Questions about Communism and and the abolition of money.

[Always Curious J]

Obviously communism rids of the monetary system (correct?) which I fully agree with. I believe things should be made for the benefit and need of the people, not for the profit of a few. However I do have a few concerns (if you can call them that)
1. Choice
Sorry if this is stupid, but lets say that Billy wants to go to the store and get some food. Will he still have the option to get whatever he wants or do people choose what he gets?
2. Amount
Inevitably people will be selfish and want a lot. More than is sustainable. How would this be prevented if things are "free"? (maybe I don't understand how items would get into the hands of the people) If there was a limit set how would it be enforced and who would decide that limit?
3. Luxury Items
How would things such as televisions be handled? What I mean by this is how would it be decided who gets these televisions, how many they'd get etc? This goes for all luxury items.
4. Dirty Jobs
What would be the incentive for people to do jobs such as be a janitor, exterminator, sewer manager etc.? Right now the incentive is the fact people need to work to survive and so they take whatever work is available (which I believe is wrong). Why would someone take jobs like that in a communistic society?
5. Laziness
What would be the incentive to work at all? Will those who don't work be be punished? (Not being condescending) If they cannot work it would be a different story though correct?

Yes I am new to this so I am sorry if I seem stupid or ignorant, and I'm not trying to argue I just want to learn. Answers would be greatly appreciated so I can better understand these ideas!

Thanks for all the replies everybody I just finished reading them and hope to reply to most once I get home!

EDIT: Wish I could respond to more and I assure you I've read all of them. However, I'm busy and caught up with something back home so I may not be able to respond today:(. Thanks again though for the responses and I hope to reply to most. Have a fantastic day!

[Deity]

Obviously communism rids of the monetary system (correct?) which I fully agree with. I believe things should be made for the benefit and need of the people, not for the profit of a few. However I do have a few concerns (if you can call them that)
1. Choice
Sorry if this is stupid, but lets say that Billy wants to go to the store and get some food. Will he still have the option to get whatever he wants or do people choose what he gets?
Why would anybody choose what Billy eats? Billy is welcome to anything that is available to him.

2. Amount
Inevitably people will be selfish and want a lot. More than is sustainable. How would this be prevented if things are "free"? (maybe I don't understand how items would get into the hands of the people) If there was a limit set how would it be enforced and who would decide that limit?
Why exactly would someone be selfish? Having 3 loaves of bread on day 1 does not make you more advantaged than someone who gets 1 loaf of bread a day for 3 days.

3. Luxury Items
How would things such as televisions be handled? What I mean by this is how would it be decided who gets these televisions, how many they'd get etc? This goes for all luxury items.

I'm not an expert on the production of items, but if I'm not mistaken there could be enough of most things for everyone that wanted one.

Production would no longer be for a profit and items could be freely made. If you want a TV and there isn't one available you could probably request one or something, but I cant think of anything that would prevent someone from getting any item.

4. Dirty Jobs
What would be the incentive for people to do jobs such as be a janitor, exterminator, sewer manager etc.? Right now the incentive is the fact people need to work to survive and so they take whatever work is available (which I believe is wrong). Why would someone take jobs like that in a communistic society?

I couldn't tell you on this one. I'm sure that these jobs could go to the people that honestly just don't mind it as much as the rest of people.

5. Laziness
What would be the incentive to work at all? Will those who don't work be be punished? (Not being condescending) If they cannot work it would be a different story though correct?

They wouldn't be punished, but how much do you think your fellow community members would want to do for you if they knew you refused to contribute?


Yes I am new to this so I am sorry if I seem stupid or ignorant, and I'm not trying to argue I just want to learn. Answers would be greatly appreciated so I can better understand these ideas! Thanks!

No worries! I know my responses were rather mediocre, so feel free to ask specifically on any point and I hope other board members chime in!

[tuwix]

Obviously communism rids of the monetary system (correct?) which I fully agree with. I believe things should be made for the benefit and need of the people, not for the profit of a few. However I do have a few concerns (if you can call them that)
1. Choice
Sorry if this is stupid, but lets say that Billy wants to go to the store and get some food. Will he still have the option to get whatever he wants or do people choose what he gets?


Yes.



2. Amount
Inevitably people will be selfish and want a lot. More than is sustainable. How would this be prevented if things are "free"? (maybe I don't understand how items would get into the hands of the people)


False assumption. In package holidays breakfasts frequently are in form of buffet. Everyone tekaes what she or he wants. And there never lacks anything...



3. Luxury Items
How would things such as televisions be handled? What I mean by this is how would it be decided who gets these televisions, how many they'd get etc? This goes for all luxury items.


Do you mean TV sets? They are not luxury items. But access to luxury items should be regulated by booking. You want to drive Ferrari, then you book a time when you can and the problem is solved.



4. Dirty Jobs
What would be the incentive for people to do jobs such as be a janitor, exterminator, sewer manager etc.? Right now the incentive is the fact people need to work to survive and so they take whatever work is available (which I believe is wrong). Why would someone take jobs like that in a communistic society?

5. Laziness
What would be the incentive to work at all? Will those who don't work be be punished? (Not being condescending) If they cannot work it would be a different story though correct?


And this is why communism is to be introduced only when there is such automation of work that machines make vast majority (over 95%) this unpleasant jobs. The rest can be done by volunteers whose incentive will be humanity's prosperity.

[MacchineBox]

This is my understanding of the situation:

A note: When full communism has taken effect the people will have undergone huge societal changes in the way they perceive each other. A major change that must occur is the want to the be best at something or having the best of everything will have diminished.



1. Choice
Lets say that Billy wants to go to the store and get some food. Will he still have the option to get whatever he wants or do people choose what he gets?

Assuming we keep the same method of distribution (ie grocery store) member of the community will be able to walk into the store when ever they want and take whatever they need as they see fit. There will be no threat of shortages so people will not be fearful and hoard goods.



2. Amount
Inevitably people will be selfish and want a lot. More than is sustainable. How would this be prevented if things are "free"? (maybe I don't understand how items would get into the hands of the people) If there was a limit set how would it be enforced and who would decide that limit?

Ideally the desire to want better stuff than your neighbor will not be there (as this desire is amplified by witty marketing - marketing itself to be thing of the past). A condition for full communism is production of goods has become so sustainable and cheap that there is plenty of product to go around. Combined this and the hope that products will begin being crafted with longevity in mind, there should be no reason a factory couldn't produce enough high quality units for the masses aswel as keep a small backstock for quick replacements. With the ability to communicate and store information technology allows us, there is no reason someone should go very long without something.



3. Luxury Items
How would things such as televisions be handled? What I mean by this is how would it be decided who gets these televisions, how many they'd get etc? This goes for all luxury items.

For utility services and items such as kitchen appliances, entertainment devices, and other homely items see the above response. For other items for specific to personal enjoyment such as hobbies it would work much like the grocery store in my response to question 1. Say you are an artist and you need more supplies; you would go down to the store and pick some up. If you live out in the country, perhaps a delivery system would be in place. If you are more of the type that likes to go fishing on a boat, the cooperative spirit would suggest a marina would have a fleet of ships ready for your use upon request (along with any gear you may necessitate).
For those who like to travel, this seems a bit more tricky, but since a lot of air fare and the like are artificially inflated getting someone from point A to point B should be vastly cheaper. A system could be set up that allows everyone a long term/long distance trip every so often. If this seems a bit controlling to you, the last time I was able to go on cation was 5 years ago when I went to my sisters wedding. On trip a year (hell, every two years) would be a vast improvement to me.



4. Dirty Jobs
What would be the incentive for people to do jobs such as be a janitor, exterminator, sewer manager etc.? Right now the incentive is the fact people need to work to survive and so they take whatever work is available (which I believe is wrong). Why would someone take jobs like that in a communistic society?

A lot of jobs are given negative stigmas due to pop culture and desire to be high class. Sure some jobs are not a lot of fun but they must be done. Since we are now working simply to keep of with demand the hours required of everyone will be vastly reduced. Also, since you are not competing for a position, the unemployed workforce should next to none. Members of a community will be placed in positions they A) want to do and B) are good at. Hopefully everyone will be given a job they are happy to go every day. But, there will be those that get stuck in the less desirable positions. Since this is a cooperative, everyone will have their time of doing a not so pleasant task. Sure, it's a bit of discomfort, but it's only a little and it's probably the only thing (seriously, the only thing) you will have to complain about.



5. Laziness
What would be the incentive to work at all? Will those who don't work be be punished? (Not being condescending) If they cannot work it would be a different story though correct?

The hours necessary to sustain the community will be vast reduced. Everyone will only need to work a fraction of what they do now. If that isn't enough incentive to obtain everything you could want, well...

I have read that punishment is frowned upon in communism. If someone still wants to be a drain on society when very little is actually desired of them, I suppose the community has a few options. They could cut off the leach from services - after all, if they are intentionally not helping out the community, why should the community help them? They could force him to work- possibly like an american jail is set up now (just not for profit) and offer rehabilitation courses in attempt to reach in and pull out the helping spirit hidden deep down.



Yes I am new to this so I am sorry if I seem stupid or ignorant, and I'm not trying to argue I just want to learn. Answers would be greatly appreciated so I can better understand these ideas! Thanks!

Don't be sorry at all. We are all hear to learn. The only way to understand something is learn, what better way to learn than to ask others with similar interests?

[Blake's Baby]

Welcome to the forums Always Curious.

I'm afraid I'm going to hve to respectfully disagree with some of the answers you've been given.


Obviously communism rids of the monetary system (correct?) which I fully agree with. I believe things should be made for the benefit and need of the people, not for the profit of a few. However I do have a few concerns (if you can call them that)
1. Choice
Sorry if this is stupid, but lets say that Billy wants to go to the store and get some food. Will he still have the option to get whatever he wants or do people choose what he gets?...

'still' have the option to get whatever he wants? Are you implying this is an option under capitalism?

There have been some answers I think that have suggested that Billy can have whatever he wants, that no-one 'choses' what he eats, or that he has free choice of what is 'available'.

In which the case, the question I suspect would be recursive and become 'who decides/how is the decision made about what is available to Billy?' (in other words, 'does someone chose what Billy eats?').

Yes, 'someone' does. In capitalism, that 'someone' is the aggregate of the purchasing managers of the food-shops that Billy frequents. Chances are that means Billy can easily get his hands on beans and sausages but not so much kumquats and venison. Even if every single possible foodstuff produced in the world is available in every locality in capitalism (it isn't, I can't get truffles from any of my local shops) then it's still rationed by price. Billy might not be able to afford Peruvian hickory-smoked llama-fetus, but he can afford mechanically-recovered chickenburgers.

In socialist society, I suspect the community as a whole will be in the business of putting in orders for certain foodstuffs. I think if Billy wants kumquats and venison or Peruvian hickory-smoked llama fetus, he needs to have them added to the community's weekly food-order (or however the process actually works). The point is that such 'purchasing' is done collectively rather than by the individuals who make up the purchasing departments of local shops. A bit like if all the customers for the local shops cut out the middle-men and dispensed with the shops and purchasing departments, and collectively dealt with the wholesalers. In other ways, not so much like that. But it's a useful way to think about it at least.






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2. Amount
Inevitably people will be selfish and want a lot. More than is sustainable. How would this be prevented if things are "free"? (maybe I don't understand how items would get into the hands of the people) If there was a limit set how would it be enforced and who would decide that limit?...

Well, several people have already asked 'why would people be selfish?'

If the community has decided that it needs 150 loaves of bread a day, on the basis that the people there need more or less half a loaf each on average, why should someone take more than their share? If at the community meeting, Albert Noggin said 'actually, I need more than half a loaf, I think we should get some extra' then there's no reason for the community not to agree and for Albert to assigned extra bread.


...3. Luxury Items
How would things such as televisions be handled? What I mean by this is how would it be decided who gets these televisions, how many they'd get etc? This goes for all luxury items...

The community would put in a requisition. If 50 people in the community say 'we need new televisions' then the community orders 50 televisions. If one person says 'I need 50 televisions' then the rest of the community says 'why?', I would think.

That goes for other things like aeroplanes, full-size replicas of the Statue of Liberty made of gold, CAT scanners and nuclear weapons.




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4. Dirty Jobs
What would be the incentive for people to do jobs such as be a janitor, exterminator, sewer manager etc.? Right now the incentive is the fact people need to work to survive and so they take whatever work is available (which I believe is wrong). Why would someone take jobs like that in a communistic society?...

Those jobs would still need to be done somehow. If people want to live somewhere nice they need to work to keep it nice. Simple as.

I think we should all muck in to start with. People are talking about robots and all sorts of sci-fi stuff. Socialist society isn't some far-off future. Socialist society is possible now, with the technological developments capitalism has already produced. But it won't, in the beginning, be a society of leisure. We'll all work less (except the unemployed, who'll work more) but we will still work (and before anyone goes on about 'the abolition of work' I'm using 'work' to mean 'the expenditure of energy towards a certain goal' not 'alienated human activity'). If the possibility of socialist society relies on arse-wiping robots then we're doomed.





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5. Laziness
What would be the incentive to work at all? Will those who don't work be be punished? (Not being condescending) If they cannot work it would be a different story though correct?...

Again, the incentive to work is living in a nice envirnoment. We could decide we want to live in horrible polluted hell-holes (though I expect neighbouring communities might complain) but why would we? If we actually had the power to make things better, why would we not exercise it?

Communist society is predicated on 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need'. When this is brought up, there's usually a lot of focus on 'what is need? What if I decide I need Ferraris, cocaine and hookers, who are you stop me, commie-fascist?' and not so much on 'what does it actually mean?'.

I think it means if you do not contribute according to your abilities, then you do not have your needs met. But I'm quite hard-line in some ways. So, the free-access society is fundamentally dependent on one thing; people making it happen. The point is collectively we work for a better future. There is no 'higher power' granting or not granting these things. It's us. If we don't work to make our lives better our lives will not be better, simple as. Not because the Central Committee of Commissars of the People's Council has decreed that they won't be better, but because if we don't pick the rubbish up, there'll be rubbish on the floor.


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Yes I am new to this so I am sorry if I seem stupid or ignorant, and I'm not trying to argue I just want to learn. Answers would be greatly appreciated so I can better understand these ideas! Thanks!

Asking questions is good.

[Comrade #138672]

Dirty jobs? We would all contribute to that, as long as it has not been fully automated, so that each person only needs to do dirty jobs for, say, one or two hours a week or so.

Many families already do the same thing within their households. We would simply expand on that and extend it to the whole of society.

[Always Curious J]

1. "Why would anybody choose what Billy eats? Billy is welcome to anything that is available to him."
Just clearing up that food and such items aren't somehow "rationed"

2. "Why exactly would someone be selfish? Having 3 loaves of bread on day 1 does not make you more advantaged than someone who gets 1 loaf of bread a day for 3 days."
What I meant by this is what would stop crazy Joe from going to the store and taking 50 loaves of bread? Would it simply be social pressures or would there be a physical system used to stop him?


5. "Production would no longer be for a profit and items could be freely made. If you want a TV and there isn't one available you could probably request one or something, but I cant think of anything that would prevent someone from getting any item."
Ok sounds good. However, if, say, there was only 30 TVs (due to any reason like shortages) how would it be decided who gets those TVs?

6. "I couldn't tell you on this one. I'm sure that these jobs could go to the people that honestly just don't mind it as much as the rest of people."
I have seen here and thought myself that it could be dealt in a couple ways such as 1. Those who refuse to work are given these jobs (not my favorite idea) 2. People could choose not to clean, however the community would go to crap and people would rather just do the work or 3. Everyone could be assigned a certain amount of hours to work these jobs. Somewhat like chores in a household.


8. "No worries! I know my responses were rather mediocre, so feel free to ask specifically on any point and I hope other board members chime in!"
Thanks! And couldn't quite get the quote system to work my bad!

[Deity]

1. "Why would anybody choose what Billy eats? Billy is welcome to anything that is available to him."
Just clearing up that food and such items aren't somehow "rationed"

2. "Why exactly would someone be selfish? Having 3 loaves of bread on day 1 does not make you more advantaged than someone who gets 1 loaf of bread a day for 3 days."What I meant by this is what would stop crazy Joe from going to the store and taking 50 loaves of bread? Would it simply be social pressures or would there be a physical system used to stop him?

I'm not sure why Joe would take 50 loaves, but there should be nothing more than social pressure to act reasonably.

Although some members on this board disagree, I don't believe we, as people, need restrictions or punishments. The hope would be that when you truly start to live with your community you could begin to care about your community.



5. "Production would no longer be for a profit and items could be freely made. If you want a TV and there isn't one available you could probably request one or something, but I cant think of anything that would prevent someone from getting any item.Ok sounds good. However, if, say, there was only 30 TVs (due to any reason like shortages) how would it be decided who gets those TVs?

Well then whoever has a TV has one, and everyone else can make a request and wait.


6. "I couldn't tell you on this one. I'm sure that these jobs could go to the people that honestly just don't mind it as much as the rest of people."
I have seen here and thought myself that it could be dealt in a couple ways such as 1. Those who refuse to work are given these jobs (not my favorite idea) 2. People could choose not to clean, however the community would go to crap and people would rather just do the work or 3. Everyone could be assigned a certain amount of hours to work these jobs. Somewhat like chores in a household.


8. "No worries! I know my responses were rather mediocre, so feel free to ask specifically on any point and I hope other board members chime in!"
Thanks! And couldn't quite get the quote system to work my bad!

Its all good, The quoting is a bit complicated at first haha