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Craig_J
17th May 2013, 20:57
Hello all, I'm sure you've all heard this analogy of communism from capitalists:


An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. The class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little ...

The second Test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F. The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else. All failed to their great surprise and the professor told them that socialism would ultimately fail because the harder to succeed the greater the reward but when a government takes all the reward away; no one will try or succeed.


Well on a Tottenham Hotspur FC forum an arugment about Communism started (don't ask how!) and this analogy was used by someone. But a member of the 'Glory Glory' forum came up with an analogy of capitalism along similar lines which I think needs credit as it's a brilliant way to argue against those who use it.


A professor teaching a two-term course hires a large lecture hall. He randomly selects four or five students and puts them at the front of the class. He then sits everyone else increasing distances away from him, with the vast majority of the class seated at the very end of the hall. He forbids people to move from their seats.

He then whispers the answers to the first test in a voice just loud enough for the front few students to hear, before handing everyone the test and walking away.

He comes back and finds, somewhat inevitably, that the randomly selected ones in the front who heard what he said did much better than the ones at the back. He then laughs and fails everyone sitting behind the first few students, explaining that if only they worked harder to hear what he had to say they'd have done better.

He then hands the answers for the rest of the term's exams to the front row of students, explaining that they were 'strivers' and 'knowledge seekers', and thus deserved to be rewarded for their efforts, while castigating the ones further back as 'shirkers' and lazy, idle failures too uninterested to dig themselves out of the academic hole they are in. Finally, he implements an examination system that gives the people in the front (excluding the randomly selected 'strivers', who already have the exam answers) easy exams, the people behind them moderately tough exams, and the ones at the very back (Again, the majority) brutally hard exams.

He then lectures for the rest of the term in a whisper just loud enough to be heard by the front few rows.

At the end of the term, he checks the grades of everyone in class after they've gone through his implemented exam system. The ones with high grades are allowed to move to the front for the second term, and the ones with low grades are moved further back. He finds that most of the people with high grades are the people who were in front anyway, and most of the people in the back were the people who were in the back all along. He then explains that capitalism works by concentrating all the wealth and power in the hands of a very small segment of the population while forcing the vast majority of people to work long, hard hours for relatively tiny amounts of money and with little to no prospect of ever moving up because of the manifold inherent disadvantages stacked against them. Those that are in front, stay in front, and those at the back, stay in the back producing profits for the front.

link to the thread here:

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php?4303-Will-Communism-Ever-Work/page2

Questionable
17th May 2013, 21:25
I guess it's an interesting analogy for rhetorical purposes, but it doesn't really bring us to a critique of capitalism beyond "The game is rigged."

A better analogy would be if the professor set up a system where half of the class had As, and the other half had Fs. The professor informs the class that the students who are failing can gain extra points by assisting the succeeding students in their projects, however, the succeeding students will also get to keep a large percentage of the failing students' grades when they help them, so small that most of them won't be able to crawl above a C by the end of the semester, just enough to pass.

After a while, a competition sets in among the A students. Some negotiate with the professor to offer more points to people who assist them; others skim even more points off of their partners contributions, thus bolstering their own grades. After a while, some of the successful students start declining into the failing grade range, and are forced to go work for their peers like the failing students. This continues until it gets to the point where there are 1-3 students with As who are skimming points off the rest of the students who are doing their projects for them.

Before long the remaining A students have so many of their peers working for them that they no longer need do anything except sit back and watch. They keep their high grades, while the more numerous part of the class wavers around a C.

That, I think, would be a better analogy of capitalism.

Sidagma
17th May 2013, 21:55
There's actually not a need for an analogy in order to demonstrate what capitalist education looks like; the factors tying economic class to academic performance are extensive and well documented, to the point that typing "economic class a" into google autofilled with "economic class and education."

In the United States, at least, most poor people (like myself) can't afford to go to college. Schools are funded by property taxes, meaning that schools in richer areas are funded better than schools that poor kids go to. Rich kids can afford tutors. Rich kids are more likely to get into colleges that their parents went to, even if their own academic performance is terrible. Etc. The result is that rich kids go to prestigious universities while poor kids go to community colleges, if even that. Meanwhile, diplomas from "third world" universities are almost completely useless upon arriving in the USA.

The original copypasta, ironically, presupposes that education as it stands now is some sort of meritocracy that's unaffected by material class conditions.

Which, is so demonstrably untrue that I don't really have much else to say in response.

Blake's Baby
17th May 2013, 22:09
It's not about education, it's an analogy for the entire capitalist system.

Desy
17th May 2013, 22:25
The anology of communism is taking place under the bourgeois educational system. O.o

I get really irritated when I see this post on the 'ol book of faces', because people are missing the whole message of communism.

liberlict
18th May 2013, 06:36
I don't really think that this analogy properly applies to communism as it's idealized. There wouldn't be any real need for comparative grading in communism. Students would just learn at their own pace, and take a competency test to determine their skills. People wouldn't be competitive the way they are now, because there wouldn't be any pressure on you as there is in schools today.

Blake's Baby
18th May 2013, 10:30
It's not about education, it's an analogy for the entire communist project.

Luís Henrique
18th May 2013, 11:02
It's not about education, it's an analogy for the entire communist project.

Indeed.

And that is the reason we shouldn't try and find out a school analogy for capitalism; production and distribution are not learning and grading.

Instead of finding a competing analogy, we should strive to make holes in the original analogy and make it sinks as it deserves.

Luís Henrique

liberlict
2nd July 2013, 13:04
It's not about education, it's an analogy for the entire capitalist system.

Reminds me of the old soviet joke--"we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us" lolza

liberlict
2nd July 2013, 13:08
Instead of finding a competing analogy, we should strive to make holes in the original analogy and make it sinks as it deserves.



Have any of these 'holes' been forthcoming?

As far as I'm concerned, it just gets down to communism = no incentives.

Jimmie Higgins
2nd July 2013, 13:18
Have any of these 'holes' been forthcoming?

As far as I'm concerned, it just gets down to communism = no incentives.

The holes are that no one starves if they get a B and in theory everyone can "work hard" on a test and get ahead whereas working hard under capitalism matters less than your position in the productive process.

The whole premise is that wages are some sort of award based on merit (like grades), not a system of exploitation.

Fourth Internationalist
2nd July 2013, 13:35
I don't understand how a government takes away everything in the first analogy if it's communism...

Jimmie Higgins
2nd July 2013, 13:58
There is a real-life anaology involving testing and people who probably had much more "communist-like" relations than modern-day students. When Jesuit priests in the New World wanted to test the intelligence of children in a Iriquoi community, they gathered them up and gave them each a set of questions to answer. Immediately the children began to ask eachother questions and solve the problems together. When the Jesuits tried to stop them, the children asked, "why, don't you want the right answers - we'll have a better chance of finding them if we work together".

ThatGuy
2nd July 2013, 14:13
As Questionable said the capitalist analogy only says that the game is rigged, it can't really prove it nor is it really a critique on how individuals owning what they make is a bad system.

ÑóẊîöʼn
2nd July 2013, 14:16
As Questionable said the capitalist analogy only says that the game is rigged, it can't really prove it nor is it really a critique on how individuals owning what they make is a bad system.

Individuals "owning what they make" is hardly guaranteed under capitalism. Factory workers don't own what they make, for a start.

Flying Purple People Eater
2nd July 2013, 14:23
They forget to mention that the teacher is also a student in disguise who forges their name onto all of the papers and hands them in for him/herself. That would make for at least a little more honest shit analogy.

ThatGuy
2nd July 2013, 16:02
They forget to mention that the teacher is also a student in disguise who forges their name onto all of the papers and hands them in for him/herself. That would make for at least a little more honest shit analogy.

Actually, true. You can't show how capitalism is bad by a professor, that is using an unjust central plan.

liberlict
28th July 2013, 05:06
The holes are that no one starves if they get a B and in theory everyone can "work hard" on a test and get ahead whereas working hard under capitalism matters less than your position in the productive process.

The whole premise is that wages are some sort of award based on merit (like grades), not a system of exploitation.

What might we have in place instead of wages though? Couldn't we introduce something that doesn't exploit workers like 'labor vouchers' or something? There needs to be some way to reward people for effort, even if it's not money.

BIXX
29th July 2013, 08:45
Have any of these 'holes' been forthcoming?

As far as I'm concerned, it just gets down to communism = no incentives.

Well prove it. I hear people make this claim all the time but they never give any proof.

What I find particularly insane is people hold competition to be the greatest thing ever. Competition isn't always right, it's just divided.

Bakunin said that the collective mind is smarter than the smartest individual mind.

ÑóẊîöʼn
30th July 2013, 02:25
What might we have in place instead of wages though? Couldn't we introduce something that doesn't exploit workers like 'labor vouchers' or something? There needs to be some way to reward people for effort, even if it's not money.

There are plenty of other reasons for putting effort into things. It could be because one enjoys or is interested in the activity; I'm interested in space exploration, so I have an intrinsic reason to work hard if I were to enter that field.

Since most people don't like living under massive piles of their own filth, things like cleaning the streets and whatnot would be done not because people are paid to do so (and in any case, trash collectors and cleaners don't earn that much anyway), but because people actually give a shit about the communities that they're part of. If hardly anyone enjoys doing the actual work, then that right there is a driving incentive to magnify the labour power of cleaning jobs through technology. More people would probably be more interested in robotics than cleaning, but that doesn't mean that cleaning would be neglected - there's bound to be someone with the bright idea of completely automating street sweeper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_sweeper) machines.

Zutroy
30th July 2013, 19:04
I don't understand how a government takes away everything in the first analogy if it's communism...

I do. It's because it's an analogy concocted by someone who doesn't actually know anything about communist theory.