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Nathan W
14th May 2013, 04:26
Hi all, I'm completely new here. I was referred to this site by my friend Mitchell C. I've starting exploring the ideas of communism, and by and large they make a lot of sense to me. However, I have a few questions about communism, one of which I will address here. This point comes up a lot in discussions with other people: in a communist system, with no private property and every person receiving what they need to survive, what is the motivation for production? An altruistic "work for the good of society" sounds nice, but would that work in practice? Sorry if this is a stupid question; like I said, I'm new here!

tuwix
14th May 2013, 08:28
And this is exactly why communism is to be introduced when the machines will do over 95% of jobs.
And how the rest will "work for the good of society"? Exactly in the same way as charities. There are volunteers who are happy to help people for free. Besides there many people with ADHD who must do anything regardless is it paid or not. They will be volunteers for a new system.

A Revolutionary Tool
14th May 2013, 08:37
And this is exactly why communism is to be introduced when the machines will do over 95% of jobs.
And how the rest will "work for the good of society"? Exactly in the same way as charities. There are volunteers who are happy to help people for free. Besides there many people with ADHD who must do anything regardless is it paid or not. They will be volunteers for a new system.
What?

But basically I think we'll all understand that things need to be produced therefore there needs to be producers. I mean when people start needing food and have perfectly good means to grow that food they will probably work so that they can have food. Maybe in communist society we'll all get so lazy that we'll stop producing everything except for like a bare minimum. I really don't think that will happen though and if it did then I'd be okay with that. I just don't think people would get so lazy that we'd starve to death because of it or anything like that.

tuwix
14th May 2013, 08:44
Maybe in communist society we'll all get so lazy that we'll stop producing everything except for like a bare minimum.


And I think exactly it would happen, when communism was to introduced now.
I was living in the state-capitalism. And this system pretended to be workers' state. And the authorities cared only to produce a bare minimum there. The people started to hear stories from the so-called west, that workers there can buy more and live better and the system collapsed.
When there is only bare minimum, people start to think “good, past times”...

Crixus
14th May 2013, 09:01
And this is exactly why communism is to be introduced when the machines will do over 95% of jobs.
Maybe in communist society we'll all get so lazy that we'll stop producing everything except for like a bare minimum. I really don't think that will happen though and if it did then I'd be okay with that. I just don't think people would get so lazy that we'd starve to death because of it or anything like that.

Ha! :)

h1BQPV-iCkU


But seriously, there's other arguments against the free rider problem. I found this one interesting.

http://dbzer0.com/blog/how-would-anarchists-communists-deal-with-the-free-rider-problem



The greater the incentive and the easier the obfuscation, the more free riders you will get in your system until it collapses. A Capitalist system (wether a fascist, democratic or an stateless one) has such a a major issue with free riders because both conditions are high. It is easy to hide the fact that you’re lazy when your co-workers won’t care to give you away and the rewards for doing it are considerate (same pay for less work). I want to show how in a Socialist society both of these conditions are severely reduced.
Incentive

Lets say we have a factory where our potential free rider is a worker. In a Capitalist run factory he would either be getting the minimum wage (the cost to survive) due to the commoditization of labour (http://barefootbum.blogspot.com/2008/12/commoditization-of-labor.html), or in the lucky case that the worker is living in a Bourgeois nation (http://dbzer0.com/blog/the-bourgeois-nations), he’ll be getting a decent one. Whatever happens then, the worker knows that he will be getting the same wage and it will also be unlikely that any extra effort will be rewarded.
But this is not the case in a socialist mode of production. Because the workers themselves reap all the fruits of their own labour any slacking at work will come directly out of one’s “paycheck” while any extra effort will increase their reward. Because of this, in our prisoner’s dilemma abstraction of the situation, the reward one receives from cooperating with others within Socialism are approaching the reward one receives via defection. The smaller this difference between rewards becomes, the smaller the incentive for one to defect
Obfuscation

The second condition is how easy it is for a potential free rider to hide the fact that he is slacking about. Within a capitalist company, the limited management finds it very difficult to tell apart who is the slacker as opposed to who is simply slower than others (but still trying) or who is having a bad time. And since other workers generally don’t rat on their colleagues, especially when working conditions are bad, it becomes quite easy to hide the fact that you’re avoiding work, and this only gets easier in direct proportion to the size of the company.
However when you have a company where every worker’s reward is directly affected by every other contribution, suddenly people who take but do not give stand out much more. And because we’re talking about interactions between equals, workers will find it much easier to speak out and pressure the slacker socially to behave. Whereas it’s easy to hide from ( (or suckup to) the minority of the people who have the power to punish or fire you, it is not as easy to do the same when everyone you work with has a chance to notice, complain and eventually get rid of you.
Now you might have noticed that I’m mostly talking about workplaces as this is the main area where someone might try to free ride, but there’s also the case that one tries to escape working altogether. How can you tell then if your neighbour is contributing his part to the community for all the benefits he’s getting back? Like the workplace, in a small scale community ((since I generally advocate those I will argue from that point.)) it is very difficult to hide the fact that you never seem to be doing anything. Sooner or later neighbours and other member will start adding 2 and 2 together and come to the right conclusions.
We also should consider that it’s very unlikely that any person would prefer doing nothing for most of his life. I think it’s in our evolved psychology to want to feel productive to some degree. Certainly there are subcultures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chavs) where it seems as if free riding (on social benefits) is promoted, but how much that is caused by other social conditions is a big argument (ie are people free riding because they can, or are they free riding because the alternative low-paying crappy non-fulfilling jobs are a far worse option?)
Dealing with Free Riders

So I’ve argued how the number of Free Riders within an Anarchist/Communist society would be much lower than what we’ve come to expect from experience, but it’s still conceivable that a number of them will still exist. While it will be easier to be discovered and the rewards of them defecting will be marginal, some may opt for this method. Perhaps they are just that lazy or don’t care what others think etc. How will we deal with them?
Social Pressure

Humans are primarily social animals and don’t really want to live alone. When a free rider is discovered in work, his colleagues can easily make his life miserable by avoiding contact and/or being hostile, depending on how much he is slacking off. This type of pressure works even now to a significant degree and you very often see people quit from nice jobs because of office hostility. If this can work on people who can even be on the right (that is, not being lazy) then it will doubtly work on people who have to face their colleagues and their own conscience.
Outside work, the same thing can happen. Friends & Family will start urging you to do your part or abandon you if you don’t. Social contacts may become hostile and as the information spreads more and more, people around you will do the same. Imagine your grocery store clerk wordlessly giving you your necessities, imagine your postman “forgetting” to bring you the mail. You get the idea. I do not think there’s many who will want to be in this situation, especially if it’s their own fault for wanting to be lazy.
Ostracism

There is always a chance that a free rider will associate with other free riders in order to alleviate the effects of social pressure. As long as food and shelter are always provided, then one only needs to avoid social withdrawal in order to function in society and if they can find other like them, a subculture of free riders may be created that will be more resistant to social pressure.
Hopefully a future society will be a federation of communities whereas people cluster together with whoever they want to associate with. As such, each community will get to decide with whom they want to associate with and provide their communal resources. Were such a group of free riders to appear amidst the community, it would be relatively simple for the productive members of society to refuse to support them. Whereas this is impossible in a tax based welfare system, it would be fairly simple under Anarchism.
Leaving them be

It is very possible that even with the small incentive and low chance to hide, some people might still find a way to free ride in a Anarchist/Communist society and this is unavoidable in any kind of system really. For example in a taxation situation, you still have a lot of people who find a way to hide their true income or simply become invisible and only work through the black market. In the sense that these people keep using public services that the rest of us have paid for, they are free riding.
Well how about simply ignoring them? The number of such undiscovered free riders can never be large enough to be disruptive as this would mean that the method they achieve it would eventually leak to the rest of the community which would then take action. Trying to get rid of them through blanket measures is more likely to do more harm than good, as it may require authoritarian measures and the like.
So in the end you have a very small percentage of any community leeching off somehow in a way that does not incite others to do the same, we simply write it off as part of the waste. Among the people with special needs, the sick, the children and the elderly, a bunch of free riders will never make any difference.
A vulgar right-wing libertarian might here say that as long as there is any waste, as long as any person has the possibility to leech off his hard work, then the system is unacceptable. But the problem is that under Capitalism not only do the free riders abound but they also get to wield all the power. Who are they? Well, as per the initial definition, they are of course the ones who do not contribute anything by themselves and retain all the benefits of society. How do they do that? By simply turning their wealth to more wealth without having to lift a finger. They are the parasitic class who skim all the surplus value without having to break a sweat. They are the Capitalists.
Given the choice of a free rider in an Anarchist society – who can never have anything more than anyone else, nor exert any power over his comrades – and a free rider in a Capitalist society who not only gets to live the good life without even trying, but also get to be more powerful as time passes at the expense of everyone else…well I’d like to think that most can see which is the best choice.

Red Nightmare
14th May 2013, 11:44
The motivation to work would be to provide for needs and wants as the quote from the Manifesto goes "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need". Capitalists will tell you that there would be no incentive to work because it is in their interests to maintain capitalism, so of course they would want to convince you that no system other than capitalism could work.

Always Curious J
14th May 2013, 11:58
From what I've gathered a few things would be motivation to work.
1) Benefit of community- People could choose not to work but the community would turn out to be less than optimal thus motivating people to work
2) Awareness- People are and will be aware that in order to enjoy things they need to make them, therefore they realize that working would be necessary.
3) Social pressure- If most others were working, they would probably put pressure on those who don't.
Sorry it is so short but I hope you get the idea. Punishment is also an option but I as well as most tend to steer away from that.

GiantMonkeyMan
14th May 2013, 13:11
What motiates people to run a marathon? What motivates people to paint their house? What motivates people to write a novel, make their friends a cup of tea, garden, tidy their room, put out the trash? Not every incentive to labour has to be monetary and it's a lot more fulfilling if money has nothing to do with it, in my opinion.

There's also huge swathes of society either unemployed or employed doing some pointless time-waste of a job that could easily be utilised to share the burden of necessary labour. It's not as if we'd all have to spend 40 hours a week doing some shitty menial task.

SocialistFreedomFighter
14th May 2013, 13:42
in a communist system, with no private property and every person receiving what they need to survive, what is the motivation for production?
Well I'm new to this site too but I think I might have the answer to your question.
The motivation for work is the same reason people want to become doctors, nurses, pilots, architects etc. People need to work. Without work we'd most certainly find something else to do. Humans love doing things.

Jimmie Higgins
14th May 2013, 14:00
Hi all, I'm completely new here. I was referred to this site by my friend Mitchell C. I've starting exploring the ideas of communism, and by and large they make a lot of sense to me. However, I have a few questions about communism, one of which I will address here. This point comes up a lot in discussions with other people: in a communist system, with no private property and every person receiving what they need to survive, what is the motivation for production? An altruistic "work for the good of society" sounds nice, but would that work in practice? Sorry if this is a stupid question; like I said, I'm new here!

Welcome. I think this question is the result of how alienated we are in capitalism. What's our motivation now? We work so we can pay rent and squeek by, or maybe to get ahead if we have that opportunity. We aren't motivated to make good widgets or a lot of widgets because we don't then get any of the benifits of creating the better widgets, we just get paid the same wage and we don't get to decide if these are useful or desireable widgets or if we are producing them in the best way.

Under those kinds of conditions work is always a burdon, our wages always tend to only get us by. When a small shop-owner works his shop, if it's busy he gets happy because that's more money and more stability and more choices in the future for him; if you work for that shop-owner, then a busy day is just a pain in the ass and you go home more tired with nothing more to show for the extra effort.

But did anyone have to tell people in the past to go out and get food, to develop a better shelter for themselves, to make and learn to play music? People did this because it was useful to them - either necissary or because the extra effort was worth it.

If workers could organize society and production in that society, then we all get to set the priorities - both in a larger sense of what we want to see prioritized and produced as well as in workplaces and communities where we can decide the best ways of completing these tasks.

Especially at first there would be some tasks that are not really "fun" or fufilling but vital and so there may be some kind of general minimum required hours for people who are able. Even today if work was evened out, we could probably cut people's hours drastically on day one - after that I think people would rapidly eliminate or re-organize "shit-work".

Capitalism is only efficient at making profits - from a use standpoint it's totally inefficient; it creates tons of waste, misuses people's potential, makes labor simple and repetative to drive down wages while increasing exploitation. Production geared towards creating a better life for ourselves would not be alienating and I think more intergrated into our lives, rather than us having to intergrate our lives to fit around the demands of capitalism and our bosses. So maybe there is a small work requirement for some things, but it would be like: everyone in the community has to spend a certain amount of time per year working at the food-hall or resturant in order to then use and eat at that resturant anytime they want. If people find these services or products useful, then there is a level of motivation for completing them and then it's just a question of how to best democratically organize the completion of those desired tasks.

Nathan W
14th May 2013, 21:49
Thank you Jimmy, I think that sums it up nicely. Basically, people would work because they find the fruits of their labor (products, services, etc.) to be useful.

Domela Nieuwenhuis
14th May 2013, 22:31
Check out this topic (http://www.revleft.com/vb/incentive-harder-more-t179058/index.html?t=179058&highlight=incentive+work) too.

Sudsy
14th May 2013, 23:51
Besides, it is not like individuals will have to give themselves up and throw away their individuality to live in a communist society. People say that individuality is the best factor for drive in an economic system, but that makes no sense because in capitalism your "individuality" is defined by how much better off you are than someone else, so ITS NOT INDIVIDUALITY because your satisfaction complex is based on someone else's situation compared to yours.

Jimmie Higgins
15th May 2013, 08:17
Besides, it is not like individuals will have to give themselves up and throw away their individuality to live in a communist society. People say that individuality is the best factor for drive in an economic system, but that makes no sense because in capitalism your "individuality" is defined by how much better off you are than someone else, so ITS NOT INDIVIDUALITY because your satisfaction complex is based on someone else's situation compared to yours.

To thrive as induviduals, we need to collectivly take control of society so we aren't just cogs and fodder for empires. I don't know how anyone could honestly look at capitalism and say it fosters induviduality - look at a freeway during rush-hour, look at appartment complexes, look at the standard food we have to eat if we're not some rich foodie. Capitalism stiffles induviduality and so induvidualism becomes idealized and obsessed over for those who crave something other than conformity and becomes a sort of marker of status for some who have a little more mobility and freedom. Induviduality is just the condition of being an induvidual human - we're not borg - but there needs to be a way of life where people don't have power over us so that people can be free to fully develop themselves as they wish.

Beeth
16th May 2013, 03:06
If work were something outside of man, then yes, motivation would be necessary. But I believe that 'the desire to work' is an intrinsic part of every human being - man is essentially a worker, creative worker. It is in his nature to work, so motivation is redundant.

Ele'ill
16th May 2013, 03:35
If work were something outside of man, then yes, motivation would be necessary. But I believe that 'the desire to work' is an intrinsic part of every human being - man is essentially a worker, creative worker. It is in his nature to work, so motivation is redundant.

and women too but aside from archaic socialist traditions no not everyone wants to work some of us want to drink beer and play magic the gathering all day and do drugs and play with cats

evermilion
16th May 2013, 03:37
What about motivation under capitalism? It's hard to reconcile personal responsibility with the knowledge that I owe so much of my success to good fortune.

Beeth
16th May 2013, 04:49
and women too but aside from archaic socialist traditions no not everyone wants to work some of us want to drink beer and play magic the gathering all day and do drugs and play with cats

You will be bored doing that, so sooner or later you will get back to work. Like I said, man is a worker by nature, so enjoyment without work will tire him out after a while.

evermilion
16th May 2013, 05:54
You will be bored doing that, so sooner or later you will get back to work. Like I said, man is a worker by nature, so enjoyment without work will tire him out after a while.

I agree. If I spent every last one of my days playing MtG, I'd kill myself before twenty-five.

tuwix
16th May 2013, 06:34
You will be bored doing that, so sooner or later you will get back to work. Like I said, man is a worker by nature, so enjoyment without work will tire him out after a while.

Inded, but the problem is choice of job. Many people want to be poets or pilots or actors but it is hard to find many men or women who dream to work in mining or agriculture...

This is why I think it is need to wait until machines will take vast majority of jobs
to abolish money and pivate property.

Blake's Baby
17th May 2013, 22:48
There is a problem with just insisting that people want to work. I think it's true (and I think Mari3l really will find that in an un-alienating society 'work' as such has more appeal than it does now) but is it sufficient?

'From each according to their ability, to each accoring to their need' is relatively straightforward I think. it means if people don't contribute materially to society, they can't take what they want from society. Not because 'the government' or whatever stops them taking what they want, but because what they want doesn't exist.

In capitalism, if I want a sandwich, I have to go to work to earn some money to buy some bread and cheese and whatnot, and a knife, to make a sandwich - it will take a couple of hours work to obtain these things, but I can in the end make several sandwiches with what I have; or I can buy a sandwich, which is the equivalent of 15 or 20 minutes' work, and part of what I pay goes to pay the person who made the sandwich. I can't just take bread and filling and do it myself. I have to paty someone.

In communism, I can just take bread and cheese and a knife, and make it myself. But I still have to make it. I can shout 'I want a sandwich' all day, but if I don't make it I can't eat it. OK, someone else may of course make me one, but if I just sit on my arse every day shouting 'I want a sandwich' then I think pretty rapidly someone is going to say 'the bread's over there, go make yourself one, and while you're up, can I have a cheese and pickle on wholemeal, please?'

ckaihatsu
18th May 2013, 01:14
And I think exactly it would happen, when communism was to introduced now.
I was living in the state-capitalism. And this system pretended to be workers' state. And the authorities cared only to produce a bare minimum there. The people started to hear stories from the so-called west, that workers there can buy more and live better and the system collapsed.
When there is only bare minimum, people start to think “good, past times”...


This is a common pitfall that many of us fall into, when we're asked to juggle a better-minded collectivist social order, *with* the historical bureaucratic elitism (state capitalism) and its notorious shortfalls of production for common consumption.

So -- in short -- are we talking about a historical reality that was *outside* of common control, or are we talking about how it *needs* to be done, so that such a mass-graying of hope *doesn't* prevail -- ?

It's either one or the other -- if a society is paternalistic in any way then it's dispossessive of mass power, but if it's truly bottom-up and mass-empowering then it would *enable* and inherently encourage mass self-activity instead of forcing the masses to *forfeit* that same collective power.

Arakir
18th May 2013, 06:14
A communist society can have a labor credit system such as with labor vouchers. This way, theft and "making money from money" becomes impossible. The advantage of labor vouchers is that the only way to be rewarded is by working hard.

Klaatu
18th May 2013, 06:41
In my opinion, you can work as hard as you want to (and buy the things you want to buy) under communism/socialism. The thing is that you CANNOT (A) own private PROPERTY (land) nor can you (B) EXPLOIT others into working for you, paying them only very low wages (which is the epitome of capitalism --- cheating others out of their hard work for your own personal gain.)

But earning YOUR OWN way... by YOUR OWN labor... there is nothing wrong in that.

Craig_J
18th May 2013, 07:01
Under a communist system the ideal situation is that you get someone who wants to work for the betterment of society. You would want to become a doctor as you feel your helping people. Some would say this is ridiculous but the point is quite a few NHS nurses in the UK are paid next to nothing and do a very difficult job as well. Yet if money was the only motivation we'd all be dieing and there'd be no nurses around. The fact is some people have spent their whole life wanting to be a nurse for the sake of being a nurse. Same with teachers, some just want to teach despite long hours.

The motivation would be knowing your helping out society and that every task you peform is helping not just you but everyone around you, not only making you happy in the sense of fufiling a role but also by knowing community life will imrpove therefore creating a better atmosphere for you to live in.

Also, humans naturally need to work. Some people I grant you would happily not work but these people usually end up feeling bored of everything all the time or with depression without realising why. If you don't do anything at all and just sit inside absorbing TV you'll soon become very bored. But humans naturally need fulfiling work.

The key word is FULFILLING as the current capitalist concept of work is not fulfilling in the vast majority of cases, it's doing simple dehumanising work which keeps you obedeint and keeps back your liberation as a human being. Your just a cog in a machine to produce profit for the bourgeoisie and in return you get your wage slip where you can enjoy your weekend. A truly fulfilling idea of work would see your naturally creative human mind liberated to make things yourself or spend time actually studying areas that interest you for the better ment of humans.

Having this fulfiling work would greatly motivate all those who don't want to work these days because of the mundane idea of scanning the same things day in day out or putting the same things on the same objects on a production line day in day out.

And besides, under a communist or anarcho-collectivist society if you were able to peform certain roles but were not doing so I don't think the community would carry on happily giving you all you need and want, they'd probably start to push you into doing something as they'd realise that you're getting a free ride and they would help you find something to do. And having a whole community being upset with you wouldn't be a very easy thing for any human being to take.

There's plenty of reasons to work under communism.

Domela Nieuwenhuis
18th May 2013, 16:12
A communist society can have a labor credit system such as with labor vouchers. This way, theft and "making money from money" becomes impossible. The advantage of labor vouchers is that the only way to be rewarded is by working hard.


In my opinion, you can work as hard as you want to (and buy the things you want to buy) under communism/socialism. The thing is that you CANNOT (A) own private PROPERTY (land) nor can you (B) EXPLOIT others into working for you, paying them only very low wages (which is the epitome of capitalism --- cheating others out of their hard work for your own personal gain.)

But earning YOUR OWN way... by YOUR OWN labor... there is nothing wrong in that.

Earnings aka labor credit aka money is just the same. Shit can pile up in the wrong places...or even just pile up.
That's why we should abolish all kinds of monetairy means. No good comes from that.
It's just capitalism in a AnCap kinda way.

Ele'ill
18th May 2013, 18:05
I wasn't seriously suggesting that only playing with cats and playing games is gonna be it in the future that would be pretty boring. I guess the dispute here is over the word 'work'. If we want society to transform let's abolish the state, hierarchy, capital all those things we usually talk about doing and afterwards let people decide where they want to go and what they want to do. I think the world is gonna change from our current society to a new one in the severity akin to the turn of a kaleidoscope. We can't predict it and that's the point it's going to actually be that free. As I said recently in another thread I think those changes will bring a lot of people 'back to life' and save them from the otherwise monotonous existence experienced living with capitalism, in other words I think that a lot of people's 'play' is actually work that was unobtainable as such with capitalism which I think is kind of what Beeth is saying.

helot
18th May 2013, 18:20
A communist society can have a labor credit system such as with labor vouchers. This way, theft and "making money from money" becomes impossible. The advantage of labor vouchers is that the only way to be rewarded is by working hard.

i'd maintain that the creation of labour vouchers would retain the wages system and bring forth an inherent contradiction in society between individualist distribution and collective production.

I'd oppose this on multiple grounds. The first and most damning of which is a matter of practicality. Production is so interconnected that it's impossible to calculate an individual's share in the production of the world's wealth. Secondly, individuals differ to such a huge extent in their skills, capabilities, speed of performed tasks and the quality therein that having such a 'one-size-fits-all' approach is doomed and could easily result in various individuals having less access to the social product through no fault of their own even despite any work they engage in. Even further i feel that this is really just a smokescreen for retaining differing living standards between workers based on crap.. The general above the soldier, the engineer above the workman, the doctor above the nurse.. that is what i think you're advocating here.



A society having taken possession of all social wealth and proclaiming the right (for lack of a better word) of all to this wealth will be forced to abandon any system of wages whether in currency or labour-notes.






As for the topic at hand and the motivation of workers in a communist society it kinda goes without saying. I feel that everytime someone brings up 'incentive to work' what they're basically doubting is whether or not people will actually do something without being coerced by others. Such a fickle understanding of humanity and human behaviour people must possess to assume that absent of coercion people would just sit on their arses and wait for the slow march of death.

Do we really need to come up with reasons why people would produce? Do we really need to come up with reasons as to why people, in the context of having automatic access to all that's necessary to produce without taking leave of either master or owner and without surrendering the lion's share to the capitalist or landlord, would live in buildings and not caves? Would farm and not starve?

Is not "they have the tools and would find use in it" adequate?

guy123
18th May 2013, 19:59
I read "The Conquest of Bread" by Kropotkin and it answers very nicely a lot of your questions regarding division of labor, industry, work ,etc.
Especially chapters x and xv. I strongly recommend reading it, a great classic. (Google it, I am not allowed to post links)

AGREABLE WORK

CHAPTER X AGREEABLE WORK
I
When Socialists maintain that a society, freed from the rule of the capitalists, would make work agreeable, and would suppress all repugnant and unhealthy drudgery, they are laughed at. And yet even to-day we can see the striking progress that is being made in this direction; and wherever this progress has been achieved, employers congratulate themselves on the economy of energy obtained thereby.
It is evident that a factory could be made as healthy and pleasant as a scientific laboratory. And it is no less evident that it would be advantageous to make it so. In a spacious and well-ventilated factory the work is better; it is easy to introduce many small ameliorations, of which each represents an economy of time or of manual labour. And if most of the workshops we know are foul and unhealthy, it is because the workers are of no account in the organization of factories, and because the most absurd waste of human energy is the distinctive feature of the present industrial organization.
Nevertheless, now and again, we already find, even now, some factories so well managed that it would be a real pleasure to work in them, if the work, be it well understood, were not to last more than four or five hours a day, and if every one had the possibility of varying it according to his tastes.
There are immense works, which I know, in one of the Midland counties, unfortunately consecrated to engines of war. They are perfect as regards sanitary and intelligent organization. They occupy fifty English acres of land, fifteen of which are roofed with glass. The pavement of fire-proof[Pg 111] bricks is as clean as that of a miner's cottage, and the glass roof is carefully cleaned by a gang of workmen who do nothing else. In these works are forged steel ingots or blooms weighing as much as twenty tons; and when you stand thirty feet from the immense furnace, whose flames have a temperature of more than a thousand degrees, you do not guess its presence save when its great doors open to let out a steel monster. And the monster is handled by only three or four workmen, who now here, now there, open a tap causing immense cranes to move one way or another by the pressure of water.
You enter these works expecting to hear the deafening noise of stampers, and you find that there are no stampers. The immense hundred-ton guns and the crank-shafts of transatlantic steamers are forged by hydraulic pressure, and the worker has but to turn a tap to give shape to the immense mass of steel, which makes a far more homogeneous metal, without crack or flaw, of the blooms, whatever be their thickness.
I expected an infernal grating, and I saw machines which cut blocks of steel thirty feet long with no more noise than is needed to cut cheese. And when I expressed my admiration to the engineer who showed us round, he answered—
"A mere question of economy! This machine, that planes steel, has been in use for forty-two years. It would not have lasted ten years if its parts, badly adjusted, 'interfered' and creaked at each movement of the plane!
"And the blast-furnaces? It would be a waste to let heat escape instead of utilizing it. Why roast the founders, when heat lost by radiation represents tons of coal?
"The stampers that made buildings shake five leagues off were also waste. Is it not better to forge by pressure than by impact, and it costs less—there is less loss.
"In these works, light, cleanliness, the space allotted to each bench, are but a simple question of economy. Work is better done when you can see what you do, and have elbow-room.
"It is true," he said, "we were very cramped before [Pg 112]coming here. Land is so expensive in the vicinity of large towns—landlords are so grasping!"
It is even so in mines. We know what mines are like nowadays from Zola's descriptions and from newspaper reports. But the mine of the future will be well ventilated, with a temperature as easily regulated as that of a library; there will be no horses doomed to die below the earth: underground traction will be carried on by means of an automatic cable put into motion at the pit's mouth. Ventilators will be always working, and there will never be explosions. This is no dream, such a mine is already to be seen in England; I went down it. Here again the excellent organization is simply a question of economy. The mine of which I speak, in spite of its immense depth (466 yards), has an output of a thousand tons of coal a day, with only two hundred miners—five tons a day per each worker, whereas the average for the two thousand pits in England at the time I visited this mine in the early 'nineties, was hardly three hundred tons a year per man.
If necessary, it would be easy to multiply examples proving that as regards the material organization Fourier's dream was not a Utopia.
This question has, however, been so frequently discussed in Socialist newspapers that public opinion should already be educated on this point. Factory, forge and mine can be as healthy and magnificent as the finest laboratories in modern universities, and the better the organization the more will man's labour produce.
If it be so, can we doubt that work will become a pleasure and a relaxation in a society of equals, in which "hands" will not be compelled to sell themselves to toil, and to accept work under any conditions? Repugnant tasks will disappear, because it is evident that these unhealthy conditions are harmful to society as a whole. Slaves can submit to them, but free men will create new conditions, and their work will be pleasant and infinitely more productive. The exceptions of to-day will be the rule of to-morrow.
[Pg 113]
The same will come to pass as regards domestic work, which to-day society lays on the shoulders of that drudge of humanity—woman.
II

A society regenerated by the Revolution will make domestic slavery disappear—this last form of slavery, perhaps the most tenacious, because it is also the most ancient. Only it will not come about in the way dreamt of by Phalansterians, nor in the manner often imagined by authoritarian Communists.
Phalansteries are repugnant to millions of human beings. The most reserved man certainly feels the necessity of meeting his fellows for the purpose of common work, which becomes the more attractive the more he feels himself a part of an immense whole. But it is not so for the hours of leisure, reserved for rest and intimacy. The phalanstery and the familystery do not take this into account, or else they endeavour to supply this need by artificial groupings.
A phalanstery, which is in fact nothing but an immense hotel, can please some, and even all at a certain period of their life, but the great mass prefers family life (family life of the future, be it understood). They prefer isolated apartments, Anglo-Saxons even going as far as to prefer houses of from six to eight rooms, in which the family, or an agglomeration of friends, can live apart. Sometimes a phalanstery is a necessity, but it would be hateful, were it the general rule. Isolation, alternating with time spent in society, is the normal desire of human nature. This is why one of the greatest tortures in prison is the impossibility of isolation, much as solitary confinement becomes torture in its turn, when not alternated with hours of social life.
As to considerations of economy, which are sometimes laid stress on in favour of phalansteries, they are those of a petty tradesman. The most important economy, the only reasonable one, is to make life pleasant for all, because the man who is[Pg 114] satisfied with his life produces infinitely more than the man who curses his surroundings.(8)
Other Socialists reject the phalanstery. But when you ask them how domestic work can be organized, they answer: "Each can do 'his own work.' My wife manages the house; the wives of bourgeois will do as much." And if it is a bourgeois playing at Socialism who speaks, he will add, with a gracious smile to his wife: "Is it not true, darling, that you would do without a servant in the Socialist society? You would work like the wife of our good comrade Paul or the wife of John the carpenter?"
Servant or wife, man always reckons on woman to do the house-work.
But woman, too, at last claims her share in the emancipation of humanity. She no longer wants to be the beast of burden of the house. She considers it sufficient work to give many years of her life to the rearing of her children. She no longer wants to be the cook, the mender, the sweeper of the house! And, owing to American women taking the lead in obtaining their claims, there is a general complaint of the dearth of women who will condescend to domestic work in the United States. My lady prefers art, politics, literature, or the gaming tables; as to the work-girls, they are few, those who consent to submit to apron-slavery, and servants are only found with difficulty in the States. Consequently, the solution, a very simple one, is pointed out by life itself. Machinery undertakes three-quarters of the household cares.
You black your boots, and you know how ridiculous this work is. What can be more stupid than rubbing a boot twenty or thirty times with a brush? A tenth of the European [Pg 115]population must be compelled to sell itself in exchange for a miserable shelter and insufficient food, and woman must consider herself a slave, in order that millions of her sex should go through this performance every morning.
But hairdressers have already machines for brushing glossy or woolly heads of hair. Why should we not apply, then, the same principle to the other extremity? So it has been done, and nowadays the machine for blacking boots is in general use in big American and European hotels. Its use is spreading outside hotels. In large English schools, where the pupils are boarding in the houses of the teachers, it has been found easier to have one single establishment which undertakes to brush a thousand pairs of boots every morning.
As to washing up! Where can we find a housewife who has not a horror of this long and dirty work, that is usually done by hand, solely because the work of the domestic slave is of no account.
In America they do better. There are already a number of cities in which hot water is conveyed to the houses as cold water is in Europe. Under these conditions the problem was a simple one, and a woman—Mrs. Cochrane—solved it. Her machine washes twelve dozen plates or dishes, wipes them and dries them, in less than three minutes. A factory in Illinois manufactures these machines and sells them at a price within reach of the average middle-class purse. And why should not small households send their crockery to an establishment as well as their boots? It is even probable that the two functions, brushing and washing up, will be undertaken by the same association.
Cleaning, rubbing the skin off your hands when washing and wringing linen; sweeping floors and brushing carpets, thereby raising clouds of dust which afterwards occasion much trouble to dislodge from the places where they have settled down, all this work is still done because woman remains a slave, but it tends to disappear as it can be infinitely better done by machinery. Machines of all kinds will be introduced into households, and the distribution of [Pg 116]motor-power in private houses will enable people to work them without muscular effort.
Such machines cost little to manufacture. If we still pay very much for them, it is because they are not in general use, and chiefly because an exorbitant tax is levied upon every machine by the gentlemen who wish to live in grand style and who have speculated on land, raw material, manufacture, sale, patents, and duties.
But emancipation from domestic toil will not be brought about by small machines only. Households are emerging from their present state of isolation; they begin to associate with other households to do in common what they did separately.
In fact, in the future we shall not have a brushing machine, a machine for washing up plates, a third for washing linen, and so on, in each house. To the future, on the contrary, belongs the common heating apparatus that sends heat into each room of a whole district and spares the lighting of fires. It is already so in a few American cities. A great central furnace supplies all houses and all rooms with hot water, which circulates in pipes; and to regulate the temperature you need only turn a tap. And should you care to have a blazing fire in any particular room you can light the gas specially supplied for heating purposes from a central reservoir. All the immense work of cleaning chimneys and keeping up fires—and woman knows what time it takes—is disappearing.
Candles, lamps, and even gas have had their day. There are entire cities in which it is sufficient to press a button for light to burst forth, and, indeed, it is a simple question of economy and of knowledge to give yourself the luxury of electric light. And lastly, also in America, they speak of forming societies for the almost complete suppression of household work. It would only be necessary to create a department for every block of houses. A cart would come to each door and take the boots to be blacked, the crockery to be washed up, the linen to be washed, the small things to be[Pg 117] mended (if it were worth while), the carpets to be brushed, and the next morning would bring back the things entrusted to it, all well cleaned. A few hours later your hot coffee and your eggs done to a nicety would appear on your table. It is a fact that between twelve and two o'clock there are more than twenty million Americans and as many Englishmen who eat roast beef or mutton, boiled pork, potatoes and a seasonable vegetable. And at the lowest figure eight million fires burn during two or three hours to roast this meat and cook these vegetables; eight million women spend their time preparing a meal which, taking all households, represents at most a dozen different dishes.
"Fifty fires burn," wrote an American woman the other day, "where one would suffice!" Dine at home, at your own table, with your children, if you like; but only think yourself, why should these fifty women waste their whole morning to prepare a few cups of coffee and a simple meal! Why fifty fires, when two people and one single fire would suffice to cook all these pieces of meat and all these vegetables? Choose your own beef or mutton to be roasted if you are particular. Season the vegetables to your taste if you prefer a particular sauce! But have a single kitchen with a single fire and organize it as beautifully as you are able to.
Why has woman's work never been of any account? Why in every family are the mother and three or four servants obliged to spend so much time at what pertains to cooking? Because those who want to emancipate mankind have not included woman in their dream of emancipation, and consider it beneath their superior masculine dignity to think "of those kitchen arrangements," which they have put on the shoulders of that drudge—woman.
To emancipate woman, is not only to open the gates of the university, the law courts, or the parliaments to her, for the "emancipated" woman will always throw her domestic toil on to another woman. To emancipate woman is to free her from the brutalizing toil of kitchen and washhouse; it is to organize your household in such a way as to enable her to[Pg 118] rear her children, if she be so minded, while still retaining sufficient leisure to take her share of social life.
It will come. As we have said, things are already improving. Only let us fully understand that a revolution, intoxicated with the beautiful words, Liberty, Equality, Solidarity, would not be a revolution if it maintained slavery at home. Half humanity subjected to the slavery of the hearth would still have to rebel against the other half.
FOOTNOTES:

8.It seems that the Communists of Young Icaria had understood the importance of a free choice in their daily relations apart from work. The ideal of religious Communists has always been to have meals in common; it is by meals in common that early Christians manifested their adhesion to Christianity. Communion is still a vestige of it. Young Icarians had given up this religious tradition. They dined in a common dining room, but at small separate tables, at which they sat acc



THE DIVISION OF LABOUR


CHAPTER XV

THE DIVISION OF LABOUR

Political Economy has always confined itself to stating facts occurring in society, and justifying them in the interest of the dominant class. Therefore, it pronounces itself in favour of the division of labour in industry. Having found it profitable to capitalists, it has set it up as a principle.
Look at the village smith, said Adam Smith, the father of modern Political Economy. If he has never been accustomed to making nails he will only succeed by hard toil in forging two or three hundred a day, and even then they will be bad. But if this same smith has never made anything but nails, he will easily supply as many as two thousand three hundred in the course of a day. And Smith hastened to the conclusion—"Divide labour, specialize, go on specializing; let us have smiths who only know how to make heads or points of nails, and by this means we shall produce more. We shall grow rich."
That a smith condemned for life to make the heads of nails would lose all interest in his work, that he would be entirely at the mercy of his employer with his limited handicraft, that he would be out of work four months out of twelve, and that his wages would fall very low down, when it would be easy to replace him by an apprentice, Smith did not think of all this when he exclaimed—"Long live the division oŁ labour. This is the real gold-mine that will enrich the nation!" And all joined him in this cry.
And later on, when a Sismondi or a J. B. Say began to understand that the division of labour, instead of enriching[Pg 177] the whole nation, only enriches the rich, and that the worker, who is doomed for life to making the eighteenth part of a pin, grows stupid and sinks into poverty—what did official economists propose? Nothing! They did not say to themselves that by a lifelong grind at one and the same mechanical toil the worker would lose his intelligence and his spirit of invention, and that, on the contrary, a variety of occupations would result in considerably augmenting the productivity of a nation. But this is the very issue we have now to consider.
If, however, learned economists were the only ones to preach the permanent and often hereditary division of labour, we might allow them to preach it as much as they pleased. But the ideas taught by doctors of science filter into men's minds and pervert them; and from repeatedly hearing the division of labour, profits, interest, credit, etc., spoken of as problems long since solved, all middle-class people, and workers too, end by arguing like economists; they venerate the same fetishes.
Thus we see most socialists, even those who have not feared to point out the mistakes of economical science, justifying the division of labour. Talk to them about the organization of work during the Revolution, and they answer that the division of labour must be maintained; that if you sharpened pins before the Revolution you must go on sharpening them after. True, you will not have to work more than five hours a day, but you will have to sharpen pins all your life, while others will make designs for machines that will enable you to sharpen hundreds of millions of pins during your life-time; and others again will be specialists in the higher branches of literature, science, and art, etc. You were born to sharpen pins while Pasteur was born to invent the inoculation against anthrax, and the Revolution will leave you both to your respective employments. Well, it is this horrible principle, so noxious to society, so brutalizing to the individual, source of so much harm, that we propose to discuss in its divers manifestations.
We know the consequences of the division of labour full[Pg 178] well. It is evident that, first of all, we are divided into two classes: on the one hand, producers, who consume very little and are exempt from thinking because they only do physical work, and who work badly because their brains remain inactive; and on the other hand, the consumers, who, producing little or hardly anything, have the privilege of thinking for the others, and who think badly because the whole world of those who toil with their hands is unknown to them. Then, we have the labourers of the soil who know nothing of machinery, while those who work at machinery ignore everything about agriculture. The idea of modern industry is a child tending a machine that he cannot and must not understand, and a foreman who fines him if his attention flags for a moment. The ideal of industrial agriculture is to do away with the agricultural labourer altogether and to set a man who does odd jobs to tend a steam-plough or a threshing-machine. The division of labour means labelling and stamping men for life—some to splice ropes in factories, some to be foremen in a business, others to shove huge coal-baskets in a particular part of a mine; but none of them to have any idea of machinery as a whole, nor of business, nor of mines. And thereby they destroy the love of work and the capacity for invention that, at the beginning of modern industry, created the machinery on which we pride ourselves so much.
What they have done for individuals, they also wanted to do for nations. Humanity was to be divided into national workshops, having each its speciality. Russia, we were taught, was destined by nature to grow corn; England to spin cotton; Belgium to weave cloth; while Switzerland was to train nurses and governesses. Moreover, each separate city was to establish a specialty. Lyons was to weave silk, Auvergne to make lace, and Paris fancy articles. In this way, economists said, an immense field was opened for production and consumption, and in this way an era of limitless wealth for mankind was at hand.
However, these great hopes vanished as fast as technical knowledge spread abroad. As long as England stood alone[Pg 179] as a weaver of cotton and as a metal-worker on a large scale; as long as only Paris made artistic fancy articles, etc., all went well, economists could preach the so-called division of labour without being refuted.
But a new current of thought induced bye and bye all civilized nations to manufacture for themselves. They found it advantageous to produce what they formerly received from other countries, or from their colonies, which in their turn aimed at emancipating themselves from the mother-country. Scientific discoveries universalized the methods of production, and henceforth it was useless to pay an exorbitant price abroad for what could easily be produced at home. And now we see already that this industrial revolution strikes a crushing blow at the theory of the division of labour which for a long time was supposed to be so sound.
[Pg 180]
CHAPTER XVI

THE DECENTRALIZATION OF INDUSTRY

I

After the Napoleonic wars Britain had nearly succeeded in ruining the main industries which had sprung up in France at the end of the preceding century. She also became mistress of the seas and had no rivals of importance. She took in the situation, and knew how to turn its privileges and advantages to account. She established an industrial monopoly, and, imposing upon her neighbours her prices for the goods she alone could manufacture, accumulated riches upon riches.
But as the middle-class Revolution of the eighteenth century had abolished serfdom and created a proletariat in France, French industry, hampered for a time in its flight, soared again, and from the second half of the nineteenth century France ceased to be a tributary of England for manufactured goods. To-day she too has grown into a nation with an export trade. She sells far more than sixty million pounds' worth of manufactured goods, and two-thirds of these goods are fabrics. The number of Frenchmen working for export or living by their foreign trade, is estimated at three millions.
France is therefore no longer England's tributary. In her turn she has striven to monopolize certain branches of foreign industry, such as silks and ready-made clothes, and has reaped immense profits therefrom; but she is on the point of losing this monopoly for ever, just as England is on the point of losing the monopoly of cotton goods.
[Pg 181]
Travelling eastwards, industry has reached Germany. Fifty years ago Germany was a tributary of England and France for most manufactured commodities in the higher branches of industry. It is no longer so. In the course of the last fifty years, and especially since the Franco-German war, Germany has completely reorganized her industry. The new factories are stocked with the best machinery; the latest creations of industrial art in cotton goods from Manchester, or in silks from Lyons, etc., are now realized in new German factories. It took two or three generations of workers, at Lyons and Manchester, to construct the modern machinery; but Germany adopted it in its perfected state. Technical schools, adapted to the needs of industry, supply the factories with an army of intelligent workmen—practical engineers, who can work with both hand and brain. German industry starts at the point which was only reached by Manchester and Lyons after fifty years of groping in the dark, of exertion and experiments.
It follows that since Germany manufactures so well at home, she diminishes her imports from France and England year by year. She has not only become their rival in manufactured goods in Asia and in Africa, but also in London and in Paris. Shortsighted people in France may cry out against the Frankfort Treaty; English manufacturers may explain German competition by little differences in railway tariffs; they may linger on the petty side of questions, and neglect great historical facts. But it is none the less certain that the main industries, formerly in the hands of England and France, have progressed eastward, and in Germany they have found a country, young, full of energy, possessing an intelligent middle class, and eager in its turn to enrich itself by foreign trade.
While Germany has freed herself from subjection to France and England, has manufactured her own cotton-cloth, and constructed her own machines—in fact, manufactured all commodities—the main industries have also taken root in [Pg 182]Russia, where the development of manufacture is the more instructive as it sprang up but yesterday.
At the time of the abolition of serfdom in 1861, Russia had hardly any factories. Everything needed in the way of machines, rails, railway-engines, fine dress materials, came from the West. Twenty years later she possessed already 85,000 factories, and the value of the goods manufactured in Russia had increased fourfold.
The old machinery was superseded, and now nearly all the steel in use in Russia, three-quarters of the iron, two-thirds of the coal, all railway-engines, railway-carriages, rails, nearly all steamers, are made in Russia.
Russia, destined—so wrote economists—to remain an agricultural territory, has rapidly developed into a manufacturing country. She orders hardly anything from England, and very little from Germany.
Economists hold the customs responsible for these facts, and yet cottons manufactured in Russia are sold at the same price as in London. Capital taking no cognizance of father-lands, German and English capitalists, accompanied by engineers and foremen of their own nationalities, have introduced in Russia and in Poland manufactories whose goods compete in excellence with the best from England. If customs were abolished to-morrow, manufacture would only gain by it. Not long ago the British manufacturers delivered another hard blow to the import of cloth and woolens from the West. They set up in southern and middle Russia immense wool factories, stocked with the most perfect machinery from Bradford, and already now Russia imports only the highest sorts of cloth and woolen fabrics from England, France and Austria. The remainder is fabricated at home, both in factories and as domestic industries.
The main industries not only move eastward, they are spreading also to the southern peninsulas. The Turin Exhibition of 1884 already demonstrated the progress made in Italian manufactured produce; and, let us not make any mistake about it, the mutual hatred of the French and Italian middle[Pg 183] classes has no other origin than their industrial rivalry. Spain is also becoming an industrial country; while in the East, Bohemia has suddenly sprung into importance as a new centre of manufactures, provided with perfected machinery and applying the best scientific methods.
We might also mention Hungary's rapid progress in the main industries, but let us rather take Brazil as an example. Economists sentenced Brazil to cultivate cotton forever, to export it in its raw state, and to receive cotton-cloth from Europe in exchange. In fact, forty years ago Brazil had only nine wretched little cotton factories with 385 spindles. To-day there are 160 cotton-mills, possessing 1,500,000 spindles and 50,000 looms, which throw 500 million yards of textiles on the market annually.
Even Mexico is now very successful in manufacturing cotton-cloth, instead of importing it from Europe. As to the United States they have quite freed themselves from European tutelage, and have triumphantly developed their manufacturing powers to an enormous extent.
But it was India which gave the most striking proof against the specialization of national industry.
We all know the theory: the great European nations need colonies, for colonies send raw material—cotton fibre, unwashed wool, spices, etc., to the mother-land. And the mother-land, under pretense of sending them manufactured wares, gets rid of her damaged stuffs, her machine scrap-iron and everything which she no longer has any use for. It costs her little or nothing, and none the less the articles are sold at exorbitant prices.
Such was the theory—such was the practice for a long time. In London and Manchester fortunes were made, while India was being ruined. In the India Museum in London unheard of riches, collected in Calcutta and Bombay by English merchants, are to be seen.
But other English merchants and capitalists conceived the very simple idea that it would be more expedient to exploit the natives of India by making cotton-cloth in India itself,[Pg 184] than to import from twenty to twenty-four million pounds' worth of goods annually.
At first a series of experiments ended in failure. Indian weavers—artists and experts in their own craft—could not inure themselves to factory life; the machinery sent from Liverpool was bad; the climate had to be taken into account; and merchants had to adapt themselves to new conditions, now fully mastered, before British India could become the menacing rival of the Mother-land she is to-day.
She now possesses more than 200 cotton-mills which employ about 230,000 workmen, and contain more than 6,000,000 spindles and 80,000 looms, and 40 jute-mills, with 400,000 spindles. She exports annually to China, to the Dutch Indies, and to Africa, nearly eight million pounds' worth of the same white cotton-cloth, said to be England's specialty. And while English workmen are often unemployed and in great want, Indian women weave cotton by machinery, for the Far East at wages of six-pence a day. In short, the intelligent manufacturers are fully aware that the day is not far off when they will not know what to do with the "factory hands" who formerly wove cotton-cloth for export from England. Besides which it is becoming more and more evident that India will no import a single ton of iron from England. The initial difficulties in using the coal and the iron-ore obtained in India have been overcome; and foundries, rivalling those in England, have been built on the shores of the Indian Ocean.
Colonies competing with the mother-land in its production of manufactured goods, such is the factor which will regulate economy in the twentieth century.
And why should India not manufacture? What should be the hindrance? Capital?—But capital goes wherever there are men, poor enough to be exploited. Knowledge? But knowledge recognizes no national barriers. Technical skill of the worker?—No. Are, then, Hindoo workmen inferior to the hundreds of thousands of boys and girls, not eighteen years old, at present working in the English textile factories?
[Pg 185]
II

After having glanced at national industries it would be very interesting to turn to some special branches.
Let us take silk, for example, an eminently French produce in the first half of the nineteenth century. We all know how Lyons became the emporium of the silk trade. At first raw silk was gathered in southern France, till little by little they ordered it from Italy, from Spain, from Austria, from the Caucasus, and from Japan, for the manufacture of their silk fabrics. In 1875, out of five million kilos of raw silk converted into stuffs in the vicinity of Lyons, there were only four hundred thousand kilos of French silk. But if Lyons manufactured imported silk, why should not Switzerland, Germany, Russia, do as much? Consequently, silk-weaving began to develop in the villages round Zurich. Bâle became a great centre of the silk trade. The Caucasian Administration engaged women from Marseilles and workmen from Lyons to teach Georgians the perfected rearing of silk-worms, and the art of converting silk into fabrics to the Caucasian peasants. Austria followed. Then Germany, with the help of Lyons workmen, built great silk factories. The United States did likewise at Paterson.
And to-day the silk trade is no longer a French monopoly. Silks are made in Germany, in Austria, in the United States, and in England, and it is now reckoned that one-third of the silk stuffs used in France are imported. In winter, Caucasian peasants weave silk handkerchiefs at a wage that would mean starvation to the silk-weavers of Lyons. Italy and Germany send silks to France; and Lyons, which in 1870-4 exported 460 million francs' worth of silk fabrics, exports now only one-half of that amount. In fact, the time is not far off when Lyons will only send higher class goods and a few novelties as patterns to Germany, Russia and Japan.
And so it is in all industries. Belgium has no longer the cloth monopoly; cloth is made in Germany, in Russia, in Austria, in the United States. Switzerland and the French[Pg 186] Jura have no longer a clockwork monopoly; watches are made everywhere. Scotland no longer refines sugar for Russia: refined Russian sugar is imported into England. Italy, although neither possessing coal nor iron, makes her own iron-clads and engines for her steamers. Chemical industry is no longer an English monopoly; sulphuric acid and soda are made even in the Urals. Steam-engines, made at Winterthur, have acquired everywhere a wide reputation, and at the present moment, Switzerland, which has neither coal nor iron, and no sea-ports to import them—nothing but excellent technical schools—makes machinery better and cheaper than England. So ends the theory of Exchange.
The tendency of trade, as for all else, is toward decentralization.
Every nation finds it advantageous to combine agriculture with the greatest possible variety of factories. The specialization, of which economists spoke so highly, certainly has enriched a number of capitalists, but is now no longer of any use. On the contrary, it is to the advantage of every region, every nation, to grow their own wheat, their own vegetables, and to manufacture at home most of the produce they consume. This diversity is the surest pledge of the complete development of production by mutual co-operation, and the moving cause of progress, while specialization is now a hindrance to progress.
Agriculture can only prosper in proximity to factories. And no sooner does a single factory appear than an infinite variety of other factories must spring up around, so that, mutually supporting and stimulating one another by their inventions, they increase their productivity.
III

It is foolish indeed to export wheat and to import flour, to export wool and import cloth, to export iron and import machinery; not only because transportation is a waste of time and money, but, above all, because a country with no [Pg 187]developed industry inevitably remains behind the times in agriculture; because a country with no large factories to bring steel to a finished condition is doomed to be backward in all other industries; and lastly, because the industrial and technical capacities of the nation remain undeveloped, if they are not exercised in a variety of industries.
Nowadays everything holds together in the world of production. Cultivation of the soil is no longer possible without machinery, without great irrigation works, without railways, without manure factories. And to adapt this machinery, these railways, these irrigation engines, etc., to local conditions, a certain spirit of invention, and a certain amount of technical skill must be developed, while they necessarily lie dormant so long as spades and ploughshares are the only implements of cultivation.
If fields are to be properly cultivated, if they are to yield the abundant harvests that man has the right to expect, it is essential that workshops, foundries, and factories develop within the reach of the fields. A variety of occupations, and a variety of skill arising therefrom, both working together for a common aim—these are the true forces of progress.
And now let us imagine the inhabitants of a city or a territory—whether vast or small—stepping for the first time on to the path of the Social Revolution.
We are sometimes told that "nothing will have changed": that the mines, the factories, etc., will be expropriated, and proclaimed national or communal property, that every man will go back to his usual work, and that the Revolution will then be accomplished.
But this is a mere dream: the Social Revolution cannot take place so simply.
We have already mentioned that should the Revolution break out to-morrow in Paris, Lyons, or any other city—should the workers lay hands on factories, houses, and banks, present production would be completely revolutionized by this simple fact.
International commerce will come to a standstill; so also[Pg 188] will the importation of foreign bread-stuffs; the circulation of commodities and of provisions will be paralyzed. And then, the city or territory in revolt will be compelled to provide for itself, and to reorganize its production, so as to satisfy its own needs. If it fails to do so, it is death. If it succeeds, it will revolutionize the economic life of the country.
The quantity of imported provisions having decreased, consumption having increased, one million Parisians working for exportation purposes having been thrown out of work, a great number of things imported to-day from distant or neighbouring countries not reaching their destination, fancy-trade being temporarily at a standstill,—What will the inhabitants have to eat six months after the Revolution?
We think that when the stores containing food-stuffs are empty, the masses will seek to obtain their food from the land. They will see the necessity of cultivating the soil, of combining agricultural production with industrial production in the suburbs of Paris itself and its environs. They will have to abandon the merely ornamental trades and consider their most urgent need—bread.
A great number of the inhabitants of the cities will have to become agriculturists. Not in the same manner as the present peasants who wear themselves out, ploughing for a wage that barely provides them with sufficient food for the year, but by following the principles of the intensive agriculture, of the market gardeners, applied on a large scale by means of the best machinery that man has invented or can invent. They will till the land—not, however, like the country beast of burden: a Paris jeweller would object to that. They will organize cultivation on better principles; and not in the future, but at once, during the revolutionary struggles, from fear of being worsted by the enemy.
Agriculture will have to be carried out on intelligent lines, by men and women availing themselves of the experience of the present time, organizing themselves in joyous gangs for pleasant work, like those who, a hundred years ago, worked in the Champ de Mars for the Feast of the Federation—a[Pg 189] work of delight, when not carried to excess, when scientifically organized, when man invents and improves his tools and is conscious of being a useful member of the community.
Of course, they will not only cultivate wheat and oats—they will also produce those things which they formerly used to order from foreign parts. And let us not forget that for the inhabitants of a revolted territory, "foreign parts" may include all districts that have not joined in the revolutionary movement. During the Revolutions of 1793 and 1871 Paris was made to feel that "foreign parts" meant even the country district at her very gates. The speculator in grains at Troyes starved in 1793 and 1794 the sansculottes of Paris as badly, and even worse, than the German armies brought on to French soil by the Versailles conspirators. The revolted city will be compelled to do without these "foreigners," and why not? France invented beet-root sugar when sugar-cane ran short during the continental blockade. Parisians discovered saltpetre in their cellars when they no longer received any from abroad. Shall we be inferior to our grandfathers, who hardly lisped the first words of science?
A revolution is more than a mere change of the prevailing political system. It implies the awakening of human intelligence, the increasing of the inventive spirit tenfold, a hundredfold; it is the dawn of a new science—the science of men like Laplace, Lamarck, Lavoisier. It is a revolution in the minds of men, as deep, and deeper still, than in their institutions.
And there are still economists, who tell us that once the "revolution is made," everyone will return to his workshop, as if passing through a revolution were going home after a walk in the Epping forest!
To begin with, the sole fact of having laid hands on middle-class property will imply the necessity of completely reorganizing the whole of economic life in the workshops, the dockyards, the factories.
And the revolution surely will not fail to act in this direction. Should Paris, during the social revolution, be cut off[Pg 190] from the world for a year or two by the supporters of middle-class rule, its millions of intellects, not yet depressed by factory life—that City of little trades which stimulate the spirit of invention—will show the world what man's brain can accomplish without asking for help from without, but the motor force of the sun that gives light, the power of the wind that sweeps away impurities, and the silent life-forces at work in the earth we tread on.
We shall see then what a variety of trades, mutually cooperating on a spot of the globe and animated by a revolution, can do to feed, clothe, house, and supply with all manner of luxuries millions of intelligent men.
We need write no fiction to prove this. What we are sure of, what has already been experimented upon, and recognized as practical, would suffice to carry it into effect, if the attempt were fertilized, vivified by the daring inspiration of the Revolution and the spontaneous impulse of the masses.
FOOTNOTE:

10. A fuller development of these ideas will be found in my book, Fields, Factories, and Workshops, published by Messrs. Thomas Nelson and Sons in their popular series in 1912.

Klaatu
19th May 2013, 02:29
In my opinion, you can work as hard as you want to (and buy the things you want to buy) under communism/socialism. The thing is that you CANNOT (A) own private PROPERTY (land) nor can you (B) EXPLOIT others into working for you, paying them only very low wages (which is the epitome of capitalism --- cheating others out of their hard work for your own personal gain.)

But earning YOUR OWN way... by YOUR OWN labor... there is nothing wrong in that.

I am quoting myself here ... upon thinking about it, it occurs to me that my "work hard/buy things" statement would apply to socialism. But in communism, one works for the betterment of society, not so much for the betterment of just oneself (is this correct?)

Craig_J
19th May 2013, 03:55
I am quoting myself here ... upon thinking about it, it occurs to me that my "work hard/buy things" statement would apply to socialism. But in communism, one works for the betterment of society, not so much for the betterment of just oneself (is this correct?)

Yes that's correct, like I said in my post though there are still psychological motivations for the individual such as pride, doing a truly constructive hobby and improving the community around you and thus the moral of the people around you thus improving your life.

Fourth Internationalist
19th May 2013, 04:10
People will work because they have to, otherwise their quality of life will go down immensely. I.e. If no one cleans the toilets, everyone gets dirty toilets. If they all want clean toilets, they wil clean them. If no one grows food, no one gets food. If they want food, they will grow food. If no one creates luxury goods, no one gets luxury goods. If everyone wants luxury goods, they need to make luxury goods.

Jimmie Higgins
19th May 2013, 08:57
and women too but aside from archaic socialist traditions no not everyone wants to work some of us want to drink beer and play magic the gathering all day and do drugs and play with catsBut it takes work to feed a cat and grow drugs and organize large-scale games and tournaments. That is, just to say, "work" would be part of making what we want, available.

Beyond the daily alienation and lack of power at the job, the mental-fuck of it all is that you become your job: your value is whatever you can get for employment. So some people like yardwork when they have a nice house, they may even fantasize about how much they'd like being a gardener rather than working a 9-5 in an office, but they probably wouldn't like it for long if that's what they were stuck with and they were "Gardener" rather than someone who gardens on the weekend. So the de-stigmatizing of jobs, de-linking it from your "value" in capitalism would - I think - not make it such a big deal if part of the deal for living in a community is that you have to collect garbage or make prepare food every once in a while. You'd be defined as the person who is fun and likes to do drugs and play with cats and study this or play that, not as the person who is a dishwasher or clerk or whatnot.

Ele'ill
19th May 2013, 20:33
But it takes work to feed a cat and grow drugs and organize large-scale games and tournaments. That is, just to say, "work" would be part of making what we want, available.

Beyond the daily alienation and lack of power at the job, the mental-fuck of it all is that you become your job: your value is whatever you can get for employment. So some people like yardwork when they have a nice house, they may even fantasize about how much they'd like being a gardener rather than working a 9-5 in an office, but they probably wouldn't like it for long if that's what they were stuck with and they were "Gardener" rather than someone who gardens on the weekend. So the de-stigmatizing of jobs, de-linking it from your "value" in capitalism would - I think - not make it such a big deal if part of the deal for living in a community is that you have to collect garbage or make prepare food every once in a while. You'd be defined as the person who is fun and likes to do drugs and play with cats and study this or play that, not as the person who is a dishwasher or clerk or whatnot.

I think this is what I said in my reply to the reply of my post

Rooiakker
20th May 2013, 03:48
I already volunteer with groups I support. It's fun, and productive. Even agriculture and assembly can be enjoyable, just not when you're clocking away for a soulless hourly wage in shitty environments.

Work is fun, being a wage slave isn't.

ckaihatsu
20th May 2013, 04:53
i'd maintain that the creation of labour vouchers would retain the wages system and bring forth an inherent contradiction in society between individualist distribution and collective production.


I'll argue this on the grounds that you're taking a purely economistic stance here and not considering the *political* side of social organization, as for collective production.

The only reason to use *any* kind of material accounting at all is so that we can standardize the method in a convenient, fair way. This topic was recently covered at length:


How do we prioritise production under [hp] communism?

http://www.revleft.com/vb/do-we-prioritise-t180057/index.html


Labor vouchers -- or, as I advocate, a certain kind of labor credits (see my blog entry) -- do not *necessarily* have to be a slippery slope back to private accumulation. Rather, I think they're an attempt to assert some kind of official baseline of valuation (for the voucher unit), as a replacement for market-based valuations.





I'd oppose this on multiple grounds. The first and most damning of which is a matter of practicality. Production is so interconnected that it's impossible to calculate an individual's share in the production of the world's wealth.


I agree with this as a statement of fact, but will also note that 60 minutes is always an hour for anyone, anywhere, any time -- as long as there is a common denominator for all *types* of labor roles, then that index can be used with the standard labor hour, to produce a baseline common valuation that I call 'labor credits'.

Going forward, post-capitalism, we should have a social recognition of material value that is reducible to people's *time* spent building or developing whatever.





Secondly, individuals differ to such a huge extent in their skills, capabilities, speed of performed tasks and the quality therein that having such a 'one-size-fits-all' approach is doomed


Yes, but if the range of difficulties and hazards therein could somehow be indexed-in-common, then there would be a standard baseline by which to gauge anyone's hour of labor on a sliding scale.





and could easily result in various individuals having less access to the social product through no fault of their own even despite any work they engage in.


This aspect has to do with *distribution*, as a separate matter.





Even further i feel that this is really just a smokescreen for retaining differing living standards between workers based on crap.. The general above the soldier, the engineer above the workman, the doctor above the nurse.. that is what i think you're advocating here.



A society having taken possession of all social wealth and proclaiming the right (for lack of a better word) of all to this wealth will be forced to abandon any system of wages whether in currency or labour-notes.






As for the topic at hand and the motivation of workers in a communist society it kinda goes without saying. I feel that everytime someone brings up 'incentive to work' what they're basically doubting is whether or not people will actually do something without being coerced by others. Such a fickle understanding of humanity and human behaviour people must possess to assume that absent of coercion people would just sit on their arses and wait for the slow march of death.

Do we really need to come up with reasons why people would produce? Do we really need to come up with reasons as to why people, in the context of having automatic access to all that's necessary to produce without taking leave of either master or owner and without surrendering the lion's share to the capitalist or landlord, would live in buildings and not caves? Would farm and not starve?

Is not "they have the tools and would find use in it" adequate?

Crixus
20th May 2013, 06:34
There is a problem with just insisting that people want to work. I think it's true (and I think Mari3l really will find that in an un-alienating society 'work' as such has more appeal than it does now) but is it sufficient?

'From each according to their ability, to each accoring to their need' is relatively straightforward I think. it means if people don't contribute materially to society, they can't take what they want from society. Not because 'the government' or whatever stops them taking what they want, but because what they want doesn't exist.

In capitalism, if I want a sandwich, I have to go to work to earn some money to buy some bread and cheese and whatnot, and a knife, to make a sandwich - it will take a couple of hours work to obtain these things, but I can in the end make several sandwiches with what I have; or I can buy a sandwich, which is the equivalent of 15 or 20 minutes' work, and part of what I pay goes to pay the person who made the sandwich. I can't just take bread and filling and do it myself. I have to paty someone.

In communism, I can just take bread and cheese and a knife, and make it myself. But I still have to make it. I can shout 'I want a sandwich' all day, but if I don't make it I can't eat it. OK, someone else may of course make me one, but if I just sit on my arse every day shouting 'I want a sandwich' then I think pretty rapidly someone is going to say 'the bread's over there, go make yourself one, and while you're up, can I have a cheese and pickle on wholemeal, please?'

You can't make a sandwich in a communist society because you would be oppressing the sources of cheese and meat (animals) and therefore are no different than a rapist or NAZI (not my 'logic'). Having that said and out of the way many of us understand it will take years of transition before communism is possible just as it took centuries to force people into capitalism. This work doesn't necessarily depend on a socialist revolution to begin implementing as within the framework or economic base of capitalism we can push for the beginnings of a cultural shift within the superstructure but a shift which can't be fully realized without a socialist revolution.

The real trick is how to have an industrial society with large urban centers in lieu of rural tribes as Marx spoke of with primitive communism. His saying, 'from each to each', directly came from the study of primitive communism. Obviously these were tribal societies with closer community bonds. To immediately replicate this on a large industrial scale, especially after over a hundred of years of capitalist superstructure, would be a daunting task. I would assume (although Marx didn't talk much about how a communist society would look outside of how primitive communists societies looked) money would exist for quite some time- in a transitional period. Anarchists won't like this analysis because it necessitates a state in order to allocate resources/money. Marx also spoke of melding the city and countryside which would indeed create smaller cities with populations spread out in so creating more of the community environment that primitive tribal communism had.

Marx didn't deeply delve into what a communist society would look like because he was trying to keep his analysis materialist. As in, what have we seen in human history and what can be possible based on that. This is why there's no books written concerning the gears and leavers of an advanced industrial communist society. What it would look like exactly and how it would function. All we're left with in that regard is indeed idealism, or, speculation on things which have never existed. Probable outcomes to material conditions based on historical models. Like Marx I think the initial goal should be to abolish capital and property then slowly work the necessary steps to reshape the superstructure on an increasingly democratic economic base under the control of a workers state.

Key words here are 'necessary steps'. How do we revert back to an older form of social arrangements while pushing forward with industrialization and chip away at the mind frame which took hundreds of years to force on humanity? Even after counterrevolution has been defeated, property and capital abolished what would the 'necessary steps' be to ensure the old egoist competitive mind frame has been replaced with a cooperative mind frame. How long will this take? What do we do about the nuclear family? How do we end the affects of alienation? How do we wither away at the isolation and lack of social/community accountability capitalism created?

Historical materialism isn't deterministic it simply gives a map of probability- if we do this, there's a strong likelihood this will happen. In this sense we're trying to 'revert' back to old forms of social arrangments while at the sme time keeping the benefits of industrialization. This is a problem that has pushed some into being anti-civilization. Anti agriculture. Anti industry. They can't envision a classless industrial society. Marx would say we need to worry about the revolution not what happens after as once state power is in workers hands it would be up to us to forge our future.

Anyhow I found this a good read:

http://www.nyu.edu/projects/ollman/docs/vision_of_communism.php

cyu
20th May 2013, 06:46
Perhaps an FAQ among FAQs. I'm sure there are a zillion threads already on this. Here are a couple:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/moneyi-t171697/index.html

http://www.revleft.com/vb/few-questions-incentive-t172227/index.html

Domela Nieuwenhuis
20th May 2013, 16:13
You can't make a sandwich in a communist society because you would be oppressing the sources of cheese and meat (animals) and therefore are no different than a rapist or NAZI (not my 'logic').

Who the hell's kind of logic is that? That isn't even logic at all!
SO anyone saying that is actually saying that capitalists AND meat-eaters are no different than rapists or Nazi's.
What the hell is the link between the four?

Communist doesn't mean vegan.
Rapist doesn't mean nazi.
Etc.

For a fact: lots of nazi's hate rapists too. Oh, and Hitler was a vegetarian.

Now what?

Fourth Internationalist
20th May 2013, 16:22
You can't make a sandwich in a communist society because you would be oppressing the sources of cheese and meat (animals) and therefore are no different than a rapist or NAZI (not my 'logic').

You can have a sandwich without meat or other animal products. (http://www.peta.org/features/petas-top-five-vegan-sandwiches.aspx):D

Ele'ill
20th May 2013, 17:28
You can have a sandwich without meat or other animal products. (http://www.peta.org/features/petas-top-five-vegan-sandwiches.aspx):D


Crixus talking about revolution but cannot figure out how to make a sandwich without animal products

Anticommi
27th May 2013, 02:08
Good question. Refer to any commune and see how the sharing equally has worked out for them. Usually they end up drinking kool aid and dying! Good luck in the equal world of fantasy!

Domela Nieuwenhuis
27th May 2013, 05:43
Good question. Refer to any commune and see how the sharing equally has worked out for them. Usually they end up drinking kool aid and dying! Good luck in the equal world of fantasy!

Well, since your banned (probably for your username alone) it doesn't really matter, but i'll answer this anyway for future reference.

First of, you're mistaking a commune for a sect.

Secondly, we are talking about "motivation to work" not "living in a closed commune". Not even remotely close.

Thirdly, communes within a capitalist world cannot exist for long because of the heavy dependence on the outside world who, obviously, isn't communist.
It's like socialism in one country: it can never last.

empireofred
27th May 2013, 09:39
One more thing I'd like to add is that the prestige/respect of being a doctor/professor/scientist etc. would still be in there. People would still be motivated to achieve something, even if there was no monetary reward.