you could be taking night classes using Government loans. Then you could get a real job with insurance and start the aquire the things you like. It&#39;s what most people do. You just stand at the sideline not even wanting to get in the game. You just want to tell all the players how the game should be played.

Amazing that even though you know nothing about me or my life, you manage to turn an ideological debate into a random personal attack.....very telling as to the validity of your arguments.

Look, answer a couple of questions straight out and maybe we can get somewhere:

1) do you accept that inheritence can make someone rich without having to work at all?
2) do you accept that many poor people work as hard as rich people, but are in less paying fields?
3) do you believe that people are more deserving in life due to natural abilities or talents they were born with?
4) do you believe that people should be rewarded for their work?
5) do you believe that people deserve a decent life regardless of their natural intelligence/abilities?

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

to all right wingers
You call us illogical, doing things that would never work, &#39;not normal&#39; and generally stupid. All i can say is that as pro-let wingers we post on a left wing messge board, why the fuck do you?

[lucid]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 9 2004, 06:42 PM
Wow.....just wow.....I&#39;m impressed, clearly you are a master at argument...I mean wow.....

here let me clarify for you, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MYSELF. There that wasn&#39;t hard. Why is everything a personal diatribe with you.



What a great way to go through life. Blaming all your problems on other people. Must be easy to have a high self esteem when nothing is ever your fault. I didn&#39;t get this, I didn&#39;t get that. Johnny has nicer toys than I do. Its not fair... Its not fair.... ITS NOT FAIR&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Grow up take responsability for your own actions. Youcontrol your life. Not rich Billy down the street. He didn&#39;t tell you to sleep in school. He didn&#39;t tell you to smoke dope instead of study for classes. Peoples shit life is a result of shit decisions. And people like you make it ok by giving them excuses.

Instead of whining about what you don&#39;t have you could be taking night classes using Government loans. Then you could get a real job with insurance and start the aquire the things you like. It&#39;s what most people do. You just stand at the sideline not even wanting to get in the game. You just want to tell all the players how the game should be played.

Amazing that even though you know nothing about me or my life, you manage to turn an ideological debate into a random personal attack.....very telling as to the validity of your arguments.

Look, answer a couple of questions straight out and maybe we can get somewhere:

1) do you accept that inheritence can make someone rich without having to work at all?
2) do you accept that many poor people work as hard as rich people, but are in less paying fields?
3) do you believe that people are more deserving in life due to natural abilities or talents they were born with?
4) do you believe that people should be rewarded for their work?
5) do you believe that people deserve a decent life regardless of their natural intelligence/abilities?
1) Yes I do. Good for them&#33; They should be able to enjoy the fruits of their ancestors labors.
2) They mwork as hard but they work in different ways. The poor person may work hard digging ditches but the rich person worked hard while he was school. He made wise decisions and he is reaping his reward. There is nothing easy about being an executive and your a fool if you think otherwise. There are exceptions but I think they are the minority.
3) Talents they were born with? We would still be in the stoneage if we only rewarded people for the talents they were born with. I think a person is a concious entity that is capable, for the most part, of using their mind. I think that people that use their minds in a positive and constructive way should be able to pursue their dreams. As long as they are not obstructing others from pursuing their dreams they should be left alone. And don&#39;t give me the "they are exploiting others to achieve there goals" crap. I have known to many people that had a rough life but came out on top. From woman that wer sexually abused by there relatives to people born in poverty. They didn&#39;t wallow in what they didn&#39;t have and worked at making their lives better.
4) Of course.
5) Yes, but your idea of decent and mine are probably way different.

[lucid]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 9 2004, 06:42 PM
Amazing that even though you know nothing about me or my life, you manage to turn an ideological debate into a random personal attack.....very telling as to the validity of your arguments.

I take it very personal when people are trying to take away the things I worked for. You think this is an attack? If the day ever comes that you try and force these poisonous ideas on me and my fellow capitalists citizens you will find out what an attack is. The US has defended itself from communism before and we will do it again.

[Hate Is Art]

You capitilists make my laugh, there are far more important things in life than money and wealth and status. You have no concept of a country functioning under socialism or communism, you have no idea of how ignorant you are towards the poorest people even in your own country. Captilism creates extreme wealth for a few and poverty for the people slaving away doing the hard work.

I read a book about an american who left US during the depression to live in the new USSR. He was inspired how the people of Russia had no need for material wealth and how there was a great sense of community between the workers at magneto gause,(sp?) he was so inspired by there drive and ambition to get the work done on time. He was awed by the way each worker looked out for the other worker and how they always stayed optimistic, if it failed it was because of them, if the blast furnace was completed it was theirs as much as any ones. Each barracks had a library and the one with the american in had over 200 books in it. This wouldnt ever happen America.

[LSD]

I take it very personal when people are trying to take away the things I worked for. You think this is an attack? If the day ever comes that you try and force these poisonous ideas on me and my fellow capitalists citizens you will find out what an attack is. The US has defended itself from communism before and we will do it again.


OK....fine....look, if you believe in your ideas so damn much, answer my questions and let&#39;s actually discuss them.

[lucid]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 9 2004, 07:01 PM
Capitilist make my laugh, and you know when the Revolution comes I will be laughing when your up against the firing squad.
Glad we can be so entertaining. You just keep on waiting for your revolution :rolleyes:

You&#39;ll end up being another 80 year old commie sitting your porch still waiting for the REVOLUTION.

[Hate Is Art]

When the revolution comes you&#39;ll be another one of 80 cappies up against the wall or revolutionary justice. I will be in a very long que of people wanting to kiss your sorry ass good bye.

And believe me the Revolution is coming.

[Soviet power supreme]

QUOTE (Bolshevika @ Jan 9 2004, 01:40 AM)
Firstly, the U.S. allowed this event to happen (probably supported it).

Even saying there have been no &#39;terrorist attacks&#39; (depending on your definition of terrorism) is not entirely true. There haven&#39;t been any &#39;terrorist attacks&#39; in the history of the United States (Islamic foundamentalism begun long before 2001) and any airline employee with a half a skull will not allow a person with dangerous objects on a plane. The United States has simply instated rules that other countries have instated years ago.


LOL. they supported it, and knew about it?? lol. Maybe they had suspicions that this could happen, but they didnt know. LOL

hey Bolshevika, what country do you live in? are you gion into 7th or 8th grade this year??? lol.

Well this has been discussed so mahy times here.There must been a conspiracy where Usa was involved.However the discussions have always stopped since nobody havent been willingly to discuss on this topic.

You read my points on this thread and try to convince me that arabs did it.
9-11 Conspiracy Theories (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=20669)

[Bianconero]

&#39;Sora&#39; ...


Communism DOESN&#39;T WORK, HAS NOT WORKED, and NEVER WILL WORK, and the sooner that you ignorant, class envy, civil-rights oppressing people realize that, the better off you&#39;ll be.

You break my heart. Tell you what, better do some research yourself instead of repeating what your conservative teacher told you yesterday.

I especially liked the way you marked &#39;DOESN&#39;T WORK&#39;, &#39;HAS NOT WORKED&#39;, and &#39;NEVER WILL WORK&#39;, by the way. That sure was impressing, silly creature.

Someone already mentioned it, you ignorant yankee-reactionaries come in here and babble about &#39;doesn&#39;t work&#39;, &#39;is so evil&#39; and &#39;will never work.&#39; What&#39;s the matter with you? What do you expect? You obviously are too stupid to even invent you own lies. That would at least be creative. Instead, you repeat the lies you were told to repeat.


You just keep on waiting for your revolution

When it comes, expect to face unpleasant times.

[Sam Adams]

"And believe me the Revolution is coming."

rofl. Bring it on, little commies. How many times have we crushed you allready?

[Bianconero]

See what I mean, comrades? The problem with him is that he&#39;s not creative enough. Worth a shot in the back of his head, at best.

Petty bourgeois ignorants.

[Soviet power supreme]

Communism DOESN&#39;T WORK, HAS NOT WORKED, and NEVER WILL WORK, and the sooner that you ignorant, class envy, civil-rights oppressing people realize that, the better off you&#39;ll be.

I have enlightened.I really believe in capitalism now.Thank you and praise the great companies.Halleluja Nike.

Do you actually believe that we haven&#39;t heard this before?If I were you I would rather go here Capitalism Forum (http://capitalismforum.com:/phpBB2/index.php) than posting this old bullshit.

[Sam Adams]

i always laugh when these second rate socialists whine about some revolution.

Do you actually think your uneducated and untrained rebels have a chanced against the massed firepower of the West?

[Intifada]

Do you actually think your uneducated and untrained rebels have a chanced against the massed firepower of the West?

educated cappies like you?&#33; your fucking brainwashed with american lies. your like a fucking zombie&#33;

[Bianconero]

Do you actually think your uneducated and untrained rebels have a chanced against the massed firepower of the West?

That parasitic system of racism, exploitation and starvation has brought forward many brave men and women, all true soldiers of the revolution, who will not complain, but who will be happy to die fighting, waving the glorious red flag.

[Goldfinger]

Originally posted by lucid+Jan 9 2004, 06:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lucid @ Jan 9 2004, 06:02 PM) Translation:

I didn&#39;t pay attention in school and partied instead of getting a good education. [/b]

[email protected] 9 2004, 08:18 AM
My family has NEVER been on welfare, and we work slave wages to make ends meet but when my mother broke her knee walking to the bus stop on a rainy day to her dishwashing job where do you think we were? Up to our ass in bills from doctors, paramedics, ambulence, the ER, physical therapist, surgeons, and not to mention she wore a cast for many many months without working. And yes we had to pay it ALL back eventhough we were fucking FLAT broke.

Right on Claudia, party hard&#33;&#33;

[Soviet power supreme]

How many times have we crushed you allready?

Do you remember Vietnam?in 60&#39;s?Americans getting their asses kicked badly?Do you remember?

[Sam Adams]

You meen the millions of commies we slaughtered in vietnam, with the loss of a fraction of our own?

We left vietnam a slaughtered and destroyed wasteland, and helped to stop the spread of soviet communism.

[Stalinator]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 08:09 PM
That parasitic system of racism, exploitation and starvation has brought forward many brave men and women, all true soldiers of the revolution, who will not complain, but who will be happy to die fighting, waving the glorious red flag.
Are you gonna bark all day little doggy? Or are you gonna bite?

[Sora]

Someone already mentioned it, you ignorant yankee-reactionaries come in here and babble about &#39;doesn&#39;t work&#39;, &#39;is so evil&#39; and &#39;will never work.&#39; What&#39;s the matter with you? What do you expect? You obviously are too stupid to even invent you own lies. That would at least be creative. Instead, you repeat the lies you were told to repeat.

It must be difficult to sift through 2 and a half pages of a thread before posting a reaction. If you had read it, you would see multiple places where I point out that I am, in fact, not an American. I didn&#39;t grow up under the American educational system. Communism has and will fail because of HUMAN NATURE, less so because of its faults.


Sora you remind me of Cubans in Florida....."oh wah my free health care isn&#39;t fast enuf." "wah my diamond shoes are too tight" I live IN America the richest and according to Righties like you, the "most free" then why is it that I&#39;ve never had health care in my life until I was at the University? My family has NEVER been on welfare, and we work slave wages to make ends meet but when my mother broke her knee walking to the bus stop on a rainy day to her dishwashing job where do you think we were? Up to our ass in bills from doctors, paramedics, ambulence, the ER, physical therapist, surgeons, and not to mention she wore a cast for many many months without working. And yes we had to pay it ALL back eventhough we were fucking FLAT broke...and I don&#39;t mean no "oh my gawd I have to use coupons." I&#39;m talkin NO cable, NO cars, going to a food bank for food....gawd you righties think everyone&#39;s living the American dream. I&#39;ve even lost hearing in my left ear cuz I couldn&#39;t afford an ENT specialist.....We Lefties didn&#39;t one day wake up and decide to be shit heads....revolutions are created cause of MISERY&#33;&#33; Live life in my or my families shoes and you&#39;ll pray to be back in Canada....

I would whine just like the family of the dead woman is doing right now. This woman, who was having heart problems, comes into the hospital, and the problem could have been fixed WITHOUT HER DEATH, had the doctors been able to see her. Six hours is too long to wait for ANY kind of health problem, especially when you&#39;re at a place that is supposed to treat these problems.

I haven&#39;t said that America is the most free. Economically, it is an example of success. As far as personal freedoms go, they are getting a bit too politically correct for my taste.

Horrible to hear about your mother, but at least she got immediate care. I KNOW everyone isn&#39;t living the American Dream. It is not impossible to succeed, though.

[Bianconero]

It must be difficult to sift through 2 and a half pages of a thread before posting a reaction. If you had read it, you would see multiple places where I point out that I am, in fact, not an American. I didn&#39;t grow up under the American educational system. Communism has and will fail because of HUMAN NATURE, less so because of its faults.

I don&#39;t care about you, just like I don&#39;t care about your &#39;is little doggy gonna bite, is it bark?&#39; friend. American or not is irrelevant, and if you would use all of your four braincells, you&#39;d probably realize this yourself.

Just for the record, you petty bourgeois ingrate. &#39;Communism&#39; (Using big words now, eh? I&#39;d bet all my money you couldn&#39;t even define that word you used without reading up first.) will prevail because of human nature, because the working class will not work for others, for single individuals, but for themselves.

I&#39;m finished with both of you. As I&#39;ve said before, you are worth a shot in the back of your head at best. You should be gratefull, actually, that so many comrades here at che-lives spent their valueable time to argue with brainwashed policemen like you.

I suggest you all make a dance now for us, just to say thank you for my, for our all, patience.

[Ahura Mazda]

Originally posted by Dirty [email protected] 8 2004, 11:54 PM
Try being a human being you heartless bastard.
INDEED&#33;

Quit thinking with your mind and start thinking with your emotions&#33; Screw logic, its about what you FEEL rather than what you think, right, pinko fags?

[Ahura Mazda]

I must add that you will NEVER be able to cure humanity of that so-called disease you call "INDIVIDUAL." Humans are not hive-minds, and there is nothing you could ever do to make it so. Face it.

[Bianconero]

http://www.entenpara.de/Hier_gehts_los___/2CV/Alternativen/Mazda_121/Mazda_121.JPG

[Sam Adams]

Everyone is the working class, moron.

Those ceos work harder than you do.

[Ahura Mazda]

Thus Bianconero proves his lacking knowledge, if he thinks that&#39;s what my name is about.

[LSD]

1) Yes I do. Good for them&#33; They should be able to enjoy the fruits of their ancestors labors.

But by doing so they are getting something for nothing and effectively contradicting any argument that capitalism rewards work.


2) They mwork as hard but they work in different ways. The poor person may work hard digging ditches but the rich person worked hard while he was school. He made wise decisions and he is reaping his reward. There is nothing easy about being an executive and your a fool if you think otherwise. There are exceptions but I think they are the minority.

Ever heard of nepotism? How about "it&#39;s not what you know, it&#39;s who you know", by your own admission, people should "be able to enjoy the fruits of their ancestors labors" therefore if I inherit the owenership of a large company and become chairman, how much have I actually worked?


3) Talents they were born with? We would still be in the stoneage if we only rewarded people for the talents they were born with. I think a person is a concious entity that is capable, for the most part, of using their mind. I think that people that use their minds in a positive and constructive way should be able to pursue their dreams. As long as they are not obstructing others from pursuing their dreams they should be left alone. And don&#39;t give me the "they are exploiting others to achieve there goals" crap. I have known to many people that had a rough life but came out on top. From woman that wer sexually abused by there relatives to people born in poverty. They didn&#39;t wallow in what they didn&#39;t have and worked at making their lives better.

Well then how about people who are successful thanks only to their looks, doesn&#39;t that qualify as a "talent they were born with" Notice how much they can make under capitalism.


4) Of course.

well then look at your response to #1, they don&#39;t track.


5) Yes, but your idea of decent and mine are probably way different.


Well then what are your ideas??

[kylie]

I must add that you will NEVER be able to cure humanity of that so-called disease you call "INDIVIDUAL." Humans are not hive-minds, and there is nothing you could ever do to make it so. Face it.
You have highlighted a big flaw in Marxism. It, (though the thinking of the new right is guilty of this too by the way) sees people as passive sums of external influences. Mostly this being through being economically deterministic. It doesn&#39;t consider that individuals themselves interpret and respond differently in situations, and that non-economic factors such has religion, friendship, family etc can affect the decisions a person takes. No, people a born, put into education, sit there and take everything in, are oppressed, disadadvantaged through economic factors, and play no role in how they turn out at the end of it. Of course class plays some part in a persons life, but to say it is the only factor is a simplistic exagerration.

edit - quoted the wrong post

[Bianconero]

Thus Bianconero proves his lacking knowledge, if he thinks that&#39;s what my name is about.

Religious ignorant, I don&#39;t give a damn about the difference between an ugly car and your useless beliefs.

&#39;Sam Adams&#39;, did you just say something? I&#39;m sorry to say I didn&#39;t understand, your drivel just didn&#39;t make any sense.

&#39;Everyone is the working class, moron&#39; ... try again if you want to entertain me. I&#39;m laughing at your idiocy right now. Just wanted to let you know.

[Ahura Mazda]

Never said I was a Zoroastrian :D

[kylie]

But by doing so they are getting something for nothing and effectively contradicting any argument that capitalism rewards work.


This is someting i have never followed in Marxism. A family member dies, and the money or land they leave behind must be given to the public, as opposed to another member of the family? Does the person themself not have any right to decide what should happen to them, and as the existance of wills and life insurance shows, this is usually that they want it to go to someone they know. As would be expected, rather money etc go to someone who they have lived with, cared for, and had close social relationships with than to the public where it will have little effect. I would say the bond between family members or partners is enough itself to justify the passing on of possessions after a death. They are the people who were closest and gave a damn about them the most.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 10:15 PM



But by doing so they are getting something for nothing and effectively contradicting any argument that capitalism rewards work.


This is someting i have never followed in Marxism. A family member dies, and the money or land they leave behind must be given to the public, as opposed to another member of the family? Does the person themself not have any right to decide what should happen to them, and as the existance of wills and life insurance shows, this is usually that they want it to go to someone they know. As would be expected, rather money etc go to someone who they have lived with, cared for, and had close social relationships with than to the public where it will have little effect. I would say the bond between family members or partners is enough itself to justify the passing on of possessions after a death. They are the people who were closest and gave a damn about them the most.
These people dont believe in inheritence.

[kylie]

Apparently so. I was looking more for why though, as i&#39;ve explained it seems the logical process to have in my opinion.

[LSD]

This is someting i have never followed in Marxism. A family member dies, and the money or land they leave behind must be given to the public, as opposed to another member of the family? Does the person themself not have any right to decide what should happen to them, and as the existance of wills and life insurance shows, this is usually that they want it to go to someone they know. As would be expected, rather money etc go to someone who they have lived with, cared for, and had close social relationships with than to the public where it will have little effect. I would say the bond between family members or partners is enough itself to justify the passing on of possessions after a death. They are the people who were closest and gave a damn about them the most.

Well I suppose it depends of the brand of communism you support. Personally as an anarcho-communist, I would argue that you don&#39;t actually have anything to pass on in the first place. It isn&#39;t coupon-communism in which the government rations out resources, but rather the true abolition of private property. In such a community everything already belongs to everyone, including your children/family, just not them alone. Therefore, in reality, the issue does not even arise.

My point in mentioning inheritence was to show that by its very existence in capitalism it negates the mythology of meritocracy and of "hard work paying off."

[Sam Adams]

These hardcore socialists dont even think anymore.

you bring up a point that bianco cant deal with... and their minds just shut down.

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by Sam [email protected] 10 2004, 12:21 AM
These hardcore socialists dont even think anymore.

you bring up a point that bianco cant deal with... and their minds just shut down.
Hey I guess socialists and bush finally have something in common for once :)


On a serious note though it sounds to me like you&#39;ve been drinking a little bit too much of the crappy beer that bears your name.

As for these discussions, if you haven&#39;t noticed there is a new one of these every week, same shit said by all sides...don&#39;t give into this shit...go out and start progressive threads. I&#39;d hate to see anyone on this forum..even a cappie continually posting in these inane conversations that go no where. For the record I only reply to yours because it&#39;s the last on the page

Also Sam..a word of advice..drop the name...It&#39;s miller time

[Sam Adams]

miller? Comparing miller to sam adams is like comparing a stagnant mosquito infested mud puddle with a body floating in it to a clear mountain spring.

:P

[Vinny Rafarino]

I think what you are really scared of is the fact that socialist think "different" from you. You hide behind your rhetoric and ignore the facts. It&#39;s cool though esse, We honestly don&#39;t mind. As a matter of fact, I find your ignorance to be rather amusing.

Remember this son, constant and variable capital have to be supplimented periodically to account for the falling rate of profit caused by the stagnation of variable capital (you cannot pay domestic workers lower than the national minimum wage, forcing variable capital to be decreased through third world globalisation)
and the ever increasing rate of constant capital. If recession years, constant capital is kept at a steady and even falling rate, keeping surplus value at at least the rate of the combined totals of C and V but once a nation&#39;s GDP takes any leaps beyond 7 to 9 % you can easily surmise that the surplus in constant capital (goods used to actually produce goods and commodities Mr. Know it all) will be used within 2 to 3 business cycles.

When the surplus in C finally expires, it will continue it&#39;s rising trend (a very simple economic equation produced and affected by market competition and surplus...meaning goods are only worth an exemplary amount of surplus value if you indeed are the only one producing them...the "beauty" of the free market economic platform makes sure that surplus value will continually drop as more and more competitors offer the same products to the market at lower rates of surplus value until the time when C and V combined will equal the rate of surplus value.) until the rate of variable capital (that means wages sonny) is somehow lowered enough to allow for surplus value to actually be collected. This means large corporations will need to dramatically lower the rate to variable capital to remain profitable. A corporation that stays in the red for too many business cycles in this era does not last long.

Expansion into thirrd world nations provides the necessary decrease in variable capital (8 hours a day for a few yanqui dollars vs. Federal minimum wage...you do the math) plus the luxury of purchasing constant capital goods directly from these third world manufacturers equals "pseudo-profitability" reports to the analysts stateside. Good analyst forecasts means (strong buy ratings) means more dollars to offset the steady domestic decrease in the rate of domestic profit.

In essence, an enormous racket is erected to simply make a few folks filthy rich until the time comes when competition and the steady increase in third world GDP&#39;s no longer allows the US to exploit their work force.

In a nutshell kids.....have fun while it lasts capitalists, because the end is coming sooner than you think.

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by Sam [email protected] 10 2004, 12:42 AM
miller? Comparing miller to sam adams is like comparing a stagnant mosquito infested mud puddle with a body floating in it to a clear mountain spring.

:P
I"m from MILWAUKEE&#33;&#33;&#33; what the hell do you expect????

Also sam adams...it&#39;s a bit too pretentious for me..Sam thinks he&#39;s better than everyone else..kinida like Cappies :).....Miller is the beer for the average man..

[lucid]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 10 2004, 12:54 AM
I think what you are really scared of is the fact that socialist think "different" from you. You hide behind your rhetoric and ignore the facts. It&#39;s cool though esse, We honestly don&#39;t mind. As a matter of fact, I find your ignorance to be rather amusing.

Remember this son, constant and variable capital have to be supplimented periodically to account for the falling rate of profit caused by the stagnation of variable capital (you cannot pay domestic workers lower than the national minimum wage, forcing variable capital to be decreased through third world globalisation)
and the ever increasing rate of constant capital. If recession years, constant capital is kept at a steady and even falling rate, keeping surplus value at at least the rate of the combined totals of C and V but once a nation&#39;s GDP takes any leaps beyond 7 to 9 % you can easily surmise that the surplus in constant capital (goods used to actually produce goods and commodities Mr. Know it all) will be used within 2 to 3 business cycles.

When the surplus in C finally expires, it will continue it&#39;s rising trend (a very simple economic equation produced and affected by market competition and surplus...meaning goods are only worth an exemplary amount of surplus value if you indeed are the only one producing them...the "beauty" of the free market economic platform makes sure that surplus value will continually drop as more and more competitors offer the same products to the market at lower rates of surplus value until the time when C and V combined will equal the rate of surplus value.) until the rate of variable capital (that means wages sonny) is somehow lowered enough to allow for surplus value to actually be collected. This means large corporations will need to dramatically lower the rate to variable capital to remain profitable. A corporation that stays in the red for too many business cycles in this era does not last long.

Expansion into thirrd world nations provides the necessary decrease in variable capital (8 hours a day for a few yanqui dollars vs. Federal minimum wage...you do the math) plus the luxury of purchasing constant capital goods directly from these third world manufacturers equals "pseudo-profitability" reports to the analysts stateside. Good analyst forecasts means (strong buy ratings) means more dollars to offset the steady domestic decrease in the rate of domestic profit.

In essence, an enormous racket is erected to simply make a few folks filthy rich until the time comes when competition and the steady increase in third world GDP&#39;s no longer allows the US to exploit their work force.

In a nutshell kids.....have fun while it lasts capitalists, because the end is coming sooner than you think.
This is probably one of those people you hear about in the news every now and then. They find 100 guns and 50k rounds of ammo buried under their trailer.

Its the end of the world as we now it&#33;&#33;&#33; And I feel fine&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

/me hands Comrade RAF a tinfoil hat.

Put that on. It&#39;ll keep aliens from taking your soul&#33;

[Sam Adams]

pffft:)

[Vinny Rafarino]

I assumed you both knew nothing about economics. Fantastic. Now I don&#39;t have to bother responding to any of your posts. I only bother to respond to intelligent capitalists....if at all...You two kids are not worth much of anyone&#39;s time here.


Happy hunting my little troll friends....

[lucid]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 10 2004, 01:14 AM
I assumed you both knew nothing about economics. Fantastic. Now I don&#39;t have to bother responding to any of your posts. I only bother to respond to intelligent capitalists....if at all...You two kids are not worth much of anyone&#39;s time here.


Happy hunting my little troll friends....
I love how he calls everyone "kid" and "son". Comrade RAF is what happens when the unibomber gets a computer and fast access. May be smart but still ass backwards.

[Vinny Rafarino]

http://www.qsl.net/kc2ufo/5.jpg




me hands Comrade RAF a tinfoil hat.

Put that on. It&#39;ll keep aliens from taking your soul&#33;



I&#39;ve been had&#33;

[EneME]

Originally posted by lucid+Jan 9 2004, 05:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lucid @ Jan 9 2004, 05:02 PM)
[email protected] 9 2004, 08:18 AM
Sora you remind me of Cubans in Florida....."oh wah my free health care isn&#39;t fast enuf." "wah my diamond shoes are too tight" I live IN America the richest and according to Righties like you, the "most free" then why is it that I&#39;ve never had health care in my life until I was at the University? My family has NEVER been on welfare, and we work slave wages to make ends meet but when my mother broke her knee walking to the bus stop on a rainy day to her dishwashing job where do you think we were? Up to our ass in bills from doctors, paramedics, ambulence, the ER, physical therapist, surgeons, and not to mention she wore a cast for many many months without working. And yes we had to pay it ALL back eventhough we were fucking FLAT broke...and I don&#39;t mean no "oh my gawd I have to use coupons." I&#39;m talkin NO cable, NO cars, going to a food bank for food....gawd you righties think everyone&#39;s living the American dream. I&#39;ve even lost hearing in my left ear cuz I couldn&#39;t afford an ENT specialist.....We Lefties didn&#39;t one day wake up and decide to be shit heads....revolutions are created cause of MISERY&#33;&#33; Live life in my or my families shoes and you&#39;ll pray to be back in Canada....
Translation:

I didn&#39;t pay attention in school and partied instead of getting a good education. Now I have a shit job and can&#39;t support the family I shouldn&#39;t have. And it&#39;s everyones fault but my on&#33; [/b]
okay...two words for you...FUCK YOU...you have idea who I am nor who my family is....what are you talking about not going to school and not getting a good education?&#33; I&#39;m a fuckin junior at a state University on the Deans List dick wad....I was fuckin accepted to UC Berkeley one of the most prestigious schools. My father was one of the few to go to the University in El Salvador and became an accountant....you have absolutely no idea what the fuck ur talking about and to make assumptions. I responded to ur BS so you can hear from an AMERICAN in a REAL LIFE situation so maybe you can understand things more clearly but I really don&#39;t have to take any disrespect from you....I might have said something you didn&#39;t like but I never flat out disrespected you because most Lefties (not all I admit) believe in DISCUSSION but you wouldn&#39;t know anything about that.

[praxis1966]

Hey Lucid, you talk like the best part of you ran down the crack of your momma&#39;s ass and wound up as a brown stain on the mattress. I think you&#39;ve been cheated. Why don&#39;t you go shit in your hat or suck on a tailpipe before I ***** slap you all the way to Manitoba. One last thing, did your parents have any children that lived? If so, I bet they regret it.

[Hate Is Art]

I love how he calls everyone "kid" and "son". Comrade RAF is what happens when the unibomber gets a computer and fast access. May be smart but still ass backwards.

You are the unnatrual offspring of a skunk and the goo on the underside of the toilet.