Log in

View Full Version : My Critique of Parent-Child Relationships



Skyhilist
20th May 2013, 03:35
This is just a short critique I developed as a high school kid of one of the relationships I deal with everyday between my parents. Feel free to call me out if I've said anything false. This was inspired by one of the endless conflicts between me and my family which seems to occur quite frequently now. I attempted to start an honest discussion about whether sending my little brother to bed crying as a form of punishment really solved anything. As a result I was met with anger and threats, including from my mom who almost immediately told me I needed to "shut the fuck up." Oh well; at least she avoided calling me a failure or a disgrace this time like she has in the past. I honestly can't wait to go off to college. Anyways, sorry for rambling; here's the assessment that was inspired in light of this. If it's lacking in some aspect please criticize me although know that I'm only well-intentioned so I'm not trying to stir up any bad blood or anything like that. Also note that I'm mainly referring to modern day, liberal, hypocritical parents in my critique below. I know that there are many wonderful mothers and fathers on this site, whom I'm sure little or none of this applies to. My criticism isn't directed at you.

Anyways, here's my assessment of some the failures of modern day parent-kid relationships:

The relationships between parents and their kids in modern society os one that I feel is not touched on frequently enough. It is one deserving of the utmost criticism and in many cases holds a somewhat outdated function as a relationship, which needs desperately to be reassessed. Why do I have such an utter disdain for most parent-kid relationships? Is that for some reason they're supposed to be the one exception where authority should for some reason go unquestioned. It's quite ironic actually when you think about it. Consider the way government gives concessions to families such as public services. These services, in the eyes of any rational parents, do not warrant absolute silence about government on their point. It doesn't make government infallible, it doesn't mean it can't be questioned, it doesn't mean their voices are less legitimate because they aren't in the position of governmental authority. Yet, when we look at the remarkably analogous relationship between parents and children we see an absolute failure to apply these same principles. Principles that parents (looking at you especially liberals) teach their children through their actions, yet punish them for when they attempt them themselves through perfectly earnest and reasonable critiques of their parents as similar authority figures. For some reason, this is a special situation. A rare situation in which we are taught is the one time where the authority figure is infallible. Where we are taught never to question the relationships in front of us. One of the rare times where we might expect honest and sincere criticisms to be meant with clenched fists and anger, rather than well-reasoned discussion.

It is of even of greater a crime to point this out. Point out the discrepancies in which authority figures it is ok to question as a child, and you receive a wide array of bitter and hostile retorts. "This is the way it was when I was a kid." "You receive so much... You have it easy!" "You just want to push buttons... to cause tension." These are the kinds of statements that are to be expected from attempted to bring about any honest critique on the decisions of parents as authority figures. The latter of these three quotes is often untrue, although it of course occasionally accurate. the problem with this retort though lies in the fact that it is directed so unevenly at the child alone. After all, is there really a single person out there who has never used argumentative or provocative strategies to get back at someone by whom they've been annoyed? The former two quotes on the other hand may indeed be true, which is probably why they are so widely used and so uncommonly called into question. Unfortunately, the fact that these are quite simply red herrings goes to often unnoticed, or is dismissed as "an attempt to turn parenting into some type of philosophical debate"; an accusation that can be made for any attempt to use common logic when it goes against the actions taken by the parent.

Finally, a third, and arguably most severe issue commonly found within even the most well-intentioned parent-child relationships is the ability of parents, as already established "infallible" authority figures to so easily shift most of the blame onto the child in an effort to lift it's burden off of themselves. Lets take for example, the purely hypothetical example of a young adult and his mother who get into an argument. The kid attempts to offer up an honest observation that calls into question the behavior of parents. Naturally, it is met with clenched fists and anger as the mother might soon even become borderline verbally abusive. Clearly this is a situation involving two parties. Not so when the conflict is addressed by the parents shortly thereafter who will harshly condemn any attempts at critique made by the kid, while ignoring the borderline verbal abusiveness of the other in an attempt to shift the blame, similarly to how rape victims wearing provocative clothing are often blamed for the actions of their rapists. The child is told "you can't change your mother; we're not talking about her. You're the one who needs to stop inciting this nonsense." Not only does this place all blame squarely on the kid, but it absolves the parents, or authority figures of any guilt that they may have otherwise had.

Of course, any attempts to point out the mechanisms underlying these relationships are always met with one liners meant to divert attention away from the issue, which the kid has brought up. "That's not the issue we're talking about", "this is not a philosophical discussion", and "next time you talk back you will lose x, y, and z" tend to be popular retorts, amongst others which point out that teachers, coaches, and other personal authority figures are also not to be called into question, once again failing to question the underlying mechanisms behind which these relationships function in order to restore authority in the face of observations or critiques that are seen as threats.

For these reasons, it seems clear that parent-child relationships need to be reconsidered. Is there a time when all 8-year olds need to be told to go to bed? Yes. Is there a time when children lacking full cognitive potential need to be given direction? Yes. But is there ever a time where an honest critique of an authority that is never infallible should be met with clenched fists and borderline abusive language? Absolutely not, and the fact that many parents are granted this right unquestionably shows an underlying flaw within this relationship. At a certain point individuals become ready to be autonomous agents who can act on their own. This point is not uniform and certainly not the same for everyone. It can not be accurately defined by a single number such as "18".

Zealot
20th May 2013, 04:08
This seems to me more of a rant about your own parents than an actual critique of parent-child relationships and appears to be coming from a liberal point of view. There is a total lack of class analysis and you remain silent on the effects of alienation within the family structure. Anywho, you probably wrote this in an emotional state so don't take my criticisms too seriously. But if you are in fact serious about writing a critique you may want to consider the points I've raised.

Skyhilist
20th May 2013, 04:26
This seems to me more of a rant about your own parents than an actual critique of parent-child relationships and appears to be coming from a liberal point of view. There is a total lack of class analysis and you remain silent on the effects of alienation within the family structure. Anywho, you probably wrote this in an emotional state so don't take my criticisms too seriously. But if you are in fact serious about writing a critique you may want to consider the points I've raised.

Sorry... I was just trying to assess the types of power granted in relationships, and thought it would be applicable to more than just me given that I've heard many of my peers describing similar stuff. Sorry I'm not very good at this. To be honest I don't feel very intelligent or good at this kind of stuff compared to most people on this site...

Guess I'll chalk this up as a failed analysis. You're right, I should have taken those things into consideration.

Crixus
20th May 2013, 04:41
There's no more community, especially in the western world. Isolated 'nuclear' families in houses on couches in front of TV's and video game consoles. Parents are over worked and exhausted. The 'job' or responsibility of raising children in isolation coupled with having to provide materially is overwhelming for most working class parents. This might manifest, in the children's eyes, as irrational authoritarianism at times and I'm sure many parents can be jerks and or abusive, mine were at times, this isn't to excuse that, but, the constant pressure to provide and to 'form' or help another human being (child) conform to the expectations of the capitalist system is a daunting task. I would subjectively argue communist parents are probably nicer. This is just an assumption though because they too might be operating in isolation within a nuclear family.

Take primitive communism for example. The study of the Iroquois showed how children were raised in the community. That it wasnt just one or two peoples jobs to teach them to hunt, forage, build shelter etc. This job was 'spread out' and also didnt involve the various pit falls of indoctrinating a human being into the hyper controlled environment of modern capitalism. There was no, "do your homework little Timmy because you need to grow up and buy stuff and produce and consume and produce and consume. Be a good little cog Timmy". Parents role in our modern capitalist system is to instill a sort of individualist "work hard/study and everything will be alright" mindset. The move out at 18, go to college and be a careerist. Place individual achievement before that of community and even family. Capitalism has dissected and fragmented community bonds to such a degree that most of the population in advanced western capitalist societies live primarily in separate boxes. In small apartments. In cars on the way to work. In a cubicle at work. All in our own small little separate boxes of isolation and "individualism". This requires a great amount of discipline. We have to 'unlearn' normal human social behavior. Facebook is shit. Could write a whole book on that. Anyway, this isnt so much in a manual parents get which is written by maniacal capitalists hiding out in some dark basement somewhere (although that has happened) it's more a sort of necessary social conditioning in order for the market system to flourish. Community ties need to be cut. The "family unit" is touted as the ultimate expression of freedom and individualism. We all need to be cut off from older traditional ways of living. Everything needs to be made dependent on the market. People need to be socially isolated in the same way the market demanded we be cut off from living off the land. This isolation is not 'natural' in any historical sense as it was, for much of human history, a village that raised a child not one or two people in isolation while busting their ass to provide material sustenance in isolation.

In short, most parents aren't bad people they're isolated and stressed out from the capitalist system and the nuclear family it depends on. Don't be too hard on them (unless they're being physically or sexually abusive). Most of the time parents mean well and with age you'll come to realize they're just as lost and confused as the rest of us. Many times even more so. Try to give this a read in order to grasp the history of the nuclear family:


http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/

Zealot
20th May 2013, 22:18
Sorry... I was just trying to assess the types of power granted in relationships, and thought it would be applicable to more than just me given that I've heard many of my peers describing similar stuff. Sorry I'm not very good at this. To be honest I don't feel very intelligent or good at this kind of stuff compared to most people on this site...

Guess I'll chalk this up as a failed analysis. You're right, I should have taken those things into consideration.

There's nothing to be sorry about, everything is a learning process and I think everyone has written their fair share of failed analyses. Crixus has done a good job of incorporating class analysis and alienation so pay attention ;) And don't hesitate to post your future critiques

ÑóẊîöʼn
28th May 2013, 14:30
"This is the way it was when I was a kid."

"You receive so much... You have it easy!"

"You just want to push buttons... to cause tension."

"an attempt to turn parenting into some type of philosophical debate"

"you can't change your mother; we're not talking about her. You're the one who needs to stop inciting this nonsense."

"That's not the issue we're talking about"

"this is not a philosophical discussion"

"next time you talk back you will lose x, y, and z"

Statements like these used to irritate the shit out of me as a kid, and to perfectly honest they still irritate me to this day, but because I'm now an adult, I have to deal with a different variety of bullshit.

Seriously, do people think that kids are utterly fucking brain-dead? A kid might not be able to reel off the exact formal name of a fallacy when asked to do so, but they can certainly understand that a statement is fallacious.

Thankfully I was fairly lucky to have parents that rarely had to resort to such behaviour and who would actually take the time to explain things to me. For that I am eternally grateful! It was mainly other adults who would try to pull the above kind of shit on me.

"Kid" is not synonymous with "idiot".

human strike
29th May 2013, 04:26
needs moar psychoanalysis

Quail
29th May 2013, 09:48
My kid is only 3, so I guess this might not really be that relevant, but I'll give my thoughts anyway. When I'm dealing with my son I try to make a distinction between "legitimate" authority and "illegitimate" authority - for example, it's okay to be insistent that he holds my hand as we walk by busy roads, but it's not okay to tell him he can't paint because I feel too lazy to clean up the mess. I try to always give him a real, logical reason why we have to do something, or why we can't do something, instead of saying something like "because I'm an adult and I say so" because I don't think that's a legitimate reason in itself. I try to avoid punishment where possible (although my partner doesn't, which can be frustrating) but if I have to "punish" him it's usually something like taking his pens away because he drew all over the wall - so more like preventing him from doing whatever he did again rather than actually punishing him. If he's being exceptionally naughty I put him in his bedroom for 10 minutes or so to save my sanity, or if he's over-tired and acting out I put him to bed a bit early. Whatever I'm doing seems to be working anyway, he's a nice kid most of the time.

Anyway, I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that I'm trying to avoid as much as possible replicating the power structures that I reject in wider society in my own household.

Quail
29th May 2013, 09:48
My kid is only 3, so I guess this might not really be that relevant, but I'll give my thoughts anyway. When I'm dealing with my son I try to make a distinction between "legitimate" authority and "illegitimate" authority - for example, it's okay to be insistent that he holds my hand as we walk by busy roads, but it's not okay to tell him he can't paint because I feel too lazy to clean up the mess. I try to always give him a real, logical reason why we have to do something, or why we can't do something, instead of saying something like "because I'm an adult and I say so" because I don't think that's a legitimate reason in itself. I try to avoid punishment where possible (although my partner doesn't, which can be frustrating) but if I have to "punish" him it's usually something like taking his pens away because he drew all over the wall - so more like preventing him from doing whatever he did again rather than actually punishing him. If he's being exceptionally naughty I put him in his bedroom for 10 minutes or so to save my sanity, or if he's over-tired and acting out I put him to bed a bit early. Whatever I'm doing seems to be working anyway, he's a nice kid most of the time.

Anyway, I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that I'm trying to avoid as much as possible replicating the power structures that I reject in wider society in my own household.

ÑóẊîöʼn
29th May 2013, 10:22
My kid is only 3, so I guess this might not really be that relevant, but I'll give my thoughts anyway. When I'm dealing with my son I try to make a distinction between "legitimate" authority and "illegitimate" authority - for example, it's okay to be insistent that he holds my hand as we walk by busy roads, but it's not okay to tell him he can't paint because I feel too lazy to clean up the mess. I try to always give him a real, logical reason why we have to do something, or why we can't do something, instead of saying something like "because I'm an adult and I say so" because I don't think that's a legitimate reason in itself.

I can only speak for myself of course, but I actually preferred it when adults said that they couldn't be bothered to do something, rather than bullshitting or saying "because I said so". As a kid I could at least understand adult laziness even if I didn't necessary like it.

I must say though, you sound like a wonderful parent! If only more were like you...

Vladimir Innit Lenin
7th June 2013, 12:44
There are good parents and bad parents. Bad parents aren't evil, and bad parents don't become some magical, indefatigable proof that parent-child relationships are unhealthy. Most likely, bad parenting is part of a vicious cycle whose fault lies in poverty cycles, lack of education and their various consequences.

Capitalism is a society where education is not used to further one's personal needs, wants or desires; education in capitalism is used to adjust people's skills and abilities to the (ever-changing) needs of the labour market. Combining this with capitalist ideas on unemployment (i.e. there is a healthy level of unemployment and it runs into the millions), you're always going to have a situation where people under capitalism have kids yet have no practical skills, knowledge or self-worth, because they were abandoned by the education system, and therefore never had a chance of properly accessing the labour market, confined to a life of alienation, poverty and misery.

If you add into this that for at least the past 100 years, ideas on welfare under developed capitalist systems have taken on the character of the 'deserving v undeserving poor'-type argument, then it's no surprise that there are many, many parents who are ill-equipped to bring up their children in the sense of using legitimate vs illegitimate authority, in the sense of being able to provide materially for their children and ultimately providing a safe, healthy, and stimulating/loving environment for their children to grow up in.

I really don't buy this argument that parent-child relationships are inherently too authoritarian, or exploitative, or somehow 'wrong'. What we see as undesirable traits in a parent are, ultimately and in general, products of the system that churns out mass unemployment, poverty and alienation.

Skyhilist
7th June 2013, 21:20
There are good parents and bad parents. Bad parents aren't evil, and bad parents don't become some magical, indefatigable proof that parent-child relationships are unhealthy. Most likely, bad parenting is part of a vicious cycle whose fault lies in poverty cycles, lack of education and their various consequences.

Capitalism is a society where education is not used to further one's personal needs, wants or desires; education in capitalism is used to adjust people's skills and abilities to the (ever-changing) needs of the labour market. Combining this with capitalist ideas on unemployment (i.e. there is a healthy level of unemployment and it runs into the millions), you're always going to have a situation where people under capitalism have kids yet have no practical skills, knowledge or self-worth, because they were abandoned by the education system, and therefore never had a chance of properly accessing the labour market, confined to a life of alienation, poverty and misery.

If you add into this that for at least the past 100 years, ideas on welfare under developed capitalist systems have taken on the character of the 'deserving v undeserving poor'-type argument, then it's no surprise that there are many, many parents who are ill-equipped to bring up their children in the sense of using legitimate vs illegitimate authority, in the sense of being able to provide materially for their children and ultimately providing a safe, healthy, and stimulating/loving environment for their children to grow up in.

I really don't buy this argument that parent-child relationships are inherently too authoritarian, or exploitative, or somehow 'wrong'. What we see as undesirable traits in a parent are, ultimately and in general, products of the system that churns out mass unemployment, poverty and alienation.

This might be true in many cases... in my case though my parents are both very educated (mom has a master's degree, dad has a PhD) and still resort to the fallacies that NoXion quoted me on above... so it's not JUST education, at least certainly not when my parents resort to that kind of stuff.

Also Quail you sound like an awesome parent :)