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Bolshevika
7th January 2004, 03:09
Here is a guy who seems to be fairly anti"Stalinist", even anti-planned economy, yet he wrote this book on the Ukrainian famine http://www.artukraine.com/famineart/fraud_fam.htm

Extremely interesting how he does not get much press time, atleast not to the same degree is the notorious exagerrater Robert Conquest who is hailed by the Ukrainian Nationals as a "hero".

Even the American Historical Review agrees almost all the claims made against Stalin come from the Trotskyists, Nazis, or the sensationalist 1930's press.

Make your case for the authenticity of the famine Rightwingers, Trotskyists, fascists, anti-communists. Let's discuss it in one thread.

D'Anconia
7th January 2004, 03:26
I think this Soviet memorandum is very telling.

Addendum to the minutes of Politburo [meeting] No. 93.

RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL OF PEOPLE'S COMMISSARS OF THE UKRAINIAN
SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLIC AND OF THE CENTRAL COMMITTEE OF THE
COMMUNIST PARTY (BOLSHEVIK) OF UKRAINE ON BLACKLISTING VILLAGES
THAT MALICIOUSLY SABOTAGE THE COLLECTION OF GRAIN.

In view of the shameful collapse of grain collection in the
more remote regions of Ukraine, the Council of People's
Commissars and the Central Committee call upon the oblast
executive committees and the oblast [party] committees as well as
the raion executive committees and the raion [party] committees:
to break up the sabotage of grain collection, which has been
organized by kulak and counterrevolutionary elements; to
liquidate the resistance of some of the rural communists, who in
fact have become the leaders of the sabotage; to eliminate the
passivity and complacency toward the saboteurs, incompatible with
being a party member; and to ensure, with maximum speed, full and
absolute compliance with the plan for grain collection.

The Council of People's Commissars and the Central Committee
resolve:

To place the following villages on the black list for overt
disruption of the grain collection plan and for malicious
sabotage, organized by kulak and counterrevolutionary elements:

1. village of Verbka in Pavlograd raion, Dnepropetrovsk
oblast.

...

5. village of Sviatotroitskoe in Troitsk raion, Odessa oblast.

6. village of Peski in Bashtan raion, Odessa oblast.

The following measures should be undertaken with respect to
these villages :

1. Immediate cessation of delivery of goods, complete
suspension of cooperative and state trade in the villages, and
removal of all available goods from cooperative and state stores.

2. Full prohibition of collective farm trade for both
collective farms and collective farmers, and for private farmers.

3. Cessation of any sort of credit and demand for early
repayment of credit and other financial obligations.

4. Investigation and purge of all sorts of foreign and
hostile elements from cooperative and state institutions, to be
carried out by organs of the Workers and Peasants Inspectorate.

5. Investigation and purge of collective farms in these
villages, with removal of counterrevolutionary elements and
organizers of grain collection disruption.
The Council of People's Commissars and the Central Committee
call upon all collective and private farmers who are honest and
dedicated to Soviet rule to organize all their efforts for a
merciless struggle against kulaks and their accomplices in order
to: defeat in their villages the kulak sabotage of grain
collection; fulfill honestly and conscientiously their grain
collection obligations to the Soviet authorities; and strengthen
collective farms.

CHAIRMAN OF THE COUNCIL OF PEOPLE'S
COMMISSARS OF THE UKRAINIAN SOVIET SOCIALIST
REPUBLIC - V. CHUBAR'.

SECRETARY OF THE CENTRAL COMMITTEE OF THE
COMMUNIST PARTY (BOLSHEVIK) OF UKRAINE - S.
KOSIOR.

6 December 1932.

http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/k2grain.html


I think the Soviet government made the case for the famine pretty well here. What did they think would be the result of cutting off those villages?

D'Anconia
7th January 2004, 03:57
The toll

How many millions perished?

Harry Lang, editor of the left-wing Jewish daily Forward, published in New York, visited Ukraine in 1933 and was told by a high-ranking state official that six million people had perished from the famine.
Other estimates range from 6.5 to 8.5 million. We will never know the exact number.

We do know that according to the 1926 Soviet population census there were 31.2 million Ukrainians in the U.S.S.R. According to the 1939 Soviet census this number had dropped by 3.1 million to 28.1 million. (There was no emigration from the Soviet Ukraine in this period.) Over a 13-year period, according to Soviet statistics, the number of Ukrainians had diminished by 11 per cent. The population of the U.S.S.R., on the other hand, increased by 16 per cent and the number of Russians by 28 per cent

http://ukar.org/famine06.htm

AmericanZionist2004
7th January 2004, 04:47
Terrible and indefensible. I wasn't even aware of this.

Looter
7th January 2004, 10:42
If only the Yoke of Russian Soviet Communist Imperialism were removed, the Ukraine could return to being the Basketcase of Europe!

TC
7th January 2004, 15:24
Those "politburo minutes" aren't even sited correctly. Transcripts of the meetings of the politburo in the Archives arent denoted by markings like "No. 93.", they start with either "CT" followed by a number, then a slash then anouther number, or "P" in the same format, to distinguish between protocols of the Politburo and its secretariat. If it where a legitimate document of what it says it was it would be labled something like "CT93/45" not "No. 93."

Look at what the memo is actually saying anyways. The problem they are trying to address is counter-revolutionaries sabotage of the grain production, in other words, whomever is writing the memo is trying to prevent a famine, and suggests that they kick anyone out of the Communist Party who isn't trying to prevent a famine..."Purging" (which doesn't mean exicuting, it just means expelling from the Party) the Communist Party members in villages who have done nothing to prevent the sabotage is not a bad thing; as the memo claims failing to stop the kulaks from disrupting grain is inconsistent with their responsibilities as party members.

Bolshevika
7th January 2004, 20:01
Oh please D'Anconia, citing statistics about population increases and decreases is a deceitful attempt to prove your "point".

For example, 20 million Americans and Europeans died of the Spanish flu between 1918-1920, who is to blame for this? Why didn't Stalin make any "man-made famines" to combat opposition after Penicillin developed? What killed most Ukrainians was various pamdemics, and since they were defenseless from the shortage of food, many of them died of this like the book says.

And the politburo archive you posted even says "to break up the sabotage of grain collection, which has been
organized by kulak and counterrevolutionary elements", they are saying the Kulaks are orchestrating these sabotages.

Saint-Just
7th January 2004, 20:24
Kulaks hoarded grain to trade and profit from, this was what the USSR was trying to prevent.

People such as Conquest say that Stalin engineered a famine because he hated Ukranians. This does not concur with the information here, unless this would have been a memo written to cover their actions. In addition, Conquest says that Stalin left no record of his plan to starve the Ukraine.

In the memo only six villages are listed for these measures to be carried out, this would not cause a famine.

This is another page on the subject: http://www.plp.org/cd_sup/ukfam2.html

D'Anconia
7th January 2004, 21:42
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 04:24 PM
Those "politburo minutes" aren't even sited correctly. Transcripts of the meetings of the politburo in the Archives arent denoted by markings like "No. 93.", they start with either "CT" followed by a number, then a slash then anouther number, or "P" in the same format, to distinguish between protocols of the Politburo and its secretariat. If it where a legitimate document of what it says it was it would be labled something like "CT93/45" not "No. 93."

Look at what the memo is actually saying anyways. The problem they are trying to address is counter-revolutionaries sabotage of the grain production, in other words, whomever is writing the memo is trying to prevent a famine, and suggests that they kick anyone out of the Communist Party who isn't trying to prevent a famine..."Purging" (which doesn't mean exicuting, it just means expelling from the Party) the Communist Party members in villages who have done nothing to prevent the sabotage is not a bad thing; as the memo claims failing to stop the kulaks from disrupting grain is inconsistent with their responsibilities as party members.
Please take a look past the first two paragraphs next time.


The following measures should be undertaken with respect to
these villages :

1. Immediate cessation of delivery of goods, complete
suspension of cooperative and state trade in the villages, and
removal of all available goods from cooperative and state stores.

2. Full prohibition of collective farm trade for both
collective farms and collective farmers, and for private farmers.


What do you think this means Tragic Clown?

If the villages are cut off from all delivery of goods and means of trade, what would happen?

That's right, they would starve to death. These so-called "counter-revolutionaries" were farmers who had been unwillingly forced itno collectivization or those very few "kulaks" who were farmers who were fortunate to own just barely enough more land than the others who were forced into collectivization (this tiny bit of land made them public enemies to the Soviet gov't.).

The collectivized farmers were forced to give up more and more of their grain until they were no longer able to put food in their own mouths. When it came right down to it, they would rather destroy the grain in an act of defiance than give it to the gov't.

The kulaks were unfortunate enough to be able to produce enough grain to not be immediately forced into collectivization, as they could still produce enough for themselves and still contribute some to the gov't. The Soviets of course could not abide even this small measure of free trade. So of course, the kulaks had to be targeted also.

The next time you visit a link try reading everything. There is a facsimile copy of the memo in Russian if you would care to translate it.

D'Anconia
7th January 2004, 21:47
Quote: Bolshevika

Oh please D'Anconia, citing statistics about population increases and decreases is a deceitful attempt to prove your "point".

For example, 20 million Americans and Europeans died of the Spanish flu between 1918-1920, who is to blame for this? Why didn't Stalin make any "man-made famines" to combat opposition after Penicillin developed? What killed most Ukrainians was various pamdemics, and since they were defenseless from the shortage of food, many of them died of this like the book says.

If you would take time to read the entire page on the link I posted, I am sure you would see that the point was only one in the context of a lengthy article. Next time at least do yourself the courtesy of reading in context before spouting.

JustSoul
7th January 2004, 22:08
You need something trasnlated? I can do it if you want=) ( Note if you are just trying to make Bolshevika read something then just ignore this part =) ).

Ukrainian femine did happen. Find me 1 ( ONE ) competent historican (and not some pro communist or pro facist moron that thinks he can write history books ) that will admit there was no femine. Until then its just a flat out lie and propaganda.

I like you arguing habits btw. You post link to a book. To a book someone spent months or years writing and you want us to dissaprove it in one post? If i had 2 monts i could have wrote a total lie that would be hard to dissaprove.

If you want us to debate paste the most important facts here and then it could be debated. Until then this topic is meaningless.

Bolshevika
7th January 2004, 22:48
Ukrainian femine did happen. Find me 1 ( ONE ) competent historican (and not some pro communist or pro facist moron that thinks he can write history books ) that will admit there was no femine. Until then its just a flat out lie and propaganda.

I just did. Find me ione historian who doesn't take his "facts" regarding the ukrainian famine straight from the Nazis, Find me one competent historian who isn't some pro-capitalist/pro-fascist moron that thinks he knows anything about history, it is your job as the accuser to provide evidence of such an act. (Robert Conquest=former British intelligence, William Hearst=Nazi sympathizing sensationalist anti-communist billionaire, Alexander Solzhenitsyn=Ukrainian nationalist who praisd Franco)


If you would take time to read the entire page on the link I posted, I am sure you would see that the point was only one in the context of a lengthy article. Next time at least do yourself the courtesy of reading in context before spouting.

My point was that they did not starve the Ukrainians on purpose because they were anti-communist, the speech/article is one on the sabotages going on by members of the Ukrainian communist party working with the kulaks. The archive refutes your claim in the first few lines.

D'Anconia
7th January 2004, 23:41
My point was that they did not starve the Ukrainians on purpose because they were anti-communist, the speech/article is one on the sabotages going on by members of the Ukrainian communist party working with the kulaks. The archive refutes your claim in the first few lines.

No, the memo is an internal document of the Politburo. I do not understand how you can say that the Soviet gov't can be trying to prove both that there was a famine and that there was not.

You are technically correct that the government did not "starve the Ukrainians on purpose because they were anti-communist. " However, you are actually incorrect because, as mentioned in the latter portions of the memo (which you have apparently still not read), the Soviets cut off the villages from all sorts of goods or trade, effectively starving them to death. They did not physically prevent them from eating, but they did prevent them form having anything to eat.

Also you are asking to prove the impossible. It is not possible to prove the negative that someone is not a capitalist or a fascist.

Xprewatik RED
8th January 2004, 01:03
Stalin was a killer. The kulaks did it? The kulaks ran to West Ukraine, which did not have a starvation; if they could. Stalin removed and blocked food from villages. He sent people like my grandma who were children to Siberia so they could watch their family die. Don't believe me there are thousands of people around my grand mas age who could tell you of the purges! Stalin was no peaceful man, look at his attempted mimking of Hitler's invasion of Poland on Finland. Look at his occupation of Eastern Europe. Ukrainians are just one people who suffered under Steel man; he called himself Steel man. His Steel fist was used to crush the will of the Ukrainian people. Believe your lies Bolshevika, your American Stalinist websites don't make real people with real expiriences disappear.

Bolshevika
8th January 2004, 01:26
Prewatik, I'm sorry, but saying your grandma told you something does not mean it is backed up by historical fact. Please give solid historical fact that Stalin sent children to Siberia to watch their parents die from the most unbiased source you can find. People tend to exagerrate hardships.

What point does Stalin have in forcing children go to Siberia and see there parents die? I know children from families with counter revolutionary/fascist backrounds were sent to special schools, however, I do not know of any children that were forced to go to labour camps. This is a baseless accusation.

We have a close comrade on this board from Finland who is very pro-Stalin, maybe he can clear up what happened with Stalin and Finland. Stalin nor the Red Army occupied Eastern Europe, all the Eastern Europeans had sovereign governments that even disgareed with Stalin, for example Yugoslavia did not want to join the Warsaw and they were not forced to.

JustSoul
8th January 2004, 04:41
I have a said a respected/known historician. That guy is noone thank you.

You can deny whatever you want and as much as you want , but you won't change the fact. And fact is , femine did happen and communists are to blame. But i have noticed that people here can't accept facts.... You can live in a dream world as much as you want , but don't be surprised when you don't see many "supporters" around.

Vinny Rafarino
8th January 2004, 15:32
For every "historian" that claims that the famine (if indeed it actually qualifies as a famine) was caused intentionally, or even unintentionally for that matter, by the Bolsheviks there is another waiting in line to show evidence that refutes that material.

Who are we going to trust to provide accurate and information regarding that incident? Rich Kulags that were stripped of their massive farms? Historians associated with the Nazi party? Capitalist western historians? Exiled former slave-driving aristocrats? Remember, these individuals made it their duty to incite counter-revolution and subversion among the Soviet people.

Tell you what amigo, you believe your lies and we will believe ours. Can we go bowling now?


Mr. X Red,

You have been babbling about your grandmother for several months now. I'm sorry but a fantastic picture drawn to support a belief would be more appropriately labeled as an idol rather than a substancial show of evidence.

The good thing about idols is that they can always be taken down when you don't need them yes? Unfortunately they still have a tendency to rear their ugly heads once in a while when the people get out of line right? Do you consider revolution to be out of line brutha? The Kulaks sure did.

Soviet power supreme
8th January 2004, 15:41
Stalin was no peaceful man, look at his attempted mimking of Hitler's invasion of Poland on Finland.

Could you say that again?I didnt understand that.I even looked the word mimking from english dictionary and I didnt find it.

But If you are referring the winter war and continous war I can explain.There were connection between Finland and Germany before the war.Recently a book is released that tells about the amount of jews who were transported from Finland to Germany before the war.

Obviously Soviets didnt know this but the reson why they attacked to Finland was to occupy the country so that Germany couldnt bring their forces via Finland.He didnt plan to conquer the Finland.I cant now find a map of Finland on the net but If you find a Finnish map from before the Winter war,you will see that the distance from Finnish border is very little to Leningrad.Soviets must have known the superiority of the Wehrmacht from the Spain civil war and after the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact from Poland.

Soviets discussed with the Finnish goverment about the occupation but the negotiations didnt succeed.They attacked in november 1939.The war went on till the march 1940.Soviets couldnt breach the Mannerheim's line in Karjala and Finns fight better in those conditions.It was a bloody cold winter.Temperature was like -40 degrees!(I dont know what that is in Fahrenreits).In spring 1940 the Soviets was breking through the line and it seemed that they could have conquer it but no.USSR and Finland made a peace in march.Hermann Göring had been told to the finnish goverment to make a peace at any to save the army, because Germany would attack in USSR soon and if Finland would join in attack, they would get their lands back with interests. Now Soviets were pleased since they got the Leningrad secured.In the peace negotiations Soviets were given the Karjala.

Soviets helped to form communistic goverments in Baltic countries.A communistic goverment was created in Finland in Terjoki.It was created by Finnish communists such as O.W. Kuusinen who was one of the leaders in Finnish class war in 1918 and now he was the prime minister in Terijoki's goverment.When soviets didnt occupy the country and Terijoki's goverment couldn't rally the workers to their side, it became useless.

During the peace time in 1940-1941 Finland gave right of passage to Germany.Germany supplied itäs northern army in Norway.When operation Barbarossa began, Soviet bombed Finland, because German tropps were in Finland.So this gave Finns a reason to attack to USSR with Germamy.German troops were advancing in North to Murmansk and Finnish troops were taking their lost counties back.They get their counties back and crossed the old border and advanced to USSR.They conqued cities such as Petroskoi.They got near to Leningrad but Soviets stopped them like 50 kilometres away.Finnish troops didnt cut the supply railroad to Leningrad, no matter how Nazis demanded it.Finnish high command was afraid that Us would start a war against them lif they cut it. the Brittish had declared war in december 1941, when the Finnish troops crossed the old borders and were advancing to the USSR.

In Fall 1944 the Soviets were were advancing to Berlin and they were breaking the Finnish lines also.They could have againg conquer the country but they made peace with the Finnish goverment.

So Soviets could have conquered Finland twice but they didn't.

Stalin had been many times in Finland.In fact he met Lenin first time in Tampere in 1905.He was also signing the Finland's independecy's declaration.

Bolshevika
8th January 2004, 20:59
Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 05:41 AM
I have a said a respected/known historician. That guy is noone thank you.

You can deny whatever you want and as much as you want , but you won't change the fact. And fact is , femine did happen and communists are to blame. But i have noticed that people here can't accept facts.... You can live in a dream world as much as you want , but don't be surprised when you don't see many "supporters" around.
Because you are ignorant of this author it makes him 'noone'. What a foolish and closed minded attitude.

JustSoul
8th January 2004, 21:41
Yes it makes him noone. I have searched for the authors name on the net. And it apperas he is not known as a good historician. I can write a book myself denying anything that happened in a history. In fact one russian world famous math professor did it. He completly rewrote history (for example he claims its like 1000s year A.C now instead of 2004). The book is well written and has no obvious contradictions. In fact it can explain many mistiries in classical view. But my point is. If you are smart and you have a lot of time , then you can write a book completly twisting all history facts and it will look real.

However it is even more fun when there are actually survivors and witnesses that have seen it with their own eyes. Hence even majority of russian communists do not deny this fact.

And wtf about all historicians being either nazi or capitalist. Yes they maybe were and you know why? Because there was only 3 powers in the world. Nazi,Democratic powers and Ussr and allies. So all historcians that were not owned by Ussr goverment do not deny this fact.

So anyways here are my exact questions , i bet you won't answer them either but i'll try.

1) What about thousand of witnesses and documentation and diaries left after them?
2) What about many very respected people that wrote articles, books etc supporting famine.
3) What about secret documents revealed to the public at 1990s. There is a 100% proof it happened.

Waiting.

Bolshevika
8th January 2004, 22:38
1) What about thousand of witnesses and documentation and diaries left after them?

I'm not denying that many people died during the 1930's in the Ukraine from malnutrition and disease, however I do not believe Soviet officials were responsible. I could write a diary right now about my experience with green men from the planet Balooga, does this make it true?



2) What about many very respected people that wrote articles, books etc supporting famine.

What do you consider a "respected" person? Former British intelligence agents? Cold war remnants? Ronald Reagan? Goebbals?


3) What about secret documents revealed to the public at 1990s. There is a 100% proof it happened.

Please show me this documentation that the Soviets officially made a decision to starve millions of innocent Ukrainians for no reason or because they were not communists (Kulaks and sabotagers do not count as innocents).

There was lack of food, as there is in many countries of the world, and what is your point? Please explain how this starvation was a conscious effort orchestrated on purpose by Soviet officials, and please tell me about how this was directed at peasants.

General A.A.Vlasov
9th January 2004, 05:14
D'Anconia...!!!...you're really intellegent! WE(I'm and KA) respect you!

Chairman Mao... :huh: ...seems to me, that you are a lawer or devil-stalin!!! :angry:

Loknar
9th January 2004, 06:28
One thing that is not in dispute is a famine did happen in the Ukraine. I know someone from the Ukraine from that era, she told me that people ate stones to fill their stomachs.


I personally don’t believe that the famine was intentional, but it was man made. However I read that those those 6 million were actually from the entire Soviet Union, not only the Ukraine.

Maybe if the soviets didnt conquer the Ukraine the people there would have been ok.

Comrade Ceausescu
9th January 2004, 08:28
For every "historian" that claims that the famine (if indeed it actually qualifies as a famine) was caused intentionally, or even unintentionally for that matter, by the Bolsheviks there is another waiting in line to show evidence that refutes that material.

Who are we going to trust to provide accurate and information regarding that incident? Rich Kulags that were stripped of their massive farms? Historians associated with the Nazi party? Capitalist western historians? Exiled former slave-driving aristocrats? Remember, these individuals made it their duty to incite counter-revolution and subversion among the Soviet people.

Tell you what amigo, you believe your lies and we will believe ours. Can we go bowling now?


Mr. X Red,

You have been babbling about your grandmother for several months now. I'm sorry but a fantastic picture drawn to support a belief would be more appropriately labeled as an idol rather than a substancial show of evidence.

The good thing about idols is that they can always be taken down when you don't need them yes? Unfortunately they still have a tendency to rear their ugly heads once in a while when the people get out of line right? Do you consider revolution to be out of line brutha? The Kulaks sure did.

*shoots off gun....Shoots off again*welcome back comrade!!!!!! :D :D :D

Comrade Ceausescu
9th January 2004, 08:38
In Search of a SOVIET HOLOCAUST

A 55-Year-Old Famine Feeds the Right

By Jeff Coplon

Originally published in the Village Voice (New York City), January 12, 1988.

Something therefore always remains and sticks from the most impudent lies.... The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed."

-- Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

The girl is dying. She looks about five years old, but we know she may be older, diminished by hunger. She leans wearily against a gate. Her long hair falls lank about bare shoulders. Her head rests against her arm. He neck is bent, like a stalk in parched earth. Her eyes are the worse -- large and dark, glazed yet still wistful. The child is dying, starving, and we feel guilty for our witness...

The Ukrainian émigrés who made Harvest of Despair knew a gripping image when they saw one. The black-and-white still, played over an arching, minor-mode chorus, was chosen to close the Canadian documentary on the Ukrainian famine of 1932-33. The same photography was used to promote the film, to symbolize a long-dormant cause célčbre: a "man-made" famine, "deliberately engineered" by Stalin to crush Ukrainian nationalism and cow a stubborn peasantry into permanent collectivization. Seven million Ukrainians were killed, the narrator tells us, as "a nation the size of France [was] strangled by hunger."

The result, intoned William F. Buckley, whose Firing Line showed the film last November, was "perhaps the greatest holocaust of the century."

The term "holocaust" still burns the ears, even in our jaded time. As we watch the film and see corpses piled in fields, bloated bodies sprawled in streets, pale skeletons grasping for bits of bread, we wonder: How can such a terrible story have been suppressed so long?

Here is how: The story is a fraud.

The starving girl, it turns out, wasn't found in 1932 or 1933, nor in the Ukraine. Her pictures was taken from a Red Cross bulletin on the 1921-22 Volga famine, for which no one claims genocide. Rather than an emblem of persecution, the photograph advances the most cynical of swindles -- a hoax played out from the White House and Congress through the halls of Harvard to the New York State Department of Education. Pressing every pedal, pulling all the strings, is a Ukrainian nationalist lobby straining to cloak its own history of Nazi collaboration. By revising their past, these émigrés help support a more ambitious revisionism: a denial of Hitler's holocaust against the Jews.

There was indeed a famine in the Ukraine in the early 1930s. It appears likely that hundreds of thousands, possibly one or two million, Ukrainians died -- the minority from starvation, the majority from related diseases. By any scale, this is an enormous toll of human suffering. By general consensus, Stalin was partially responsible. By any stretch of an honest imagination, the tragedy still falls short of genocide.

In 1932, the Soviet Union was in crisis. The cities had suffered food shortages since 1928. Grain was desperately needed for export and foreign capital, both to fuel the first Five-Year Plan and to counter the growing war threat from Germany. In addition, the Communist Party's left wing, led by Stalin, had come to reject the New Economic Plan, which restored market capitalism to the countryside in the 1920s.

In this context, collectivization was more than a vehicle for a cheap and steady grain supply to the state. It was truly a "revolution from above," a drastic move towards socialism, and an epochal change in the mode of production. There were heavy casualties on both sides -- hundreds of thousands of kulaks (rich peasants) deported to the north, thousands of party activists assassinated. Production superseded politics, and many peasants were coerced rather than won to collective farms. Vast disruption of the 1932 harvest ensued (and not only in the Ukraine), and many areas were hard-pressed to meet the state's grain requisition quotas.

Again, Stalin and the Politburo played major roles. "But there is plenty of blame to go around," as Sovietologist John Arch Getty recently noted in The London Review of Books. "It must be shared by the tens of thousands of activists and officials who carried out the policy and by the peasants who chose to slaughter animals, burn fields, and boycott cultivation in protest."

Such a balanced analysis, however, has never satisfied Ukrainian nationalists in the United States and Canada, for whom the "terror-famine" is an article of faith and communal rallying point. For decades after the fact, their obsession was confined to émigré journals. Only of late has it achieved a sort of mainstream credibility -- in Harvest of Despair, shown on PBS and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and at numerous college campuses; in The Harvest of Sorrow, an Oxford University Press account by Robert Conquest; in a "human rights" curriculum, now available to every 10th-grade social studies teacher in New York State; and in the federally-funded Ukraine Famine Commission, now into its second year of "hearings."

After 50 years on the fringe, the Ukraine famine debate is finally front and center. While one-note faminologists may teach us little real history, they reveal how our sense of history is pulled by political fashion until it hardens into the taffy of conventional wisdom. And how you can fool most of the people most of the time -- especially when you tell them what they want to hear.

The Film

Harvest of Despair was the brainchild of Marco Carynnyk, a Ukrainian translator and poet who lives in Toronto. In 1983, Carynnyk found a sponsor in St. Vladimir's Institute, which formed a Ukrainian Famine Research Committee of well-to-do émigrés. The committee raised $200,000 for the documentary, including a major grant from the Ukrainian Canadian Committee (a spiritual descendant of the fascist Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists), and a loan from the similarly right-wing World Congress of Free Ukrainians.

As chief researcher for the film, Carynnyk had two major functions -- to locate and interview famine survivors, and to find archival photographs. Talking heads would not be enough to make a case for genocide. To gain its intended shock value, the film would have to show what the famine was like. "There can be no question," assessed the Winnipeg Free Press, "that without the films and photographs uncovered from the 1932-33 famine, the film would lose much of its authority."

"I gave them two sets of photographs," Carynnyk said. "I told them, `Here are the ones from the 1930s, and here are the ones from 1921-22.' But in the cutting of the film, they were all mixed up. I said this can't be done, that it will leave the film open to criticism... My complaints were ignored. They just didn't think it was important."

One problem, Carynnyk said, was that producer Slawko Nowitski faced an impossible five-month deadline to ready the film during the famine's 50th anniversary. (In fact, Harvest of Despair would not be completed until late 1984). But the researcher believes it was more than mere sloppiness at work. "The research committee was more interested in propagandistic purposes than historical scholarship," said Carynnyk, who has sued the Famine Research Committee for copyright violation. "They were quite prepared to cut corners to get their point across."

In October 1983, Carynnyk left the project -- "relieved of his duties," according to Nowitsky, "because he did not produce the required material." Three years and seven awards later, the lid blew last November at a meeting of the Toronto Board of Education, where terror-famine proponents were pressing to include the film in the city's high school curriculum. The show stopped cold when Doug Tottle, former editor of a Winnipeg labor magazine, stood up and declared that "90 per cent" of the film's archival photographs were plagiarized from the 1921-22 famine.

Tottle traced several of the most graphic photos, including that of the starving girl, to famine relief sources of the 1920s. (Some of these resurfaced in 1933 as anti-Soviet propaganda in Völkischer Beobachter, an official Nazi party organ). Other pictures were lifted from the 1936 edition of Human Life in Russia, by Ewald Ammende, an Austrian relief worker in the earlier Volga famine. Ammende attributes them to a "Dr. F. Dittloff," a German engineer who supposedly took the photos in the summer of 1933. The Dittloff pictures have their own bastard pedigrees --three from 1922 Geneva-based relief bulletins, others from Nazi publications. Still other Dittloffs were also claimed as original by Robert Green, a phony journalist and escaped convict who provided famine material to the profascist Hearst chain in 1935. Green, a convicted forger who used the alias "Thomas Walker," reported that he took the photos in the spring of 1934 -- almost a year after the Ukraine famine had ended, and in direct contradiction of Dittloff.

Although Green was exposed by The Nation and several New York dailies by 1935, right-wing émigrés have used his spurious photos for decades. "It's not that these pictures were suddenly discovered in 1983 and accidentally misdated" in the film, Tottle noted.

Tottle had done his homework. Carynnyk confirmed that "very few" photos in Harvest of Despair could be authenticated, and that none of the famine film footage was from 1932-33. But the Ukrainian Famine Research Committee decided to stonewall. At first they insisted that any photos from the 1920s were used only when the film discussed the Volga famine -- a blatant evasion, since that segment lasts a scant 28 seconds and uses only two still photos, neither especially potent. Committee chairman Wasyl Janischewskyj recently softened that stance: "We have researched further and made discoveries that some photos we thought were from 1932-33 were not ... We are now having further deep investigations of these pictures."

In the main, however, the filmmakers have sought to justify their fraud. "You have to have visual impact," said Orest Subtelny, the film's historic adviser. "You want to show what people dying from a famine look like. Starving children are starving children." A documentary, added producer Nowitski, must rely on "emotional truth" more than literal facts.

"These people have never attempted to refute my claims," said Tottle. (His book on the subject, Fraud, Famine, and Fascism, will be published this fall by Toronto's Progressive Books, an outlet for Soviet releases). "They have tried to lie and cover it up, but they have not tried to refute it."

Nor have the nationalists refuted Tottle's contention that several "witnesses" in the film were Nazi collaborators, including two German diplomats who served in the Third Reich and an Orthodox Church layman who blessedly rose to bishop while the Third Reich occupied the Ukraine in 1942.

"Just because they're collaborators," countered Nowitski, "does that mean we cannot believe anything they tell us? Just because they're Nazis is no reason to doubt the authenticity of what happened."

This slant pervades émigré research on the famine. Soviet sources are rejected out of hand, while Nazi sources (or known liars like Walker and Dittloff) are accepted unconditionally. In the Göbbels tradition, the nationalists' brief always serves their anti-Communism --no matter how many facts twist slowly in the process. Harvest of Despair follows unholy footsteps, and never breaks stride.

The Book

According to a 1978 article in The Guardian of London, Robert Conquest got his big break shortly after World War II, when he joined the Information Research Department of the British Foreign Office. Staffed heavily by émigrés, the IRD's mission was a covert "propaganda counter-offensive" against the Soviet Union. It was heady, hands-on work for a young writer, a chance to slant media coverage of Russia by adding political "spin" to Eastern bloc press releases and funneling them to top reporters. The journalists knew little about the IRD, beyond the names of their mysterious contacts. The public knew nothing at all, even as their opinions were being sculpted.

After Conquest left the IRD in 1956, the agency suggested that he package some of his handiwork into a book. That first compilation was distributed in the US by Fred Praeger, who had previously published several books at the request of the CIA.

The shy and courtly Conquest has come a long way since then, from gray propagandist to éminence grise. He is now a senior research fellow at the Hoover Institute at Stanford, as well as an associate of Harvard's Ukrainian Research Institute. But his heart and his pen never left the IRD. The Soviet Union would be Conquest's lifetime obsession. He churned out book after book on the horrors of communism: The Nation Killer, Where Marx Went Wrong, Kolyma: the Arctic Death Camps. His landmark work of 1968, The Great Terror, focused on Stalin's purges of the late 1930s. But by 1984, his work had turned surreal; What To Do When the Russians Come was the literary equivalent of that politico-teen-disaster flick, Red Dawn. Yet he remained a mainstream heavyweight, coasting on reputation, his excesses accepted as Free World zeal.

In 1981, the Ukrainian Research Institute approached Conquest with a major project: a book on the 1932-33 famine. The pot was sweetened by an $80,000 subside from the Ukrainian National Association, a New Jersey-based group with a venerable, hard-right tradition; the UNA's newspaper, Swoboda, was banned by Canada during World War II for its pro-German sympathies. (The grant was earmarked for Conquest's research expenses, including the assistance of James Mace, a junior fellow at the URI).

The nationalists knew they'd be getting their money's worth. At the time, faminology was virgin ground. There was little source material available, since the Soviet archives remain sealed. More to the point, most non-émigré historians viewed the 1932-33 famine as an outgrowth of collectivization, not a political phenomenon of itself, much less a stab at genocide. But Conquest was different. In his Terror book, he'd already concluded that more than three million Ukrainians were killed by the famine. Here, clearly, was the right man for the job, a man who once stated: "Truth can thus only percolate in the form of hearsay ... basically the best, though not infallible, source is rumor." And with no one on record to dispute the issue, Conquest's rumors could rule.

In The Harvest of Sorrow, Conquest outdoes himself. He weaves his terror-famine from unverifiable (and notoriously biased) émigré accounts. He leans on reportage from ex-Communist converts to the American Way. He cites both "Walker" and Ammende. Black Deeds of the Kremlin, a period piece published by Ukrainian émigrés in 1953, is footnoted no less than 145 times.

Conquest can be deftly selective when it suits his purpose. He borrows heavily from Lev Kopelev's The Education of a True Believer, but ignores Kopelev when the latter recalls Ukrainian villages that were relatively untouched by famine, or relief efforts by a Communist village council.

By confirming people's worst suspicions of Stalin's rule, The Harvest of Sorrow has won favorable reviews from The New York Times, The New Republic, and The New York Review of Books. But leading scholars on this era are less impressed. They challenge Conquest's contention that Ukrainian priests and intelligentsia -- two major counterrevolutionary camps -- were repressed more ruthlessly than anywhere else in the country. They point out that the 1932-33 famine was hardly confined to the Ukraine, that it reached deep into the Black Earth region of central Russia. They note that Stalin had far less control over collectivization than is widely assumed, and that radical district leaders made their own rules as they went along.

Most vehemently of all, these experts reject Conquest's hunt for a new holocaust. The famine was a terrible thing, they agree, but it decidedly was not genocide.

"There is no evidence it was intentionally directed against Ukrainians," said Alexander Dallin of Stanford, the father of modern Sovietology. "That would be totally out of keeping with what we know -- it makes no sense."

"This is crap, rubbish," said Moshe Lewin of the University of Pennsylvania, whose Russian Peasants and Soviet Power broke new ground in social history. "I am an anti- Stalinist, but I don't see how this [genocide] campaign adds to our knowledge. It's adding horrors, adding horrors, until it becomes a pathology."

"I absolutely reject it," said Lynne Viola of SUNY- Binghamton, the first US historian to examine Moscow's Central State Archive on collectivization. "Why in god's name would this paranoid government consciously produce a famine when they were terrified of war [with Germany]?"

These premier Sovietologists dismiss Conquest for what he is -- an ideologue whose serious work is long behind him. But Dallin stands as a liberal exception to the hard-liners of his generation, while Lewin and Viola remain Young Turks who happen to be doing the freshest work on this period. In Soviet studies, where rigor and objectivity count for less than the party line, where fierce anti-Communists still control the prestigious institutes and first-rank departments, a Conquest can survive and prosper while barely cracking a book.

"He's terrible at doing research," said veteran Sovietologist Roberta Manning of Boston College." He misuses sources, he twists everything."

Then there are those who love to twist, and shout --to use scholarly disinformation for their own, less dignified purposes. In the latest catalogue for the Noontide Press, a Liberty Lobby affiliate run by flamboyant fascist Willis Carto, The Harvest of Sorrow is listed cheek-by-jowl with such revisionist tomes as The Auschwitz Myth and Hitler At My Side. To hype the Conquest book and its terror-famine, the catalogue notes: "The act of genocide against the Ukrainian people has been suppressed [sic] until recently, perhaps because a real `Holocaust' might compete with a Holohoax."

For those unacquainted with Noontide jargon, the "Holohoax" refers to the Nazi slaughter of six million Jews.

The Curriculum

In 1982, the New York State Department of Education set out to blaze a new trail: a definitive curriculum on the Nazi holocaust. The department assembled a distinguished review committee, including such Holocaust experts as Terrence Des Pres and Raul Hilberg. It assigned the actual writing to three top-rated social studies teachers. The finished two- volume project, which went to classrooms in the fall of 1985, does credit to everyone involved. It is a balanced mix of archival documents, survivor memoirs, and scholarly essays.

But a funny thing happened on the way to the high schools: The Ukrainian nationalists stole the show. Their point man was Bohdan Vitvitsky, a New Jersey attorney and author who was invited to join the state's advisory council, which would steer the curriculum's development. Vitvitsky's first move was to gain inclusion of an excerpt of his book on Slavic victims of the nazis. His second victory was to eliminate all but passing mention of Ukrainian war criminals.

"I took the position they should be dealt with, "said Stephen Berk, a Union College history professor and advisory council member, "but Vitvitsky insisted there should be no dwelling on [Nazi] collaborators." (The Catholic lobby didn't fare so well: over its protests, the curriculum includes a critical assessment of Pope Pus XII's inaction.)

But Vitvitsky's major coup, helped along by a nationalist letter campaign, was to install material on the Ukraine famine of 1932-33. In the curriculum's second draft in 1984, the famine was treated as a 17-page precursor chapter to the second Holocaust volume -- a plan which met heated resistance from Jewish groups. By the time the material reached the schools last fall, however, it had swollen into a separate third volume, with 90 pages on the "forced famine," and another 52 on "human rights violations" in the Ukraine.

A key player in the transition was Assemblyman William Larkin (Conservative Republican, New Windsor), a retired Army colonel, assistant minority whip, and old friend of Gordon Ambach, then the state commissioner of education. Larkin had ample incentive to help; his district contains about 8000 ethnic Ukrainians. He arranged "four or five" meetings between the state education staff and 20 upstate Ukrainian nationalists in 1985. He also enlisted other Republican assemblymen to press for the famine book, and says he spoke personally to Ambach.

The commissioner "offered to do anything he could," Larkin said. "But if we didn't go up there in force, if we didn't push it, it wouldn't have happened."

By most accounts, the political pressure was intense -- enough to squeeze a department deemed relatively apolitical. The Ukrainians mounted "an enormous letter-writing campaign with the Board of Regents," said Robert Maurer, the executive deputy commissioner. "There were phone calls and visits. There's not often that much interest in curriculum matters; it was very unusual."

The famine boosters found an especially sympathetic ear in Regent Emlyn I. Griffith, then chairman of the committee that unanimously endorsed Volume Three in 1985 -- a vote which ensured its future use. "As a member of a minority people put down by a majority government, I empathized" with the Ukrainian nationalists, said Griffith, an ethnic Welshman. "There was s significant lobbying effort ... It was persuasive. It wasn't threatening, it was positive."

It's difficult to pinpoint exactly who made the fatal decision on Volume Three. Griffith said his committee acted on a strong staff recommendation. Ambach failed to return phone calls for this story. Maurer lodged responsibility with Deputy Commissioner Gerald Freeborne, who in turn pointed to Program Development Director Edward Lalor, who referred questions to a low-level official named George Gregory, the chairman of the Human Rights Series advisory committee.

Shrouded by this corporate haze, Vitvitsky ran in an open field. No one challenged his basic premise. The famine `certainly does represent another example of genocide," Gregory asserted. "It was a planned attempt by Stalin to eliminate the Ukrainian people."

("George is the consummate bureaucrat," said one educator involved with the series. "His experience is mainly in grade- school -curricula -- like `Appreciating Our Indian Heritage,' or `The importance of the Finger Lakes Region.' when I started up there, he really didn't know anything about the Holocaust.")

To write the famine material, Gregory hired Walter Litynsky, a Troy High School biology teacher and a local chairman of Americans for Human Rights in Ukraine. For the job of principal reviewer Litynsky recommended James Mace, the Conquest protégé who also directs the Ukraine Famine Commission under a $382,000 congressional appropriation. Mace and Litynsky proceeded to stack the review committee with Ukrainian academics, the omnipresent Vitvitsky, and four upstate nationalists. "No contrary [review] letters were either solicited or received," Berk acknowledged. "I'm sorry this came out, because it was distorted -- but I felt it was a fait accompli."

When asked about contrasting viewpoints from such scholars as Lewin and Viola, Gregory was unmoved. "Quite frankly, we have not heard of any of them," he said. "We tried to present a balanced point of view. We didn't ask for the soviet opinion, since the soviet view was that the famine never happened. [In fact, the Soviets now concede that a famine was "impossible to avoid," because of drought, mismanagement, and kulak sabotage.] We relied heavily on James Mace; he's the leading historian of that time period."

This paean would startle academe, where Mace's work is infrequently read and rarely found in footnotes, the baseline of a scholar's importance. He is widely regarded as a right-wing polemicist, an indifferent researcher who has made a checkered career out of faminology.

"I doubt he could have gotten a real academic job," Manning said. "Soviet studies is a very competitive field these days -- there's much weeding out after the Ph.D. If he hadn't hopped on this political cause, he would be doing research for a bank, or running an export-import business."

The Mace-Litynsky partnership yielded a predictable end product -- the undistilled nationalist line. The state curriculum on the Ukraine famine apes both Harvest of Despair and The Harvest of Sorrow. (The education department now supplies the embattled documentary, as an audiovisual supplement, to any interested teacher.) Like the film and the book, the curriculum features faked photos from Ammende, dubious atrocity tales (including 16 selections from Black Deeds of the Kremlin), and sections of the "Walker" Hearst series, all without caveat. Like Conquest and Nowitski, the famine volume red-baits anyone who challenged the genocide scenario, such as New York Times reporter Walter Duranty. It goes Conquest one better by referring to the region as Ukraine, with no article, in deference to a sovereignty that exists only in nationalist fables.

The curriculum is most obviously exposed in its estimate of the famine death toll: "..it is generally accepted that about 7 million Ukrainians or about 22% of the total Ukrainian population died of starvation in a government- planned and -controlled famine."

How did Litynsky arrive at this talismanic figure, cited over and over again in émigré literature? "I don't pretend to be an expert on this subject," the biology teacher said. "This is not my field. I had a list of people who went from 1.5 million to 10 million. In my reading I saw seven million used more than any other figure, and I decided that was realistic. It got to the point where it was so confusing that you had to decide." (Mace has opted for 7.9 million Ukrainian famine deaths in his own work, with an "irreducible minimum" of 5.5 million. Conquest fixes on seven million famine deaths, including six million Ukrainians, with no appendix to show how his numbers are derived.)

But the magic number, like the genocide theory it shoulders, simply can't pass scrutiny. Sergei Maksudov, a Soviet émigré scholar much cited by Mace and Conquest, has now concluded that the famine caused 3.5 million premature deaths in the Ukraine -- 700,000 from starvation, and the rest from diseases "stimulated" by malnutrition.

Even Maksudov's lower estimates are open to challenge. Writing in Slavic Review, demographers Barbara Anderson and Brian Silver maintain that limited census data make a precise famine death count impossible. Instead, they offer a probable range of 3.2 to 5.5 million "excess deaths" for the entire Soviet Union from 1926 to 1939 -- a period that covers collectivization, the civil war in the countryside, the purges of the late `30s, and major epidemics of typhus and malaria. According to these experts, and Maksudov as well, Mace and Conquest make the most primitive of errors: They overestimate fertility rates and underrate the impact of assimilation, through which many Ukrainians were "redesignated" as Russians in the 1939 census. As a result, the cold warriors confuse population deficits (which included unborn children) with excess deaths.

Which leaves us with a puzzle: Wouldn't one or two or 3.5 million famine-related deaths be enough to make an anti- Stalinist argument? Why seize a wildly inflated figure that can't possibly be supported? The answer tells much about the Ukrainian nationalist cause, and about those who abet it.

"they're always looking to come up with a number bigger than six million," observed Eli Rosenbaum, general counsel for the World Jewish Congress. "It makes the reader think: `My god it's worse than the Holocaust.'"

Hidden Agendas

Your husband's courage and dedication to liberty will serve as a continuing source of inspiration to all those striving for freedom and self-determination.

-- letter from President Reagan to the widow of Yaroslav Stetsko, ranking OUN terrorist, murderer, and Nazi collaborator, read by retired general John Singlaub at a conference of the World Anti-Communist League, September 7, 1986.

In the panel discussion that followed Harvest of Despair on PBS last fall, Conquest addressed the issue of Ukrainian war crimes. "It's not the case," he said blandly, "that the Ukrainian nationalist organizations collaborated with the Germans."

Once again, the aging faminologist had tripped on the public record. It is one thing to suggest, rightly, that Ukrainian nationalism had little popular support among the peasantry. (It was actually a narrow, urban, middle-class movement.) Millions of Ukrainians fought with the Red Army and partisans. Many others can be accused of nothing worse than indifference, and a smaller number risked their lives to save Jews from the Germans. But on the matter of the OUN, the principal nationalist group from the 1930s on, the record is quite clear: It was fascist from the start.

In its original statement of purpose in 1929, the OUN betrays a raw Nazi influence: "Do not hesitate to commit the greatest crime, if the good of the Cause demands it ... Aspire to expand the strength, riches, and size of the Ukrainian State even by means of enslaving foreigners." This sentiment was echoed in a 1941 letter to the German Secret Service from the OUN's dominant Bandera wing: "Long live greater independent Ukraine without Jews, Poles, and Germans. Poles behind the [river] San, Germans to Berlin, Jews to the gallows."

As the authoritative John Armstrong, a staunch anti- Communist and pro-Ukrainian, has written: "The theory and teachings of the Nationalists were very close to Fascism, and in some respects, such as the insistence on `racial purity,' even went beyond the original Fascist doctrines."

But the OUN storm troopers, like any terrorist group, prized action over theory. Their wartime brutalities have been amply documented (Voice, February 11, 1986, "To Catch a Nazi,"). They recruited for the Waffen SS, pulled the triggers at Babi Yar and Sobibor, ran the gas chamber at Treblinka. During their brief interludes of Nazi-sponsored "independence" (in the Carpatho-Ukraine in 1939 and in Galicia in 1941), pogroms were the order of the day, in the spirit of their revered Simon Petlura. They strove to outdo the Nazis at every turn.

And when the Third Reich fell, the nationalists fled -- to Munich, to Toronto, and (with the covert aid of the US State Department, which viewed them as potential anti-Soviet guerrillas) to New York and Chicago and Cleveland.

This is not ancient history. The Ukrainian émigré groups still contain more than a few former OUN members, and many of their sons and daughters. The nationalists still heroize their wartime past. On occasion their old passions surface as well -- as in Why Is One Holocaust Worth More Than Others?, recently published by "Veterans of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army: "In 1933, the majority of the European and American press controlled by the Jews were silent about the famine."

From this perspective, the "conspiracy" lives on: "In (February) 1986 the Jewish newspaper Village Voice ... published one-and-one-half pages of accusations against a high-standing member of the Ukrainian nationalist movement, Mykola Lebed."

And finally, most transparently: "Tens of millions of people have been killed since the Zionist Bolshevik Jews, backed by the Zionist-oriented Jewish international bankers, took over Russia."

Not surprisingly, Ukrainian émigrés are among the harshest and most powerful critics of Nazi-hunting. They have sought to kill both the Justice Department's Office of Special Investigations and the Canadian Deschenes Commission -- and with good reason. Sol Littman, director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Toronto, recently presented the commission with the names of 475 suspected Nazi collaborator. He reports that Ukrainians were "very heavily represented" on the list.

It may not be sheer coincidence that faminology took wing just after the OSI was commissioned in 1979. For here was a way to rehabilitate fascism -- to prove that Ukrainian collaborators were helpless victims, caught between the rock of Hitler and Stalin's hard place. To wit, this bit of psycho-journalism from the March 24 Washington Post, in a story on accused war criminal John "Ivan the Terrible" Demjanjuk: "The pivotal event in Demjanjuk's childhood was the great famine of the early 1930s, conceived by Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin as a way of destroying the independent Ukrainian peasantry ... Several members of [Demjanjuk's] family died in the catastrophe."

Coupled with the old nationalist canard of "Judeo- Bolshevism," faminology could help justify anti-Semitism, collaboration, even genocide. An eye for an eye; a Nazi holocaust in return for a "Jewish famine."

Just as the Nazis used the OUN for their own ends, so has Reagan exploited the famine, from his purple-prosed commemoration of "this callous act" to his backing of the Mace commission. Faced with failing fascist allies around the world, from Nicaragua to South Africa, the US war lobby needs to boost anti-Communism as never before. Public enthusiasm to fight for the contras will not come easy. But if people could be convinced that Communism is worse than fascism; that Stalin was an insane monster, even worse than Hitler; that the seven million died in more unspeakable agony than the six million ... Well, we just might be set up for the next Gulf of Tonkin. One cannot appease an Evil Empire, after all.

As Conquest noted on PBS, after the starving girl's image finally faded from the screen: "This was a true picture we saw ... It instructs us about the world today."

It turns out that the picture is far from true -- that the purveyors of a famine genocide are stealing a piece of history and slicing it to order. It's a brash bit of larceny for Conquest and company, even within the prevailing vogue of anti-Stalinism. But if they say it loud enough and long enough, people just might listen. Lie bold enough and large enough, and -- as the man once said -- it just might stick.

JustSoul
9th January 2004, 08:40
I'm not denying that many people died during the 1930's in the Ukraine from malnutrition and disease, however I do not believe Soviet officials were responsible. I could write a diary right now about my experience with green men from the planet Balooga, does this make it true?


If another thousand upon thousands of totally unrelated humans wrote it , then it would be an argument to consider? And besides the only way to study history is thru witnesses and official documents.

What do you consider a "respected" person? Former British intelligence agents? Cold war remnants? Ronald Reagan? Goebbals?


For example Babel ( a Russian writer). For example many historicians ( including russian) living at that time. For example many other non-so famous writers that had relatives in those areas.

There was lack of food, as there is in many countries of the world, and what is your point? Please explain how this starvation was a conscious effort orchestrated on purpose by Soviet officials, and please tell me about how this was directed at peasants.


The lack of food was man made. Crops did grow bad in these years but there was enough food to live , until majority of it was taken by "prodrazverstka".

What documents? Iam not sure if they can be found online , but there was a big article here in Russia when they just were made public.

First of all it's

1) Oficcial estimations of how many people died from famine.
2) Documents about "prodrazverstka". Directives that have allowed communist brigades to take almost any number of food from farmers.
3) Reports from leaders of those brigades , with numbers of food taken , number of villages visited etc.