Israel Bombs Syria, Again

[freepalestine]

Israel Bombs Syria, Again



By As'ad AbuKhalil - Sun, 2013-05-05 10:38- Angry Corner


There is no mystery anymore. Israel has been a major player in the Syrian conflict. The Syrian conflict has been an open arena for all the enemies of Syria – dubbed for historical irony as “friends of Syria” – to help themselves to the destruction of Syria the country and not the regime. In fact, all the enemies of Syria would have preferred a deal that would keep the regime intact in order to reassure Israel.

Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey were the visible players in Syria, but US and Israel were not far behind (or ahead). After all, the Western media are quite explicit that Qatar and Saudi Arabia would not act without the consent and orders from the White House. This is the second major bombing by Israel in Syria, but Israel has been most likely – as it was in Iraq – complicit in the assassinations of Syrian scientists and its opponents. There has never been a civil war or an internal conflict in the Arab world in which Israel has not played a major role. Some American media noted the presence of Mossad agents in Syria; Free Syrian Army gangs have been working with them.


The US and Israel have decided that the war criminal gangs of the FSA are the chosen militias that can receive US (and presumably Israeli) military aid. Those are very much like the warlords of Afghanistan: criminals who are willing to chant the right slogans and to issue the right press releases in return for large sums of cash and Western assistance.

Watching Saudi and Qatari media today was a return to the past: the spokespeople (let us call them spokesmen as they all are men in this pitiful “revolution” that was ostensibly led by secular and feminist women, according to the early pre-prepared narrative in the Western media and college campus presentations) of the Syrian exile opposition were actually gleeful that their country is being bombed by Israel. They used the same language that Bashir Gemayyel used to justify his relationship with Israel during the long years of the Lebanese civil war (and prior). They spoke about accepting help from anyone, “even Satan.” We know this code language. And some spokesmen of the opposition started to play their assigned role in the Israeli psychological operation by suddenly announcing that “large sections” of the Syrian Army have started to defect basically as soon as the bombing had begun.

This was never a “revolution”. I among other leftists in Lebanon signed a petition early on after the events in Deraa in which we denounced the regime and mocked and dismissed its narrative of armed groups roaming the country and shooting at people. I now figure that I was dead wrong: I do believe that armed groups were pre-prepared and armed to strike when orders (from Israel and GCC countries) arrive. They had a mission and it had nothing to do with the cause of liberation of Syria from a tyrannical regime.
The regime is still silent; probably resorting to its dreaded line about determining “the time and place of the battle with Israel.” But the battle never comes and responses to Israeli attacks never come either. The Golan is still occupied and the regime (like the opposition) is only willing to use its firepower inside Syria (or inside Lebanon in previous years) but not against Israel. Similarly, the Syrian armed groups have been flirting with Israel for a while now and their game has been exposed today. Their token statement of “neutrality” is belied by the statements of opposition “activists” on various opposition Facebook pages.


The US government and media play their usual roles. Never question what Israel does anywhere in the world. Justifications are provided instantly, and it was not a coincidence that the New York Times had a front page story about poor little Israel and how it has to fend for itself to defend itself from the conflict and turmoil in Syria. Only a week ago, David Ignatius of the Washington Post, having received different propaganda marching orders from the Israeli government, reported that Israel was in fact calm and just enjoying the carnage in Syria.


The conflict in Syria has long been outside of the hands of the Syrian people. It is not that a local-internal conflict became regional and international over a two years period. No, it was regional-international from the start. The US and its clients in the Arab counter-revolution movement were ready to steer Arab uprisings in a direction that pleases US and Israel. The fall of Mubarak required the fall of the Assad regime although the US and Israel are discovering that they can continue to do business with the Muslim Brotherhood.

This is not to say that the Syrian people don’t have more than a hundred reasons to overthrow the Syrian regime. They do, but this was not about the underlying causes of revolt in Syria. The Qatari, Saudi, Turkish, Israeli, and US beef with the Syrian regime was never about democracy. The Syrian regime had brutally repressed revolts and uprisings before and there were no criticisms heard and the Saudi government (and later the Qatari) was willing to bankroll the Assad dynasty provided that the two work together in Lebanon and in the region.

It is not that the there is no Syrian revolution (and there is not), but the outcome of the conflict in Syria is now certainly not going to be democratic. You can make that prediction on the basis of the sponsors of the “revolutionaries” and the ideology (and practices) of the active armed groups in Syria. But the Syrian armed groups are being fooled by US and Israel into thinking that the Syrian throne is now within their reach, while the two sides hope for a longer protracted conflict that would exhaust and fatigue the entire Syrian nation and would distract them from considering harming Israeli interests.

The Syrian regime has shown in the past that it was willing to do business under the table with Israel. The Syrian National Coalition and all the active armed groups in Syria have proven that they are willing to align with Israel before they reach power and to do business over the table. That can only bode ill for the future of Syria.
http://english.al-akhbar.com/blogs/angry-corner/israel-bombs-syria-again

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Can we just go ahead and claim that any popular movement anywhere on the planet is actually an Israeli psyop in advance, just so I can stop reading it in every article that gets posted.

[Paul Pott]

Sure, just like we claimed that the Syrian rebellion is still somehow a popular revolution.

[Tim Cornelis]

Sure, just like we claimed that the Syrian rebellion is still somehow a popular revolution.

It isn't? It is a mass cross-class revolution, that is a popular revolution.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Sure, just like we claimed that the Syrian rebellion is still somehow a popular revolution.

I mean the protests before the war and the early street fighting, which the author and countless others like him apparently now believe was a Zionist plot all along. But I agree with Tim, if it was not still a popular movement it would have been crushed months ago no matter how much foreign support they're receiving.

[hatzel]

did u read the articles. where does he say it a zionist plot.

Ah...


This was never a “revolution”. I among other leftists in Lebanon signed a petition early on after the events in Deraa in which we denounced the regime and mocked and dismissed its narrative of armed groups roaming the country and shooting at people. I now figure that I was dead wrong: I do believe that armed groups were pre-prepared and armed to strike when orders (from Israel and GCC countries) arrive. They had a mission and it had nothing to do with the cause of liberation of Syria from a tyrannical regime.

That's literally exactly what it says...

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

did u read the articles. where does he say it a zionist plot.u r either oblivious to history in arab countrys or u just an apologist for zionism.
i guess it was the syrians who bombed syria

My response was for this "This was never a “revolution”. I among other leftists in Lebanon signed a petition early on after the events in Deraa in which we denounced the regime and mocked and dismissed its narrative of armed groups roaming the country and shooting at people. I now figure that I was dead wrong: I do believe that armed groups were pre-prepared and armed to strike when orders (from Israel and GCC countries) arrive. They had a mission and it had nothing to do with the cause of liberation of Syria from a tyrannical regime."

Anyhow I'm not an apologist for anything, Israel using the rebels doesn't mean anything in the long run. When the time comes they'll be more than happy to kill them as well I'm sure. It's likely that the regime was taking too long to collapse and they just want to speed it along so they can begin that next phase.

[Rafiq]

Now, now, the article states "Israel *and* GCC countries". Seeing that gulf states are not "zionist pawns" and are states with their own geopolitical interests, I can hardly think the author implied it was a "zionist plot". It would, after all, not be such a far fetched notion to say that Israel has somewhat of an interest when one regards Syria, that is not anti semitism. Now if someone went along saying that, for example, unrest in europe was Israel's even *partial* doing than a point would stand: Israel as a middle eastern state has little to nothing to do with the domestic affairs of bourgeois states abroad. But a country like Syria, no doubt they could very well be arming rebels, though I doubt they are "behind" them.

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[blake 3:17]

so why did the zionists get involve

Turf war. Chance to flex muscles and get away with it. Nobody else could bomb Syria without facing massive repercussions. Except they're coming.

[blake 3:17]

Anyhow I'm not an apologist for anything, Israel using the rebels doesn't mean anything in the long run. When the time comes they'll be more than happy to kill them as well I'm sure. It's likely that the regime was taking too long to collapse and they just want to speed it along so they can begin that next phase.

This is nuts from a socialist perspective. It assumes some sort of natural progress of how the world unfolds, and that it is naturally for the better.

From the Jerusalem Post:


McCain: Israeli strikes could force Obama to act on Syria

Republican senator says alleged Israeli air strikes will put more pressure on Obama administration to intervene in Syria: "Every day that goes by, Hezbollah increases their influence and the radical jihadists flow into Syria."WASHINGTON - Israel's air strikes on Syria could add pressure on the Obama administration to intervene in Syria, a key Republican said on Sunday, but the US government faces tough questions on how it can help without adding to the conflict.

Hours after Israeli jets bombed Syria on Sunday for the second time in 48 hours, several top US lawmakers voiced concern over the cascading uncertainty in the Middle East where a civil war has been raging in Syria for more than two years.

Republican Senator John McCain said the latest Israeli air strikes, described by a Western source as attacks on Iranian missiles bound for Lebanon's Hezbollah, will just put more pressure on the administration to act although President Barack Obama has said he has no plans to send ground troops to Syria.

We need to have a game-changing action, and that is no American boots on the ground, establish a safe zone and to protect it and to supply weapons to the right people in Syria who are fighting, obviously, for the things we believe," McCain said on "Fox News Sunday."

[Agathor]

so why did the zionists get involve

Israel is exploiting Syria's civil war paralysis to attack Hezbollah's supply lines.

Fin.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

This is nuts from a socialist perspective. It assumes some sort of natural progress of how the world unfolds, and that it is naturally for the better.

I think you've read really deep into something that's not even there friend.

[blake 3:17]

I think you've read really deep into something that's not even there friend.

Maybe, yeah. I actually have no idea what you were saying.

[Comrade Nasser]

It's a land battle. Israel is hungry as it's not enough just taking land from Palestinians and Egyptians and other Arabs now they wan't a bit of poor Syria. Nothing will stop them from creating greater Israel.

http://nogw.com/images/greater_israel.gif

[Comrade Nasser]

Israel is exploiting Syria's civil war paralysis to attack Hezbollah's supply lines.

Fin.

The reason they are getting afraid of the disgusting Hezbollah terror militia is that they are not the little militia that was created in Lebanon to protect Shias from Sunnis and christians years ago in their own civil war. They are larger than ever now. And with foreign aid and weaponry pouring in for them from their shia brothers in Iran they could probably be a thorn in Israels side.

[Tifosi]

It's a land battle. Israel is hungry as it's not enough just taking land from Palestinians and Egyptians and other Arabs now they wan't a bit of poor Syria. Nothing will stop them from creating greater Israel.

http://nogw.com/images/greater_israel.gif

Yea, Israel isn't trying to stretch it's borders from the Nile to the Euphrates. This was to try and stop arms from reaching groups like Hezbollah.

[Paul Pott]

In fact, there have been signs Israel may use the civil war to expand further into Syria, just like they originally stole the Golan heights.

[Paul Pott]

I mean the protests before the war and the early street fighting, which the author and countless others like him apparently now believe was a Zionist plot all along. But I agree with Tim, if it was not still a popular movement it would have been crushed months ago no matter how much foreign support they're receiving.

The contradiction between the Syrian state and the masses has been superseded by others. Now it is between Alawi Shiite/Christian and Sunni, town A and town B, those who want a united secular Syria and various groups who agree on little except Sharia and killing Assad. The loyalists have a popular base just as the rebels do, including a great number of Sunnis.

Syria in 2013 is a different ballgame than Syria in 2011. The popular councils in rebel areas that had some sort of influence on paper way back when have been replaced by religious courts.

The majority of Syrians want an end to the war, and sometimes that has meant becoming loyalist. Defections from the army to the rebels have ceased, and there are actually some going the other way at this point. Rebel factions are now fighting each other, just as the government has recaptured many areas that were under rebel control for a long time.

If current trends continue, Assad will probably win.

[Rafiq]

In fact, there have been signs Israel may use the civil war to expand further into Syria, just like they originally stole the Golan heights.

A territorial expansion would not serve the Israeli state well. The Golan heights, barely populated, is hardly a signification of any ambitions for conquest. What the hell is Israel to do with more land? This isn't the damned antiquity, we're living in a world of global capitalism! Have you any idea of the magnitude of problems that would make for the Israeli state? They're barely fairing in this whole Palestinian refugee buisness... But the entirety of the Levant?

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[Paul Pott]

Don't get me wrong, if Israel were ever to escape uncle Sam's leash, it would attempt to colonize much larger swaths of the middle east than it currently occupies, and it would go beyond just ethnic cleansing. But I don't think that map reflects anything that will ever happen.

In Syria, there has been much talk of an Israeli intervention to establish a "buffer zone" between Syria and the Golan Heights. The next thing you know, they'd be ejecting the legitimate population and building settlements there, as in the West Bank.

This isn't antiquity, but as far as Zionism is concerned, it is. If international order ever broke down, Israel would annex Palestine, recapture the Sinai, and annex and depopulate Jordan. In every major conflict Israel seizes more and more land.

[Sasha]

You have lost all touch with reality, next el Salvador will conquer the US...

[Sasha]

Oh, and (in retaliation?) Assad bombed a Palestinian refugee camp, again.

Funny I have not seen any mention of that, again...

[blake 3:17]

Oh, and (in retaliation?) Assad bombed a Palestinian refugee camp, again.

Funny I have not seen any mention of that, again...

When? Where?

[Sasha]

When? Where?

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=44794&Cr=&Cr1=#.UYdmUZ5S50I

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News/2013/May/3%20n/1267%20Palestinians%20killed%20in%20Syria%20since% 20the%20outbreak%20of%20the%20%20revolution.htm

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/04/09/when-the-yarmouk-palestinian-camp-fled/

[Sasha]

To note, in 2 years the Syrian regime killed about as much Palestinians as Israel during the whole 5 years of the second intifada...
Not to excuse any Israeli action but just to supply some context..

[The Cheshire Cat]

To note, in 2 years the Syrian regime killed about as much Palestinians as Israel during the whole 5 years of the second intifada...
Not to excuse any Israeli action but just to supply some context..

Do you happen to know why Assad killed so many Palestinians/bombed refugee camps?

[Sasha]

Hamas (as a muslim brotherhood aligned group) and other sunni Palestinian factions deserted assad early in the uprising and joined forces/expressed sympathy with the FSA.

Yarmouk refugee camp near Damascus is more or less completely under rebel control, other camps are more divided/switch.

[Luís Henrique]

Israel is exploiting Syria's civil war paralysis to attack Hezbollah's supply lines.

Fin.

It quite certainly is doing that. But it is also doing something else: it is giving Butcher Assad a chance to call for national unity against the foreign agressor, and consequently to put the opposition into a difficult situation.

Luís Henrique

[Sasha]

It quite certainly is doing that. But it is also doing something else: it is giving Butcher Assad a chance to call for national unity against the foreign agressor, and consequently to put the opposition into a difficult situation.

Luís Henrique

The Syrian regimes medleing in Lebanon is very unpopular in syria save under the shiite minority, even a lot of christians/druze and alawi who in general are more regime loyal have more solidarity with their respective factions in Lebanon so it might actually be beneficial to Israel than not.

[hatzel]

it is giving Butcher Assad a chance to call for national unity against the foreign agressor, and consequently to put the opposition into a difficult situation.

In fact I have heard some fringe voices suggesting that Israel are actually starting to come down on the side of Assad - knowing that he hasn't really caused any trouble on the Israeli-Syrian front, whilst the rebels are a largely unknown quantity who could potentially depart from Assad's 'hawkish words, dovish actions'-approach, - and that the attack was an intentional attempt to discredit the opposition. Whilst I consider that suggestion pretty unlikely, it's equally unlikely that Israel (and its allies) wouldn't have anticipated such a reaction, considering nigh-on every regime in the region endeavours to paint itself as some glorious anti-Zionist vanguard any time stuff gets hairy at home, and uses these (supposed) credentials to 'rally the troops' behind them, so to speak. Assad is doing precisely the same thing here, which is entirely predictable because that's been his modus operandi for years.

With that in mind, I think it would be foolish to consider this some unilateral Israeli action, because it's far too dangerous a move to be carried out on a limb. There would have been consultation with other members of the Frankenstein coalition that seems to be forming in support of the opposition, Turkish, Qatari or American strategists must have given a green light, either to this particular action, or more generally, allowing Israel to attack as and when it feels it is necessary. Given the potential fallout from any Israeli military action in Syria (which should be obvious to anybody), I refuse to believe that Israel would not have been placed under pretty strict orders to keep its nose well and truly out, and it would be pure folly to disregard such restrictions at this time (and in such a dramatic way), at the risk of alienating Turkey in particular, and undoing the ongoing Israel-Turkey reconciliation process that seems to have everything to do with Syria-Iran. That Israel did intervene certainly suggests that they were given free rein to do so. (The same can be said of Syria: if they choose to retaliate - I don't think they will, mind you - it will not be against the wishes of Russia or Iran, neither of which would let the conflict escalate without their say-so)

Actually I wouldn't be at all surprised if certain sections of the Arab League weren't secretly celebrating this, even if they're crying crocodile tears in public, probably just to save face rather than singing the praises of the very same 'public enemy no. 1' they have long claimed to oppose. Remember, it wasn't so long ago they were actively calling for foreign intervention against Assad, so don't buy into all this chitter-chatter about 'violation of Syrian territorial integrity' or whatever it is they're talking about, because they were themselves demanding it, and now they've got it. If Wikileaks taught us anything about Israel's place in the Middle East, it's that many of the regimes and organisations that publicly denounce Israel are far more supportive in private, when they don't have to worry about the loyalty of their subjects or distracting them with empty promises of some 'greater prize'...

[Geiseric]

Wow what a clusterfuck. Everybody make sure to support the inevitable hundreds of thousands of refugees from this crisis.

[blake 3:17]

psycho -- thanks so much. It appears to have not been very widely reported...


Do you happen to know why Assad killed so many Palestinians/bombed refugee camps?

All of the Arab elites love the Palestinians as propaganda tools, just not as actual people. See the recent floodings of the tunnels into Gaza by the Egyptian "revolutionaries"... Morsi's the same as Mubarak.

My guess would be that people in the camps were either acting independently or that there were rumours that they were. Just a guess.

[blake 3:17]

Wow what a clusterfuck. Everybody make sure to support the inevitable hundreds of thousands of refugees from this crisis.

Totally. And when are calling for throwing arms into unknown hands? WTF? Great! Clusterfuck + more weapons = :eek: x a gazillion

[ckaihatsu]

t would be foolish to consider this some unilateral Israeli action, because it's far too dangerous a move to be carried out on a limb. There would have been consultation with other members of the Frankenstein coalition that seems to be forming in support of the opposition, Turkish, Qatari or American strategists must have given a green light, either to this particular action, or more generally, allowing Israel to attack as and when it feels it is necessary. Given the potential fallout from any Israeli military action in Syria (which should be obvious to anybody), I refuse to believe that Israel would not have been placed under pretty strict orders to keep its nose well and truly out, and it would be pure folly to disregard such restrictions at this time (and in such a dramatic way), at the risk of alienating Turkey in particular, and undoing the ongoing Israel-Turkey reconciliation process that seems to have everything to do with Syria-Iran. That Israel [I]did intervene certainly suggests that they were given free rein to do so. (The same can be said of Syria: if they choose to retaliate - I don't think they will, mind you - it will not be against the wishes of Russia or Iran, neither of which would let the conflict escalate without their say-so)


So that means everyone should please stop using the corporate-media-approved term of "civil war" since this is most obviously a *proxy* war.

[l'Enfermé]

The Wahhabists and Ikwhanists need aid to liberate Syria from secularism. Who will aid them? Oh, of course, the Zionists!

It's a love story.

[Sasha]

The Wahhabists and Ikwhanists need aid to liberate Syria from secularism. Who will aid them? Oh, of course, the Zionists!

It's a love story.

Yeah, because the current dictatorship with its ethno-supremacy enshrined in its constitution is so much better than MB style Islamism right?

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Yeah, because the current dictatorship with its ethno-supremacy enshrined in its constitution is so much better than MB style Islamism right?

How about we agree that at this point comparing quantitative differences isn't really conductive to productive analysis and that both sides do not represent anything in the way of the interests of the people of Syria

[Le Socialiste]

How about we agree that at this point comparing quantitative differences isn't really conductive to productive analysis and that both sides do not represent anything in the way of the interests of the people of Syria

Yeah, no. How about we support those elements within the rebellion that are genuinely resisting oppression against Assad and the Islamists? Or is that not good enough?

I've seen posts that essentially come down to "well, Syria in 2013 is a different animal than Syria was in 2011" - in what way? Beyond the necessity of protesters arming themselves against state-sanctioned violence and the prevalence of foreign-backed jihadists, there still remains elements within the movement worthy of critical support. The people who initially protested in the streets haven't gone away, they're an integral part of the struggle. They're organizing.

The situation is Syria is tricky, yes, but some of y'all really need to reassess your original thoughts on the matter.

[Paul Pott]

Indeed, the only part of the opposition remotely worthy of support is the NCC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Coordination_Committee_for_Democratic_Cha nge). They're on very shitty terms with the FSA factions that matter.

Our views here should take a lesson from Colombia. We must call for a peace with concessions, and Assad has indicated he would agree to that. But armed rebel factions will settle for nothing less than his head, and there lies the problem.

The point most of us are trying to make is that the Arab Spring in Syria is dead, and has been for a while. The paradigm you keep clinging to is outdated.

[blake 3:17]

So that means everyone should please stop using the corporate-media-approved term of "civil war" since this is most obviously a *proxy* war.

Isn't it both? I'm with BG -- "clusterfuck" that peeps should keep there hands off of is best.

In a brief but lively chat with a brother on May Day, we were in agreement on Syria, and his words were "Do no harm." Seems the right call.

[Comrade Nasser]

Lets hope the syrians respond .

Highly doubt this FP. Al-Assad's not that stupid. If he charges and attacks Israel guns and bombs blazing and even harms a hair on Israels head he will be almost surely criticized and bombarded by the U.N which may cause a NATO intervention what with all the mention of supposed WMD & Chemical use. Besides Assad has his hands full with the rebels and the civil war.

Honestly this is turning into Iraq 2.0 minus the NATO intervention (which may happen soon anyways) and add a whole menagerie of foreign militants, Islamist, NWO (new world order) shills, and mercenaries that cluster together to form the rebels. Saddam will be played by Mr. Assad and George will be played by Mr. Obama.

[La Guaneña]

Things just seem to get uglier by the minute over there, I don't even know what to think anymore.

[Sudsy]

Apparently Israel is bombing Syrian missiles that are meant for Hezbollah. We don`t know much yet but I doubt that because Israel`s interest in toppling Assad is clear, with NATO`s help they could easily create a western controlled state friendly to Israel. But still I can`t prove the missiles were or were not meant for Hezbollah, I`m only speculating.

[Le Socialiste]

They have been attacked by the zionists.imo they should hit them back.

...And Assad would be gone in a matter of weeks. What real interest is there for Israel to further destabilize - and potentially ruin - one of the more 'stable' Arab regimes in the region? Assad proved more beneficial to Israeli security than some give him credit for. If Israel really had to choose it'd probably either prefer Assad or some variant of his administration, rather than a potentially radical (much less hostile) Syria in his stead.

Oh, and thanks for 'neg-repping' me. ;)

[blake 3:17]

They have been attacked by the zionists.imo they should hit them back.

They'd be right to. But... The US and various "friends" in Europe will just use it as a chance to bomb the fuck out of whoever they want to.

[The Intransigent Faction]

They'd be right to. But... The US and various "friends" in Europe will just use it as a chance to bomb the fuck out of whoever they want to.

They won't just do that regardless?

[Geiseric]

Indeed, the only part of the opposition remotely worthy of support is the NCC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Coordination_Committee_for_Democratic_Cha nge). They're on very shitty terms with the FSA factions that matter.

Our views here should take a lesson from Colombia. We must call for a peace with concessions, and Assad has indicated he would agree to that. But armed rebel factions will settle for nothing less than his head, and there lies the problem.

The point most of us are trying to make is that the Arab Spring in Syria is dead, and has been for a while. The paradigm you keep clinging to is outdated.

Who are you to say that? People in Egypt, Algeria (where the Arab spring ACTUALLY started), Tunisia, Iran, Iraq, and Palestine are still demonstrating daily against NATO intervention.

Assad is the aggressor though; he is the one who ordered troops to sick like Pitt Bulls on the protesters years ago. Back then the same assholes on the forum were calling them Islamists in a similarly ignorant way. There are some things that the forum needs to realize are correct positions, that all communists should take. Positions that are principled basically.

[Geiseric]

They have been attacked by the zionists.imo they should hit them back.

Lol world war three? are you nuts?

[Comrade Nasser]

They won't just do that regardless?

No they will, but Syria attacking Israel would give them extra 'Justification' so that the public will hop on the bandwagon of "Lets Nuke Syria! Israel has a right to defend itself!"

[Paul Pott]

Who are you to say that? People in Egypt, Algeria (where the Arab spring ACTUALLY started), Tunisia, Iran, Iraq, and Palestine are still demonstrating daily against NATO intervention.

To say what? How did it start in Algeria?


Assad is the aggressor though; he is the one who ordered troops to sick like Pitt Bulls on the protesters years ago.

Yes but the fallacy here is the idea that the rebels = the people. It's not that simple, even when we consider only Sunnis. The rebels are every bit the aggressor in this war, now more so than Assad since they refuse any possibility of peace. What so many fail to realize is that the armed rebellion against Assad was from the beginning partly a coup by Sunni factions in the army. Then jihadists became the main rebel muscle.


There are some things that the forum needs to realize are correct positions, that all communists should take. Positions that are principled basically.

Chief among them never politically aligning with imperialist capital's proxy forces, be they Syrian rebels, Libyan rebels, or Nicaraguan contras (yeah, some on the "left" did).

The international and Syrian left's stance in this war should be to support an end to the conflict. Not encourage the rebels war as if it were progressive and revolutionary, because it gets farther from that with every passing day.

[Sasha]

How about we agree that at this point comparing quantitative differences isn't really conductive to productive analysis and that both sides do not represent anything in the way of the interests of the people of Syria


sure, but please tell that to the people here (falsely) painting any and all opposition as evil islamists itching to establish a theocratic caliphate while singing the praise of the current regime as a beacon of progressive secularism that should be preserved and propped up at all costs.
the fact is that the the regime is not only defacto a racist capitalist shithole, ethnic-supremacy and other stuff people would never excuse in "western" nations is a fundamental principle in the constitution atm.
you kind of lose the right to go off about evil zionists if you yourself are propping up a regime that has this in her constitution;



The Syrian Arab Republic is proud of its Arab identity and the fact that its people are an integral part of the Arab nation. The Syrian Arab Republic embodies this belonging in its national and pan-Arab project and the work to support Arab cooperation in order to promote integration and achieve the unity of the Arab nation.
[...]
Article 1
The Syrian Arab Republic is a democratic state with full sovereignty, indivisible, and may not waive any part of its territory, and is part of the Arab homeland; The people of Syria are part of the Arab nation.
[...]
Article 3
The religion of the President of the Republic is Islam; Islamic jurisprudence shall be a major source of legislation
http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?docid=5100f02a2

yeah, all those kurds and other ethnic and religious minorities have some much to lose with the gamble of ditching Assad, because islamists and zionists might come and take their current ethnic and religious equality away.. oh wait...

and dont start me on womens rights either:

Article 20
1. The family shall be the nucleus of society and the law shall maintain its existence and strengthen its ties;
2. The state shall protect and encourage marriage, and shall work on removing material and social obstacles that hinder it.

and to think that all the really nasty shit about swearing allegiance to the Baath party and making it a crime to oppose baathism and such was removed only in 2012, i wonder what triggered that concession???

[blake 3:17]

They won't just do that regardless?

They do need excuses, whether it is Monica Lewinsky or... No, I'm being flip. This is 9/11 shit, even if in this case it is entirely justified. If Syria drops a bomb on Israel, the pigs will screw up Beirut, Tehran, and where else? Caracas? Probably. With probable cause. Wish it were a joke.

[Le Socialiste]

Yes but the fallacy here is the idea that the rebels = the people. It's not that simple, even when we consider only Sunnis. The rebels are every bit the aggressor in this war, now more so than Assad since they refuse any possibility of peace. What so many fail to realize is that the armed rebellion against Assad was from the beginning partly a coup by Sunni factions in the army. Then jihadists became the main rebel muscle.

Chief among them never politically aligning with imperialist capital's proxy forces, be they Syrian rebels, Libyan rebels, or Nicaraguan contras (yeah, some on the "left" did).

The international and Syrian left's stance in this war should be to support an end to the conflict. Not encourage the rebels war as if it were progressive and revolutionary, because it gets farther from that with every passing day.

*Sigh*...

I'm done repeating myself. I'm just gonna direct people to the following post (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2514464&postcount=45) (made several months ago about this very issue):


The situation in Syria is far more complex than what people have said here, with the exception of a few. Thus it becomes necessary to look at each and every side, not as monolithic entities devoid of internal diversity and differences, but as an ever shifting movement composed of an array of class forces. There are a lot of pieces moving around, ranging from the Free Syrian Army to the Local Coordinating Committees based in the communities and neighborhoods throughout Syria. Even these two, arguably the backbone of the movement to oust Assad, are made up a variety of political and ideological differences. Y'all back the Syrian working-class? It's in the Local Coordinating Committees, the same councils that organized - and continue to organize - regular street protests against the current regime, provide for community members, and work in tandem with the FSA and a number of other armed groups. The FSA isn't altogether unified in its aims and longterm purpose; rather, its composition (loosely-connected groups of fighters) renders it a diverse body centralized around Assad's ouster.

The international community has little to no influence over the course of the civil war, though they may try to sway it one way or another. The U.S. and its allies have only been able to supply small firearms through countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey, but the bulk of these weapons are acquired via the black market. While the powers-that-be would like nothing more than a movement dominated by friendly interests, their reach and pull are minimal at best. They're more interested in overthrowing Assad, and are less concerned with the composition of a movement that is beyond their control (at the moment).

Does this mean I support the rebels? I think its a little more complicated than that. We can't always cast things in black and white, which many of you are. The reality is a mass movement has arisen in Syria after months of development and struggle. Now there are groups and individuals within the movement that are less savory than others (Islamic fundamentalists, conservatives, etc. come to mind), but these factors shouldn't discredit the rest in our eyes. Our response needs to be readily revised and adaptable in accordance with what's happening on the ground; furthermore, the situation requires a more nuanced approach that is severely lacking in most people's responses.

I don't support Assad - anyone on this site who does has a severe misunderstanding of Marxism, including what it is and means in relation to past and present events. I don't support those elements within the anti-Assad movement that would readily subvert and manipulate it to serve theirs and other's interests. But I do support what's grown to be a mass growing movement that has unified and emboldened an entire class, resulting in organic, embryonic formations of working people utilizing their strength via committees and armed resistance.

Consider this passage from a July edition of Frontline, a leftist newspaper in Syria that highlights how certain groups and councils within the FSA operate (this particular military council, based in Deir el-Zour, gave the following orders to FSA fighters):


--It is forbidden to set up checkpoints and inconvenience people.

-- It is forbidden to kill regime informants, but if you catch one, you can beat them and then deliver them to their family.

-- It is forbidden to interfere with or attack Alawites in Deir Ezzour.

-- Members of the FSA must pay for anything received from the people either by paying cash, or working: harvest the fields, build [or help rebuild], etc.

Or this Code of Conduct, published by the Local Coordinating Committees, which includes a pledge by FSA fighters not to "exercise reprisals on the basis of ethnicity, sect, religion or any other basis." Other pledges and regulations include:


Article IV
I pledge not to practice any form of torture, rape, mutilation, or degradation. I will preserve prisoners’ rights and will not exercise any of the above practices in order to obtain confessions.

...

Article VI
I will not engage in any practice that leads to the physical torture or murder of prisoners or informants, and I will not participate in any public execution.

Article VII
I pledge not to engage in any form of theft or looting on the pretext that I am helping to finance the armed struggle. I pledge not to take any person hostage for ransom.

Yes, there are a lot of factors and elements that we should and must highlight in regards to the Syrian revolution, namely the small but sizable presence of fundamentalists and proxy sectarian groups representing the interests of their foreign backers. While the movement's future remains to be seen, what's clear is that the working-class has been deeply and irrefutably involved in its development.

If or when Assad is overthrown, it is the task of these bodies to continue their struggle, to deepen and expand it beyond its present lines. They have the means for doing so, it's just a question of the balance of forces in the country and the global community, and what those forces are willing to do to in the near to longterm.

[goalkeeper]

But armed rebel factions will settle for nothing less than his head, and there lies the problem.


And that's a problem because....?

[Luís Henrique]

Oh, and thanks for 'neg-repping' me. ;)

This creep seems to be doing that to people who disagree with his views. Neggreped (cautious here, lest I get banned for racism) for being "anti-Islam".

Luís Henrique

[goalkeeper]

Apparently they could easily create a western controlled state friendly to Israel.

What? No.

That would be incredibly hard, considering that the country is split between pro-Baathists who hate Israel and Islamists who hate Israel. Literally no one is Syria supports Israel, so creating a "pro-Israel" state seems like a near impossibility unless it is outright occupied by Western powers which doesn't seem likely.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

This creep seems to be doing that to people who disagree with his views. Neggreped (cautious here, lest I get banned for racism) for being "anti-Islam".

Luís Henrique

Haha he neg repped me on the first page because im from the US and disagreed with his article.

[Paul Pott]

And I'm so sick of hearing of these supposed councils I'm going to strangle the next person who invokes them to justify some kind of support for the rebels.

That has been the biggest propaganda success of the rebels as far as the western left is concerned.

Here's a thing you don't realize - there is no FSA. The "Free Syrian Army" is a blanket term adopted by most rebel militias. There is no high command, no councils coordinating them, nothing of the sort. For all practical purposes the FSA is made up of hundreds of local warlords.

We know about these supposed councils throughout Syria from those same rebel "activists" who are the western media's favorite source.

In reality, as many have shown, Islamic courts rule rebel held areas. This is because Al-Qaeda in Syria and their smaller islamist allies are the main fighting force against the government. Those are the rebels that western imperialism has little control over. Otherwise they are arming "FSA" militias.

At this point, if you support the overthrow of Assad by the rebels, you support al-Qaeda.

[ckaihatsu]

Wow what a clusterfuck. Everybody make sure to support the inevitable hundreds of thousands of refugees from this crisis.


---





So that means everyone should please stop using the corporate-media-approved term of "civil war" since this is most obviously a *proxy* war.





Isn't it both? I'm with BG -- "clusterfuck" that peeps should keep there hands off of is best.

In a brief but lively chat with a brother on May Day, we were in agreement on Syria, and his words were "Do no harm." Seems the right call.


So you're saying 'non-involvement'.

That may be okay for writing a Wikipedia entry, but meanwhile the 'proxy-ness' continues, with Syria as the de facto battleground.

I tend to compare these conditions to those just prior to World War I, when several expanding imperialist powers "encountered" each other over competing claims to colonial territories in Africa, Asia, and South America.

Today we have neo-colonialism, through NATO, as witnessed recently with Libya and Mali.

Sure, no one here *has* to be political, but this *is* a political discussion board, after all....

[Sasha]

And I'm so sick of hearing of these supposed councils I'm going to strangle the next person who invokes them to justify some kind of support for the rebels.

That has been the biggest propaganda success of the rebels as far as the western left is concerned.

Here's a thing you don't realize - there is no FSA. The "Free Syrian Army" is a blanket term adopted by most rebel militias. There is no high command, no councils coordinating them, nothing of the sort. For all practical purposes the FSA is made up of hundreds of local warlords.

We know about these supposed councils throughout Syria from those same rebel "activists" who are the western media's favorite source.

In reality, as many have shown, Islamic courts rule rebel held areas. This is because Al-Qaeda in Syria and their smaller islamist allies are the main fighting force against the government. Those are the rebels that western imperialism has little control over. Otherwise they are arming "FSA" militias.

At this point, if you support the overthrow of Assad by the rebels, you support al-Qaeda.

you are either intentionally lying or talking from out of you arse, the LCC's are very real http://www.lccsyria.org/en/
(fuck, even the Christian pacifist NGO pax christi is raising funds here for them - https://www.adoptarevolution.nl/english/)
al-qaeda is not the main rebel force in syria, al-qaida has next to no presence at all (about 500 fighters), the group you are refering to is called al-nusra which is claimed to be alligned with al-qaeda. but they are not the main rebel force either, yes they are among the best trained and funded but they are estimated to have 5000 fighters, with the various other jihadist groups lumped in 7.000 at best. the FSA is estimated to have 140.000, quite a fucking difference i would think.

oh and islamic courts? you might want to read my post about the current syrian constitution of you beloved Assad's regime that i posted above, you know the bit that is the start of article 3, which, again, follows article 1 (!) which proclaims Syria an ethnic-supremacist state:


Article 3

The religion of the President of the Republic is Islam; Islamic jurisprudence shall be a major source of legislation; [...]



in other words, the law is already islamist and for al your talk about Assad being a shining beacon of secularism non-muslims, be it atheist or even the many Christians, druze and ocasional jew could even in theory never be elected president, how secular indeed.
so syria is not secular, its racist, its patriarchal, its extreme anti-worker and its capitalist, please explain what there is to support for a change

for all this "In reality, as many have shown" etc etc there has been a god awful lack of facts, figures, statistics, consistent eye-witness reports or anything else of substance coming from your "omzg! Al-Qaeda!" lot.
just fucking cop to it that you are an dogmatic tankie who will cheer any bourgeois strongman to the next mass slaughter of the workers as long as he nominaly utters a few void anti-western slogans once in a while.
really, if you didnt have Stalin already to cheer on you lot would have rooted for Hitler without a second thought..

[Sasha]

and free-palestine is deleting all his comments again, sheesh dude, post or dont post, dont remove all your posts after a few hours, it makes following threads even more difficult than its already is.
if you are to cowardly to express your reactionary shite in public just stop posting altogether and just stick to the PM harassment campaigns and neg-rep name-calling.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I know it's been happening for a long time, but leftists invoking the specter of al-qaeda to justify supporting state violence is still really funny to me.

[l'Enfermé]

sure, but please tell that to the people here (falsely) painting any and all opposition as evil islamists itching to establish a theocratic caliphate while singing the praise of the current regime as a beacon of progressive secularism that should be preserved and propped up at all costs.
the fact is that the the regime is not only defacto a racist capitalist shithole, ethnic-supremacy and other stuff people would never excuse in "western" nations is a fundamental principle in the constitution atm.
you kind of lose the right to go off about evil zionists if you yourself are propping up a regime that has this in her constitution;

http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?docid=5100f02a2

yeah, all those kurds and other ethnic and religious minorities have some much to lose with the gamble of ditching Assad, because islamists and zionists might come and take their current ethnic and religious equality away.. oh wait...

and dont start me on womens rights either:
and to think that all the really nasty shit about swearing allegiance to the Baath party and making it a crime to oppose baathism and such was removed only in 2012, i wonder what triggered that concession???
Oh don't be so fucking disingenuous psycho. If you are gonna make shit up like that, at least don't insult our intelligence. Do you think we are too stupid to actually open a new tab and read the constitution(adopted by democratic referendum, in 2012)?

Ethno-supremacism? For fuck's sake. Read Article 33:

Article 33

1. Freedom shall be a sacred right and the state shall guarantee the personal freedom of citizens and preserve their dignity and security;

2. Citizenship shall be a fundamental principle which involves rights and duties enjoyed by every citizen and exercised according to law;

3. Citizens shall be equal in rights and duties without discrimination among them on grounds of sex, origin, language, religion or creed;

4. The state shall guarantee the principle of equal opportunities among citizens.

Or Article 19:

Article 19

Society in the Syrian Arab Republic shall be based on the basis of solidarity, symbiosis and respect for the principles of social justice, freedom, equality and maintenance of human dignity of every individual.

Or Article 9:

Article 9

As a national heritage that promotes national unity in the framework of territorial integrity of the Syrian Arab Republic, the Constitution shall guarantee the protection of cultural diversity of the Syrian society with all its components and the multiplicity of its tributaries.


Or let's quote the entirerity of Article 3, which you conveneintly abridged:

The religion of the President of the Republic is Islam; Islamic jurisprudence shall be a major source of legislation; The State shall respect all religions, and ensure the freedom to perform all the rituals that do not prejudice public order; The personal status of religious communities shall be protected and respected.



Women's rights? Yes, actually, gender equality is enshrined in the constitution. For example, Article 23:

Article 23

The state shall provide women with all opportunities enabling them to effectively and fully contribute to the political, economic, social and cultural life, and the state shall work on removing the restrictions that prevent their development and participation in building society.

Article 9 actually outlaws political activity aimed at gender discrimination(and racial discrimination):

4. Carrying out any political activity or forming any political parties or groupings on the basis of religious, sectarian, tribal, regional, class-based, professional, or on discrimination based on gender, origin, race or color may not be undertaken;

If you really think that every revlefter is even more stupid than the last, why do you even bother logging in?

[l'Enfermé]

I know it's been happening for a long time, but leftists invoking the specter of al-qaeda to justify supporting state violence is still really funny to me.
It's only funny if you live in your own fantasy world every poster on revleft is supposed to look at things from the perspective of an Amerinan.

[l'Enfermé]

Erm, nope. "which is claimed to be alligned with al-qaeda"? Pretty misleading there. Al-Nusra front quite explicitly considers itself an Al-Qaida affiliate. I recall their leader publicly "renewing"(his words) his "pledge of allegiance" to Al-Qaida's leader(this is a Salafist ritual called Al Bayaa, meaning that Al-Nusra promises to carry out every order Zawahiri makes as long as the order is in line with Sharia law). The Al-Nusra Front, by the way, is estimated to have around 10,000 fighters as of late 2012, probably more these days, not 5,000, and this doesn't even include all the numerous armed groups that operate under their aegis, like Jund Al-Sham, Fath Al-Islam, etc. Not really surprising, considering that the two biggest Salafist armed groups(the SIF - which, last year, when it was formed, announced that is has 30,000 armed men under its command - and the Jubhat Al-Nusra) are one of the very few "opposition" groups that aren't basically glorified mercenaries or criminal enterprises of roaming warlords. The Salafists are the only principled and properly ideologically motivated "opposition" force, the only one that at least somewhat capable of resisting corruption. That 70-80% of the people fighting against the Syrian Government are fighting under Salafist flags is both logical and inevitable.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

It's only funny if you live in your own fantasy world every poster on revleft is supposed to look at things from the perspective of an Amerinan.

Well then, feel free to educate me on the threat posed by the super scary and super powerful al-qaeda network from your non-American perspective.

[Turinbaar]

(adopted by democratic referendum, in 2012)?

Do you really think that Syria could even conduct a referendum that really aspired to be democratic in 2012, even if it wanted to? As far as promises of ethnic equality, were they there and enforced in the constitution before, and if not are they there now as a damage control response to recent protests against a history of denial and repression? They seem more like idle noise making in a Baathist attempt to sweep a dirty history under the rug after the kurds have taken territory and enforced their own demand for rights themselves.

[Sasha]

Well then, feel free to educate me on the threat posed by the super scary and super powerful al-qaeda network from your non-American perspective.


one would indeed think that 'l enferme among us has an rather unique intimate knowledge of how a popular national-democratic revolt to a brutal corrupt regime that not only gets ruthlessly butchered by the state but neglectfully ignored by supposedly progressive forces worldwide end up being dominated by islamists.
sorry to bring in your ethnicity but i honestly wonder how you, seeing what happened to chenya can support can come to the conclusions you have about syria. If there ever where two situations comparable...

[Sasha]

Oh don't be so fucking disingenuous psycho. If you are gonna make shit up like that, at least don't insult our intelligence. Do you think we are too stupid to actually open a new tab and read the constitution(adopted by democratic referendum, in 2012)?

Ethno-supremacism? For fuck's sake. Read Article 33:


Or Article 19:


Or Article 9:



Or let's quote the entirerity of Article 3, which you conveneintly abridged:


Women's rights? Yes, actually, gender equality is enshrined in the constitution. For example, Article 23:


Article 9 actually outlaws political activity aimed at gender discrimination(and racial discrimination):


If you really think that every revlefter is even more stupid than the last, why do you even bother logging in?


ever read the israeli constitution? :rolleyes:
thanx for proving my point.

[l'Enfermé]

Do you really think that Syria could even conduct a referendum that really aspired to be democratic in 2012, even if it wanted to?
I meant "democratic" in the bourgeois sense. Perhaps I should have used Salafist vocabulary instead, psycho would understand better.



As far as promises of ethnic equality, were they there and enforced in the constitution before, and if not are they there now as a damage control response to recent protests against a history of denial and repression? They seem more like idle noise making in a Baathist attempt to sweep a dirty history under the rug after the kurds have taken territory and enforced their own demand for rights themselves.

Ethnic and religious equality and all that jazz are in the old constitution too, the 1973 one. It's available online as well.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

one would indeed think that 'l enferme among us has an rather unique intimate knowledge of how a popular national-democratic revolt to a brutal corrupt regime that not only gets ruthlessly butchered by the state but neglectfully ignored by supposedly progressive forces worldwide end up being dominated by islamists.
sorry to bring in your ethnicity but i honestly wonder how you, seeing what happened to chenya can support can come to the conclusions you have about syria. If there ever where two situations comparable...

I'm not sure what you mean, I'm not Chechen I'm Somali. I'm not dismissing jihadis in general, I just think it's pathetic for supposedly progressive people to drag out the ridiculous phantom of al-qeada to bludgeon people into supporting a dictator. I can't roll my eyes hard enough when I see it.

[Akshay!]

ever read the israeli constitution? :rolleyes:
thanx for proving my point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_discrimination_in_Israel#Land_ownership
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_discrimination_in_Israel#Law_of_return_cont roversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_discrimination_in_Israel#Proposed_oath_of_a llegiance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Marriage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Education_system

And there are various other examples, but I think the point is clear.

[l'Enfermé]

ever read the israeli constitution? :rolleyes:
thanx for proving my point.
In Syria they have Shia-only settlements, racist marriage laws, separate roads for Shias, etc, etc, yeah?


one would indeed think that 'l enferme among us has an rather unique intimate knowledge of how a popular national-democratic revolt to a brutal corrupt regime that not only gets ruthlessly butchered by the state but neglectfully ignored by supposedly progressive forces worldwide end up being dominated by islamists.
sorry to bring in your ethnicity but i honestly wonder how you, seeing what happened to chenya can support can come to the conclusions you have about syria. If there ever where two situations comparable...
I think there are at least a few differences between the current war in Syria and the Chechen national-liberation struggle. For one, the Chechen national-liberation struggle wasn't a proxy war started by the GCC, Turkey and NATO.

And anyway, I don't really fancy the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria that much either. It was a stupid idea and it was executed even more stupidly.

[Tim Cornelis]

The government declared Syria an "all Arab" state and denied to an extent the existence of a separate Kurdish minority. Hundreds of thousands of Kurds were denied statehood because of their ethnicity, and the Kurdish community is economically less advanced than the Arab majority -- I read somewhere many lived in sod, turf, or mud houses, something like that. Save to say that Syria is pretty racist.


In Syria they have Shia-only settlements, racist marriage laws, separate roads for Shias, etc, etc, yeah?


I think there are at least a few differences between the current war in Syria and the Chechen national-liberation struggle. For one, the Chechen national-liberation struggle wasn't a proxy war started by the GCC, Turkey and NATO.

And anyway, I don't really fancy the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria that much either. It was a stupid idea and it was executed even more stupidly.

The GCC, Turkey, and NATO started the war? You sure it wasn't a response by sections of the population and army in response to the Syrian's regime slaughtering of demonstrators? I don't believe any party you named has the power to manipulate the population into a full scale war.

[l'Enfermé]

The GCC, Turkey, and NATO started the war? You sure it wasn't a response by sections of the population and army in response to the Syrian's regime slaughtering of demonstrators? I don't believe any party you named has the power to manipulate the population into a full scale war.
Haven't really seen any conclusive evidence of this, however.

[Tim Cornelis]

Haven't really seen any conclusive evidence of this, however.

How do you mean "conclusive evidence"? Syrians protest, Syrian government massacres them, soldiers defect. This is all well known and reported. Are you seriously implying governments have the means and power to manipulate a population to start a war? Are you implying that people have no reason to rise up against oppression unless manipulated?

[Geiseric]

Oh don't be so fucking disingenuous psycho. If you are gonna make shit up like that, at least don't insult our intelligence. Do you think we are too stupid to actually open a new tab and read the constitution(adopted by democratic referendum, in 2012)?

Ethno-supremacism? For fuck's sake. Read Article 33:


Or Article 19:


Or Article 9:



Or let's quote the entirerity of Article 3, which you conveneintly abridged:


Women's rights? Yes, actually, gender equality is enshrined in the constitution. For example, Article 23:


Article 9 actually outlaws political activity aimed at gender discrimination(and racial discrimination):


If you really think that every revlefter is even more stupid than the last, why do you even bother logging in?

The U.S. constitution says every single one of those things, but it means fuck all doesn't it?

[Geiseric]

Haven't really seen any conclusive evidence of this, however.

What about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9y9Ovjtv0qU

[melvin]

so why did the zionists get involve"Popular revolution" does not indicate one way or the other whether or not the revolution would help zionist geopolitical interests. and even if it does not, that still doesn't put it out of the question that Israel could get involved and try to use the conflict for its own ends.

[Le Socialiste]

I think there are at least a few differences between the current war in Syria and the Chechen national-liberation struggle. For one, the Chechen national-liberation struggle wasn't a proxy war started by the GCC, Turkey and NATO.

You can't seriously believe this whole thing was started by foreign interests. Come on, comrade - I've seen better from you. ;)

On a somewhat related note, can those who either support Assad or oppose the rebels actually link us to some evidence that backs up your claims? It'd be appreciated.

[hatzel]

the perspective of an Amerinan.

I'll just let everybody know that I read and reread this and was sure it said 'Armenian.' Which confused me, because I didn't think they really had much of a perspective in all this. Or, they do, but people aren't exactly talking about it...maybe this is just the encouragement we need to start, though! Syria's Armenian population, what's going on with them? Generally trying to stay neutral, I think, quite a lot have fled, pro-government forces certainly tried to lure them onto their side by painting it as an opportunity to stick it to the Turks. Not sure quite how successful that was. Anybody got anything else to add to this? Armenia itself is quite cosy with Iran - seems a lot of this has to do with the Azerbaijan issue - but is that enough for them to side with Assad? I guess it won't be particularly relevant anyway because it's not like Armenia is expected to be a major player in this or anything else, really. Why am I still even typing? Hmm...

[Paul Pott]

you are either intentionally lying or talking from out of you arse, the LCC's are very real http://www.lccsyria.org/en/

Wow, so a website proves that:

1. These councils actually exist, and exist on a large scale, and have a real role in Syria.

2. They exert control over FSA militias and are the civilian wing of the rebel's fight.

Why should we believe that? Because activists set up a website?

Better yet, why would it even matter? Do councils like these pass for soviets in your mind?




(fuck, even the Christian pacifist NGO pax christi is raising funds here for them - https://www.adoptarevolution.nl/english/

The best part of this is you didn't even read your own source:


Adopt a Revolution wants to contribute and aims at supporting the political work of those activists who can still prevent the emergence of a civil war.
Contribute to supporting the committees to give the peaceful uprising a chance!

Outdated. But that's the opposite stance you are taking: support for armed conflict in Syria.

Obviously it was an opposition project way back then to set up councils like those you claim exist, but that doesn't say anything about them now.


al-qaeda is not the main rebel force in syria, al-qaida has next to no presence at all (about 500 fighters), the group you are refering to is called al-nusra which is claimed to be alligned with al-qaeda. but they are not the main rebel force either, yes they are among the best trained and funded but they are estimated to have 5000 fighters, with the various other jihadist groups lumped in 7.000 at best. the FSA is estimated to have 140.000, quite a fucking difference i would think.

Note I said main fighting force, not main body of militiamen on paper. It's a fact they are associated with Al-Qaeda. Because they are the best armed and trained, they and their allies are responsible for the majority of recent rebel gains. Not only that, it is islamists who hold the economic reigns of the rebellion. http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2013/04/27/syrian-rebel-groups-are-now-fronted-mainly-islamic-radicals-obama-weighs-options/j28zM01ZUpFXgT2X5qPviN/story.html


oh and islamic courts? you might want to read my post about the current syrian constitution of you beloved Assad's regime that i posted above, you know the bit that is the start of article 3, which, again, follows article 1 (!) which proclaims Syria an ethnic-supremacist state:

So I support Assad? You're the one who has bet on a dog in this race, not me. I'm with the LCC in 2011.


just fucking cop to it that you are an dogmatic tankie who will cheer any bourgeois strongman to the next mass slaughter of the workers as long as he nominaly utters a few void anti-western slogans once in a while.
really, if you didnt have Stalin already to cheer on you lot would have rooted for Hitler without a second thought..


Thanks for showing everyone how much of a pathetic shrimp you are, getting angry when people explode your crude generalizations about white hat rebels and the fantasy that much of this forum still shares about them simply being a continuation of the people's struggle started in 2011.

It says much more about you than about me that you are so quick to label me as an Assad supporter because I oppose the rebels.

As far as me being a "tankie" maybe you could actually, you know, see what the antirevisionist ML position on Syria is:



The plenary of the ICMLPO, held for the first time in Africa, reaffirms its support for the right of the Syrian people to live under a democratic regime: a regime that guarantees freedom, equality, social justice and dignity, as well as assures the unity and total independence of the country, including the recovery of the Golan Heights occupied by Zionism since 1967.
The ICMLPO:
1. Denounces the dangerous development of events in Syria. The popular movement of protest has been transformed into a destructive civil war. The bloodthirsty repression is striking the people, and since the beginning, the Assad regime has rejected any democratic reform that would satisfy the aspirations of the Syrian people. This situation is the consequence of the foreign reactionary, imperialist and Zionist intervention, through Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which masked by the so-called “Free Syrian Army” and under the pretext of “saving the Syria people”
2. We reaffirm that this war has nothing to do with the interests of the Syrian people and their aspirations. On the contrary, it serves the reactionary forces of the country, the region and internationally. Syria is at the moment the place of confrontation between, on the one side the U.S., France and Israel and Arab and Turkish reaction that are trying to subject Syria to Western rule and make it break its ties with Iran and Hezbollah. On the other side, Russia and China are supporting the regime to preserve their strategic interests in Syria and the region, after having lost their influence in Libya.
3. We reject all intervention by NATO in Syria under any pretext, given the dangers that this represents for the Syrian people, the peoples of the region and world peace in general. The Conference calls on the Turkish people to oppose Turkey’s intervention in Syria. It sends a call to the workers and peoples of the Western countries, in the first place of the United States, Great Britain and France, whose leaders are threatening military intervention in Syria, to pressure their governments to stop them from carrying out their criminal strategy that caused disasters in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, etc. in the past
4. It is up to the Syrian people, in all cases, to determine their own future. The ICMLPO calls on the Syrian patriotic and democratic forces to unite to save their country from the claws of the Assad regime and the armed gangs and to prevent the foreign powers from mortgaging their future and making use of a part of their minorities to undermine their unity. The ICMLPO calls on those forces to strive to build a new, democratic, secular, independent and united Syria in which the different religions and nationalities live together in freedom and equality.
5. Calls on the patriotic, democratic and progressive forces of the region to urgently mobilize and to undertake the necessary measures of solidarity to support the patriotic and democratic forces of Syria, forces that must act to end the slaughters perpetrated against the Syrian people, to stop the destruction of the country and prevent the foreign intervention, to facilitate dialogue among its inhabitants to achieve their aspirations and break with the tyranny and foreign domination.

I only support the left opposition. Which is against the war and on bad terms with the rebels.

[dez]

I don't support any sides but I sure think its weird that the FSA is composed mainly of sunnis while the regime's army has sunnis and every other minority.

If they (fsa) are so big on tolerance and equality why aren't minorities in syria supporting them?

[Sasha]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_discrimination_in_Israel#Land_ownership
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_discrimination_in_Israel#Law_of_return_cont roversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_discrimination_in_Israel#Proposed_oath_of_a llegiance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Marriage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Israel#Education_system

And there are various other examples, but I think the point is clear.

Sigh, it was a grim joke, israel doesn't have a constitution, its one of the main reasons shit like you posted can happen there..
It was the point I was trying to make, that no matter the later nuances article one of the Syrian constitution is ethno-supremacist and excludes the sizeable Kurdish minority, their treatment reflects that, that in 2012 Assad tried to shove some crumbs their way to buy their loyalty in the civilwar is only insult after injury.
While that evil Israel, which is evil, don't mistake me, at least didn't encode their racism into the constitution. I despise (what is now called) Zionism (an insult to what I believe Zionisim to be) but the measuring with two scales when its between "zionism" and Arab-supremacy is so painfully obvious on this forum...

[Sasha]

I don't support any sides but I sure think its weird that the FSA is composed mainly of sunnis while the regime's army has sunnis and every other minority.

If they (fsa) are so big on tolerance and equality why aren't minorities in syria supporting them?

The make up of the opposition is actually pretty much reflective of the ethnic and religious ballance in Syria, its the vast unrepresentation of the Sunni majority and overreprestation of a alawi bourgeoisy in the regime that's indictative of the systematic opression and exclusion.
And also here the distinctly diffrent attitude by some on this board between about how justified the struggle of a majority proletarian populace against preferential minority regime in Syria and Bahrain makes it glaringly obvious how the game of "my strong man is good and their strongman is bad" is played.
At least, I assume its that game because I don't assume actual Shia vs Sunni racism seeped in..

[dez]

The make up of the opposition is actually pretty much reflective of the ethnic and religious ballance in Syria, its the vast unrepresentation of the Sunni majority and overreprestation of a alawi bourgeoisy in the regime that's indictative of the systematic opression and exclusion.


What about the other minorities (other than alawite) that are siding with the regime?
What do they fear about the FSA?

[Comrade Nasser]

The Christians and other minorities in Syria feel as if they will be abused by the FSA if Assad leaves power. They feel as if Assad is the only barrier between them and religious persecution.

[Akshay!]

Robert Fisk on Syria - http://www.democracynow.org/2013/5/7/robert_fisk_on_syrias_civil_war

[Sasha]

What about the other minorities (other than alawite) that are siding with the regime?
What do they fear about the FSA?

If you, like any communist should, look at class lines instead of ethnic religious lines the answer would be obvious, almost all proletarians (who are in majority Sunni but also prole alawi and christans and Druze) in general support the overthrow of Assad, the bourgeois and petit-bourgeois (who are in majority made up by alawi, have a overrepesitation of other minorities, but also contains a sizeable sunni minority) support the regime or at least want to return to a stable (capitalist friendly) status quo.
Now ofcourse no capitalist will come out to say they support Assad to safeguard their material intrests so they play the minority/secular card and apperently some are buying it...

[dez]

If you, like any communist should, look at class lines instead of ethnic religious lines the answer would be obvious, almost all proletarians (who are in majority Sunni but also prole alawi and christans and Druze) in general support the overthrow of Assad, the bourgeois and petit-bourgeois (who are in majority made up by alawi, have a overrepesitation of other minorities, but also contains a sizeable sunni minority) support the regime or at least want to return to a stable (capitalist friendly) status quo.
Now ofcourse no capitalist will come out to say they support Assad to safeguard their material intrests so they play the minority/secular card and apperently some are buying it...


Wrong. The conflict is divided on ethnic lines IMO. Christians, Druze, Jews, Some sunni, Shia etc in one side, Sunnis on another. Proletarians on one side fighting proletarians on the other side, as wars often go. Where do you think the "proletarian army" of the FSA gets their guns and ammunition? From bourgeois and extremely reactionary nations such as Qatar, Saudi Arabia and turkey. They don't envisage to create any sort of worker's state and have a strong number of religious extremists at their midst. There's also the calls for vendettas after everything is over that seriously concern me over syria's future if the FSA wins.

I supported the overthrow of assad when I saw the popular movement attempting to oust it, but the conflict has changed considerably over the past year.

[Luís Henrique]

At this point, if you support the overthrow of Assad by the rebels, you support al-Qaeda.

I heard that about the overthrow of Gadaffi by the Libyan rebels, and it turned out to be hogwash. So why should I believe it now about Syria, coming from the same sources that were so clearly mistaken about Libya?

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

4. Carrying out any political activity or forming any political parties or groupings on the basis of religious, sectarian, tribal, regional, class-based, professional, or on discrimination based on gender, origin, race or color may not be undertaken

I think this is improperly bolded. I would do it like this:


4. Carrying out any political activity or forming any political parties or groupings on the basis of religious, sectarian, tribal, regional, class-based, professional, or on discrimination based on gender, origin, race or color may not be undertaken;

So, under the Syrian constitution you cannot have a Workers' Party, or a Proletarian Party, etc.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

I think there are at least a few differences between the current war in Syria and the Chechen national-liberation struggle. For one, the Chechen national-liberation struggle wasn't a proxy war started by the GCC, Turkey and NATO.

No, it wasn't. But have you ever thought about why it wasn't? Perhaps because it is too close to Moscow for the US to safely mess with its internal affairs?

Really, upheavals of the size and intensity of the Syrian civil war cannot be ignited on foreign orders. At very least, they have to reflect the internal contradictions of the Syrian society. That's what we historical materialists should understand first place!

Luís Henrique

[l'Enfermé]

What about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9y9Ovjtv0qU
I watched your video and I just see unarmed civilians on one side and armed men shooting into the air on the other side. What is that supposed to prove? And how do you even know the soldiers shooting into the air are Assad's? The Opposition claims a hundred million army defectors every week, so you can't even prove that those air-shooting soldiers are the government's.

[l'Enfermé]

How do you mean "conclusive evidence"? Syrians protest, Syrian government massacres them, soldiers defect. This is all well known and reported. Are you seriously implying governments have the means and power to manipulate a population to start a war? Are you implying that people have no reason to rise up against oppression unless manipulated?
Reported by GCC, Turkish and NATO media, yes, sure. Haven't actually seen any evidence of protestors being massacred by the Syrian government, however.

And no, I'm not implying the foreign governments have the means to manipulate the Syrian population to start a war. Because this hasn't happened. Most of the Syrian population is pro-government.

[Paul Pott]

Looks like psycho's new gig is claiming that the loyalists are more diverse because they're all bourgeois, and the rebels are the sunni proletarian masses fighting the bourgeois allawi.

I don't even need to explain why that's stupid beyond stupid. This war is a sectarian war because the rebels made it that way. Period. The original democratic uprising represented all Syrians, not just Sunnis or Allawis, but in the civil war Shiites and Christians have generally sided with the government out of fear of the sectarian rebels, and the Sunnis are split - and not along class lines.

To say this is a class conflict is one of the most delusional things anyone has ever claimed about Syria. What the Syrian people want more than anything is peace, and that should be the demand of any left worth its salt.

[Le Socialiste]

The LCCs in Syria have issued this statement (http://syriafreedomforever.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/the-local-coordination-committees-in-syria-lcc-regarding-the-israeli-raids/) regarding the Israeli bombings:


The Local Coordination Committees in Syria (LCC): Regarding The Israeli Raids
Posted on May 7, 2013


”We won’t lose our compass. The enemy of our enemy will not become our friend.”

Regarding The Israeli Raids

The Local Coordination Committees in Syria (LCC) deplores the Israeli raids on Syrian territory and condemns ongoing violations of the Syrian people’s national sovereignty.

The LCC confirms that the Syrian regime’s reckless behavior has turned Syria into a state of chaos, and the regime alone bears full responsibility for the outcome of a country that has become a playground in which regional and international powers settle their scores at the expense of the Syrian people. It is important to remember that this regime has never served as a resistance force; rather, the regime has protected Israel over the past decades. The game of “resistance” has only been used to impose repression, tyranny, and bullying of the domestic population under the pretext of external danger.

The Israeli raids targeted military installations and ammunition depots, which had been used to kill unarmed civilians – the sons and daughters of Syria. Nonetheless, the raids can only be seen in the context of serving Israeli interests, which align in many ways with those of the Syrian regime. The regime is trying to force the country into a sectarian war and to become a divided state – a condition that has long been a strategic goal for Israel.

The Local Coordination Committees in Syria
May 6, 2013

[Paul Pott]

LCC's (http://angryarab.net/2013/05/07/desprately-looking-for-secular-moderates-in-the-syrian-revolution/) = FSA (http://syriafreedomforever.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/942176_528127123910942_1233463176_n.jpg)?


Le Socialiste took that from the website that psycho posted, which is a rebel activist site claiming to represent Syrian councils.

[Paul Pott]

I heard that about the overthrow of Gadaffi by the Libyan rebels, and it turned out to be hogwash.


Has it? Hardcore religious elements have obstructed pretty much most women's rights progress in Libya, and continue to hold and torture prisoners who were Gaddafi loyalists. Among other things. They never seized power. Part of the reason is that many moved on to other wars ripe for their hijacking soon after Gaddafi died, namely Mali and...Syria.

They are still there and have a lot of fighters, like we saw in September, but now they are waiting until the situation lets them make their move. They continue to bully secular Libyans on a regular basis.

[Geiseric]

Has it? Hardcore religious elements have obstructed pretty much most women's rights progress in Libya, and continue to hold and torture prisoners who were Gaddafi loyalists. Among other things. They never seized power. Part of the reason is that many moved on to other wars ripe for their hijacking soon after Gaddafi died, namely Mali and...Syria.

They are still there and have a lot of fighters, like we saw in September, but now they are waiting until the situation lets them make their move. They continue to bully secular Libyans on a regular basis.

Of course however Ghadaffi supported the usa in the Iraq war. So did Assad. Assad also crushed the intifada in lebanon! Keep talking about how bad the fsa are though.

[Le Socialiste]

Le Socialiste took that from the website that psycho posted, which is a rebel activist site claiming to represent Syrian councils.

Curious, the website says nothing (http://syriafreedomforever.wordpress.com/about/) about representing Syria's LCCs:


This blog is dedicated to the struggle of the Syrian people in their uprising to overthrow the Assad authoritarian regime and to build a Democratic, Secular, Socialist, Anti imperialist and Pro Resistance Syria!

But yeah, a Syrian activist who also happens to be a member of the Revolutionary Left Current must not know what they're talking about, right? It is just a "rebel activist site" after all...

I suppose this interview (http://darthnader.net/2012/10/17/interview-with-member-of-the-national-unity-brigades-of-the-fsa/) with a member of one of the National Unity Brigades is just full of shit, too. Granted, there's some confused beliefs and/or language expressed in that link (notions of 'patriotism' and a willingness to fight alongside anyone so long as they're against the regime, for example), but it's also indicative of the fact that not every rebel is, as some here like to repeatedly claim, a member of Al-Qaeda. I'd also like to highlight some of the names of those brigades currently fighting in Syria, too (taken from the aforementioned interview):


DN: What are some of the names of the brigades?

JD:

Abdel Rahman Al Shabandar Brigade (Syrian Arab nationalist who organized the Iron Hand society against French rule)

Martyrs of the Syrian Revolution brigade

Joul Jamal Brigade (named after a Syrian Christian who defended Egypt in the Suez crisis in a suicide attack with his small boat against a French warship)

Martyrs of Badama Brigade

Martyrs of the Wastani Mountains Brigade

Ahmad Maryoud Brigade (anti-colonial Syrian fighter against Ottomans first, then French later)

Youssef Al-Admeh Brigade (Syrian anti-colonial leader against French occupation)

Tamer Al-Awam Brigade (named after a Syrian filmmaker recently killed in Aleppo)

[Paul Pott]

Of course however Ghadaffi supported the usa in the Iraq war. So did Assad. Assad also crushed the intifada in lebanon! Keep talking about how bad the fsa are though.

Syria also supported the Gulf War against Iraq under daddy Assad. Both Libya and Syria cooperated with the US against its enemies, and Gaddafi was notorious for torturing captives sent to him by the CIA. But worst of all was both regime's relationship with the Palestinian struggle.

I'm quite aware of the history of the region. My goal is to put an end to romantic notions about the Syrian "revolution".

[Paul Pott]

Curious, the website says nothing (http://syriafreedomforever.wordpress.com/about/) about representing Syria's LCCs:



But yeah, a Syrian activist who also happens to be a member of the Revolutionary Left Current must not know what they're talking about, right? It is just a "rebel activist site" after all...

I suppose this interview (http://darthnader.net/2012/10/17/interview-with-member-of-the-national-unity-brigades-of-the-fsa/) with a member of one of the National Unity Brigades is just full of shit, too. Granted, there's some confused beliefs and/or language expressed in that link (notions of 'patriotism' and a willingness to fight alongside anyone so long as they're against the regime, for example), but it's also indicative of the fact that not every rebel is, as some here like to repeatedly claim, a member of Al-Qaeda. I'd also like to highlight some of the names of those brigades currently fighting in Syria, too (taken from the aforementioned interview):


The site psycho posted has the same announcement.

I don't think anyone is claiming that all the Syrian rebels are al-Qaeda. But why do they fight alongside al-Qaeda? Why do they take western and Gulf weapons and directives? Why hasn't there been so much as a peep about this from brigades named after historical anti-colonialist figures?

[Le Socialiste]

I'm quite aware of the history of the region. My goal is to put an end to romantic notions about the Syrian "revolution."

Who here has been espousing 'romantic notions' about the situation in Syria? In any event, your efforts have been entirely one-sided seeing as you largely target those of us who have explicitly stated our critical support for various elements of the uprising. That's what it comes down to, really. My support for certain sections of the movement is a result of careful examination and assessment. I'm not retaining any romanticized ideas of what the Syrian conflict is and looks like. I realize things can change rapidly (as they have over the past two years). But I also wish to look at the rebellion within the wider context of neoliberalism and reform inside Syria and the broader region, balanced with the responsive shifts and movements of class forces. Marx and Engels, in their early assessment of the bourgeoisie, defined the emergent class as a comparatively 'revolutionary' force - insofar as it represented the destruction of prior systems, marking a definite progression into the next epoch of class struggle.

While it is certainly not wholly appropriate to blindly compare the transitional structural makeups of mid-to-late 19th century society with the ensuing conflicts within Syria, a nugget of consistency should - and must - remain with us in our analysis: that the establishment of a civil, democratic Syrian state will, on the whole, present a definite progression (albeit riddled with more, not fewer, internal contradictions).

I think the example of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt makes for a fine, though not perfect parallel; that is, the propulsion of the MB into state and legislative power presented a new phase in the struggle. Whereas the election of Shafik might have served as a further hindrance on the movement's ongoing development, Mubarak's presidency has served to both preserve the initial gains of the initial revolt and expose the contradictions of the 'democratic process' and the Brotherhood's commitment to neoliberalism. The movement has thus, by the very conditions of its continued existence, been forced to evolve - and the past several months have seen rising strike waves, an emboldening of the working-class, and a deepening level of struggle - in tandem with growing resentment towards the Brotherhood and a likening of the organization with elements of the old regime.

Now, the conflict in Syria will not follow the same patterns as the Egyptian revolution in its entirety. It will however serve a similar purpose if successful: to broaden the next general phase in Syrian class and political development and deepen new and preexisting contradictions within the country. Of course, I continue to support the more revolutionary elements of the rebellion involved in the efforts to oust Assad, but I recognize that these remain largely marginal in relation to the whole of the movement.


I don't think anyone is claiming that all the Syrian rebels are al-Qaeda.

Ahem (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2615182&postcount=59):


At this point, if you support the overthrow of Assad by the rebels, you support al-Qaeda.


But why do they fight alongside al-Qaeda? Why do they take western and Gulf weapons and directives? Why hasn't there been so much as a peep about this from brigades named after historical anti-colonialist figures?

Contrary to popular belief, the U.S. and its allies have continued to limit the flow of arms into Syria. Many media reports often include criticisms from the rebels of the U.S. and others for stopping all but light weaponry from entering the country, including anti-aircraft systems that could help against the government's air force. Many have rejected attempts to influence or sway rebels' loyalty to one or another power, such as Moaz al-Khatib (who recently resigned from his position as head of the National Coalition of Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces). He recently voiced his concerns about how outside powers are trying to intervene in the conflict, saying:


[Groups and individuals] who are willing to obey [outside powers] will be supported. Those who disobey will be offered nothing but hunger and siege. We will not beg for help from anyone. If there is a decision to execute us as Syrians, then let us die as we want. The gate of freedom has opened and will not be closed, not only for Syrians, but for all peoples...Our message to everyone is that Syrians' decisions will be taken by Syrians, and Syrians only.

As for rebels seeking arms from outside the country, this is hardly the failing y'all who oppose the rebellion make it out to be. They were all but forced to after the Assad regime decided to drown the movement in its own blood. The ruthlessness of the government made nonviolent protest impossible. The most pressing issue for the rebels is the means by which these weapons are acquired and whether they'll be able to retain their independence as a result.

As for the National Unity Brigades, here is what was said about outside support:


DN: Who arms and supports you?

JD: Patriotic individuals who don’t want recognition. We reject any support that is politicized or that is not patriotic, no matter how big. And everyone who supports us shares our dream of a civil state.

DN: So, do you reject outside support then?

JD: If it is politicized or political, then yes, we reject it. We also reject it if it is party-based or sectarian.

DN: But the problem is that there is lots of outside support for the Islamists. Won’t they remain stronger than you militarily if your position is as such?

JD: Yes, but the root of the problem is the various brigades aren’t unified. Support and donations should go to the military council, and then the military council should distribute the aid accordingly. But, unfortunately, there are some brigades who get donations exclusively to them. We reject this and seek unification of military efforts in a military council that represents the free army and revolutionaries in the form of a “Revolutionary Military Council.” This is actually taking place in Aleppo with the formation of The Revolutionary Military Council of Aleppo.