Body Image

[Le Libérer]

People care about body size because we have created these invisible structures like capitalism, misogyny, and colonialism that teach us what bodies are good and what bodies are bad. The problem is, they’re wrong.

I thought I had posted about my friend and Def Jam Poet, Sonja's project, "The body is not an apology" but after searching the archives I didnt find it. So I am posting it now.

Body image is a motherfucker. It can haunt anyone, but it doesnt have to.


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And Women Deserve Better.
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[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

I appreciate this may just be echoing other posts about body image etc but I thought this piece was interesting and I think it's good to get a positive perspective from someone that's involved in that industry that can lead women to feel insecure re their bodies.

When H&M hired a "plus-size" model to show off the range of sizes for its beachwear, the ad campaign caused much discussion. Model Jennie Runk says it's time we stopped obsessing about size.

I had no idea that my H&M beachwear campaign would receive so much publicity. I'm the quiet type who reads books, plays video games, and might be a little too obsessed with her cat.
So, suddenly having a large amount of publicity was an awkward surprise at first. I found it strange that people made such a fuss about how my body looks in a bikini, since I don't usually give it much thought.
When my Facebook fan page gained about 2,000 new likes in 24 hours, I decided to use the attention as an opportunity to make the world a little nicer by promoting confidence. I've since been receiving lots of messages from fans, expressing gratitude.
Some even told me that my confidence has inspired them to try on a bikini for the first time in years. This is exactly the kind of thing I've always wanted to accomplish, showing women that it's OK to be confident even if you're not the popular notion of "perfect".
This message is especially important for teenage girls. Being a teenage girl is incredibly difficult. They need all the help and support they can get.
When our bodies change and we all start to look totally different, we simultaneously begin feeling pressured to look exactly the same. This is an impossible goal to achieve and I wish I had known that when I was 13. At 5ft 9in and a US size eight (usually either a UK 10 or 12), I envied the girls whose boyfriends could pick them up and carry them on their shoulders.
Gym class was a nightmare. While the thin girls were wearing shorts, I was wearing sweat pants because my thighs were the size of their waists, and those pants were embarrassingly short because I was taller than the average adult, but still shopped at (pre-teen clothing store) Limited Too.
I also had thick, curly hair that only drew more attention to me, hiding behind my braces and beige, wire-rimmed glasses. On top of all this I've always been rather clumsy, so to say that my adolescence was awkward is an understatement.
Having finally survived it, I feel compelled to show girls who are going through the same thing that it's acceptable to be different. You will grow out of this awkwardness fabulously. Just focus on being the best possible version of yourself and quit worrying about your thighs, there's nothing wrong with them.
After all, I never thought of myself as model material but then I was discovered at a Petsmart, while volunteering in my too-short sweat pants no less.
I was given the option to lose weight and try to maintain a size four (a UK six or eight), or to gain a little - maintain a size 10 (a UK 12 or 14) - and start a career as a plus-size model. I knew my body was never meant to be a size four, so I went with plus.
People assume "plus" equates to fat, which in turn equates to ugly. This is completely absurd because many women who are considered plus-sized are actually in line with the American national average, or a US size 12/14 (somewhere between a UK size 14-18).
I can't argue that some styles look better on one size than another.
While the idea of separating women into size categories seems stigmatising, clothing companies do this in order to offer their customers exactly what they're looking for, making it easier for people of all sizes to find clothes that fit their bodies as well as their own unique stylistic expression.
The only problem is the negative connotations that remain stubbornly attached to the term "plus-size". There shouldn't be anything negative about being the same size as the average American woman, or even being a little bigger. Some women are perfectly healthy at a size 16 (a UK 18 or 20).
There are also negative connotations associated with thinness. Just as bigger women get called fat or chunky, thin women get called gangly or bony.
There's no need to glamorise one body type and slam another. We need to stop this absurd hatred towards bodies for being different sizes. It doesn't help anyone and it's getting old.

Jennie Runk, 24, spent her childhood in Georgia and her adolescence in Missouri. She was discovered in 2000 and had her first photo shoot in 2001.
After studying writing at Stephens College in Columbia, Missouri, she relocated to New York - with her cat - to pursue her modelling career in 2011.
At a US size 14 (or a UK size 16), she is considered "plus-size" for fashion work.

(BBC Magazine)

[Domela Nieuwenhuis]

Ridiculous how she is a plus-size model!

She's friggin' normal-size!
Alienated asswipes there in the fashion-industry...

She beautiful too, btw!

[Vanguard1917]

Mainstream culture and science send mixed messages to people. On the one hand, we're told that we're all obsessed with body image and need to worry less about our weight. On the one hand, apparently we're in the grip of a obesity epidemic and need to all slim down.

[Le Libérer]

If you don't mind, I would like to combine it with the other thread that was just created on body image and change the name of the thread to "Body Image" or something like that.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Ok, so I saw some photos of her.

Other than saying that she's a very attractive woman (seriously, she's just my type), I would just like to say:

That woman is NOT 'plus-sized'. That is a perfectly healthy weight for perfectly healthy woman of her age. She is in no way 'obese' or 'fat'.

Seriously, the supermodel aesthetic and the way our society judges a woman's body is horrendous. It forces women to starve themselves in order to fit some sort of arbitrary body type that is almost impossible to obtain.

Jennie is beautiful just as she is. She doesn't need to change a thing.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I have seen some genuinely plus-sized models, but she is just normal size. And seriously beautiful. Why is that causing an outrage? She is just like any other model, except she's actually attractive because she doesn't look like a rake or as fake as most of the size zero brigade. She looks healthy, and what's more attractive than that? Certainly not some rake you can just hang clothes off!

[Quail]

I have seen some genuinely plus-sized models, but she is just normal size. And seriously beautiful. Why is that causing an outrage? She is just like any other model, except she's actually attractive because she doesn't look like a rake or as fake as most of the size zero brigade. She looks healthy, and what's more attractive than that? Certainly not some rake you can just hang clothes off!

I appreciate the sentiment behind this but at the same time I don't think it's good to describe underweight women as "some rake you can just hang clothes off." If you flipped that around to make it apply to someone who was overweight, I don't think it would sound so acceptable. Besides, we shouldn't judge the value of a body type on how attractive you find it.

[BAMslam15]

I hope you guys heard of Mike Jeffries, the CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch? That jerk is meeting up with Benjamin O'Keefe to talk about his (Benjamin's) struggle with his weight and how he felt outcasted because of the company's models. Goes to show that we can fight this notion that we need washboard abs and perfect body that came from capitalism's need for more money and power.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I appreciate the sentiment behind this but at the same time I don't think it's good to describe underweight women as "some rake you can just hang clothes off." If you flipped that around to make it apply to someone who was overweight, I don't think it would sound so acceptable. Besides, we shouldn't judge the value of a body type on how attractive you find it.

It was a bit of a flippant mark, sorry if it offended. My point was more that, whilst some overweight people can project a healthy body image, i'm not sure that the 'size zero model' image is anything healthy to project individually, or onto impressionable young people either. So i'm not sure it's something that can (or that I would personally) flip around. It was more about projecting a healthy body image than how attractive I personally find it.

[Quail]

I don't think a size zero body is a healthy size to promote to young people, but that doesn't mean you should make rude comments about people who are underweight. I think the important thing to note is that for most people, a tiny size zero frame is unattainable, as is flawless skin and the shapes people in photographs are airbrushed into.

I think there is a lot of pressure to be a certain shape, but I don't think we should be shaming people with the kind of unattainable "perfect" figure, because chances are, those people also feel under pressure to look a certain way and almost certainly feel bad about their bodies too. Surely the emphasis should be on exposing beauty standards as unrealistic, rejecting the idea of a "perfect" or even and "acceptable" body and learning to appreciate yourself not as a body, a face, an object but as a human being.

I can't speak for everyone, but I also think body image issues are a hell of a lot more complex than just "there are loads of unrealistically skinny women who impressionable teenage girls look up to, so teenage girls are all going to have terrible body image." I think it plays a part, but it's not the whole picture. As well as pressure to look a certain way, there are loads of other pressures as a teenager, such as doing well in the ridiculous number of exams teenagers have to do, dealing wih friendships and cliques, experimenting with sex and relationships. I think when you have pressure coming at you from all corners and things start to feel out of control, it's easy to focus on something like weight or the way you look, because it's something you can change, something you can do something about. I've spent the past seven years dealing with various forms of eating disorders (although I'm mostly better now), and despite a lot of that being about feeling fat and wanting to lose weight, I've never been into celebrities or fashion and I realise now that the fat on my body is more a metaphor, for want of a better word, for all the feelings that I can't control, so if I lose that fat my problems, feelings, stress, etc., will go away. I'm not saying it's like that for everyone, because obviously not everyone has an eating disorder (and not everyone experiences eating disorders in the same way). I'm just trying to demonstrate that there are a whole load of interlinking issues that contribute to worries about body image that young people may have.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

@Quail

It sucks to be a teenager, that much is true. 'Specially if you grew up in the U.S. in the post-Columbine era (like me)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

[QUOTE=Quail;2620962]I don't think a size zero body is a healthy size to promote to young people, but that doesn't mean you should make rude comments about people who are underweight. I think the important thing to note is that for most people, a tiny size zero frame is unattainable, as is flawless skin and the shapes people in photographs are airbrushed into.

I wouldn't say I was being particularly rude. In any case, I wouldn't say these people have 'unattainable' figures in the sense of perfection. Rather, a lot of it is camerawork (i.e for hair, make-up and covering up blemishes/making people look 'more' perfect) mixed with a dose of eating disorder, or at least unhealthy eating habits.


I think there is a lot of pressure to be a certain shape, but I don't think we should be shaming people with the kind of unattainable "perfect" figure, because chances are, those people also feel under pressure to look a certain way and almost certainly feel bad about their bodies too. Surely the emphasis should be on exposing beauty standards as unrealistic, rejecting the idea of a "perfect" or even and "acceptable" body and learning to appreciate yourself not as a body, a face, an object but as a human being.

Undoubtedly there's a lot of pressure on size zero models; that's the whole point - we should be exposing the body figure itself not as something that is 'perfection yet unattainable for normal people', but something that actually shouldn't be more desirable than being normal size, plus size or any other manner of good health. And even if someone isn't a 'healthy' weight, then we should promote confidence and having a positive self-image above being some level of perceived aesthetic perfection.


I can't speak for everyone, but I also think body image issues are a hell of a lot more complex than just "there are loads of unrealistically skinny women who impressionable teenage girls look up to, so teenage girls are all going to have terrible body image." I think it plays a part, but it's not the whole picture. As well as pressure to look a certain way, there are loads of other pressures as a teenager, such as doing well in the ridiculous number of exams teenagers have to do, dealing wih friendships and cliques, experimenting with sex and relationships.

True but i'm not sure why this is relevant. Everyone has pressure to do with school, forming friendships, sex and the usual social problems that teenagers go through.



I think when you have pressure coming at you from all corners and things start to feel out of control, it's easy to focus on something like weight or the way you look, because it's something you can change, something you can do something about. I've spent the past seven years dealing with various forms of eating disorders (although I'm mostly better now), and despite a lot of that being about feeling fat and wanting to lose weight, I've never been into celebrities or fashion and I realise now that the fat on my body is more a metaphor, for want of a better word, for all the feelings that I can't control, so if I lose that fat my problems, feelings, stress, etc., will go away. I'm not saying it's like that for everyone, because obviously not everyone has an eating disorder (and not everyone experiences eating disorders in the same way). I'm just trying to demonstrate that there are a whole load of interlinking issues that contribute to worries about body image that young people may have.

I would agree with all of this, you're spot on. I've always been very self-focused too and have struggled with body image. It's definitely something that can become an outward focus masking other social issues, and that's wrong.

[Vanilla]

A lot of girls I know think that they are fat, even though they're well within the healthy weight range. On the other hand, I know some thin girls who dislike their body because they think they're too skinny. Women only see other women portrayed as very thin for the most part, like models and most actresses. And then those that do have bodies like models are told that they're not normal.

[Quail]

True but i'm not sure why this is relevant. Everyone has pressure to do with school, forming friendships, sex and the usual social problems that teenagers go through.

I would agree with all of this, you're spot on. I've always been very self-focused too and have struggled with body image. It's definitely something that can become an outward focus masking other social issues, and that's wrong.

I was tired and rambling somewhat, but I guess my point was just that the pressure to have a certain body type is just one of many pressures on young women, and I think all the expectations that are piled on young women are interlinked. For example, there's a pressure to look attractive for men because the overall message in society is that part of a woman's purpose is to look pretty for men, so then that also ties into body image. I know both women who have starved themselves to look good, and women who have starved themselves to become less attractive.

(This isn't really aimed at you personally, just some thoughts.) I called you out on the remark about skinny women because in my opinion the backlash against size zero resulted in quite a derogatory attitude towards smaller bodies. There were so many (for example) facebook groups celebrating "curvy" figures, often by putting down women who don't have curves. I also think it's seen as more acceptable to comment on someone's body if they're very thin than if they're very overweight. Most people would think a comment to the tune of, "Wow, you're looking fat today, have you been eating non-stop lately?" is completely unacceptable, but somehow it's pretty much okay for people to say something like, "Wow, you're looking thin today, haven't you been eating much lately?" Really, it's not okay to comment on someone's body shape at all, and I also don't think it's okay to promote the idea that loving and celebrating your body is only for the "real" women with curves.

I'm still rambling, ack. But anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that a positive body image is something everyone should be able to enjoy, so all bodies, healthy or otherwise, deserve better than to be derided with flippant comments.

[Clarksist]

While the standard is a problem, I feel like talking about body image usually puts all of the blame on certain institutions (ones that are usually guilty of a lot of the problem) but never seem to admit that beauty as it is perceived has a lot of value.

What I mean to say is, I think that physical beauty is something worth spending time on and giving it its due. Just for clarification, I'm not advocating the specific standard popularized by bourgeois media, but I worry that too often this kind of discussion fails to recognize that physical beauty is something wonderful to behold and in that way it is a socially positive act to pursue physical beauty. At least within reason.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

(This isn't really aimed at you personally, just some thoughts.) I called you out on the remark about skinny women because in my opinion the backlash against size zero resulted in quite a derogatory attitude towards smaller bodies. There were so many (for example) facebook groups celebrating "curvy" figures, often by putting down women who don't have curves. I also think it's seen as more acceptable to comment on someone's body if they're very thin than if they're very overweight. Most people would think a comment to the tune of, "Wow, you're looking fat today, have you been eating non-stop lately?" is completely unacceptable, but somehow it's pretty much okay for people to say something like, "Wow, you're looking thin today, haven't you been eating much lately?" Really, it's not okay to comment on someone's body shape at all, and I also don't think it's okay to promote the idea that loving and celebrating your body is only for the "real" women with curves.

I'm still rambling, ack. But anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that a positive body image is something everyone should be able to enjoy, so all bodies, healthy or otherwise, deserve better than to be derided with flippant comments.

I agree, I wasn't really aiming my comments carte blanche at skinny people, but specifically those who are promoted as models (Excuse the pun) of health and well-being, when really they have hugely unhealthy dietary regimens to become and maintain size-zero body size.

I like to celebrate skinny girls, curvy girls, top heavy girls and (especially..) bottom heavy girls; I admire guys that have slim, toned bodies, guys who have crafted huge, muscular bodies and guys who just have relatively average bodies and take care of themselves or whatever. My point wasn't to direct any criticism at someone for having a particular body type; rather, it's a criticism of the propaganda that pervades our society that certain unhealthy ways of living (which result in certain body types) are pushed and contribute to other people becoming insecure about their body image.