Extreme home makeover against fascism...

[aty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHyY-ou28r8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHyY-ou28r8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4qdw-JRz4E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4qdw-JRz4E)

What do you think of this tactic?

[Crixus]

I think it's a waste of time, unless of course there's some huge resurgence of fascism to the point where they might take state power but you need to realize that wouldn't happen without the consent of capitalists as capitalists are the ones who place fascists in power. Even if fascists were on the verge of state power how would things like this stop it? Actions like this might feel good on some 'direct action' level and I have no sympathy for NAZI's or their property but time would be better spent in the community building bonds rather than a prison cell. Even so doing things like this can and will escalate into murder in the streets. At least in America. I've seen it go that far.

In America NAZI's are so irrelevant committing burglary and property damage to opposes them would be overboard as to the actual threat they pose. I think this threat may be different in different parts of the globe though but still breaking into a persons house is setting the stage for some extreme violence to take place. Not the sort of thing needed at the moment but like I said maybe in other parts of the world fascists are a real threat to building a free and equal society. I'm still of the opinion the real material not ideological threat is capital for without it they would have no chance at attaining power. Fascist ideology is a real threat to be opposed but I'm not sure these videos show us the way.

[Sudsy]

I agree with Crixus, this is just a bunch of punks fucking around. There`s nothing revolutionary here.

[aty]

I agree with Crixus, this is just a bunch of punks fucking around. There`s nothing revolutionary here.
It is antifascism, it is like taking out the garbage, it is a pain in the ass but has to be done. And calling Revolutionary Front punks and not revolutionary is interesting...

In Sweden this have proved effective in the last years, many fascists is in these groups to feel part of something. To not give them the satisfaction and bonding on street fights they get attacked individually and alone.
I guess you can do these kind of actions if you have the amount of force behind your organization to back it up later. For a fact we have won the the war against the direct fascist violence with these kind of actions, they do not any longer have any real power on the streets.

[Sasha]

no problem with the actions, i just wonder if its smart to a. do this under your own name and b. post vids of it on youtube. i mean, there is a reason greek insurecto's come up with a new silly acronym for every ATM they blow up to claim under. and even if they covered their tracks well the cops only need to round up some RF members and lean on them hard enough and one is bound to crack at one point, and that is assuming that they didnt keep that nice neon green and pink crowbar or distinct white balaclava around

[#FF0000]

seems like a good time at least.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

It's obviously an extremely symptomatic solution, if you can even call it a solution.
I don't really see this being effective in any way. They have wrecked some fascist's home, yeah so? Is this gonna destroy fascism? Is this a great act of anti-fascism?

Let's look at this for what it is, a nazi's house getting wrecked, which is not something to cry about, but it isn't something that will get real results.

[Dropdead]

Although this may not really bring alot of results except for the fascist fuckface to be scared for the rest of his life, it's still great that people have the balls to do such things. (wreck a house in broad daylight)
I actually support this kind of action, we need more like this in Finland, too.

[Sasha]

Its terrorism in the strictest sense of the word, and just as cops show up in your doorstep, talk to your friends and family, even will resort to violence to make you refrain from activism "terrorising" Nazi's is highly effective. It makes being an active Nazi just nit worth it. But its an extreme tactic that should only be used against the most influential, top organizing Nazi's, and one best used in sillence, in the dark.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Not taking credit for it, or better yet, not even acknowledging that it happened would be best. Why should he have the satisfaction of knowing why his property was trashed or which group was responsible? He should be made to feel as powerless as possible. Funny regardless though.

[Craig_J]

I think this is ridiculous. What's the point in supporting it?

Yeah they're a fasicst, so don't really get much sympathy.

But what kind of good does this do for the left's image? Saying if you hold a view which is extremley opposite to ours means we're going to come and smash up your house is a bit ironic when you're trying to defeat fascism. If they did the same to us we'd be up in arms.

Why not do actual conciousness raising to prevent fascism rather than resorting to this? If you want to do a job properly then spend the time trying to recruit people and argue your point of view than wasting your time destroying a house.

Again, no sympathy for the facists but I don't see how this helps improve the image of communism to anyone. If anything it just makes us as bad as the fascist by telling them what they can and can't think.

[MarxArchist]

If anything it just makes us as bad as the fascist by telling them what they can and can't think.

Well, ugh, when that thinking includes 'the final solution' I don't so much mind a fist to the face let alone a trashed place. If I'm not mistaken NAZI ideology is banned in Germany yes?

[Craig_J]

Well, ugh, when that thinking includes 'the final solution' I don't so much mind a fist to the face let alone a trashed place. If I'm not mistaken NAZI ideology is banned in Germany yes?

Oh don't get me wrong, it IS what they deserve. But it's not going to do any good what so ever.

If a fascist came and smashed up your place (as hey have done, and much worse, to many leftiss) would you all of a sudden give up communism? Give up your leftist principles? Stop campaigning based on the actions of those?

Of course not, it would strengthen your resolve and may even make you and the people around you think of retaliation because of the anger caused. It's just going to do the exact same for them, strengthen their resolve and probably cause them to go on the offesnive more than usual.

I just don't see what good can come from this. It seems like a waste of time and effort and in the mean time all you're risking is landing yourself in jail where you can be around even more Nazi's and achieve zero campaigning.

A year or so ago I'd be cheering this on as a wonderful act, but now I just don't see any good coming from this.

[MarxArchist]

I just don't see what good can come from this. It seems like a waste of time and effort and in the mean time all you're risking is landing yourself in jail where you can be around even more Nazi's and achieve zero campaigning.



Ya, that wouldn't go over well in jail. They'd have a welcoming committie waiting with open arms. I've been through jail years back and had to not shower due to a communist tattoo. Two weeks of not showering, thats another way to keep people away from you ;)

[Craig_J]

Ya, that wouldn't go over well in jail. They'd have a welcoming committie waiting with open arms. I've been through jail years back and had to not shower due to a communist tattoo. Two weeks of not showering, thats another way to keep people away from you ;)

Can only imagine! I'm planning on getting a communist tattoo soon, didn't even think of what would happen if I went into prison!

[Sasha]

i urge people to dont forget this is sweden we are talking about here, before (among other tactics) this kind of campaing were unleashed on the fash trade-unionist, left-wing journalists and other leftists where getting (fire) bombed and knifed at an alarming rate in the 90's. shit was really bad for a while. when the nazi's are setting fire to the houses of trade-unionists with not only them but even their kids inside extreme measures are called for.

[An archist]

Oh don't get me wrong, it IS what they deserve. But it's not going to do any good what so ever.

If a fascist came and smashed up your place (as hey have done, and much worse, to many leftiss) would you all of a sudden give up communism? Give up your leftist principles? Stop campaigning based on the actions of those?

Of course not, it would strengthen your resolve and may even make you and the people around you think of retaliation because of the anger caused. It's just going to do the exact same for them, strengthen their resolve and probably cause them to go on the offesnive more than usual.

I just don't see what good can come from this. It seems like a waste of time and effort and in the mean time all you're risking is landing yourself in jail where you can be around even more Nazi's and achieve zero campaigning.

A year or so ago I'd be cheering this on as a wonderful act, but now I just don't see any good coming from this.

If it happens once, maybe, but if you get threatened on the phone, you have to look over your shoulders when you go have a drink with friends and your marches are extremely stressful because they're always met with violent counterprotests? I'm sure you'll be starting to think twice wether it's all worth it.

[Craig_J]

If it happens once, maybe, but if you get threatened on the phone, you have to look over your shoulders when you go have a drink with friends and your marches are extremely stressful because they're always met with violent counterprotests? I'm sure you'll be starting to think twice wether it's all worth it.

Maybe so, but a fasicst could easily do it to anyone of us.

Also, as much I despise the views of facists I think it's well worth noting that most (don't know why I'm saying most, it's more than likely ALL) facists aren't rational what so ever. The reason they've come to their beliefs isn't because of deep thought about facts or they would't of arrived to have that ideology. The main culrpits are generally the scare mongering and extrmeley racialist righ-wing media who are brainwashing them to hold these beliefs. I still think more action should be taken against the core of capitalism which perpetuates such beliefs rather than attacking the house of one fascist.

[Sasha]

the fash already do it to us, they will always do it to us, we could be handing out daisy's all day long and they would still do it to us, we are just fighting fire with fire...

[Tim Cornelis]

Wait, is this why Crixus self-banned?


It's obviously an extremely symptomatic solution, if you can even call it a solution.
I don't really see this being effective in any way. They have wrecked some fascist's home, yeah so? Is this gonna destroy fascism? Is this a great act of anti-fascism?

Let's look at this for what it is, a nazi's house getting wrecked, which is not something to cry about, but it isn't something that will get real results.

The effect is getting fascists scared associating as such. It plants a psychological seed.


Its terrorism in the strictest sense of the word, and just as cops show up in your doorstep, talk to your friends and family, even will resort to violence to make you refrain from activism "terrorising" Nazi's is highly effective. It makes being an active Nazi just nit worth it. But its an extreme tactic that should only be used against the most influential, top organizing Nazi's, and one best used in sillence, in the dark.

It may be more effective against insignificant members to permeate in their circles the idea it can be anyone being next, and most prominent members as this garners most attention. However, it should not be overdone for the potential of escalation.


Not taking credit for it, or better yet, not even acknowledging that it happened would be best. Why should he have the satisfaction of knowing why his property was trashed or which group was responsible? He should be made to feel as powerless as possible. Funny regardless though.

If you don't take credit they can't be sure of the antifascist motive.


Oh don't get me wrong, it IS what they deserve. But it's not going to do any good what so ever.

If a fascist came and smashed up your place (as hey have done, and much worse, to many leftiss) would you all of a sudden give up communism? Give up your leftist principles? Stop campaigning based on the actions of those?

A significant part of the 'enforcers' of fascists join because of group cohesion and don't think it's worth getting smacked down every where they go, so militant antifascism may reduce the number of active fascists to the committed ideologues.

Obviously, in the Netherlands just to name an example, this tactic wouldn't do much good. But the little I know about Sweden, as psycho also already mentioned, is that the fascists are relatively violent. These tactics of 'terrorism' should be used in such countries (e.g. Greece, Russia), though on the other hand it may escalate the conflict if the fascist movement is already too large.

[Sasha]

Wait, is this why Crixus self-banned?


nah, he took issue with that we allow people to express opposition to animal-testing... but lets just not speak of the tool no more.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

good action. makes me laugh to read all those "great" analysis from all knowing internet-lefties here commenting on how this is ineffective or pointless. If you would have been involved in any sort of activism, you wouldn't talk such poo-poo.

[Craig_J]

the fash already do it to us, they will always do it to us, we could be handing out daisy's all day long and they would still do it to us, we are just fighting fire with fire...

It's just stooping to their level.

Can just see this being the best way of comabtting fascism ever when they target the wrong person's house. Everyone will be peforming raised fists all over the shot in celebration of what we've done.

Or when we smash up a fascits house and they're kid comes back to see their house is destroyed and their father exclaims that the leftists are the reason they no longer have a home. That kid who's already going to be brainwashed enough will surelly not grow up hating them for what they did.

Of course these are extreme scenario's. The most likely one is that nobody will give a $#!£ and the "acitivst" will go to prison.

[Craig_J]

Wait, is this why Crixus self-banned?



The effect is getting fascists scared associating as such. It plants a psychological seed.



It may be more effective against insignificant members to permeate in their circles the idea it can be anyone being next, and most prominent members as this garners most attention. However, it should not be overdone for the potential of escalation.



If you don't take credit they can't be sure of the antifascist motive.



A significant part of the 'enforcers' of fascists join because of group cohesion and don't think it's worth getting smacked down every where they go, so militant antifascism may reduce the number of active fascists to the committed ideologues.

Obviously, in the Netherlands just to name an example, this tactic wouldn't do much good. But the little I know about Sweden, as psycho also already mentioned, is that the fascists are relatively violent. These tactics of 'terrorism' should be used in such countries (e.g. Greece, Russia), though on the other hand it may escalate the conflict if the fascist movement is already too large.

Actually, tha part has won me over as I can see the need for it in those areas out of absoloute neccesity as in Greece the Golden Dawn or what ever they're called are being very oppresive and even raping people and obviously that needs to kind of backlash. But, I still don't like the idea of posting in on youtube as this will just encourage people to do it in areas, like where I live in the UK where it isn't really that bad apart from the odd EDL march or so. By seeing this on yotuube people will think that merley by doing this they're immeditatley some kind of vanguard revolotionary and if this happened in the UK it really would lower public opinion of lefitss (more so than it already is).

When I was 15 I saw a 'Vote BNP' thing on someone's window with lots of union jacks everywhere. I did actually think then of throwing a brick through the window or posting a threatning letter through the letter box but decided not to as A) They don't deserve the attention and B) They may assume it was a non-British person doing it thereby strengthening their resolve or leading to them verbally or physcially abusing a ethnic minority later on.

[Sasha]

a sustained campaign is something else than throwing a brick to a window or posting a threating letter, these kind of actions need to happen as a tactic in a wider campaign amids a pluformity of tactics. which is also my main criticisms of RF, they focus to much on these kind of actions and not enough on the other necessary stuff.
these kind of actions, targeting the leadership, the enablers, the financiers should happen in tandem with mass blockades of demonstrations, investigative journalism, outreach towards both immigrant communities and the young angry white youth, propaganda, education on schools etc etc.

may i, since your from the UK, encourage you to watch the movie "fighting talk" on youtube and if your interested read the books "the 43 group", "no retreat" and "beating the fascists"?

[Orange Juche]

It's childish and ignites them to be that much more pissed at reds and do the same or worse.

[TiberiusGracchus]

I'm sure the RF are critically evaluating their strategies.

But as far as I know these methods have been effective in destroying fascist groups. Swedish cities with RF-activity have low fascist activity, even though several of these cities have been sort of fascists stronghold earlier.

Sure, the fascists who get their home vandalized and live in fear of attacks sure won't be changing their minds about antifascists. But that's not the point. The point is to get them to stop being active fascists. Who cares if they are still fascists in their private lives, as long as they don't feel like being organized any more.


However it seems now a general tendency in Sweden that fascists activity, partly because of antifacsist activity, is moving to the neglected rural areas where there's no organized left at all. This is a potentially dangerous development that we need to find ways to counter.

[aty]

a sustained campaign is something else than throwing a brick to a window or posting a threating letter, these kind of actions need to happen as a tactic in a wider campaign amids a pluformity of tactics. which is also my main criticisms of RF, they focus to much on these kind of actions and not enough on the other necessary stuff.
these kind of actions, targeting the leadership, the enablers, the financiers should happen in tandem with mass blockades of demonstrations, investigative journalism, outreach towards both immigrant communities and the young angry white youth, propaganda, education on schools etc etc.

But, RF combines all of these things actually...maybe not under RFs own name but...

In the text in the video it says the fascists will stop being attacked when they stop trying to split the working class.

[Anarchist Skinhead]

Reading this post makes me depressed. I will stop right now. Level of pathetic of some of the posters is staggering. :( Especially commenting such actions with words like "childish".
and to Craig J.- I suggest you educate yourself a bit WHY there is no serious far-right problem in UK these days. That definitely didn't happen because people "didn't give them attention" or similar bollocks. Titles recommended by psycho are a way forward.

[An archist]

It's just stooping to their level.

Can just see this being the best way of comabtting fascism ever when they target the wrong person's house. Everyone will be peforming raised fists all over the shot in celebration of what we've done.

Or when we smash up a fascits house and they're kid comes back to see their house is destroyed and their father exclaims that the leftists are the reason they no longer have a home. That kid who's already going to be brainwashed enough will surelly not grow up hating them for what they did.

Of course these are extreme scenario's. The most likely one is that nobody will give a $#!£ and the "acitivst" will go to prison.

A small story.
A few years ago, in my hometown, a place was squatted. The squatters organized bar nights, served cheap vegan food, showed movies, held discussions, that sort of things.
They didn't realise however that they had squatted a place just 2 streets away from a bar where the fascist students (NSV) liked to hang out.
After a while, the windows of the squat got smashed, several nights a week.
This all continued until one night the NSV held a drinking night at their bar, openly publicised on their website.
That night, some fascists after leaving the bar, had a lively discussion with masked persons, just before entering their homes.
News spread and so a few brave and very drunk students went from their bar to the squat, armed with table legs. They learned a good life lesson that night: drunk people over-estimate their ability to fight properly.

After that night, the squat didn't get any more nightly visits.

[The-Anarcho-Syndicalist]

Actually, the nazis are often worse. When they find where you live there might come a bullet through your window. Its a hell of a luck that they are too stupid to find us...

In Sweden we often use the idea of that if people dont feel safe in their own homes they wont feel safe at all. Thats why RF and AFA burns their cars and destroys their flats. It has worked before

[The Idler]

There are plenty of tactics fascists use to physically persecute people's personal safety including because of their beliefs and to shut down discussion. It doesn't mean socialists should use the same tactics, which often have the effect of stiffening resolve of both groups involved.

[blake 3:17]

I have found that fascists and Nazis do respond to intimidation tactics by 1) getting freaked out scared and 2) going batshit crazy and doing stupid stuff that either gets beat up or thrown in jail.

[aty]

In May this year 6-8 nazis attacked the home of a socialist here in Sweden with batons and axes trying to get inside, probably in a retaliation attack.
When the attack started the two socialists inside jumped out of the balcony armed with knifes, the 2 antifascists confronted the group of nazis with knifes and it ended with a 29 year old nazi got stabbed in his chest and suffered life-threathening injuries.

The two socialists was only brused a little bit, and the 19 year old who lived in the apartment got charged for attempted murder only because he was defending himself against an armed group trying to hurt him!

Some pictures from the trial this weekend, the nazis did not show up to support their comrade...only socialists present in the court room...
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/svtsormland/hotfullt-vid-rattegang

[Comrade Jacob]

The only real way to destroy fascism as a moment is to destroy the fascists themselves.

[synthesis]

Still better than RAAN.