Your political evolution? [Archive]

21st April 2013, 10:24

When I became politically active in early 2003 I was a loyal Dutch SP follower.

The SP is a left-wing parliamentarian formation that started out as a Maoist grouplet in the 1960's but by 1991 formally renounced Marxism-Leninism and afterwards shifted rightwards towards coalitionism. Dutch politics consists of a complex parliamentary formation, given that our electoral system is fully proportionally representative where parliament has 150 seats and you only need the votes of 1 seat (0.67% of the tally) to get in. After campaigning for years, the SP got in at the 1994 elections with two seats and initially stood on a platform of principled opposition.

Besides this the party traditionally had a strong activist core in the membership that stands on the streets, wages agitation, held public meetings, organises in neighbourhoods against all kinds of social injustice.

These two factors - principled opposition and an active party - are what attracted me initially to the SP and for a time, from 2003 to 2006 I was pretty active for the party, holding a seat in the local branch leadership, active for ROOD (the youthwing of the party) and was regularly seen at national party events and decisionmaking places.

But at around 2005 I started asking questions, quite possibly due to the party's continuing shift to the right and, not wanting to leave the party just yet, I started looking explicitly for a Marxist current inside the party on the web. This is how I quite quickly stumbled across the Dutch CWI section. I joined after visiting an initial meeting in late 2005.

From that point on I was getting into more and more conflict with the party. Just half a year later, at the summercamp of ROOD, I was taken apart by the chairperson of ROOD (now MP Renske Leijten (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renske_Leijten)) and was told in no uncertain terms that I would be expelled from the summercamp if I was caught selling a paper of the CWI. Of course, such a bland attack on democratic freedoms was ignored but I and another comrade made the mistake of not openly attacking this and so we so we sold them a little more covertly.

Of course this was found out, we were portrayed as being "sneaky" to the rest of the summercamp (who had no knowledge of Renske's ban) and were then banned from the site.

This is just to give one example of many of these clashes, but it is perhaps noteworthy because it had quite a few longer lasting repercussions and at least played a role in my expulsion from the party in 2009 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/expelled-dutch-socialist-t118386/index.html?t=118386).

In any case, from 2006 to 2009 I gradually identified myself more and more with the CWI and, therefore, with Trotskyist politics. Here too I took up quite some leading roles: joining the national leadership (such as it was, it was only a small section) in 2008 and in 2009 representing the Dutch section on the International Executive Committee and the European Bureau (a subset of the IEC of the European sections) and being the site admin since 2009.

Since early 2009 I started drifting again however. Two events were of most impact to this: In April there was a short lived CWI webforum I setup with a few other Revlefters. The IMT had something similar, so why not the CWI? However, after a few days we announced it on Facebook and within hours I got mails from the International Secretariat, Belgian chairperson and a Dutch member of the national leadership to put it down immediately. I was told by one of these how "hyenas" were already waiting to "tear apart" the CWI because of this forum.

Another event was actually more of a process that lasted a year and revolved around the question: "What is actually a programme?". The CWI doesn't really have much of a programme in the sense of a document around which the party is built. Instead there is a method that is built on all kinds of documents, ranging from the Communist Manifesto via the first four congresses of the Comintern to the Transitional Programme and much in between. From these result various lists with demands for various situations.

I came to the view that this approach was rather sectarian and elitist as you don't simply walk to the masses and say "hey, please read this small library to see what we're all about!". No, you go to the masses and present them with this or that "wishlist" and hope it radicalises them. To understand the method though takes years of training, a process more commonly referred to as "consolidating". It results in a stratified organisation were the leadership, the most "consolidated" after all, dishes out the line, commonly without a critical view by the membership. In fact, membership is often hostile to dissenting views and dissenters often just end up leaving the organisation.

Around the same time DNZ referred me to the CPGB and since I started reading the Weekly Worker my political views broadened, went deeper, became fuller. Here was not a publication that just dished out "yet another line" but was actually debating, had different views that were allowed to clash with one another. When I started out this was somewhat confusing for me: Who was "right" after all? All the sides made quite good points most of the time!

Since then I deepened my understanding of Marxist theory, history and political practice. I'm still a CWI member, although not a very active one anymore (note: the section too is pretty lifeless) and I recently rejoined the SP, but no longer as an entryist (something I described as a "raiding party" recently (http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?b=18849)), but as someone who seeks to convince the existing workers movement of Marxism, let them embrace their revolutionary self-emancipation through the struggle for communism :)

It took some time, but I'd say I'm pretty solid in my views (http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?u=12488) now and don't really see another "thought revolution" coming soon.

TL;DR
Democratic socialist -> Trotskyist -> Orthodox Marxist

bcbm

21st April 2013, 10:31

nothing -> anarchist -> some sort of communist with fetish for nat lib armed fuckers -> anarchist -> bitter, cynical nihilist

Flying Purple People Eater

21st April 2013, 11:06

Apolitical -> Semi-political (fuck Bush! Fuck Israel!) -> Vaguely political (Inheritance is unfair and is nothing more than coin-based dynasty! Why are some people born with millions when I can barely afford a phone? Why the formality in government? Why is it bad for men to wear skirts?) -> Anarchy, under the impression that all 'communists' were the apologetic and disturbing Stalinists I'd come to despise -> Commie forever.

dēmistĕfī

21st April 2013, 11:18

I Am that I am.

Crux

21st April 2013, 11:30

anarchist -> councilist -> trotskyist
pre 2007 I had a bit of an infantile disorder. Then I joined the Party and all was well. ;)1

p0is0n

21st April 2013, 12:19

Interesting how so many people here were libertarians at some point. Revleft, småborgerlighetens högborg? Heh.

Apolitical (when I was a kid) > communist. And not out of any fancy fucking reasons either, no "ohh i was 14 and the suffering of the 3rd world was upsetting, then I read the communist manifesto and everything became fucking clear as shit to me".

Danielle Ni Dhighe

21st April 2013, 13:05

Apolitical---> Liberal---> Eco-Anarchist---> DeLeonist---> Marxist ---> Non-Demoninational Leftist---> Marxist---> Libertarian Marxist

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 13:20

Became a leninist at 15-16, soon became an Anarchist, into my twenties now and still an anarchist. Into workplace organising a bit but with my job people are scared of being binned so it is quite hard.

We all had a tiny glass of champers in the staff room when maggie died, that is about as radical as things get when most of us there are precarious workers.

I find a lot of commonality with certain french gun toting not giving a fuck about the guillotine Anarchists but really just focus on talking about simple issues with workmates, friends and family rather than doing what people on here seem to do and shout at anyone disagrees and call for bans.

Oh I also started figuring out at like 18 I probably need to become more sensitive to the T in LGBT and have been reading up on the subject. I also shagged s guy who dresses up as a girl recently and looks like a girl, but with a really big willy WHO IDENTIFIES AS A GAY FEM??. Not sure if that is the same as trans but it was great regardless.
I found that my politics opened up my sexual horizons massively.

Vanilla

21st April 2013, 13:35

moderate democrat-ish ---> extremely liberal ---> socialist ---> communist ---> anarchist ---> anarcho-communist

Jimmie Higgins

21st April 2013, 13:36

I found that my politics opened up my sexual horizons massively.

Ha-ha, so leninist -> anarchist -> mactivist? :grin:

rather than doing what people on here seem to do and shout at anyone disagrees and call for bans.While many people were clearly enraged in the thread you are alluding to and there was a lot of unproductive polarizing things said all-around (and I can see how you would be frustrated), just to be clear, people were calling for bans based on a preception of Islamophobia (leaving aside if those perceptions were accurate or not), not "disagreement".

Have you seen the threads here? How would anyone not be banned if "disagreement" alone was the reason for banning?

Blake's Baby

21st April 2013, 13:45

Democratic socialist > Stalinist > Anarchist (from teens to 30s) > Left Communist.

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 13:47

[QUOTE=Jimmie Higgins;2610052]Ha-ha, so leninist -> anarchist -> mactivist? :grin:

While many people were clearly enraged in the thread you are alluding to and there was a lot of unproductive polarizing things said all-around (and I can see how you would be frustrated), just to be clear, people were calling for bans based on a preception of Islamophobia (leaving aside if those perceptions were accurate or not), not "disagreement".

There is a political ghetto on this site that I have not seen the likes off since trolling capitalists on an all capitalist forum and educating them on the fact that Darwin said one of the the biggest factors in evolution is mutual aid.

They then defined mutual aid as someone hiring someone lol.

People on here also have this thing where they support castro despite him sending gay people to labour camps. They say I have to not hate muslims despite the fact everyone I have ever met has being a homophobic prick.

They basically need to say anything going against their political slant is a racist, or whateveraphobe and say fuck you to society by championing the Muslim people in some weird westerners burden tragic situation.

Kalinin's Facial Hair

21st April 2013, 14:12

Apolitical (kid) > sort of anarchist/council communist (things were a bit confused back then) > marxist

Bostana

21st April 2013, 14:17

Democrat -> Republican ->democrat again -> Michael Moore fetish -> FUCK POLITICS ->Uncle Joe -> Chairman Mao -> Marxist

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 14:19

Democrat -> Republican ->democrat again -> Michael Moore fetish -> FUCK POLITICS ->Uncle Joe -> Chairman Mao -> Marxist

The fuck politics one is lingering with me in a nihilist stupor. I nearly killed god then killed myself ala Nietzsche

NoOneIsIllegal

21st April 2013, 14:29

Apolitical/ignorant > Democratic Socialist > Anarchist/Syndicalist > Fucking godless commie heathen.

Art Vandelay

21st April 2013, 14:53

I started reading Marxist literature at about the age of 13-14. I think I read the manifesto about 5-6 times before I ever fully started to understand what M&E were on about. I started self describing as a Marxist at a very young age, but don't feel I had a proper grasp on it. After graduating highschool, I kinda dropped politics for a bit and fell deep into nihilism. I was still self-describing as a Marxist, but wasn't reading any literature or anything. Eventually I got back into it, but had a brief foray into individualist and insurrectionary anarchism. Eventually my better senses won and I've since returned to the Marxist method.

Trotskyist - Individualist/Insurrectionary - Orthodox Marxist.

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 14:54

l'EnfermÃ©

21st April 2013, 15:03

Mod action:

I Am that I am.
You are also receiving a verbal warning for spamming broseph.

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 15:05

Democrat -> Republican ->democrat again -> Michael Moore fetish -> FUCK POLITICS ->Uncle Joe -> Chairman Mao -> Marxist>homophobic one liner specialist

Fixed for you good fellow.

Dropdead

21st April 2013, 15:26

Nothing -> Democrat -> ''Communist'' (for about a week) -> Liberal (:glare:) -> Anarchist -> Marxist -> Marxist-Leninist

Starship Stormtrooper

21st April 2013, 15:26

So starting when I was about 10

Liberal-> Social Democrat-> Marxist (around 14 at the time)-> Stalinist-> Maoist-> MTW (at least I wasn't a US libertarian like SOME people :D)-> apolitical (this is roughly age 16)-> anarcho-syndicalist -> platformist

l'EnfermÃ©

21st April 2013, 15:27

Mod action:

Fixed for you good fellow.

So you are taking bostana's post and editing it relation to the shit fest in the boston bombing thread where you were called out for being racist and making a homophobic remark?

Consider this is a verbal warning for trolling.

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 15:30

Mod action:

So you are taking bostana's post and editing it relation to the shit fest in the boston bombing thread where you were called out for being racist and making a homophobic remark?

Consider this is a verbal warning for trolling.

No it was in response to his gay rape joke in another thread. Thanks.

Desy

21st April 2013, 15:41

Started republican, then right wing libertarian ( and I facepalm everyday that I was pro neo liberalism at a time in my life), then came Marx and Engles, some Trotsky, Lenin and Kautsky. I'm still not sure where I fall I like some ideas and dislike others. Also, still need to read more. I just know I'm not a left comm, so I'm on a good path now ;)

Narodnik

21st April 2013, 16:02

nationalist -> nationalist social-democrat -> internationalist (+national liberation) reformist democratic socialist -> internationalist (+national liberation) revolutionary democratic socialist -> internationalist revolutionary democratic socialist.

Philosophos

21st April 2013, 16:07

12-16 years old fascist with lots of neo-nazi simmilarities. 16-17 apolitical (I was tired from all the politicians and I couldn't think of a way out). 18-to forever (I suppose) communist. I still try to find what kind of communist I am because I can't really take action. I'm not independant (my father helps me by donating money in my pocket) so I will wait for some years until I can stand on my own and then I will become active.

Nevsky

21st April 2013, 16:12

national-liberal (as in the european bourgeois revolutions from the 19th century) -> mussolinian fascist (for a very short time) -> communist -> maoist -> apolitical nihilist -> eurocommunist -> democratic socialist -> marxist-leninist

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 16:18

Comrade Nasser

21st April 2013, 16:25

Fixed for you good fellow.

I'm only going to do this one more time:

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1345/52/1345522139468.png

Durruti's friend

21st April 2013, 16:26

I changed my political positions quickly when I was a kid, mostly because I knew almost nothing about them.

More or less like this:

social democrat > the "I'm a socialist but not a communist" faze > democratic socialist > titoist > almost-primitivist > mutualist > quasi-anarchist > anarchist > anarcho-syndicalist

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 16:29

I'm only going to do this one more time:

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1345/52/1345522139468.png

Why are you obsessed with me? Passive aggressive predjudice is still not cool. Please stop posting me pictures like some weird obsessive teenage nerd. Cheers.

Comrade Alex

21st April 2013, 16:30

Centrist-libertarian-liberal- woke the f*** up- Marxist

Art Vandelay

21st April 2013, 16:32

Man some of these political changes are nuts. I mean I know my progression had a bump in the road when I started reading a bunch of Stirner, but still.

Ravachol

21st April 2013, 16:50

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 16:52

Crimethinc. influenced -> 'autonomist'/operaist (though basically a left-leninist in practice) -> anarcho-syndicalist -> whatever who cares (I guess broadly speaking ultra-leftist would be appropriate).

How did you navigate from crimethinc to having the most badass prole gang* username ever?

Futility Personified

21st April 2013, 17:09

Conservative ....> Borderline Fascist .....> Stalinist ......> Trotskyist .....> Anarchist ....> i'm not really sure, support the dominant left paradigm but still got love for anarchism

a_wild_MAGIKARP

21st April 2013, 17:13

My family never raised me to have a certain political ideology. I was largely apolitical until about a year and a half or almost 2 years ago. Well, except in 2008 I remember liking Obama, but just in a "yeah he seems cool" kind of way, because he said he wanted to stop the wars, etc.

But anyway, in mid to late 2011 I started paying attention to the news and things that go on in the world, geopolitics etc, which led me to read about political ideologies. I've always hated selfish and greedy people, and I thought "well, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark seem like the best countries in the world, so they must be doing something right", so I became a social democrat. (And I still think they're probably the best countries in the world right now, but obviously not good enough, as they're capitalist.)

At the same time, I was strongly against western imperialism and Israel (from watching RT I guess) which made me kind of like Ron Paul, but not so much for his economic views, just his "let's stop all the wars" talk. Then he would say "and we need a free market economy" etc and I would just think "uhh, yeah, sure, whatever that means", lol.

I've always been really skeptical about trusting government propaganda and the media, so my opinion of communism at that point was pretty neutral (not "OMG NO FREEDOM!!"), and I didn't really know what it was. I read about it on the internet and was interested pretty quickly. I also watched some videos by MaoistRebelNews (yes, I know he can be stupid with some things, but he's got one or a couple videos that are really helpful for people trying to understand socialism). I still considered myself a social democrat at that point, but a very leftist one with communist sympathies, but I wasn't convinced that communism was actually possible, and I thought it wasn't worth trying to achieve. Well, reading about it some more changed my mind, and I became a communist.

As for my tendency, last summer I considered myself a plain Marxist, and I liked Lenin but really hated Stalin, which led me to consider myself a "Trotskyist" for a short time, but I hardly knew anything about Trotskyism.
After reading revleft and the views of various tendencies, I now consider myself a Leninist, as in very Lenin-influenced Marxist, but who doesn't really pick a side between Stalin and Trotsky.

So basically,
Apolitical ---> Social democrat mixed with anti-imperialist views and even Ron Paul sympathies ---> plain Marxist ---> "Trotskyist" ---> Leninist

Rational Radical

21st April 2013, 17:31

Apolitical(grew up working class,questioned the existence of poverty,wanted a sense of solidarity in the black community)-Black Nationalist(influenced by Malcolm X and the NOI,Marcus Garvey and others )-Democratic Socialist(Shifted my focus to class,wanted to change the world through reforms and "democracy")-Now I'm influenced by mostly anarchism and Left Communism.

Rakshaal

21st April 2013, 17:41

Liberal --> Ayn Rand Libertarian (I still cringe) --> Bourgeoisie Green Party type --> Democratic Socialist --> Individualist Anarchist --> Anarcho-Communist --> Marxist

Almost fell into the "conspiracy theory for everything" trap when I was a libertarian.

Slippers

21st April 2013, 17:43

Vaguely liberal/"green" - Christian Conservative (far-right) - Moderate Conservative - Libertarian (far-right Objectivist sort) - "Undecided" - Undecided but very pro lgbt and woman's rights - "Socialist" - anarchist - not totally sure, but I'm fairly certain the "truth" is on the radical left

Ravachol

21st April 2013, 18:07

How did you navigate from crimethinc to having the most badass prole gang* username ever?

Because I have a very soft spot for melancholy and desperate revolt, refusing to kneel even if there's little to no positive horizon. And imo Ravachol embodied that as a person.

Besides, while Crimethinc. introduced me to explicit radical politics (though I have held such sentiments for almost as long as I can remember) and I still think their air of romance and slick design skills are pretty sweet, I was 14 or so at the time so that's a long time ago.

Dear Leader

21st April 2013, 18:18

I went from being not political to radically right wing (fascist) tonot being political to being a supporter of Chavez to Trotskyist.

Quail

21st April 2013, 18:22

When I was younger I had a mixed bag of views, some of them reactionary, that I'd basically absorbed from other people around me like family, friends, etc. I then became aware of environmental and feminist issues, but lacked any real views on economics, and then I did a bit of reading, went to a few meetings and solidified my opinions as an anarchist/libertarian communist.

So... "confused"/apolitical -> green/feminist liberal -> unsure communist -> libertarian communist.

cyu

21st April 2013, 18:41

[Full story in my "About Me" section, but...]

mildly liberal -> solid (American) Democrat -> democratic socialist -> radical unionist -> anarcho-syndicalist

I still can't believe how much I supported every single plank of the Democratic platform when I felt like I had to defend them from Republicans. I guess it's a great way to lose your sense of self and ability to think independently.

When I was arguing for democratic socialism, I never took anarchists seriously. It was more an emotional than intellectual rejection though - "How can anybody who call themselves 'anarchists' have serious ideas?"

It wasn't until after I was exposed to methods of organization that they never teach you in school or show in the mass media that I was probably really radicalized. "If this is possible, and they refused to tell us about it, what else is possible?"

I'm interested in economics these days, but not in terms of studying any famous academics or thinkers studied by academia. Rather more in terms of analysis of what I see in economic news... and how actions can be taken by either the poor or from the point of view of anarchists.

The Douche

21st April 2013, 18:44

Ele'ill

21st April 2013, 18:44

radical environmental post-civ political pessimist - troll - anarchist troll - an influence of post-left/[email protected]/nihilist-Whinge - now probably all of that but mainly a lazy whinging troll

bad ideas actualised by alcohol

21st April 2013, 18:54

I have always been interested in politics. My parents raised me a social-democrat. However that doesn't mean they always were. My dad was an anarchist back in the seventies, and so his friends were left. I also have some former-stalinist family members. So, I have quite a left-wing family.
Ok, so I was a social-democrat in my youth. Well, I probably wouldn't have identified as a social-democrat but looking back that is what I was, I would just say that I was left-wing.
Coming from a Jewish background I had always more respect for communists because of their work in the Dutch, and worldwide, resistance movement. I always was interested in groups like Antifa.
After a quick visit to being an Obama-fanboy, I became interested in Anonymous and after that Occupy. This was when Wikileaks was hot and happening.
I started following Anonymous groups and even started identifying me as Anonymous. Of course my activity was merely putting an LOIC client on but for me it was quite something back then.
However I also had doubts. I found criticism coming from Anonymous but no answers.
At that same time in History class we started delving into the subject of Communism. Instead of starting with the things that happened they gave a basic, and very limited, description of what Marx' views were. Of course these were not close to the real thing, but it was something. In the class I had some "Aha! Erlebnis"-feeling. So I started looking what Communism was.
Eventually I found RevLeft which helped me a lot. Because I was quite young and impatient, I guess, the Stalinists made the most sense to me and I started to call myself a Marxist-Leninist, without really knowing what it was. So I started asking around and got interested in Hoxha, became a bit more well versed in Marxist-Leninist "theory" and became a Hoxhaist.
After one member here got banned a few marxists-leninists started our own forum. And I did quite a lot there, being the admin mostly.
A few months later I joined a forum that shall not be named, and had talks with left-communists.
It's not like we talked much politics, I mostly was made fun off, much of it my own fault, but from what I saw it was different. So I got less interested in marxism-leninism and got more into a learning phase. I had read Marx' works but admittedly I hadn't really understood them, some argue I still don't. This helped quite a bit developing my views.
I had talks with left-communists but I didn't really feel I could be a left-communist. On revleft I got interested in Orthodox Marxism. I really liked the posts of Grenzer, back then Ghost Bebel who is no longer an Orthodox Marxist, and Q.
I found myself agreeing with the Orthodox Marxists quite a lot.
And right now I would probably come closest to the Orthodox Marxist crowd, although I can't say my views are fully developed either.

So in short: Social-Democrat -> Stalinist -> Orthodox Marxism

Le Socialiste

21st April 2013, 18:56

New Deal(ish) Democrat --> New Deal(ish) Democrat reading Marx on the side --> Marxist --> Trotskyist --> Luxemburgist --> Anarcho-Syndicalist --> Anarcho-Syndicalist with Democratic Socialist sympathies (this is what I was around the time I joined revleft, actually) --> Anarchist --> Anarcho-Communist / Libertarian Socialist --> Marxist again.

High School Marxist

21st April 2013, 19:00

Democrat --> Republican --> Democrat --> Social-Democrat --> Marxist --> Trotskyist --> More or less Democratic Socialist with heavy Trot sympathies

We'reEnough

21st April 2013, 19:17

Social Democrat -> Apolitical -> Liberal -> Suffered brain damage -> Labour Party (UK) -> Recovered from brain damage -> Anarcho-Communist -> Marxist

Slavoj Zizek's Balls

21st April 2013, 19:20

RubBzkZzpUA

I don't really "change" political affiliations, I just agree with the things I agree with, the title you put on it is so irrelevant, its just a game for people to play so they feel like they are in a cool club with cool friends.

The same with me, I take in what stands up to criticism and I ignore anything that doesn't (without the hassle of labels).

Aleksandr Karelin

21st April 2013, 19:25

Goblin

21st April 2013, 19:33

Right wing libertarian -> Liberal -> Social Democrat -> Stalinist -> Trotskyist

cyu

21st April 2013, 20:10

its just a game for people to play so they feel like they are in a cool club with cool friends.

Truth be told, revleft has some of coolest people out there ;)

Skyhilist

21st April 2013, 20:19

its just a game for people to play so they feel like they are in a cool club with cool friends.

who cares it's interesting nonetheless

B5C

21st April 2013, 20:28

I didn't care about politics --> 9/11 Happen --> Went full blown Neo-Conservative (I should have listen to Yoda (http://youtu.be/kFnFr-DOPf8)) --> Obama election happen. Had Republican depression mode --> Took a break from politics because I thought Obama will destroy this nation --> I've became a moderate conservative and joined up with the Whigs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Whig_Party) --> I started to continue to more leftward and listening to progressive radio --> I lost my job of three years. I started reading Marxism because I wanted to learn every political theory during my job hunting. ---> I started to get some realization with capitalism :blink: ---> Joined the US Democrats as an Social Democrat ---> Democratic Socialist (Then I found out that most DSers are just US Democrat supporters ---> Left the US Democrats ---> Then became a full blown Socialist with Trotskyism leanings.

TheGodlessUtopian

21st April 2013, 20:30

Ultra-conservative > Undefined Leftist > Semi-Trotskyist > ("Left") Maoist

FionnagÃ¡in

21st April 2013, 20:56

"Old Labour" social democrat -(radicalised by 2008 crisis)-> something roundabout an anarcho-syndicalist -(read some Marx)-> something roundabout an autonomist

Tjis

21st April 2013, 21:03

Been communist for as long as I've been vaguely politically aware. All that changed over the years was ideas on how to get there. I started out supporting the socialist party here. Having become interested in anarchism through online debates I read the anarchist FAQ, which turned me anarchist. Reading Kropotkin (Conquest of Bread) turned me communist. Reading the Organisational Platform of the Libertarian Communists convinced me of the platformist/especifismo style of organizing. Most recent development is reading Marx and absorbing a more materialist outlook on class struggle.

So 'communist' -> socialist party supporter -> anarchist -> anarcho-communist -> anarcho-communist (platformist) -> anarcho-communist (platformist/marxism thought)

Longer tendency names mean more political development right? :lol:

Bostana

21st April 2013, 21:28

Ultra-conservative > Undefined Leftist > Semi-Trotskyist > ("Left") Maoist

Were you out of the closet when you were conservative?

Fourth Internationalist

21st April 2013, 23:20

Wow it's amazing how some people used to be full blown neo-cons but are now communists.

Sinister Cultural Marxist

21st April 2013, 23:32

Wow it's amazing how some people used to be full blown neo-cons but are now communists.

Be careful - some people used to be full blown "communists" but are now neo-cons. People like Hitchens are (or, were in his case) probably on the left-wing of that group (so you can imagine how conservative the right wing of the ex-trot movement was :crying:)

B5C

21st April 2013, 23:38

Be careful - some people used to be full blown "communists" but are now neo-cons. People like Hitchens are (or, were in his case) probably on the left-wing of that group (so you can imagine how conservative the right wing of the ex-trot movement was :crying:)

The term Neo-Con has changed a lot after 9/11. The old guard of Neo-Cons were ex-trots ( Irving Kristol, Leo Strauss, & Paul Wolfowitz). The new ones don't care about the size of government, but just want an American Empire. (Max Boot & William Kristol)

Os Cangaceiros

21st April 2013, 23:44

I was an anarchist who was influenced by non-anarchist communism, now I'm more of a non-anarchist communist who's influenced by anarchism, if that makes any sense.

Anti-Traditional

22nd April 2013, 00:56

Irish Republican > Marxist-Leninist > Strongly Anti-Stalinist Marxist sympathetic to Left Communism

slum

22nd April 2013, 03:22

anti-zionist/anti-imperialist as a kid b/c the stuff my jewish relatives said was racist and gross --> weird angry teenage period of ayn rand, quoting founding fathers --> working shit jobs and chillin in mental hospitals/halfway home with other people who got failed by the system turned me feminist, anti-prison, anti-capitalist and anti-racist --> boyfriend got me into post-colonialist theory --> read frantz fanon, history of the BPP and disavowed pacifism --> got a college scholarship: "wait liberals say all this anti-imperialist anti-capitalist stuff but don't actually call for the end of capitalism even when austerity is screwing us blind" --> met some socialists at a palestine thing and bothered them about communism until they gave me some marx and lenin --> still dont know where i sit on the marxist left re: praxis but i am loving marx&engels, historical materialism, etc got more reading to do.

revleft is cool cause the org i'm with is weirdly strict about their non-orthodox-trotskyist party line, i like seeing what left communists and MLMs and anarchists think.

so basically anti-imperialist liberal --> libertarian --> confused anti-capitalist --> (confused) communist

ZenTaoist

22nd April 2013, 15:06

Liberal --> Democratic Socialist --> Marxist --> Anarcho-Communist

Tim Cornelis

22nd April 2013, 15:30

Leftist ultranationalism (Ba'athism and Syrian Social Nationalist Party inspired) --> General leftism, social-democracy --> Social liberalism --> Democratic socialism, gradualism, and individualist anarchism simultaneously --> Anarchist Communism --> Between anarchism and left communism

human strike

22nd April 2013, 16:15

Liberal (loosely) -> Trot (loosely) -> Autonomist Marxist (loosely) -> whatever

The transition from liberal to Trot was influenced by Marxist ideas. Trot to Autonomist Marxist was influenced by Anarcho-communist, left communist, Autonomist Marxist and Situationist ideas. Autonomist Marxist to whatever (like post-ultra-left or whatever) influenced by insurrectionist, post-left, feminist and communisation theory ideas.

I've never been a fan of labels though and have never been a member of an organisation.

I'm looking now to get into queer theory more since thus far I've neglected paying it enough attention and am noticing more and more that it expresses and builds on ideas I already have and have picked up from elsewhere. Anyone have any reading suggestions? I would go straight to Judith Butler but should probably start off with something simpler.

Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores

22nd April 2013, 16:21

I probably would have considered myself a lolberal democrat---> "Anarchist" although I had no real idea what I was talking about---> Anarchist with a pretty good understanding---> Marxist

ed miliband

22nd April 2013, 17:17

crass loving anarchist -> leftist anarchist -> just communist.

Dr Doom

22nd April 2013, 17:30

irish republican 'socialist' -> anarchist (platformist) -> communist...

DasFapital

23rd April 2013, 07:11

conservative->apolitical->semi-libertarian/conspiracy theorist (last two years of high school)-> went to college and discovered the "New Atheism" thing->Hitchens worshipper-> confused "anarchist" -> social democrat -> left leaning liberal -> democratic socialist -> communist

Ismail

23rd April 2013, 21:44

When I first became significantly interested in politics I identified with the Democrats and had a particular affinity for "progressives" like Dennis Kucinich. I always had an interest in communism though. I moved increasingly to the left, briefly describing myself as a "Democratic Socialist" while having an Olof Palme avatar. A Brezhnevite associated with the FRSO helped me find resources on the USSR (and Stalin of course) and I could have followed in his footsteps since I started using a Yuri Andropov avatar.

But I also had a faint interest in the history of Albania. The Brezhnevite made for a weird contrast: he strongly admired Slobodan Milošević and even attended his funeral. He also learned the Serbian language. He had a soft spot for Tito as well (which is consistent for historical pro-Soviet types, not so much modern-day Brezhnevites.) In any case I started reading about Hoxha and Albanian history. Back then (2005-2006) only a handful of his writings were online and Internet information on him and the pro-Albanian tendency was scarce. This encouraged me to actually buy books by Hoxha and on Socialist Albania. By the time I joined RevLeft I still wasn't quite sure what to make of Mao* but otherwise upheld Hoxha. Before long I concurred with his analysis there as well.

So yeah, no change since then.

* Some Maoists who don't completely denounce Hoxha claim he correctly denounced Hua Guofeng and Deng Xiaoping but "threw the baby out with the bathwater" by directly linking them to Mao and Maoism. Actually reading more about the subject convinced me Hoxha was right in his verdict that Maoism is a right-wing deviation from Marxism-Leninism.

Althusser

23rd April 2013, 21:48

Liberal ---> I <3 Lenin (but don't understand him) ---> Dabbled in Trotskyism (mostly because afraid of Stalin/ still didn't grasp theory) ---> Marxist-Leninist-Maoist

TheRedAnarchist23

23rd April 2013, 22:14

nazi - nothing - PCP communist - Anarchist-communist

TheGodlessUtopian

23rd April 2013, 22:24

Were you out of the closet when you were conservative?

I was in denial about my sexual orientation at the time. Aside from that I wasn't particularly active in politics other than simply holding them as views which I occasionally spouted to family. At any rate I believed that the conservatives I admired then had placed far too much emphasis on para-racist and Queerphobic trains-of-thought. So even then it was one of the areas which I diverged from them on.

Tenka

23rd April 2013, 22:24

Apolitical Dimwit - Maoist, borderline MTW - ???? (Love scattered writings of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Bordiga, and some others, but that doesn't say much. Some kind of Communist or Anarchist.)

Brutus

23rd April 2013, 22:53

nazi
By Marx's beard! The self styled anti authoritarian was a nazi! Well, David, at least you're no longer scum.

RaÃºl Duke

23rd April 2013, 22:58

social liberal- social democrat - general anarchist - anarcho-communism - marxian anarcho-communist - whatever I'm now.

The Intransigent Faction

23rd April 2013, 23:04

Liberal when I started paying attention to politics (pretty much when I started high school), raised by mostly Liberal parents > Social Democrat > Briefly dabbled in Ron Paul 'libertarianism' > Maoist tankie > Left-Communist (Not sure enough how my views match up relative to Luxemburg, Bordiga, etc. so I just stick with the broader term, which is probably for the best anyway).

Still holding on to aspects of Maoism, I guess, because I understand where "anti-imperialists" are coming from in some cases, supporting i.e the Syrian/Korean/whichever people against Western interventionism, and I have this urge whenever someone starts criticizing the USSR to point out "Well what about the millions+ that capitalism is still killing?" Still, I don't support the idea of a so-called "vanguard party".

LewisQ

24th April 2013, 00:24

Nationalist ---> Left nationalist ---> "Social Humanist" (yeah, I invented my own ideology) ---> Apolitical ---> Social democrat ---> Marxist ---> Trotskyist ---> Marxist Humanist, I guess?

Synthesis-

24th April 2013, 08:59

I grew up in the bay area its kind of a hotbed of left political thought but around the time i was 14-15 I considered myself a conservative but I didn't truely know what that meant. I grew up around liberals and I just saw alot of their ideas as shallow so I went with conservative and I had many fucked up outright reactionary views as well for someone young. But the past 3-4 years Capital has confronted me and I changed alot of my thought, and to be honest i feel shitty about alot of my previous views, Im seriously ashamed of views i once held considering how I grew up and such. But yea, I was a conservative then I was a lesser evil voting liberal democrat obama supporter for a extremly short time (2 months lol), read some anarchist writings then some marxist writings and i would say currently im a marxist with leninist sympathies. If anyone wants more info about a evolution send me a message its really to long to put in this reply.

Chris

24th April 2013, 21:23

Something like this:

Apolitical --> Socialdemocrat --> Ultranationalist --> Patriotic Socialist/Titoist --> Marxist-Leninist

Essentially, when I first began to become politically aware, I supported the current norwegian establishment, more or less. My father is a socialist and my mother is a social-democrat, and we have had periods of living in poverty and on welfare, which sat very deeply in me. Eventually I developed more nationalistic leanings, bordering on racism and fascism, although abandoned that in favour of a 'patriotic socialist' or semi-Titoist stance (although, I didn't know about Tito at the time), which developed into Marxism-Leninism once I actually started reading political theory.

The Jay

25th April 2013, 01:26

conservative religious zealot > libertarian > anarchist-com > some weird combination of stuff

skitty

26th April 2013, 03:51

american idiot--->revlefter:)

BTMFPHumanStrike

26th April 2013, 05:17

neo-con -> liberal -> crimethinc anarchist -> insurrectionary anarchist -> leftcom -> communisateur ( à la Dauvé/Théorie Communiste) -> communisateur (à la Tiqqun)

I'm not a Tiqqunist, because those don't exist. I'm interested in developing a non-ideological, non-objective revolutionary theory/strategy.

Geiseric

26th April 2013, 06:06

Liberal ---> I <3 Lenin (but don't understand him) ---> Dabbled in Trotskyism (mostly because afraid of Stalin/ still didn't grasp theory) ---> Marxist-Leninist-Maoist

but you live in new york, where there isn't any peasantry, who how would Maoism really apply? Trotskyists write stuff specifically about the U.S. especially ones like James P. Cannon. You should read some of their stuff, you'd like it, especially Cannon.

Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant'

26th April 2013, 08:52

Trotskyist (in my mid teens) --> Liberal (early twenties) --> Green (for a lil bit) --> Communist --> Anarcho Communist --> ? ? etc

l'EnfermÃ©

26th April 2013, 13:52

Well this thread has grown. If you want me to sticky it, thank this post or something.
(lol i'm not thanks-digging, I just don't want the thread to be derailed)

Ismail

26th April 2013, 17:55

but you live in new york, where there isn't any peasantry, who how would Maoism really apply? Trotskyists write stuff specifically about the U.S. especially ones like James P. Cannon. You should read some of their stuff, you'd like it, especially Cannon.We don't live in an age of kulaks or Tsarist gendarmes either but I don't think that disqualifies anyone from being a Leninist. You don't see the RCPUSA calling for peasant insurrections in Atlanta or something.

Also are you seriously saying American Maoists don't write about the USA? What the hell did the Black Panthers write about then? What did the great many Maoist rags of past and present in the USA write about (besides attacking other Maoist rags)?

I'm obviously not a Maoist, but what you said is so incredibly stupid I couldn't help but reply.

Geiseric

27th April 2013, 21:27

We don't live in an age of kulaks or Tsarist gendarmes either but I don't think that disqualifies anyone from being a Leninist. You don't see the RCPUSA calling for peasant insurrections in Atlanta or something.

Also are you seriously saying American Maoists don't write about the USA? What the hell did the Black Panthers write about then? What did the great many Maoist rags of past and present in the USA write about (besides attacking other Maoist rags)?

I'm obviously not a Maoist, but what you said is so incredibly stupid I couldn't help but reply.

What does anything mao tse tung has written about have to do with organizing the working class? Not guerilla strategy or running a state, but organizing the working class. Lenin and trotsky wrote plenty about organizing as opposed to Mao. That is what I meant. The black panthers and maoists have accomplished a lot, I never said otherwise. But I never understood people in the U.S's obsession with Mao nor Stalin. Both didn't contribute much in theory, what we can actually use today, to actual Marxism. They were statesmen when they did most of their theorizing and both only rose to power at all after murdering their opposition, or in maos case after the cpc's leadership were killed by kmt after Comintern's disastrous plans came to fruition repeatedly, ending in a purge of anybody who contested that the move of action was wrong. Mao completely abandoned organizing the working class by the 1930s, saying that it wasn't mature enough for a revolution; whereas the peasantry sure were!

FionnagÃ¡in

28th April 2013, 02:53

(Why is every post in this thread either three items long or like twelve items long? Surprisingly little middle-ground.)

Crixus

28th April 2013, 03:45

Kid who knew nothing (early 1980's) into a apathetic young teen (late 1980's/early 90's) who didn't care into a student (mid 1990's) who regurgitated much of what was being fed at ideological din din (dinner college) which was a sort of 'progressive' liberal combo and into anarchism in my early 20's after which I flirted with apathy again and then into reading more Marxist literature beyond sociology class and started rubbing elbows with various organizations into the late 1990's and and mid 2000's after which I flirted with apathy again and around 2007 (econ crisis) started getting involved in various little projects but all in all apathy is always just around the corner for me seeing I'm a pessimist and feel rather absurd at times acting as if material condition's are as such that Lenin experienced when Bolsheviks stormed the winter palace (longest sentence ever). I don't have any subversive inclinations or delusions of revolutionary grandeur and quite honestly the Occupy Wall St 'movement' was about as active as I've seen Americans get and it fell extremely short of any meaningful threat to capital and I'm fighting off the apathy as we speak, or, as I type this.

Ismail

28th April 2013, 13:38

What does anything mao tse tung has written about have to do with organizing the working class?Presumably Maoists read Lenin and Stalin on that issue, although they do stress things like the Maoist conception of the mass line, etc.

But I never understood people in the U.S's obsession with Mao nor Stalin. Both didn't contribute much in theory, what we can actually use today, to actual Marxism.Stalin defined Leninism, fought against revisionism, and provided to the world the first example of socialist construction.

Cannon, by virtue of being an American, obviously wrote much on American subjects and dealt with them in greater detail than an ethnic Georgian living and working in the USSR his entire life could be expected to do. I fail to see how this means that Stalin wrote nothing on "what we can actually use today," anymore than Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc. They all upheld scientific socialism and promoted its creative application in varying conditions.

This exaggerated emphasis on "what's relevant to us today" or whatever is the same stuff that fueled revisionism and American exceptionalism in the CPUSA from the 50's onwards. This idea that somehow promoting "indigenous," "American" Marxism will result in American workers flocking to "their own" party is lame and ultimately self-defeating.

For what it's worth though, Stalin did make speeches to the CPUSA: http://www.marx2mao.com/Stalin/SCPUSA29.html

A Revolutionary Tool

28th April 2013, 14:15

Die-hard, let's nuke Iraq type Republican>Ron Paul fan(for about a week before I learned all of his positions)>communist. Took a radical turn but I've been a commie for years now. I don't really like to put a tendency because I don't really feel the need to.

Anglo-Saxon Philistine

28th April 2013, 14:46

We don't live in an age of kulaks or Tsarist gendarmes either but I don't think that disqualifies anyone from being a Leninist. You don't see the RCPUSA calling for peasant insurrections in Atlanta or something.

I realise that this is besides the point, but it seems to me that the kulak stratum is alive and unfortunately well; in the European Union they receive massive subsidies, and in Croatia, their tractoriads (protests that they use as a tool to attain massive subsidies) are almost the stuff of legends.

I was raised (for political reasons) as a Catholic, during the civil war and concurrently with a massive upswing of ethnic chauvinism. My first political acts included cheering for "our" side of the war, and so on. I was guided by certain vague notions that would later coalesce into a slightly socially conservative nationalism. Funnily enough, I can't remember ever being opposed to, e.g., queer rights, but then again, I can't recall ever being explicitly supportive of them either. And I was opposed to certain instances of abortion.

This phase, fortunately, did not last long, and I soon moved closer to the bourgeois-liberal opposition to the Nazi Tuđman regime, first as an enthusiastic and then an opportunistic supporter of the liberal Croatian People's Party (HNS). I developed an interest in socialism at this point, but it was all fairly "theoretical" - socialism seemed interesting, but untenable at that historical moment. The misconceptions I had about socialism and about Marxism are, quite frankly, embarrassing.

When Tuđman died and the regime of the Croatian Democratic Union (the fascist party, HDZ) was replaced by a coalition of liberals and social-democrats, I moved slightly to the left, mostly out of exasperation with the pace of reforms. I developed an interest in China, and might even have considered myself a Maoist at some point (a Maoist that still voted for the HNS, no less).

The defeat of the coalition and the victory of the HDZ (generously helped by the most declassed and reactionary elements of the proletariat) was a breaking point for me; my views evolved into a fairly dark mix of Michelsian elitism, support for "socialism from above" that was little more than tightly regimented capitalism, X-Crise technocracy, some elements of conservative (Weber, Durkheim, Parsons) and Marxist (Althusser, Poulantzas) sociology, and so on.

The second breaking point corresponded with my first year in college, and the realisation that those elements I had idealised as progressive - scientists, academicians, artists, experts of all kinds - were just as bigoted, reactionary and violent as the "lower" classes. I became rather apolitical, though I would perhaps refer to myself as a conservative (since I was still influenced by Parsons, Durkheim and others - at this point, I actively supported certain oppressed groups, but thought liberal methods actively harmed them) liberal, tending to etatism in economic matters.

I became a Marxist after seriously studying Marxist theory and reassessing my interests; this is, I admit, an ongoing process. I was first attracted to the revisionism of Althusser and Poulantzas, then I flirted with their humanistic opponents and with Mao Zedong Thought. I had a passing interest in Bordigism.

Studying Lenin, along with Trotsky, some Stalin, and Mao, led to my present position; "orthodox" (not Third Camp) Bolshevism-Leninism that is probably more sympathetic to Leninist unity than most.

Oh gods, I probably sound like a complete idiot, if not an outright authoritarian maniac, now. Perhaps there is some truth to that; I do tend to be horribly eclectic at times, and I still have a real problem trusting people in practice.

What does anything mao tse tung has written about have to do with organizing the working class? Not guerilla strategy or running a state, but organizing the working class.

Concepts such as the mass line, two-line struggle and so on come to mind. I am not saying that those are good concepts; obviously I don't put much stock in them, being a Trotskyist, but one can't simply dismiss Mao as a theoretician. Besides, "Maoism" includes more than Mao, just as Trotsky is not the only Trotskyist writer.

Likewise with Stalin; here the relevant concepts would be socialism in one country, aggravation of the class struggle in the period of socialism and so on.

Geiseric

30th April 2013, 07:44

I realise that this is besides the point, but it seems to me that the kulak stratum is alive and unfortunately well; in the European Union they receive massive subsidies, and in Croatia, their tractoriads (protests that they use as a tool to attain massive subsidies) are almost the stuff of legends.

I was raised (for political reasons) as a Catholic, during the civil war and concurrently with a massive upswing of ethnic chauvinism. My first political acts included cheering for "our" side of the war, and so on. I was guided by certain vague notions that would later coalesce into a slightly socially conservative nationalism. Funnily enough, I can't remember ever being opposed to, e.g., queer rights, but then again, I can't recall ever being explicitly supportive of them either. And I was opposed to certain instances of abortion.

This phase, fortunately, did not last long, and I soon moved closer to the bourgeois-liberal opposition to the Nazi Tuđman regime, first as an enthusiastic and then an opportunistic supporter of the liberal Croatian People's Party (HNS). I developed an interest in socialism at this point, but it was all fairly "theoretical" - socialism seemed interesting, but untenable at that historical moment. The misconceptions I had about socialism and about Marxism are, quite frankly, embarrassing.

When Tuđman died and the regime of the Croatian Democratic Union (the fascist party, HDZ) was replaced by a coalition of liberals and social-democrats, I moved slightly to the left, mostly out of exasperation with the pace of reforms. I developed an interest in China, and might even have considered myself a Maoist at some point (a Maoist that still voted for the HNS, no less).

The defeat of the coalition and the victory of the HDZ (generously helped by the most declassed and reactionary elements of the proletariat) was a breaking point for me; my views evolved into a fairly dark mix of Michelsian elitism, support for "socialism from above" that was little more than tightly regimented capitalism, X-Crise technocracy, some elements of conservative (Weber, Durkheim, Parsons) and Marxist (Althusser, Poulantzas) sociology, and so on.

The second breaking point corresponded with my first year in college, and the realisation that those elements I had idealised as progressive - scientists, academicians, artists, experts of all kinds - were just as bigoted, reactionary and violent as the "lower" classes. I became rather apolitical, though I would perhaps refer to myself as a conservative (since I was still influenced by Parsons, Durkheim and others - at this point, I actively supported certain oppressed groups, but thought liberal methods actively harmed them) liberal, tending to etatism in economic matters.

I became a Marxist after seriously studying Marxist theory and reassessing my interests; this is, I admit, an ongoing process. I was first attracted to the revisionism of Althusser and Poulantzas, then I flirted with their humanistic opponents and with Mao Zedong Thought. I had a passing interest in Bordigism.

Studying Lenin, along with Trotsky, some Stalin, and Mao, led to my present position; "orthodox" (not Third Camp) Bolshevism-Leninism that is probably more sympathetic to Leninist unity than most.

Oh gods, I probably sound like a complete idiot, if not an outright authoritarian maniac, now. Perhaps there is some truth to that; I do tend to be horribly eclectic at times, and I still have a real problem trusting people in practice.

Concepts such as the mass line, two-line struggle and so on come to mind. I am not saying that those are good concepts; obviously I don't put much stock in them, being a Trotskyist, but one can't simply dismiss Mao as a theoretician. Besides, "Maoism" includes more than Mao, just as Trotsky is not the only Trotskyist writer.

Likewise with Stalin; here the relevant concepts would be socialism in one country, aggravation of the class struggle in the period of socialism and so on.

People on this website don't like the word "totalitarian" being applied to the deformed states which lord over the rest of the working class population; but their theory to me is irrelevant due to the concequences of the actual actions they took which were unprincipled and driven by the pressures of international counter revolution. Socialism as well as any economy can't survive in one country, and in order to import things needed for the country they had to sideline the marxist idea of international revolution. This process may of not at first been advertant but nonetheless it led to the restoration of capitalism.

Thus their theory reflects the nature of the communist party of china's and of russia's bonapartist character. Lenin's, Trotsky's, Gramsci, Kautsky, Luxembourg, Engels, Cannon, and Marx's (to name a few organizing leaders) theory have to do with examining capitalism which is invaluable as well as what the functions of the communist parties should be.

Yuppie Grinder

30th April 2013, 07:51

Not sure > Marxist > Marxist Leftcom

Brutus

30th April 2013, 08:05

Marxist Leftcom
Is Marxist really needed? Left communism is marxist, so it's rather redundant

Anglo-Saxon Philistine

30th April 2013, 09:49

People on this website don't like the word "totalitarian" being applied to the deformed states which lord over the rest of the working class population;

To be honest, I don't like the word "totalitarian", period. The distinction between authoritarianism and "totalitarianism" in the modern sense (the term itself was coined by Gentile in one of his attempts to give fascism a coherent ideology, but Gentile's usage is at best tangentially related to that of Kirkpatrick and her partners in crime) is part of the bourgeois cold war ideology. How it's supposed to work is that those regimes that control the private lives of their citizens more than some fairly vague threshold are "totalitarian", while the rest are authoritarian. But in practice, it is fairly obvious that those regimes that the Western bourgeoisie oppose are called "totalitarian", while those that they support are "authoritarian" - so that Chile and Saudi Arabia are "merely" authoritarian, whereas Cuba is of course a totalitarian hellhole.

And even if you understand "totalitarian" as synonymous with "authoritarian", the image these two terms invoke is often at variance with the realities of deformed workers' states. The bureaucratic strata in these states, for example, need not rely on physical elimination of political enemies, and in fact few do. The level of police repression is comparable to that in bourgeois states. And personal freedoms are sometimes greater than those in bourgeois states on the same level of development (consider the situation in Democratic Germany and in the BRD, for example).

This is hardly satisfactory, of course. As socialists, we should strive for more, which is why political revolutions are necessary in deformed workers' states. But at the same time, we should not simply accept every criticism of these states as valid, and we should be particularly vary of implying they are worse than bourgeois states.

but their theory to me is irrelevant due to the concequences of the actual actions they took which were unprincipled and driven by the pressures of international counter revolution. Socialism as well as any economy can't survive in one country, and in order to import things needed for the country they had to sideline the marxist idea of international revolution. This process may of not at first been advertant but nonetheless it led to the restoration of capitalism.

Thus their theory reflects the nature of the communist party of china's and of russia's bonapartist character. Lenin's, Trotsky's, Gramsci, Kautsky, Luxembourg, Engels, Cannon, and Marx's (to name a few organizing leaders) theory have to do with examining capitalism which is invaluable as well as what the functions of the communist parties should be.

I never meant to imply that socialism in one country, two line struggle etc. are convincing theories. Even so, they are theories, and modern Marxism-Leninism can't simply be dismissed as being without theory.

Let me put it this way. I consider Marxism-Leninism to be thoroughly incorrect. If I ever appear to be defending it, it is simply because I recognise that honest revolutionaries can be Marxists-Leninists and that we should engage them in comradely discussion, not sectarian sniping. And yes, Marxism-Leninism often leads to gross political errors (so does "Third Camp" Trotskyism), but at the same time, we can't really treat every Marxist-Leninist as if they were Soviet bureaucrats.

Consider socialism in one country. Is it a compelling theory? I would say that it isn't. Has it often led to nationalist deviations? I would say that it has. But do Marxist-Leninist view it as a nationalist theory, do they welcome those nationalist deviations? They do not. They consider SioC to be part of an internationalist strategy.

I think that is an exceedingly poor strategy! But would it not be better to discuss these things in a comradely manner, instead of simply shouting at each other like we usually do?

Left Turn

30th April 2013, 10:56

Social-Democrat -> Christian Socialist/Cuba supporter -> Spartacist sympathizer (subscribed to their newspaper for a year but did not join) -> Unafilliated Trotskyist/Cuba supporter -> Ecosocalist/Post-Trotskyist/anti-imperialist/anti-opressionist/Palestine solidarity activist/supporter of Latin American governments in Cuba, Venezuela & Bolivia

GeordiErnesto

30th April 2013, 11:37

Reformist/Social Democrat -- Primitivist -- Trotskyist

FionnagÃ¡in

30th April 2013, 15:34

Ecosocalist/Post-Trotskyist/anti-imperialist/anti-opressionist/Palestine solidarity activist/supporter of Latin American governments in Cuba, Venezuela & Bolivia
Jeezo, why not tell us what you had for breakfast, make the biography complete!

edit:

Is Marxist really needed? Left communism is marxist, so it's rather redundant
Possibly he means to distinguish himself from the more innovative ultra-left tendencies- communisation, etc.?

Anglo-Saxon Philistine

30th April 2013, 15:37

I guess they don't want to start a sectarian war between the Weetabix and the Nesquick people.

Calvin

6th May 2013, 02:55

Some of you have had some pretty crazy changes.

Liberal - Anarchist (I read Marx, Emma Goldman, Chomsky, etc. Really trying to find where I stood politically and learn in general). - Marxist-Leninist

Dear Leader

6th May 2013, 03:21

I guess I can add that i am no longer a Trotskyist. I've been reading much counter to him and Trotskyism, and I think it's time fore me to do reading all around before i define a tendency for myself.

Thelonious

6th May 2013, 04:50

Apolitical --> Inmate at East Jersey State Prison --> Communist

Althusser

11th May 2013, 07:25

Apolitical --> Inmate at East Jersey State Prison --> Communist

My favorite one.

MacchineBox

11th May 2013, 11:19

From birth:
Mom (D) & Dad (R) > Democrat (what does this say about my relationship to my parents?) > anarchy > Anachro-Socialism > Socialism > Marxism > Social-Democrat > Communism> Ron Paul (for practical reasons) > Pure Communism

FionnagÃ¡in

12th May 2013, 00:06

"Ron Paul" and "practical" seem like a contradiction in terms.

Tim Cornelis

12th May 2013, 00:09

From birth:
Mom (D) & Dad (R) > Democrat (what does this say about my relationship to my parents?)

You want to have sex with your mother.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2FOSQT6XvrF8YKIus3frH998MDbcKx TFktYoxumqNkNPHouW0

L1NKS

12th May 2013, 00:28

Keynesianist -> Marxist -> Libertarian Socialist

evermilion

12th May 2013, 00:37

As a child, I rejected the concept of God and would tend to lean left in terms of what I felt were the responsibilities of the government for whatever reason. I grew up around Protestant reactionaries, so my social views became staunchly right-wing while my feelings about state intervention in the economy still leaned left. It was a natural progression from there to Strasserism in my late adolescence, with elements of paganism. When my social views turned left in early adulthood, I found my way to technocracy, from there to mainstream socialism and social democracy, from there to orthodox Marxism, from there to Marxism-Leninism.

Right now I'm considering Ceaușescism, but leaning toward Neo-Gramscian Situational Engelsism-Kautskyism.

greengiant

12th May 2013, 01:17

first political thought i can remember was at 9 when i started watching the news
>moderate>mainstream liberal>thinking more>far left>reading a lot>anarcho-whatever

evermilion

12th May 2013, 01:29

What is "pure communism" and how does one get there from Ron Paul?

Tim Cornelis

12th May 2013, 01:40

evermilion

12th May 2013, 01:42

"Ceaușescism" + a weak for Juche.... We're not going to be friends.

I figured Ceaușescism would read as a joke in its proximity to Neo-Gramscian Situational Engelsism-Kautskyism.

Ravachol

12th May 2013, 01:58

I figured Ceaușescism would read as a joke in its proximity to Neo-Gramscian Situational Engelsism-Kautskyism.

In all fairness, there's some types on this forum that make your post seem very plausible (poe's law, etc.)

Brandon's Impotent Rage

12th May 2013, 07:06

apolitical--->liberal--->CPUSA--->Paulista--->Agorist--->Democratic Socialist--->Anarcho-Syndacalist--->Just a socialist (too many goddamn tendencies).

Sir Comradical

12th May 2013, 11:41

Tendency: Age
Social Democrat: 10 - 16
Anarchist: 16-18
Cliffite Trot: 18-19
Ortho Trot: 19-22
Marxist-Leninist: 22-present

MacchineBox

12th May 2013, 17:46

"Ron Paul" and "practical" seem like a contradiction in terms.

During the election (cause we all know those actually matter) Ron Paul was the only one making any sense. Sure, he's pretty far from communist, but I currently do reside in the U.S.A. & the original system that was in place (from way back when) had some ok ideas that wouldn't be so bad if we actually implemented correctly.

MacchineBox

12th May 2013, 17:53

What is "pure communism" and how does one get there from Ron Paul?

It's a cut & paste definition, but it gives a quick, well-stated concept of the idea:
"Pure communism, also known as stateless communism, or full communism, is the post-capitalist stage of society which Karl Marx predicted would inevitably result from the development of the productive forces. Pure communism is closely related and connected to world communism.
Strictly speaking, pure communism is a stage of social development where material and productive forces are advanced to a degree where actual freedom (freedom from necessity, and thus from wage labor and alienation from work) for every person is possible.The state apparatus becomes redundant because classes cease to exist."

As far as "getting there" from Ron Paul, I suppose it's possible, but in all reality, my support for Ron Paul was probably a step backwards from my true political leaning - I like to think of my support for Ron Paul as a temporary detour. I was communist before Ron Paul and I still am communist after.

Lord Hargreaves

12th May 2013, 19:02

My political journey has been hugely varied:

Very religious neoconservative (16,17 years old) >> 'wet' Tory (18) >> libertarian (18) >> liberal social-democrat (19) >> a sort-of Marxist (19-21) >> back to being a social-democrat for a bit; interested in the history of the left within the Labour Party (21) >> back to Marxist; now a Trotskyist (21-26) >> currently interested in anarchism and green thought, but still a Marxist. (26)

But the journey has been a fairly straight line from Right to Left. Looking at this, I'm probably going to go further and further left wing with age.

Crixus

13th May 2013, 04:27

You want to have sex with your mother.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2FOSQT6XvrF8YKIus3frH998MDbcKx TFktYoxumqNkNPHouW0

Freud was just projecting.

Brandon's Impotent Rage

13th May 2013, 04:47

During the election (cause we all know those actually matter) Ron Paul was the only one making any sense. Sure, he's pretty far from communist, but I currently do reside in the U.S.A. & the original system that was in place (from way back when) had some ok ideas that wouldn't be so bad if we actually implemented correctly.

As a former Paulista myself, I have to be in agreement with MB here.

You must understand, we Americans do NOT have a viable left-wing political party that we can vote for. Our country is shackled with the Two Party monopoly of power. We basically have a center-right party (Democrats), and a right-wing party (Republicans). The Democrats, when they are the opposition, are notorious wimps when it comes to the various progressive causes that they (occasionally) get behind.

What's even worse, is that all of the (Progressive) liberal-to-leftist parties in the U.S. are hopelessly outgunned by the corporate backers of the two major ones. Hell, the last (actual) socialist to hold public office in the U.S. was Frank Zeedlier, who was the mayor of Milwaukee, Wisconsin from 1948 to 1960.

So why was I and others drawn to Paul? Because Paul was the one guy in the entire presidential race who was:

1. Furiously against the Wars (showing more nads than the Democrats and completely giving the finger to the neo-con dominated Republicans)

2. Adamantly opposed to the War on Drugs (Democrats in the U.S. can be notorious busy-bodies, sometimes even worse than the Republicans believe it or not).

It was these two issues that attracted people of all political stripes (including hardcore leftists) to Paul and his movement. The fact that his paleo-libertarian beliefs made him extremely hostile to reproductive freedom and sharing questionable-at-best views on race was something many of us didn't realize until later.

.....Goddamn but how I envy you Europeans and your Leftist coalitions. :crying:

MacchineBox

13th May 2013, 05:52

So why was I and others drawn to Paul? Because Paul was the one guy in the entire presidential race who was:

1. Furiously against the Wars (showing more nads than the Democrats and completely giving the finger to the neo-con dominated Republicans)

2. Adamantly opposed to the War on Drugs (Democrats in the U.S. can be notorious busy-bodies, sometimes even worse than the Republicans believe it or not).

Don't forget point 3 & 4.

3. No taxes. His literature suggests the nation ran fine before the income tax was implemented and should be able to function again without the constitutionally illegal amendment.

4. End the Fed. This shouldn't need explaining.

Marxaveli

13th May 2013, 22:05

Apolitical -> Liberal/Democrat -> Social Democrat -> unfettered, unapologetic Marxist.

The social democrat stage was very brief, and as I progressed through the first year of my college education I became disillusioned with capitalism and began to move further and further to the left until reality finally kicked in and I became a full-blown communist.

Mather

14th May 2013, 04:17

'Official' communist -> trotskyist -> unaligned communist -> anarchist-communist

I first began to see myself as a communist in my mid teens however my understanding of communism and what defines it has changed a lot since then.

I was 16 when I joined the CPB (http://communist-party.org.uk/) through their youth wing the, YCL (http://www.ycl.org.uk/). I was with them for a year before leaving. My reasons being, their support for the Labour Party; their reformist and social democratic politics; their support for China and it's 'communist' regime; they were a very inactive party and trying to get more involved or meeting up with other party members was near impossible. Their view on the failure of the Soviet Union and the 'fall of communism' was weak and lacked any critical analysis. Given the obvious failure of the Soviet model, it seemed to me that they were burying their heads in the sand as to what went wrong.

About a year later I joined the SWP (http://swp.org.uk/) and was a member for nearly two years. For a while after leaving them I continued to support a lot of Trotsky's ideas but I also started looking at other ideas and traditions as well. I did this more out of curiosity and I wanted to have some time to develop my knowledge and find out were my own politics stood before rushing to join another party or group.

As the years past I challenged a lot of my own assumptions and changed my views on leninism, the need for parties and vanguards, the state, transitional/socialist phases between capitalism and communism and national liberation. My interest in anarchism and libertarian (non-leninist) versions of communism and marxism started to grow.

Now I'm an anarchist-communist and have been one for the last seven years. I am not with any organisation but my views and politics are broadly similar to AFED (http://www.afed.org.uk/). I have been to a few AFED meetings and I have been with them on a few demos but I am not a paid up member. I am also a historical materialist and agree with a lot of Marx's ideas though ironically, it was only after becoming an anarchist-communist that I began to fully understand what historical materialism meant and started applying it to my politics and analysis.

uk_communist

14th May 2013, 16:01

My political evolution has gone from:

Conservative > Liberal > Libertarian > Anarcho-Capitalist > Anarchist > Anarchist/Libertarian Socialist

I genuine do prefer this viewpoint. It's so agreeable to me. :grin:

Marxaveli

14th May 2013, 16:06

^^That's quite a 180 there, lol. Not to mention you seem to have been almost everything on the political spectrum, crazy shit.

14th May 2013, 18:54

Like building a million one-person concrete bunkers to defend against invasion :rolleyes:

So Jolly, what's your political evolution? Just to remain on topic you know.

Jolly Red Giant

14th May 2013, 20:35

So Jolly, what's your political evolution? Just to remain on topic you know.
Come from a background of a Labour father and a right-wing conservative mother (she died while I was young so didn't have much influence).

Skirted with republicanism - then the Hoxhaists (because of the republicanism) for a few months - then looked into a couple of Trotskyist groups before joining the CWI in 1982.

TheIrrationalist

14th May 2013, 20:51

Social democrat > libertarian > liberal > anarchist > Trotskyist > anarchist/Stirner!!! > communist (Marxist?)

Workers-Control-Over-Prod

14th May 2013, 21:53

I've always been unpolitical and never saw a reason to support any strange ideology. I've always been a visciously inquisitive and curious person. Thankfully my parents always tried to give me scientific reasons and debate with me as a kid, instead of saying 'that's just how it is'. I think this made a substantially independent and critical thinking person.

Then, during the torturous time of High School, I was sitting in History class and this week's subject was the First World War. Next came 'the Russian Revolution', and the teacher projected on the wall a huge picture of Lenin standing on a podium, talking to the starving and war beaten masses. I immediately admired this person. After Class I asked our teacher whether we would read the Communist Manifesto, but he said we dont have enough time.
A few months later I bought the Manifesto, read it and didn't agree with it really. However, I always identified morally with Communists who were obviously very noble persons with solid values.
Then the global capitalit crisis came and I heard in the news that Karl Marx's Das Kapital was being sold out everywhere. So I bought it, read the first chapter, called myself a Marxist. Two years later I finished reading it and called myself a Communist, fully identifying with the philosophy and worldview.

So I'd say:
Apolitical --> Marxian --> Communist --> Orthodox Marxist

John Lennin

14th May 2013, 22:28

Absolute Monarchist --> Democratic Socialist --> Trotskyist --> Council Communist

I think I may have to explain the monarchist-thing:
I always thought of a monarch as being servant of the state (= the people). Following Voltaire: "With great power comes great responsibility".

Sentinel

14th May 2013, 22:43

Topic split - please continue discussing Tito, Ceausescu, Kim & Hoxha in this new thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/tito-ceausescu-kim-t180698/index.html?t=180698) in the History forum.

Sudsy

14th May 2013, 23:16

Liberal--Social Democrat--Marxist--Trotskyist--Maoist (Trotskyism abandoned)

Nikolay

15th May 2013, 01:21

I've done 360s and 180s way too many times. Lets just say I've been almost every tendency you can think of (except fascism and anarcho-capitialism). I hope one day I can stick with a tendency. :P

Brandon's Impotent Rage

15th May 2013, 01:36

I've done 360s and 180s way too many times. Lets just say I've been almost every tendency you can think of (except fascism and anarcho-capitialism). I hope one day I can stick with a tendency. :P

Just do what I do, comrade: Say 'fuck the tendencies' and just stick with Socialist.

"I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views." -Abraham Lincoln

evermilion

15th May 2013, 01:39

Say 'fuck the tendencies' and just stick with Socialist.

I may lean "anti-revisionist" or whatever I call myself (Jucheist, Engelsist, Gramscist, Neo-Szekelyist, whatthefuckeverist, etc.), but this is some of the best advice on RevLeft.

La GuaneÃ±a

15th May 2013, 02:02

Centre-right because of my family >> "anarchist"(didn't study) >> anarchist >> council communist >> rosa luxemburg enters my life s2 >> ICC leftie >> lenin enters my life >> M-L close to the line of the PCV and KKE

tehAdmrl

15th May 2013, 02:36

Apolitical --> Democrat --> American Liberal --> Social Democrat --> Socialist --> Luxemburgism (with a hint of Trotskyism).

Revoltorb

15th May 2013, 03:43

Isolationist -> Elective monarchist (a la Roman dictators) -> between standard American liberal and Social Democrat-> (non anarchist) syndicalist -> started reading some Marxists so -> generic Marxist / leaning towards left com -> went to orthodox Marxism -> holy fuck Situationism blows my mind -> drifting leftward from centrist Marxism daily

Fourth Internationalist

15th May 2013, 04:02

Apolitical (too young) ---> Liberal ---> Marxist-Leninist (non-Stalinist) ---> Marxist ---> Luxemburgist Marxist ---> Anarchist ---> Socialist (no particular tendency, sympathetic to all)

Flying Purple People Eater

15th May 2013, 08:15

I have to say - some of the people here have some pretty odd political evolutions.

SmirkerOfTheWorld

20th May 2013, 21:43

So far: Apolitical (with an inherited suspicion of the toffs) -> Democratic socialist -> Anarcho-Syndicalist...

Still a while left though...:rolleyes:

SmirkerOfTheWorld

20th May 2013, 21:45

You never really hear anyone refer to themselves as Engelsist, do you? And what with all the possibilities it entails for new sectarian joshing...

RedJack94

20th May 2013, 22:06

Apolitical ---> liberal ---> democratic socialist ---> socialist ---> marxist

Brandon's Impotent Rage

20th May 2013, 22:45

You never really hear anyone refer to themselves as Engelsist, do you? And what with all the possibilities it entails for new sectarian joshing...

I think Engels always sort of saw himself as a conduit for Marx's ideas.....so an Engelist would still be a Marxist, just in a round-about way.

I rather like Engels, though. His son-in-law once described him as "the great beheader of champagne bottles"

There was a man who knew how to have fun.:grin:

Bronco

20th May 2013, 23:26

Right libertarian > Left libertarian (mutualist/market socialist) > anarchist

Zukunftsmusik

20th May 2013, 23:44

don't know how to describe my evolution in words. I don't think I've ever been anything that can be described with a label. But I've developed, I know that. Have had sympathies for anarchism, now I have and have had for a while more sympathies with Left communism, but I'm not completely sure about my views. I develop constantly (who doesn't?)

EDIT: I do consider myself a marxist though.

BAMslam15

20th May 2013, 23:59

Apolitical --> Centrist --> Democrat --> more liberal than Democrat --> Democratic Socialist

Akshay!

21st May 2013, 00:09

Actually I'm no longer an anarchist so I should probably update this

Nothing (Apolitical) -> Capitalist -> Ayn Rand "Libertarian" -> Liberal -> Chomskyist -> Anarchist -> Communist -> Anarcho-Communist -> A mixture of Anarchist, Communist, and Marxist -> Some kind of a Communist, Marxist, Leninist, etc.. (haven't decided which exactly)

Craig_J

21st May 2013, 00:37

I've gone from:

Apolitical (till 15) > UKIP (UK Indepndance party 15-17) . Labour party (briefly at 17) to Anarcho-collectivist (17 till now at 19 years old).

It's quite strange to think once I was a UKIP supporter. I blame the right-wing media which is constantly poluting people's minds into believing that immigration is a problem and that we should be patriotic. At the age of 17 I think my mind had develop enough to move away from that crap. I was a member of the Labour Party for a short while but my hippie friends at college got me really interested in anarcho-collectivism. I wasn't brought by their ideas, although I appreicated them, but in my own time I started to realise that actually a lot of wht they say makes sense and that it can work, bourgeosie society just wants us to think the opposite. I left the labour party, and sent them a letter telling them that I think they're becoming ridiculously towards the right and that I no longer agree with them on any issue, and now I'm a leftist.

17 was such a strange year drifting from UKIP all the way to anarcho-collectivism but I honestly think my political evoloution is complete now, and I'll never look back.

Nikolay

21st May 2013, 00:44

Just do what I do, comrade: Say 'fuck the tendencies' and just stick with Socialist.

"I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views." -Abraham Lincoln

Whenever one of my friends asks where I stand politically, I say Socialist. I might as well stick with being a Socialist instead of trying to pinpoint what tendency I really am. Though I generally agree with Marxism in most cases.

MarxArchist

21st May 2013, 01:31

I was born at the Bohemian Grove under the watchful eye of Moloch in a communist ceremony which was basically a christening anointing me as the foreseen chosen one to lead the NWO into wold government then population reduction and communist rule where paleoconservatives and Christians are our slave labor force. This is the culmination of generations of eugenics. It's all linked to Hitler.

F2E_HP97Rzc

WelcomeToTheParty

21st May 2013, 02:15

"Left" > Social Democrat > Marxist

It wasn't that long ago that I believed communism was "good in theory, but will never work in real life" without really understanding what it was all about. Then I actually read Capital.

Let's Get Free

21st May 2013, 03:08

Apolitical>Social Democrat>Trotskyist>Anarchist>Apolitical.

Akshay!

21st May 2013, 03:40

Apolitical>Social Democrat>Trotskyist>Anarchist>Apolitical.

So you're apolitical? Is that even allowed on revleft?

MarxSchmarx

21st May 2013, 06:33

So you're apolitical? Is that even allowed on revleft?

The phrase "apolitical" means a lot of different things to different people. For a lot (majority?) of apolitical it signifies disgust and disillusionment with any of the existing political orgs of any consequence. For others, it really means someone doesnt care or is ignorant about politics. Finally for many I think we were pretty apolitical until around age 11, we kind of knew there were things like kings and presidents and passports and all but they were abstract "grown-up things" like electricity bills and books without pictures. For some, this stage of blissful ignorance lasted much longer than others.

d3crypt

21st May 2013, 07:06

Apolitical--> Generic "Obama/ Democratic Liberal"--> Green Party Liberal--> Social Democrat --> Democratic Socialist --> Non Communist Revolutionary Socialist --> Just a week or so ago i read the Communist Manifesto and decided i am a Marxist. This was when i joined RevLeft

SmirkerOfTheWorld

21st May 2013, 21:48

Isn't it a bit daft for people to say they started as "apolitical" - it's kind of a given isn't it, unless you were born at a SWP branch meeting...

Martin Blank

22nd May 2013, 09:48

"Moderate Republican" (from parents, pre-1988) -> Socialist with Trotskyist sympathies (1988-1991) -> "Official Communist" (1991-1993) -> Trotskyist (1993-2001) -> Post-/Ex-Trotskyist (2002-2004) -> Proletarian Communist with DeLeonist, Hekmatist and Myasnikovist sympathies (2004-present)

cyu

24th May 2013, 05:44

it's kind of a given isn't it, unless you were born at a SWP branch meeting...

Mom and Dad threw the most awesome general assemblies ;)

Skyhilist

24th May 2013, 05:50

Isn't it a bit daft for people to say they started as "apolitical" - it's kind of a given isn't it, unless you were born at a SWP branch meeting...

Haha good point. My idea for at the beginning though would be like, when you first became at least semi-conscious of the political atmosphere all around... Or something like that, I don't even know

Let's Get Free

25th May 2013, 00:39

So you're apolitical? Is that even allowed on revleft?

Why not?

Ismail

25th May 2013, 03:43

Why not?I guess he's confusing it with not actually holding leftist opinions.

Akshay!

25th May 2013, 04:17

Doesn't apolitical mean
"the apathy and/or the antipathy towards all political affiliations"
??:confused:

Bardo

25th May 2013, 06:24

Non-political (from birth to about 14) -> Liberal/"Progressive" (14-18) -> Anarchist (18-21) -> Left Communist (21-23) -> Marxist-Leninist (23-25/present)

Ages are rough estimates.

FionnagÃ¡in

26th May 2013, 02:09

How do you go form leftcom to tankie?

Bardo

26th May 2013, 04:40

Not a tankie per se.

I became more interested in the actual nuts and bolts of revolutionary organization and drifted more towards leninism after joining a ML party.

ShitBricks

26th May 2013, 05:36

In high school, I was into the whole Ron Paul Revolution.

But I always had sympathy towards communism and socialism.

In college I became economically literate. I read into a wide variety of economic schools, Keynesianism, Monetarism, Austrianism, Marxism, etc. I became a Keynesian Social Democrat, highly praising European social programmes. And being disgusted by the widespread backwards conservatism of the USA.

But now I realize that Greed and Corporatism is an unnecessary evil, and it needs to be abolished. The socialist revolution is where my heart lies. Regardless of economic inpracticality.

Djoko

26th May 2013, 10:36

My evolution is dialectical

lemushyman

26th May 2013, 11:58

Apolitical -> Fascist -> Social-Democrat -> Leninist

Comrade #138672

26th May 2013, 13:00

How do you go from Fascist to Social-Democrat?

Unless "Left Fascism" is a real thing...

FionnagÃ¡in

26th May 2013, 20:03

Not a tankie per se.

I became more interested in the actual nuts and bolts of revolutionary organization and drifted more towards leninism after joining a ML party.
What kind of leftcom joins an ML party to begin with? :confused:

ed miliband

26th May 2013, 20:08

Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist

26th May 2013, 20:49

not being a dickhead bardo, but were you actually a leftcom or did u read the wikipedia page on left communism and decide to call yourself one, or were u actually down with the icc or ict or whatever?

You know guise, it isn't impossible for a person to become a left-comm and then an ML, it's not like Left Communism represents the pinicial of the evolution of human thought.

Devrim

26th May 2013, 20:57

You know guise, it isn't impossible for a person to become a left-comm and then an ML, it's not like Left Communism represents the pinicial of the evolution of human thought.

Yes, but I wouldn't imagine that it happens very often. Left communists think that Marxist-Leninists are anti-working class, so it is quite a big jump to make. I personally don't know anybody who has made it though I do know quite a few who have jumped the other way.

I think it is much more likely that as Ed pointed out the poster wasn't actually a left communist in the first place, but instead someone who was somewhat interested in left communist ideas.

Devrim

Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist

26th May 2013, 21:12

Yes, but I wouldn't imagine that it happens very often. Left communists think that Marxist-Leninists are anti-working class, so it is quite a big jump to make. I personally don't know anybody who has made it though I do know quite a few who have jumped the other way.

I think it is much more likely that as Ed pointed out the poster wasn't actually a left communist in the first place, but instead someone who was somewhat interested in left communist ideas.

Devrim

Hmm, fair enough. Sometimes I wonder why people on here switch from MLM to other tendencies and I admit that for at least 1/2 of the people who flip flop I feel like they never bothered to study the material in the first place. So I can see where you come from there. Still, I think the switch is a bit easier for MLM folk because we don't view most tendencies as anti-working class, we just don't think they are applying Marxism correctly. Although there are a few tendencies we view as revisionists, such as the obvious ones that existed in the early social democratic movement, Kruschevites, Mao Zedong Thought, Marcyites. And also there are a few we view as bourgeois tendencies, that is they exist to reinforce bourgeois political hegemony and therefore serve a similar purpose as the church in a bourgeois state, basically imposssiblists, electoral ML's, or really anything that participates in bourgeois elections. Everything else is generally thought as just a bit off here and there. Which is why you see some MLM's becoming Anarchists, Ultra-Lefts, or something lame, but rarely revisionists.

Ele'ill

26th May 2013, 23:50

post-left

Lenin1986

27th May 2013, 21:48

non-political 0-14-> nationalist (extrem right-wing) 14-17 - > Irish Republican 18-20 - > Republican Socialist 20 to present. I would be mainly influenced by the works of Marx, Engels, Connolly, Lenin, Luxemburg, Che and Ta Power

Bardo

31st May 2013, 04:49

What kind of leftcom joins an ML party to begin with? :confused:

I shouldn't say "after I joined a ML party". I became more interested in Leninism so I started looking around for organizations, joined a party candidacy program in order to learn more and eventually decided to join the party.

not being a dickhead bardo, but were you actually a leftcom or did u read the wikipedia page on left communism and decide to call yourself one, or were u actually down with the icc or ict or whatever?

I wasn't a member of any leftcom organization. Nor was I a registered Democrat when I was a teen, nor was I a member of the IWW when I considered myself to be an anarchist.

The Leninist organization was my first affiliation. I have the badge and everything.

Dogs On Acid

6th June 2013, 16:03

Looking back, I can hardly believe I briefly supported the BNP, coincidentally (or not) during the time I was about to join the British Army.

I guess I went a little something like this:

Apolitical -> Liberal -> Nationalist -> Woke up, grew up, learned about the Left -> Libertarian Leftist -> Marxist leaning on Leninism

Thirsty Crow

6th June 2013, 16:11

Social democrat --> (brief flirt with anarchist syndicalism) --> left communist

It's as if I missed half a dozen phases, judging by the prevalence of all sorts of shifts at this site.

33_PERCENT_GOD

6th June 2013, 20:06

apolitical -> right-libertarian -> liberal (social democrat) -> anarchist -> communist

V.Vendetta

7th June 2013, 18:01

I started off apolitical of course. Around the time I was 10 i started paying attention to the upcoming election (2000). I hated Bush even from such a young age, so I began to consider myself a liberal. I stayed that way for a couple years.

Once I entered high school I became eminently aware of the prevalence of hierarchy in every day life. I had always hated authority but now I began to see its depth and scope. Starting from a hatred of institutional authority, I was driven to the ideas of Anarchism. By the age of 13 I was a self-proclaimed Anarchist. I read huge sections of the Anarchist FAQ and embraced anarchism completely.

A little later on, by age 16, I considered myself a Marxist, as I thought Marxism was a more realistic method of ensuring the success of any future revolution. However, the authoritarian tendencies in Marxism, and especially Leninism, drew me away from it and right back to Anarchism.

Here I am now, 22 years old, and I'm still an Anarchist. I think Anarchism has the best overall critique of modern society, recognizing social hierarchy itself as the root cause of oppression. To me Anarchism is a way of life, a philosophy, and a revolutionary practice. It is a complete orientation to life, a refusal to rule or be ruled, which places me into inevitable conflict with the state and capitalism. The Anarchist lives a life of love and war, passion and danger; a life of freedom and revolution.

I've always been an Anarchist at heart, and I will likely always be an Anarchist.

Sky Hedgehogian Maestro

13th June 2013, 19:13

Apolitical -> Right wing/Glenn Beck glomper -> False-right wing (only watches Glenn Beck to be excited about left wing) -> Center -> Independent Leftist/Socialist -> Democratic Transhumanist -> Transcommunist -> Wannabe Viyetist
You can ignore those last three if need-be, since they're kinda impossible at the present moment/very much inhuman to believe in.

Red Flag Waver

13th June 2013, 21:03

Green --> self-described "moderate" (actually conservative) --> liberal --> social democrat coupled with embarrassing atheist phase --> socialist.

Alain

14th June 2013, 21:41

ignorant(too young for politics)-> nationalist without strong views of the economy(the perils of being young and restless)-> state capitalist-> marxist-> social democrat with strong support for the french Socialist Party and some support for the american Democrat Party(this was me trying to be realistic)-> supporter of whatever you would call "new social movement" as outlined by Foucault and Bourdieu(freshman year in college, thinking I'm an intellectual because I know names like Bourdieu)-> democratic socialist

Akshay!

23rd June 2013, 17:10

Finally decided.

Nothing (Apolitical) -> Capitalist -> Ayn Rand "Libertarian" -> Liberal -> Chomskyist -> Anarchist -> A mixture of Anarchist, Communist, and Marxist -> Marxist-Leninist.

Drugged Out Communist

23rd June 2013, 18:07

Marxist -> Marxist -> Marxist -> Marxist

X5N

23rd June 2013, 20:39

I used to be a Paulite libertarian. Then, for reasons I can't remember, I shifted over to the left. It happened not long before I joined this site, actually.

JPSartre12

23rd June 2013, 21:17

social liberalism -> classical liberalism -> keynesian social democracy > market-socialism, democratic socialism > classical marxist > existential marxist / left-communist / libertarian socialist

Zoroaster

17th June 2014, 00:18

Apolitical --> Socially progressive, Fiscally Mercantilism --> Typical Democrat --> Liberal with Jacobin influences (anti-clericalism, natural right to property, egalitarianism, etc) -->Anarcho-Syndicalist --> Keynesian Social Democrat --> Democratic Socialist --> Left Communist --> Existentialist Marxist/Anarchist --> Autonomism/Communisation Theory.

Thirsty Crow

17th June 2014, 10:45

Ah here goes.

Apolitical (though: absolutely hating on nationalism and kinda anti-clerical let's say, borderline anti-theist) --> social democrat --> very brief flirt with anarcho-syndicalism --> left communism (with some autonomia/operaismo and communisation influence thrown in).

Left Voice

17th June 2014, 11:36

I've always been somewhat of a leftist, coming from a left-leaning upbringing. My father was in a punk band in the early 80s (and is still active in the scene), which is obviously heavily connected with left wing socialist/anarchist politics. My mother isn't quite so political, but came from a coal mining background that endured the wrath of Thatcher. From a young age, my mother used to tell me that only the trade unions look after the workers.

For most of my youth, I was simply old-Labour 'democratic socialist'. Strict Labour-voting household, though both my parents have become jaded in these post-Blair days. I went through a certain amount of 'political exploration' - I knew what I hated - censorship, authoritarianism, the social damage of capitalism, the overbearing capitalist state in general, but struggled to understand why. I went through various phases, ranging from social liberal to social democrat, realising that none of these provided the answer to society's ills. People are still starving and unemployed, the capitalist state still maintained the narrative for what is socially acceptable, what should be shunned and censored etc., discrimination such as homophobia, sexism, racism were still rife and failed to be convincingly challenged by the narrative proposed by the social democrats who still maintained capitalist social relations. And New Labour of course bent over backwards to convince people that they were indeed capitalists.

I then had a teacher in a Cultural Studies class who introduced Marxism. He introduced it more an a toolset for analysing media and most people didn't take it seriously, but it was a revelation for me. I may have been raised a socialist, but nether of my parents have a real grasp of the theoretical side of things - their whole position is based on experience. Suddenly, Marxism provided a basis for everything that I knew to be right, everything that I believed to be right but was unable to explain in a satisfactory manner.

From there, it was a natural progression to revolutionary socialism. I wouldn't say my views of positions have changed in the slightest, I simply now understand them with a firm basis that doesn't rely on existing capitalist terms of narrative.

Sinred

17th June 2014, 11:39

Racist sweden democrat (i was 14 atm)----> Conservative (14)----> socialist(15)----> Marxist Leninist(16)----> ML/pan-communist(27)

LuÃs Henrique

17th June 2014, 16:08

Apolitical -> vaguely socialist or communist, with substitutionist tendencies -> close to POLOP -> close to the left wing (non-pro-Albanian) of the PCdoB -> PT -> left wing of the PT.

Luís Henrique

Tim Cornelis

17th June 2014, 16:13

Tankie (not serious) > social-democrat/social-liberal > individualist anarchist > communist anarchist > Marxist (some left communist and luxemburgist positions and influences, some orthodox Marxist influences)

Creative Destruction

17th June 2014, 16:32

Conservative/neo-confederate > Libertarian > Minarchist/anarcho-capitalist > Anarchist, generally interested > Anarcho-communist > Left Marxist

That's probably a fair summation.

Repeater

17th June 2014, 17:26

Liberal-Conservative-Libertarian (very briefly)Green-Socialist. It wasn't until the financial crisis in 2008 that I fully grasped the moral bankruptcy of capitalism. Should have known sooner.

xnecron101x

18th June 2014, 22:19

Democrat (The American Party) --> Liberal --> Anarchist --> Anarcho-Communist --> Socialist --> Marxist --> Marxist Leninist (lightly) --> Libertarian Socialist --> Revolutionary Marxist

So ya, I've jumped around a good bit.

OGLemon

19th June 2014, 06:23

apolitical -> fascist scum -> liberal -> social democrat -> democratic socialist -> libertarian socialist -> anarcho-communism -> anarcho-syndicialism -> lemonism

RedAnarchist

19th June 2014, 08:43

My first political beliefs could probably be seen as socially liberal but centrist/centre-right and supportive of Labour (my family in general are staunchly Labour, although many are apolitical). I gradually moved left, especially in the first few years of this century, and when I joined the forum in 2003 I was probably a sort of social democrat. I considered myself a Trotskyist for some years and then an Anarchist-Communist.

Loony Le Fist

19th June 2014, 10:34

In high school I was a Democrat because for some strange reason I really liked Clinton (don't ask, I don't understand either :laugh:). After reading 1984 and Animal Farm, I began to consider myself a Trotskyist, even though I did not know what that meant. After further reading, I became extremely disillusioned with Trotsky and socialism/communism in general. I rejected the left almost entirely and became a libertarian, eventually becoming an anarcho-capitalist.

After the Iraq War began my views began to change. However I still clung to my libertarian/ancap beliefs, and became an MRA/MGTOW/PUA. I just thought it was crony capitalism that was the problem. Little did I realize that all capitalism is crony.

Over time, I began to reject the capitalist, imperialist, propaganda engine. Watching the effectiveness of the war propaganda scared the fuck out of me. How easy it is to manipulate minds! When I heard on the news that people setting oil rigs on fire were going to be treated as war criminals, that was about the clearest message that something was very wrong with the world. I began to search for answers.

Eventually I came across Noam Chomsky. He was able to condense my abstract feeling that something isn't right with the world into concrete problems. Listening him talk about the Propaganda Model in Manufacturing Consent it all began to make sense. The real problems in this world have little to do with the problems talked about on TV or in the mainstream media. Their purpose is a foil or a distraction. Chomsky's ideas provide an explanation and a mechanism for how and why we observe the things we do in the media. He proposes an alternative purpose for the media that is much different than what you are told in school.

Eventually I began to reject my previous views, including my MRA/MGTOW/PUA ones. I still maintained my sense of libertarianism, but I learned that it was compatible with socialism. In fact, I finally realized that right-libertarianism isn't really libertarianism at all. I began to understand my previous internalized hatred of women and misunderstanding of feminism and how it was colouring my views. So here I am. :grin:

Dr Doom

19th June 2014, 17:48

irish republicanism, first as a member of Sinn Fein youth and then was close to the Irish republican Socialist party for a short time > Anarchism (platformist), was close to a group in belfast but soon realised their politics were pretty weak and too close to trotskyism for my liking > now i'm just a communist influenced by left communism and some communisation stuff.

SonofRage

19th June 2014, 18:29

Democrat->Green ->Democratic Socialists of America ->Socialist Party USA ->ISO ->Socialist Party USA ->IWW (as a sort of Marxist-DeLeonist) ->Direct Action Tendency ->Bring the Ruckus

Some of these overlapped, since I was a DSA member and Green Party member at the same time, SPUSA,DAT and IWW at the same time, and IWW and BtR at the same time.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

TheDoctor1996

19th June 2014, 18:45

Moderate - State Socialist - Social Democrat - Right Libertarian - Left Libertarian - Anarchist - Anarcho-Communist.

TheSocialistMetalhead

19th June 2014, 20:28

Social democrat -> Utopian socialist -> Marxist-leninist/Soviet Union, China, Cuba,...apologist-> Left communist (very briefly and not knowing about their position on unions and the like) -> Trotskyist

Curious

21st June 2014, 03:40

Apolitical -> pseudo-Fascist -> "Civic Fascist" (i.e, I did not particularly care about ethnicity or religion, it was more of an "all hail the state", sort of thing) -> Keynsian Liberal -> Social Democrat -> Democratic Socialist -> Marxist-Leninist -> Trotskyist -> DeLeonist -> Anarcho-Collectivist -> Mutualist -> Uncertain

I was a fascist, but I use the term loosely. I was, and still am, very modernist. I believed in class cooperation. I felt that what was best for the state was ultimately best for everyone, and I felt that the military was an incredibly important thing.

My moderate/ Keynsian Liberal stage lasted for about two years. I was fully opposed to even the colour red at that point. "Socialists are just lazy" was something I said now and again.

My social democracy was more of a go-to label because I wasn't sure what to call myself. The democratic socialism came later when I realised that social democrats are only trying to soften capitalism, not extinguish it.

The Marxist-Leninism came and went pretty quickly, I soon found Trotsky. I did some digging on the Dictatorship of the Proletariat as well as a few other things and decided it wasn't right for me.

I called myself a DeLeonist without knowing exactly what it truly was, it simply seemed like a good compromise between Marx and Bakunin :wub:. I'm still not sure what it is.

The Collectivism also went away pretty quickly, as I felt that Mutualism was better suited, though I could probably group these two into one section. Synthesist or Panarchist.

Throughout all of this, even the fascist stage I've always been an environmentalist, to some extent.

Црвена

21st June 2014, 14:37

Moderate (like my parents) --> social democrat (Old Labour-style) --> democratic socialist/reformist socialist --> libertarian Marxist --> anarcho-syndicalist

I've always had some sort of a political interest. I remember going to the polling station with my dad in May 2010 aged 8 and staring him down until he voted Labour, during my social democrat years.

Revolver

21st June 2014, 15:40

I was raised in a left leaning, Democratic household and started reading Marx, Chomsky, Kropotkin and Bakunin in my last two years of high school, which put me in a kind of libertarian socialist frame. My only connection to any radical movement at that time was the Green Party, which wasn't very radical at all of course. In college I was put off by a lot of what I saw from direct action and socialist groups, and I briefly flirted with more conservative tendencies then, between an unhealthy interest in evolutionary psychology and sociobiology and pursuing a minor in economics (oh the simplicity of those graphs!), but I emerged a social democrat who supported the Democratic Party and identified more with its left wing, but not yet back to a socialist framework. That began to unravel with the financial crisis, when I found myself returning to Marx and other radical political and economic theorists. And looking around, with the wars and the instability and the perpetual crisis regimes, I realized that Marx may not have been right about everything but he had a pretty good grasp of what the central problems were. And the failure of the social democracies in this period also pushed me to look at revolutionary solutions as the long term antidote, as opposed to reforms. I live in Michigan, which is basically ground zero of the class war, and I'm involved in activist campaigns against austerity. So today I try to blend theory and practice. I consider myself a socialist, with an eye to applying socialist analysis (including but not limited to Marx) to modern problems.

Delusional Kid

1st July 2014, 19:06

Conservative->Liberal->Reactionary monarchist->Social democrat->Democratic socialist

DOOM

1st July 2014, 22:21

apolitical-> SocDem -> Anarchist -> Marxist.

Because of my background I've always been wondering why things happen the way they do especially when it came to violence, poverty and war. Seeing the consequences of nationalism and ethnic cleansing made me somewhat hateful and apathetic towards politics. Instead I started having a great interest in history especially modern history ranging from WW I to the fall of real-socialist countries.
Seeing today's situation in Bosnia and being keen on Titoism I somewhat turned into a "socialist democrat". I despised communism as "idealist" and thought of it very bad until I started to educate myself on this topic. I gradually turned into an anarchist as I was still somewhat antipathic towards Marxism because of the horrible failure the soviet union was.
After reading Bakunin and other anarchist thinkers I was kind of disappointed by their naive idealism. Criticizing Marx without giving a suitable answer legitimized by proper answers with a satisfying theoretical base made me doubt about anarchism.
Simultaneously I've broadened my knowledge on Marxism making me like Marxism more and more.
So yeah, here I am. At the moment I'm learning more about critical theory and value criticism so I guess I'll stick with Marxism. :).

Connolly1916

2nd July 2014, 12:00

Apolitical -> 'Get the Brits out!' -> (Provisional) Sinn Féin -> 'Dissident' Republican -> Tired of it all -> Socialist Republican.

Ele'ill

2nd July 2014, 20:34

lately i'm interested in communisation theory

COЯЯUPT

2nd July 2014, 20:58

Right-leaning Nationalist Reactionary > Woke up and asked myself, "What the fuck am I doing?" > Moved left > Moved further left > flirted with anarcho-communism > non-specific communism

PhoenixAsh

2nd July 2014, 21:17

Leninist -> Marxist-Leninist -> Anarchist -> came to revleft -> Revolutionary Cannibal

Ele'ill

2nd July 2014, 21:19

forum moderators can see user edits can't they

PhoenixAsh

2nd July 2014, 21:23

I am not sure. I can remember we were able to throuhg the mod tools. But I am not sure. Right now I can't.

Vladimir Innit Lenin

3rd July 2014, 19:36

I went through a lot of 'isms' and then realised that I was better off forming my own ideas, as an individual, and not attaching them strictly to any 'ism'. I admire many revolutionaries, groups and their ideas, but i'm not in hoc to their old ideologies and personal preferences.

As a teacher, I am interested spending less time on what is essentially theoretical masturbation, and more time attempting to put my own ideas into practice by 'teaching for social justice'; first by making sure that within my own classroom we strive towards a diverse study of history that leads to more socially just outcomes, and then also by working with the many other teachers in my city who are interested in moving education towards more socially just outcomes.

You can go through as many 'isms' as you want over the internet but it won't change a fucking thing, so i've learned.

Trap Queen Voxxy

3rd July 2014, 19:38

Apolitical --> Anarchist --> Anarchist --> Anarchist --> Anarchist --> Anarchist --> Anarchist --> Cannibalist-Maoist

Rugged Collectivist

3rd July 2014, 21:17

Anti-American --> Conservative --> liberal --> Weird authoritarian Monarcho-Mutualist --> liberal again for a brief period --> Communist

Bala Perdida

3rd July 2014, 21:38

Liberal > weird Anti-American liberal > awkward pan-Latin American third worldist > petty socialist > chavista communist > anarchist.

LeftWingLiterature

4th July 2014, 21:01

nothing--->Republican drone(thank my parents)---->liberal ----> vanilla socialism ----> marxist -----> social anarchist (anarcho syndicalism and anarcho communism) ----> swinging more towards marxist theory currently

fear of a red planet

5th July 2014, 16:56

Labour/Social Democrat - Left Reformist - Anarcho/Left Reformist - member of a Trotskyist organisation (and some sort of rev socialist) - Anarcho-Communist - Platformist/Anarcho-Communist - realised that all along I had been an Alinskyin/Platformist/Networkist/Entryist

USAneedsCommunism

6th July 2014, 11:10

yeah it's pretty easy to become nihilist (the belief in nothing, pessimism, negative etc), because in many countries, the left is too weak or non-existant, and the only left available for the poor people is the socialdemocrat left, and the traditional political liberal social-democrat parties like The Democratic Party of USA and the Revolutionary Democratic Party of Mexico (PRD), so at the end of the day many ultra-leftists, authentic leftists who are in favor of workers governments, workers-control and real socialism which is workers rising to government power, become nihilistic, and another reason of nihilism in many smart radical leftists is how many people of the world hate politics. Jose Ingenieros, the Argentinian sociologist in his book "The Mediocre Man" said that the worst individuals of society are the politically apathetic people, the people who claim that politics is not necessary, and that they can get out of poverty and rise in quality of life without supporting any political party. And that's why it is very easy for well informed radical leftists who are desperate to see communist revolutions in the whole world, to become nihilistic and pessimist about the possibility of workers socialist states in the near future in USA and in other nations as well

nothing -> anarchist -> some sort of communist with fetish for nat lib armed fuckers -> anarchist -> bitter, cynical nihilist