How to deal with Autonomous Nationalists?

[Tim Cornelis]

Autonomous Nationalists, they boggle me mind. In theory, what they rhetorically convey, is to the left of Marxism-Leninism. They advocate a council communism, alongside 'international nationalism' (each working people initiating revolution within their country based on its peculiar national conditions, until the global revolution is complete and capitalism is been abolished), and call communist theorists 'comrades', yet cooperate and move alongside conventional and generic fascist movements.

So how should we deal with this? How do we interpret this?

[Taters]

Ignore them? Exactly how large or influential are these "Autonomous Nationalists" in your country?

[Ocean Seal]

Autonomous Nationalists, they boggle me mind. In theory, what they rhetorically convey, is to the left of Marxism-Leninism. They advocate a council communism, alongside 'international nationalism' (each working people initiating revolution within their country based on its peculiar national conditions, until the global revolution is complete and capitalism is been abolished), and call communist theorists 'comrades', yet cooperate and move alongside conventional and generic fascist movements.

So how should we deal with this? How do we interpret this?
We should interpret it for what it is, pure ideology. There are not anti-communists by any virtue, and internationalism is the natural progression of communism. They are peculiar, they cling to nationalist ideology, but are inherently our comrades in the struggle.

[Taters]

They are peculiar, they cling to nationalist ideology, but are inherently our comrades in the struggle.

Are they really our comrades if they cooperate with fascists, as the OP said?

[Tim Cornelis]

We should interpret it for what it is, pure ideology. There are not anti-communists by any virtue, and internationalism is the natural progression of communism. They are peculiar, they cling to nationalist ideology, but are inherently our comrades in the struggle.

Indeed, internationalism is the natural progression of communism, so in essence their actions, whether deliberate or not, lead to internationalism -- which would arguably make them our useful idiots. Why do they move alongside conventional fascists though? Their ideology seems to closer approximate ours than theirs, so does that suggest crypto-fascist sympathies? If so, I do not understand why they would hide it. Normally one would hide such sympathies out of fear of political suicide, but given that they are marginal why would they care?


Ignore them? Exactly how large or influential are these "Autonomous Nationalists" in your country?

There are two groups, I imagine 10-30 members nationwide jointly. I anticipate them showing up at a demonstration this Saturday, and I don't know how to respond to this when (or if) I spot them. I suppose charging them with fascist collaboration (if not fascists themselves) is sufficient grounds to kick them out.

[Per Levy]

autonomous nationalists(AN) are fascists: while they adobt somewhat of leftist rethoric and even dress a bit alternativley they are still nazis at heart but more the strasser national socialist type. mind you i speak from a german perspektive and here the AN are pretty much the largest nazi group organized in "freie kameradschaften"(dont know how to translate that). they are defenetly no comrades. i dont know if this is different in the netherlands but if they work together with fascists they out them selfs as what they are.

[Radix1944]

Autonoms are in Poland too. They use tactic of SA and NSDAP. They claim that they fight for Socialism but they are anticommunists and cooperate with procapitalist fascist. Many of them don't know anything about thie ideology. Before mayday demo organised by Autonoms, reporter of "National TV" asked "Gentelmens, why those black flags?" and one hooligan of Legia Warszawa said: "We don't know". Autonomous Nationalists are just neo-Nazis. Same rethoric as NSDAP, same tactic. They pretend to be left, 'cause they want to destroy left.

[Tim Cornelis]

autonomous nationalists(AN) are fascists: while they adobt somewhat of leftist rethoric and even dress a bit alternativley they are still nazis at heart but more the strasser national socialist type. mind you i speak from a german perspektive and here the AN are pretty much the largest nazi group organized in "freie kameradschaften"(dont know how to translate that). they are defenetly no comrades. i dont know if this is different in the netherlands but if they work together with fascists they out them selfs as what they are.

In the Netherlands we have Netwerk Nationale Socialisten (Network National Socialists -- they subtly differentiate by calling themselves 'Nationale Socialisten' instead of 'Nationaal-Socialisten', with the latter being the name for Nazism), which seem like 'autonomous nazis' calling for a national and socialist Netherlands; the Free Nationalists North Brabant whom call for autonomy and decentralisation (read here (http://acnakn.wordpress.com/english/)), I don't particularly see any explicit fascistic sentiment expressed, but they are close with the NNS, and finally we have the National Socialist Action (again, the subtle different between Nationaal-Socialisten and Nationale Socialisten is made).
The NSA advocates, in their own words, council socialism (evading the name communism), international nationalism, and call Otto Neurath their "comrade".

The trouble is I cannot spot anything that would make them sympathetic to conventional fascism, yet they march side by side. So what is the rationale behind this...

But even if we can say they are not fascists, but work with them, they are class enemies -- more than that even.


Autonoms are in Poland too. They use tactic of SA and NSDAP. They claim that they fight for Socialism but they are anticommunists and cooperate with procapitalist fascist. Many of them don't know anything about thie ideology. Before mayday demo organised by Autonoms, reporter of "National TV" asked "Gentelmens, why those black flags?" and one hooligan of Legia Warszawa said: "We don't know". Autonomous Nationalists are just neo-Nazis. Same rethoric as NSDAP, same tactic. They pretend to be left, 'cause they want to destroy left.

Indeed, usually these Autonomous Nationalists are reincarnated Neo-Nazis, and don't bother about the ideology.

[Sasha]

A half brick is a tried and tested way of dealing with them....

[Tim Cornelis]

A half brick is a tried and tested way of dealing with them....

I will probably go with a liberal interpretation of that, yeah.

[Let's Get Free]

I've heard of these "national anarchist" types. It's a 'Third Positionist' ideology that pretty much combines White Nationalism and autonomist decentralization.

Fortunately, it's a rather marginal ideology, so i don't think you'll have to worry about it too much.

[BIXX]

So wait... What?

1. Are they white power oriented?
2. Are they authoritarian?

[TheEmancipator]

I've heard of these "national anarchist" types. It's a 'Third Positionist' ideology that pretty much combines White Nationalism and autonomist decentralization.

Fortunately, it's a rather marginal ideology, so i don't think you'll have to worry about it too much.

"Third positionists", unlike the far right in itself, can originate from leftist backgrounds. Anarchists who want to create city-states are usually accused of third positionism because they are proud of their community.

I think the Third Positionists you are talking about are the Nationalist Revolutionary movements you find in Western Europe, who are nothing short of neo-nazis. Automonists are many things, but they are in no way Neo-nazis.

[Comrade #138672]

Isn't it just opportunism? Lenin said something about national self-determination. Let's quote him!

[TheEmancipator]

Isn't it just opportunism? Lenin said something about national self-determination. Let's quote him!

Lenin is a third positionist then. As are all the "socialism in one country" bullshitters. The demonstration of Russian nationalism after the Bolshevik coup is proof of that.