Why do you support isreal?

[Misodoctakleidist]

It seems that the actions of iseal contradict the reasons zionists support them. Could anyone who is a zionist or just pro-isreal please tell me why you support isreal?

[Urban Rubble]

I am pro Israel in the sense that I wish for them to have a peaceful homeland and that I recognize they have been among the most oppressed groups of people in History.

I am anti Israel in the sense that I disagree with their solutions to the Palestine problem and their alliance with the U.S.

I think you're going to have to expand on your question of "Why support Israel". I think they should be "supported" because there are still many out there who wish to destroy them, however, I don't think they should be supported in their oppression of Palestine.

[AmericanZionist2004]

I support Israel because it is the Jewish homeland, which is something the Jews have been longing for and fighting for for hundreds of years. As various widespread persecution against the Jews in Nazi Germany, as well as both pre-Soviet and Soviet Russia demonstrated, scattered Jews with no source of defense were relatively powerless. We have had many persecutors throughout history and needed a base of defense as well as a refuge for all Jews worldwide. I feel that the situation in the Mideast now is not different from the wars and surprise attacks the Arab nations waged on us from 1948 until 1981, when Sadat and Begin signed a peace treaty. The Arabs in Israel were offered all of the land back. Arafat walked away without a counterproposal. I may not agree with absolutely every Israeli policy, but when it comes to the right for the Jewish state to defend itself or even exist as a nation, Israel certainly has my active support.

[commie kg]

I am anti-Israel in the sense that they are merely an extension of the US in the middle east, and for the way that they choose to deal with their conflict with the Palestinians.

[Bolshevika]

I am anti-Israel because I desire to see it nuked.

Palestinians were never offered all of their land back. Yes, at times they were offered "97%" of their land back, but the sneaky Israelis being the deceitful animals they are left out the reason the Palestinians are fighting in the first place! Jerusalem!

[Misodoctakleidist]

Urban Rubble and AmericanZionist, you both say the jew nees a homeland, but why? There are many countries jews can live in withoug facing persecution, it just seems to me like self-segregation which is only going to make things worse in terms of anti-semitism. If the jews need a 'homeland' then surely you agree that the palestinians also do.

[AmericanZionist2004]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 02:35 AM
I am anti-Israel because I desire to see it nuked.

Palestinians were never offered all of their land back. Yes, at times they were offered "97%" of their land back, but the sneaky Israelis being the deceitful animals they are left out the reason the Palestinians are fighting in the first place! Jerusalem!
See it nuked. Yeah. Ever so "peaceful", aren't you?

[Bolshevika]

I was exagerating a little bit, there are many innocent civilians in Israel that oppose what the government is doing. I think a car bomb in front of the American-Israel embassy is more logical.

[Urban Rubble]

Urban Rubble and AmericanZionist, you both say the jew nees a homeland, but why? There are many countries jews can live in withoug facing persecution, it just seems to me like self-segregation which is only going to make things worse in terms of anti-semitism. If the jews need a 'homeland' then surely you agree that the palestinians also do.

I most definately think Palestinians should have a homeland. I think if there is a significant group of people who have a real claim to the land, they should have a homeland. The same goes for Chechnyans and Kurds. If I thought that Palestine and Israel could be one state I would support that, but it clearly cannot be.

There are many countries Palestinians could live in without persecution, should they also not have a homeland ?


I was exagerating a little bit, there are many innocent civilians in Israel that oppose what the government is doing.

Even if they don't, should they also be killed ? You have to understand, they are in the same position as Americans, they are subjected to huge amounts of propaganda, it is incredibly hard to see though it.

[El Brujo]

I am anti-Israel because the Zionists are imperialist parasites that are robbing a native population of their homeland. I don't want to hear any rhetorical bullshit about the Jews being an "oppressed people" that deserve a homeland. Yes, they have faced persecution in the past, like virtually every ethnic/religious group but they are no more oppressed today than any other group, even other white people. The Jews in Israel take up the typical characteristics of white colonialists in other parts of the third world, particularly South Africa (which was its staunch ally during apartheid).

[Urban Rubble]

I don't want to hear any rhetorical bullshit about the Jews being an "oppressed people" that deserve a homeland

Then why spout "rhetorical bullshit" about the Palestinians being oppressed and deserving a homeland ? Why do they deserve one but not the Jews ?

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 7 2004, 12:45 PM

I don't want to hear any rhetorical bullshit about the Jews being an "oppressed people" that deserve a homeland

Then why spout "rhetorical bullshit" about the Palestinians being oppressed and deserving a homeland ? Why do they deserve one but not the Jews ?
Because the Palestinians ARE an oppressed people, as as their other third world compatriots, whose homeland was forcefully taken from them. They rightfully owned the land they lived in in 1948 and the British empire enforced mass immigration there with the excuse that "nobody inhabited the land" (the same excuse white colonialists in Africa used when they invaded the southern horn, and likewise, they invaded and took control over more land). It would have not been a problem if it had been negotiated with the Palestinians for them to immigrate there and live peacefully in their land, nevertheless it was not a necessary event as institutionalized "anti-semitism" died when the nazis were defeated.

[AmericanZionist2004]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 7 2004, 04:24 AM
I am anti-Israel because the Zionists are imperialist parasites that are robbing a native population of their homeland. I don't want to hear any rhetorical bullshit about the Jews being an "oppressed people" that deserve a homeland. Yes, they have faced persecution in the past, like virtually every ethnic/religious group but they are no more oppressed today than any other group, even other white people. The Jews in Israel take up the typical characteristics of white colonialists in other parts of the third world, particularly South Africa (which was its staunch ally during apartheid).
That's nice. You're anti-Zionist. You know who said anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are the same thing? Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by AmericanZionist2004+Jan 7 2004, 01:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AmericanZionist2004 @ Jan 7 2004, 01:32 PM)
El [email protected] 7 2004, 04:24 AM
I am anti-Israel because the Zionists are imperialist parasites that are robbing a native population of their homeland. I don&#39;t want to hear any rhetorical bullshit about the Jews being an "oppressed people" that deserve a homeland. Yes, they have faced persecution in the past, like virtually every ethnic/religious group but they are no more oppressed today than any other group, even other white people. The Jews in Israel take up the typical characteristics of white colonialists in other parts of the third world, particularly South Africa (which was its staunch ally during apartheid).
That&#39;s nice. You&#39;re anti-Zionist. You know who said anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are the same thing? Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. [/b]
And he was wrong. Your point is?

[Pete]

I am an anti-Zionist, and that &#39;antizionism is antisemitism&#39; arguement is never backed up, ever. I&#39;ve read it enough time in editorials to the newspapers that I firmly believe that those who make such a claim do not know the difference between Zionism and Judaism, and thus should educate themselves or shut the hell up ^^ I mean the least they could do is sound informed.

-Pete

[AmericanZionist2004]

Originally posted by El Brujo+Jan 7 2004, 05:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (El Brujo @ Jan 7 2004, 05:46 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 01:32 PM

El [email protected] 7 2004, 04:24 AM
I am anti-Israel because the Zionists are imperialist parasites that are robbing a native population of their homeland. I don&#39;t want to hear any rhetorical bullshit about the Jews being an "oppressed people" that deserve a homeland. Yes, they have faced persecution in the past, like virtually every ethnic/religious group but they are no more oppressed today than any other group, even other white people. The Jews in Israel take up the typical characteristics of white colonialists in other parts of the third world, particularly South Africa (which was its staunch ally during apartheid).
That&#39;s nice. You&#39;re anti-Zionist. You know who said anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are the same thing? Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
And he was wrong. Your point is? [/b]
Nice backup of your argument, I must say. "My point being" that the desire for a Jewish homeland is in no way racism, but the virulent nature of Israel&#39;s critics lately is. You can&#39;t tell me large crowds at rallies in Europe chanting "Kill the Jews" in the 21st century is not anti-Semitism. Only now, it&#39;s "politically correct".

[Pete]

Nice backup of your argument, I must say

Your refernce to MLKjr had no relevance to your point at all.

[AmericanZionist2004]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 05:58 AM

Nice backup of your argument, I must say

Your refernce to MLKjr had no relevance to your point at all.
Well on the subject of prejudice you would assume the man knew what he was talking about.

[Urban Rubble]

Because the Palestinians ARE an oppressed people, as as their other third world compatriots, whose homeland was forcefully taken from them

And so were the Jews. So why should they not have a homeland ? I don&#39;t understand, Jews were oppressed, they got a homeland, now Palestinians are being oppressed, they should also have a homeland. I don&#39;t see any argument of why Israel shouldn&#39;t exist.


Explain why Israel shouldn&#39;t exist and Palestine should, I am no getting it.

I support freedom for all people, Jew or Palestinian.

And I don&#39;t agree with any of that bullshit about "Anti Zionism and anti Semitism are the same thing". That is complete nonsense.

[AmericanZionist2004]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 7 2004, 06:08 AM

Because the Palestinians ARE an oppressed people, as as their other third world compatriots, whose homeland was forcefully taken from them

And so were the Jews. So why should they not have a homeland ? I don&#39;t understand, Jews were oppressed, they got a homeland, now Palestinians are being oppressed, they should also have a homeland. I don&#39;t see any argument of why Israel shouldn&#39;t exist.


Explain why Israel shouldn&#39;t exist and Palestine should, I am no getting it.

I support freedom for all people, Jew or Palestinian.

And I don&#39;t agree with any of that bullshit about "Anti Zionism and anti Semitism are the same thing". That is complete nonsense.
But you can&#39;t help but notice that there has been such a recent surge of anti-Semitism that legitimate criticism of Israel has been drowned out. Especially in France. That&#39;s why I hate France, no matter what they think about the war. It is because of their inactions against anti-Semitism, not their actions.

[Monty Cantsin]

Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews, and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is set aside for about 400 Jewish settlers, while the remaining 15% is distributed among Hebron&#39;s 120, 000 Palestinians.

now if that’s not racists I don’t know what is.

source: 30 little known facts about isreal. (http://www.iap.org/littleknownfacts.htm)

also have a look at this JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/)

[Liberty Lover]

The severity of the current crises in the Middle East is entirely the fault of the Arabs refusal to recognise the state of Israel’s right to exist and their unrelenting attempts to destroy it. Indeed, it is Israel’s destruction, rather than Palestine’s establishment, that has long been the priority of Arab governments and even the Palestinians themselves.

On many occasions the Palestinian people have been offered a state, and on each of them they have responded by murdering Jews.

When the Peel Commission of 1937 proposed dividing Palestine between the two sides, with Jerusalem and the majority of land going to the Arabs, the Palestinians, without offering so much as a counter proposal, engaged in arbitrary massacres of Jewish civilians. The most horrific of these took place in Hebron, where the entire Jewish population was either killed or expelled. The greatest tragedy of the Palestinians rejection of the Peel Commission was that it prevented up to a million European Jews from immigrating to what would have been a Jewish state, instead these Jews ended up in Nazi killing fields and gas chambers. Rather than show remorse over this, the Palestinians sided with Nazi Germany and did everything possible to ensure that the Jews of the Middle East shared the fate of their European cousins. The grand mufti of Jerusalem and leader of the Palestinian people, Haj Amin al-Husseini, was involved in the spreading of Nazi propaganda and the organising of Arab-German commandos who attempted to poison Tel Aviv’s water supplies. Here is a little of what he had to say: “Rise o sons of Arabia. Fight for your sacred rights. Slaughter Jews wherever you find them. Their spoiled blood pleases Allah and our religion. That will save us.” Husseini, who spend most of the war years in Berlin advising Hitler on the “Jewish question”, was declared a war criminal at the Nuremberg trials. Regardless of this he was granted Asylum in Egypt and continued to lead the Palestinians. He is now considered by Arafat and many other Arabs to be a hero of their cause. In contrast to the actions of the Arabs, the Jews of Palestine formed armed legions and fought valiantly against the Nazi menace.

The second opportunity for Palestinian statehood came with the U.N. partition plan of 1947 that would have divided Palestine on similar lines as the Peel Commission. As you’d expect, the Arabs responded to this generous offer with a war that had but a single purpose: to destroy the Jews of Israel. Immediately after the Israeli declaration of Independence, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon bombed civilian targets within Israel. Despite their backward air force and comparatively tiny army, Israel defeated the Arab aggressors. They were spurred on by the knowledge that a defeat would mean a repeat of the Holocaust, just as the Arab battle cry suggested, “Murder the Jews, drive them into the sea”. As a result of the war Jordan and Egypt found themselves occupying the West bank and Gaza strip respectively. Rather than give this land to the Palestinians they chose to keep it for themselves. The reason no outcry resulted from these occupations is simple: Israel’s defeat, not Palestine’s creation, remains the top priority among Palestinians, the rest of the Arab world, and armchair activists up to this day.

Yet another opening for a Palestinian state arose at the 2000 Camp David peace negotiations. When Arafat turned down the offer of the Israeli Prime Minister Ahud Barak that would have given the Palestinians 95% of the West Bank, the entire Gaza strip, Jerusalem, the Temple mount and US&#036;30 billion dollars in compensation, he made it all to clear that his desired path was one of bloodshed and that his goal was the destruction of Israel.

Prince Bandor of Saudi Arabia predicted the consequences of Arafat’s actions when he plead with him at Camp David, “You have only two choices. Either you take this deal or we go to war”. Bandor has since labelled Arafat’s decision as a “crime against the Palestinians- in fact, against the entire region”. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

To make it so blindingly clear that even a bunch of stoners like you should understand, Arafat’s communications minister stated, “The Palestinian Authority began to organize for the outbreak of the intifada since its return from the Camp David negotiations, by request of Yasser Arafat”.

It is for the abovementioned reasons that simply giving the Palestinians a state will not solve the conflict. The Arabs will continue to pursue its much-desired goal of destroying Israel. Any Palestinian state will simply be used by Libya, Syria and Iran as a launching pad for further attacks against Israel. Regardless of this, it is my opinion that Israel should take unilateral steps to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Although they will not receive a guarantee of peace they would lift from their shoulders the heavy burden of occupation. What will best deter the Arabs from engaging in another all out attack on the Third Temple is Israel’s nuclear arsenal, that they, more than any nation on earth, have a right to posses.


El Brujo

They rightfully owned the land they lived in in 1948 and the British empire enforced mass immigration there with the excuse that "nobody inhabited the land"

Jews lived in Palestine long before the U.N. partition of 1947. A small number remained in Judea when the Romans emptied it in 70 C.E. But it was with the First Aliyah in 1880 that the Jews arrived en masse and legally purchased land from Arab landlords and the Ottoman government. At this time the already extremely low number of Arabs living in Palestine (most of whom were Bedouin and Egyptian rather than Palestinian) was dwindling significantly. However, with the arrival of these Jewish refugees fleeing persecution in Europe (encouraged by Arab leaders who accurately predicted their arrival would better the situation) Arab numbers flourished. This fact can be attributed to the improved healthcare, water supply and sanitation that the Jews brought with them, cutting infant mortality rates, increasing life expectancy and all but eliminating malaria. Additionally, the newly cultivated land provided the Arabs with many lucrative employment opportunities.

The Jewish immigrants turned a desolate and near uninhabited expanse of land into a prosperous and modernised series of towns and communities. By the time of the U.N. partition in 1947 the Jews were a majority, not just in Jerusalem, but also in the zone partitioned to them. They outnumbered the Arabs by hundreds of thousands.

P.S. Some of the above has been posted in a previous thread.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 05:51 AM
I am an anti-Zionist, and that &#39;antizionism is antisemitism&#39; arguement is never backed up, ever. I&#39;ve read it enough time in editorials to the newspapers that I firmly believe that those who make such a claim do not know the difference between Zionism and Judaism, and thus should educate themselves or shut the hell up ^^ I mean the least they could do is sound informed.

-Pete
Then why cant the muslims make that difference??. There has been growing anti-semitism in europe form muslims, WHY cant they tell the difference between Israel and jews?

El Brujo:

Because the Palestinians ARE an oppressed people, as as their other third world compatriots, whose homeland was forcefully taken from them. They rightfully owned the land they lived in in 1948 and the British empire enforced mass immigration there with the excuse that "nobody inhabited the land" (the same excuse white colonialists in Africa used when they invaded the southern horn, and likewise, they invaded and took control over more land). It would have not been a problem if it had been negotiated with the Palestinians for them to immigrate there and live peacefully in their land, nevertheless it was not a necessary event as institutionalized "anti-semitism" died when the nazis were defeated.
First of all Both JEWS AND MUSLIMS(arabs) lived in that land. Second, the nation of Israel was firsted established 11 centuries B.C., so who does the land belong to??

If the palestines wanted a country so much why didnt they make one before 1948??

Before WWII Britain was preventing jews from immigrating to palestine. ANd after WWII holocaust survivers where not allowed to go to palestine by the British. :o :o http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761558.../Palestine.html (http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761558705_2/Palestine.html)
Also Jordan and egypt kept part of the land that was supposed to go to Palestines after the 1948 war, why didn&#39;t the palestines fight them???

Also , look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_ea...ast/1423589.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1423589.stm)

[LSD]

What&#39;s truly sad about Israel is that when it was created it was rescuing an oppresed people. At that time it had a defendable moral position. However over time the actions of the Israely government have erroded that morality such that today it has become the oppressor. This was a very avoidable situation, and had Israel not made some monumentally stupid decisions along the way it never would of manifested.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 7 2004, 07:51 AM
What&#39;s truly sad about Israel is that when it was created it was rescuing an oppresed people. At that time it had a defendable moral position. However over time the actions of the Israely government have erroded that morality such that today it has become the oppressor. This was a very avoidable situation, and had Israel not made some monumentally stupid decisions along the way it never would of manifested.
Israel&#39;s actions where reactions to what the palestinian terrorist where doing.

lol, Iraquis, my bad, correction its Israel

[LSD]

Iraqui actions where reactions to what the palestinian terrorist where doing.


what??

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by AmericanZionist2004+Jan 7 2004, 01:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AmericanZionist2004 @ Jan 7 2004, 01:51 PM)
Originally posted by El [email protected] 7 2004, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 01:32 PM

El [email protected] 7 2004, 04:24 AM
I am anti-Israel because the Zionists are imperialist parasites that are robbing a native population of their homeland. I don&#39;t want to hear any rhetorical bullshit about the Jews being an "oppressed people" that deserve a homeland. Yes, they have faced persecution in the past, like virtually every ethnic/religious group but they are no more oppressed today than any other group, even other white people. The Jews in Israel take up the typical characteristics of white colonialists in other parts of the third world, particularly South Africa (which was its staunch ally during apartheid).
That&#39;s nice. You&#39;re anti-Zionist. You know who said anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are the same thing? Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
And he was wrong. Your point is?
Nice backup of your argument, I must say. "My point being" that the desire for a Jewish homeland is in no way racism, but the virulent nature of Israel&#39;s critics lately is. You can&#39;t tell me large crowds at rallies in Europe chanting "Kill the Jews" in the 21st century is not anti-Semitism. Only now, it&#39;s "politically correct".[/b]
a) Your argument was that "anti-zionism is anti-semitism" and you used something MLK (an Uncle Tom IMO, though I admit he has brought some progress) said to "prove" that "fact."

b) I am not arguing that Zionist ideology is "officially" racist. I am arguing that it is ethnocentric and chauvinistic, and that it has been racist in practice.

c) "Anti-semitism" is an accusation used by neo-conservatives to make it politically incorrect to criticize Israel. First of all, it is inaccurate because not all semites are Jews and not all religious Jews are semites. Most Jews today are mostly of European stock with some semitic heritage, whereas the Arabs (who are oppressed by Zionism) are 100% semitic. Second of all, people who criticize Zionism are criticizing the illegal occupation and domination of some Jews over the Arabs. Claiming that it is anti-Semitism is like claiming that the anti-Apartheid movement is racist against white people.

d) You can&#39;t tell me large crowds at rallies in Europe chanting "Kill the Jews" in the 21st century is not anti-Semitism. Only now, it&#39;s "politically correct".

"You can&#39;t tell me large crowds at rallies in the US chanting "Kill the Ragheads" in the 21st century is not racist. Only now, it&#39;s "politically correct"" ;)

[LSD]

First of all, it is inaccurate because not all semites are Jews and not all religious Jews are semites. Most Jews today are mostly of European stock with some semitic heritage, whereas the Arabs (who are oppressed by Zionism) are 100% semitic. Second of all, people who criticize Zionism are criticizing the illegal occupation and domination of some Jews over the Arabs. Claiming that it is anti-Semitism is like claiming that the anti-Apartheid movement is racist against white people.


OK, I guess this really isn&#39;t important, but a lot of people make this mistake so:
The word &#39;Anti-semitism&#39; was coined in Germany in 1873 by Wilhelm Marr as a more euphonious way of saying "Judenhass" (Jew-hatred). This name was chosen because Marr and others believed in a now discredited theory that held that certain racial groups and linguistic groups coincide. The fact that one could literally interpret it as hatred of all semites is irrelevent, it means hatred of jews.




I am not arguing that Zionist ideology is "officially" racist. I am arguing that it is ethnocentric and chauvinistic, and that it has been racist in practice.


absolutely.

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 7 2004, 02:08 PM

Because the Palestinians ARE an oppressed people, as as their other third world compatriots, whose homeland was forcefully taken from them

And so were the Jews. So why should they not have a homeland ? I don&#39;t understand, Jews were oppressed, they got a homeland, now Palestinians are being oppressed, they should also have a homeland. I don&#39;t see any argument of why Israel shouldn&#39;t exist.


Explain why Israel shouldn&#39;t exist and Palestine should, I am no getting it.

I support freedom for all people, Jew or Palestinian.

And I don&#39;t agree with any of that bullshit about "Anti Zionism and anti Semitism are the same thing". That is complete nonsense.
Now, I believe the state of Israel should remain because people were born there and it is not feasible to massively deport a population (though it should be defeated, disarmed, pushed back a decent ammount of territory and isolated until tensions to cool down for any sort of "peaceful coexistance" to exist between it and its neighbors). However, its creation in the first place was unlawful and unnecessary. A way for them to combat oppression would have been for them to mobilize in an attempt to gain equality at home. By moving away from their "oppressors," in the form of an invasion force in the third world, they were simply serving their western imperialism. Now, the Jews are no longer an oppressed people but some of them (the Zionists) are part of the oppression.

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by Liberty [email protected] 7 2004, 02:48 PM
Jews lived in Palestine long before the U.N. partition of 1947. A small number remained in Judea when the Romans emptied it in 70 C.E. But it was with the First Aliyah in 1880 that the Jews arrived en masse and legally purchased land from Arab landlords and the Ottoman government. At this time the already extremely low number of Arabs living in Palestine (most of whom were Bedouin and Egyptian rather than Palestinian) was dwindling significantly. However, with the arrival of these Jewish refugees fleeing persecution in Europe (encouraged by Arab leaders who accurately predicted their arrival would better the situation) Arab numbers flourished. This fact can be attributed to the improved healthcare, water supply and sanitation that the Jews brought with them, cutting infant mortality rates, increasing life expectancy and all but eliminating malaria. Additionally, the newly cultivated land provided the Arabs with many lucrative employment opportunities.

The Jewish immigrants turned a desolate and near uninhabited expanse of land into a prosperous and modernised series of towns and communities. By the time of the U.N. partition in 1947 the Jews were a majority, not just in Jerusalem, but also in the zone partitioned to them. They outnumbered the Arabs by hundreds of thousands.

I am aware that there were Jews in Palestine before WW2, this was not an excuse for them to claim it "Jewish land." The massive immigration of Jews to Palestine was planned by the British (see the Balfour Declaration) and though the Jews made up only one third of the population, they were given over half of the land and expelled Arab residents of their "territory." And the whole bit about the Palestinians living standards increasing is completely irrelevant. The same argument could be used to defend slavery because blacks in the US have higher living standards than those in Sub-Saharan Africa.

[Liberty Lover]

El Brujo


I am aware that there were Jews in Palestine before WW2, this was not an excuse for them to claim it "Jewish land." The massive immigration of Jews to Palestine was planned by the British (see the Balfour Declaration) and though the Jews made up only one third of the population, they were given over half of the land and expelled Arab residents of their "territory."

This post makes abundantly clear your ignorance of Palestine’s history. As I mentioned in my initial post, the Jews of the first Aliyah arrived in 1880 and the Jews of the second Aliyah came between 1904-1914. This was many years before the Balfour Declaration was proposed in 1917. Also mentioned in my previous post was the fact that Jewish immigration to Palestine was in response to persecution in Europe, particularly in Tsarist Russia. These historical facts blow away the common misconception that Jewish immigrants where a part of a colonial plot, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. I suggest you actually read my first post in its entirety; it puts to rest your claim that the Jews simply declared Palestine “Jewish land”.

Further historical inaccuracies contained in your post come in your insinuation that Arabs were expelled from the land allotted the Jews by the U.N. partition plan of 1947. While many Arabs did move to their territory, it was of their own free will, or in response to the fighting that resulted from the genocidal war of extermination against the Jews (that I elaborated on in my initial post). The same cannot be said about the 850, 000 Sephardic Jews living in Arab nations that were forced out with only what they could carry.

The Palestinians where quite happy to let Jordan and Egypt occupy the territory granted to them by the partition plan, so what is it that makes you think they would have felt any differently had they gained full control over Palestine?


And the whole bit about the Palestinians living standards increasing is completely irrelevant. The same argument could be used to defend slavery because blacks in the US have higher living standards than those in Sub-Saharan Africa.

This was simply to show that Palestine would still be the malaria ridden marsh land it was before 1880 if it weren’t for the Jewish immigrants and that, therefore, they are well deserved of the land allocated to them by the U.N.

[(*]

I would like to see 2 nations coexist. One Israel, and the other Palestine. Both with an equal amount of land (of the Original British Mandate). 50-50.
This should be the ultimate goal, how it is achieved is another story.

I take issue with a country being considered a "homeland" or set aside for any specific religious group.

What I really would like to ask some of you, is your opinion on the wall being created by Israel.
Do you support its construction? If so, why?

[Intifada]

sorry posted twice

[Intifada]

this is why i hate israel...

[Intifada]

this is why i hate israel...

[Intifada]

this is why i hate israel...

[Intifada]

if pro-israeli assholes are going to try and tell me that the palestinians are not being oppressed, they should hang their head in shame.

FUCK ISRAEL&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry:

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 05:05 PM
if pro-israeli assholes are going to try and tell me that the palestinians are not being oppressed, they should hang their head in shame.

FUCK ISRAEL&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry:
So you hate ISrael because in their strikes at the terrorist, they have killed innocent civilians. BUt you like Stalin, Mao and Castro after the first two have killed millions on purpose and castro has also killed many innocent civilians. And of course you also like HITLER.

So you support them:
http://www.e-bski.org/Israel/Gimmon.htm

there was suppose to be a picture of palestinians with a nazi flag and palestinians doing the nazi salut , but for some reason I couldnt post it.



http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=hitler/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://techcenter.davidson.k12.nc.us/spring4/people/hitler.gif

[Intifada]

So you hate ISrael because in their strikes at the terrorist, they have killed innocent civilians

no because they do it deliberately. they dont let pregnent palestinian women past checkpoints to get to hospital. lots of them have died.

i know i guy called mick napier. he went to palestine. the israelis shot at water supplies and poured urine on palestinian property. they are terrorists.


BUt you like Stalin, Mao and Castro after the first two have killed millions on purpose and castro has also killed many innocent civilians. And of course you like hitler also.

yet again you speak out of your ass. quote me. give evidence about my support for these people, especially hitler LOL.


there was suppose to be a picture of palestinians with a nazi flag and palestinians doing the nazi salut , but for some reason I couldnt post it.

really??? :P

[el_profe]

BUt you like Stalin, Mao and Castro after the first two have killed millions on purpose and castro has also killed many innocent civilians. And of course you like hitler also.


yet again you speak out of your ass. quote me. give evidence about my support for these people, especially hitler LOL

:o , Everyone else in the forum is in love with at least one of those 3 so of course you also must of liked their gov&#39;s , at least 1 of them and all 3 are murderers .
Even though you dont admit it, you hate jews, so you must of agreed with what Hitler did to the jews. Just like palestinian terrorist and probably non-terrorist also liked what hitler did.
Answer me this, if most muslims only hate Israel and not jews, why the hell did the EU make a report on growing anti-semitism against jews in Europe by muslims.
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthrea...p3?threadid=189 (http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?threadid=189)

http://www.e-bski.org/Israel/Gimmon.htm

[Urban Rubble]

I am really divided on this issue. Both have a fairly legitimate claim to the land. I think the only solution is to find a way for them to coexist.

IhateBush

You&#39;re an idiot. Posting pictures of dead babies and blown up buildings not only does nothing for your cause, it makes you look like a desperate idiot. I could just as easily have shown you pictures of dead Jewish babies or a bus full of dead civilians after a Palestinian suicide bomb. This is war, these things are obviously going to happen, posting pictures of it really shows how little you know about the situation. Why not debate it ? Why resort to shock tactics ? That was really fucking stupid. I am sure you would not like me to post a picture of 20 Jews laying in 100 peices after a Palestinian blew himself up on the bus. Do you actually believe that it is soley Israel&#39;s fault ? Do you think that Palestinians targeting civilians is O.K ?

Both sides of this conflict have a substantial amount of blood on their hands. You have shown how completely non objective you are.

[El Brujo]

Originally posted by Liberty [email protected] 7 2004, 07:14 PM
This post makes abundantly clear your ignorance of Palestine’s history. As I mentioned in my initial post, the Jews of the first Aliyah arrived in 1880 and the Jews of the second Aliyah came between 1904-1914. This was many years before the Balfour Declaration was proposed in 1917.
No it does not, buddy. I know about the attempted Jewish colonization in Palestine in 1882. No more than 50,000 were allowed to settle there until the Ottoman Empire closed Palestine to the Jews in 1884 (after which it banned sale of land to foreign Jews in Palestine).



Also mentioned in my previous post was the fact that Jewish immigration to Palestine was in response to persecution in Europe, particularly in Tsarist Russia. These historical facts blow away the common misconception that Jewish immigrants where a part of a colonial plot, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. I suggest you actually read my first post in its entirety; it puts to rest your claim that the Jews simply declared Palestine “Jewish land”.

I know that some Jews fleed persecution in Europe (and they were supported by European powers in part because of this, they wanted Jews out of their countries). However, the Zionists were very much a part of a colonial plot in Palestine, read up on the Jewish Colonization Assosiation. European powers pressured the Ottoman Empire to allow Jews to settle in Palestine since 1911.


historical inaccuracies contained in your post come in your insinuation that Arabs were expelled from the land allotted the Jews by the U.N. partition plan of 1947. While many Arabs did move to their territory, it was of their own free will, or in response to the fighting that resulted from the genocidal war of extermination against the Jews (that I elaborated on in my initial post). The same cannot be said about the 850, 000 Sephardic Jews living in Arab nations that were forced out with only what they could carry.

The palestinians living within "Jewish territory" were persecuted and forced to leave due to tensions that were arising. It was hardly out of their "own free will." And the whole bit about the "war of extermination against the Jews" proves you are clearly blinded by neo-conservative propaghanda.


estinians where quite happy to let Jordan and Egypt occupy the territory granted to them by the partition plan, so what is it that makes you think they would have felt any differently had they gained full control over Palestine?

What&#39;s your point? Transjordan and Egypt had ethnic Palestinians living within their boarders for a long time.


s simply to show that Palestine would still be the malaria ridden marsh land it was before 1880 if it weren’t for the Jewish immigrants and that, therefore, they are well deserved of the land allocated to them by the U.N.

So now instead of being "malaria-ridden," the Palestinians are being exterminated, wow what an improvement. That is the same type of excuse used by western imperialists everywhere, that they are bringing "civilization" to the places they are occupying when it is just a tool to rob more land and money. The Jews didn&#39;t deserve the land they got in the UN mandate anymore than the whites deserved control over South Africa.

[Intifada]

Answer me this, if most muslims only hate Israel and not jews, why the hell did the EU make a report on growing anti-semitism against jews in Europe by muslims.

i have answered this question in the other thread (facts about israel). you havent replied.

urban rubble,

Do you actually believe that it is soley Israel&#39;s fault ?

i believe suicide bombings would decrease if israel get out of palestinian territory.


Do you think that Palestinians targeting civilians is O.K ?

no. but as you said this is war.

do you believe that israel has a right to demolish palestinian homes, build a wall which is promoting apartheid, kill innocent palestinians, launch raids on refugee camps, control water and electricity supplies, build illegal settlements, use roadblocks and dheckpoints, destroy palestinian land etc etc?

[Saint-Just]

The Jews who came to Israel after WWII committed atrocities as terrible as the suicide bombings that occur now. They initiated many terror attacks on Arabs. I know an ex-British soldier who had to cut down 5 of his friends who had been decapitated by Jewish terrorists and tied up when the British were administering the area. The British were attmpeting to slow the influx of Jews into the area, the Jews attacked anyone who got in their way, including the British who organised they they could take the region.

[Intifada]

Israel has a very dark record of full engagement in the practice of political
assassination. Even at the establishment of the state, Zionist terrorist
groups assassinated the United Nations Mediator for Palestine, Count Folk
Bernadotte, at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. In fact, it has been the
established policy of successive Israeli governments to plot and carry out
the assassinations of Israel&#39;s purported enemies. The Israeli agents involved
in such physical elimination of enemies operate practically allover the
world.

A LIST OF THE ISRAELI&#39;S POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS

NAME DATE PLACE

Ghassan Kanafani 1972 Beirut
Wail Zuaiter 1972 Rome
Mahmoud Al Hamshari 1972 Paris
Hussein AbulKhair 1973 Nicosia
Basel Kubaissy (Iraqi) 1973 Paris
Mohammad Yousef AlNajjar* 1973 Beirut
Kamal Adwan* 1973 Beirut
Kamal Naser* 1973 Beirut
Nada Yashruti 1973 Beirut
Mohammad BouDaiah(Algerian1973 Paris
Ahmed BouChiki (Tunisian) 1973 Oslo
Abdel Rahman Saleh 1973 Copenhagen
Hamdi Rahmeh 1975 Beirut
Mahmoud Saleh 1977 Paris
Ali Naser Yassin 1978 Kuwait
Ali Salameh 1979 Beirut
Zuhair Muhsen 1979 Cannes
Samir Touqan 1979 Paris
Yousef Mubarak 1980 Nicosia
Naim Khader 1980 Brussels
Majed Abu Sharar 1981 Rome
Abdul Wahab AlKayyli 1981 Beirut
Hussein Kamal 1982 Rome
Mohammad Qadoumi 1982 Paris
Sa&#39;ad Sayel 1982 Beirut
Suhail Abul Kul 1982 Nicosia
Tawfik AlSafadi 1983 Nicosia
Mamoun Mreish 1983 Amman
Ismail Darwish 1984 Paris
Hanna Muqbil 1984 Nicosia
Fahed AlQuasmeh 1984 Amman
Alex Odeh 1985 California
Khaled Nazzal 1986 Athens
Munther Abu Ghazaleh 1986 Athens
Thafer Al Masri 1986 Nablus
Naji AlAli 1987 London
Marwan Kayyali 1988 Nicosia
Mohammad Hassan AlBuhaisy 1988 Nicosia
Mohammed Basem Sultan 1988 Nicosia
Khalil AlWazir 1988 Tunis
Atef Bseisso 1989 Paris
Abbas Musawi (Lebanese)* 1992 S.Lebanon
Imad Aqel 1993 Gaza
AbdulMuniem Abu Hamid 1994 Al Ram
Hani Abed 1994 W.Bank
Mahmud el Khawaja 1995 Gaza
Yahia Ayash 1996 Gaza
Fathi AlShiqaqi 1996 Malta
Muhieddin AlSharief 1998 Gaza

[Intifada]

In the first Fifty years, the Zionist colonizers (settlers) and the
par-military organizations in Palestine used terrorism against the
Palestinian civilian population; by committing ethnic cleansing massacres,
bombing cars, demolishing houses, assassinating personalities and exploding
community centers.

Soon after the end of world II, there were three basic para-military Zionist
organizations in Palestine, terrorizing the Palestinians, with specific
purpose of driving them out of their cities, towns, and villages, and
expropriating their properties, and finally trying to wipe Palestine&#39;s name
from world history.

These para-military organizations were the called the Haganah, which was
formed before the British Mandate, when the Jewish colonizers (settlers) had
formed a group of mounted armed watchmen called "Hashomar", and with the
advent of the British Mandate, it became the Haganah (Defense).

Those terrorist organizations committed systematic massacres against the
Palestinians, after the U.N partition plan of 1947 and till the end of the
British Mandate on May 14, 1948, starting with a massacre in the village of
Sheikh Breik in 1947 then:

CITY/ TOWN/ VILLAGE DISTRICT DATE (1948)

Mansurat al Khayt Safad 18 Jan.
Qisarya Haifa 15 Feb.
Wadi &#39;Ara Jenin/Haifa 27 Feb.
Abu Kbeir Jaffa 31 Mar. Dayr Yassin *
Jerusalem 09Apr.
Nasir ad Din, Khirbet Tiberias 12 Apr.
Hawsha Haifa 15 Apr.
Wa&#39;ra al-Sawada, Khirbet Tiberias 18 Apr.
Husayniyya Safad 21 Apr.
Haifa Haifa 21 Apr.
Balad ash Sheikh Haifa (01 Jan.) 25 Apr.
Ayn az Zaytun Safad 02 May
al &#39;Abbasiyya Jaffa 04 May
Bayt Daras Gaza 11 May
Burayr Gaza 12 May
Khubbayza Haifa 12 May
Abu Shusha Al-Ramla 14 May
al Tantoura Haifa 21 May
al Kabri Acre 21 May
al Khisas Safad 25 May
Qazaza Al-Ramla 09 Jul.
Lydda Al-Ramla 10 Jul.
al Tira Haifa 16 Jul.
Ijzim Haifa 24 Jul.
Beer Sheba Beer Sheba 21 Oct.
Safsaf Safad 29 Oct.
al Dawayima Hebron 29 Oct.
Eilaboun Acre 29 Oct.
Jish Acre 29 Oct.
Majd al Kurum Acre 29 Oct.
Arab al Samniyya Acre 30 Oct.
Saliha Safad (15 Feb.) 30 Oct.
Sa&#39;sa&#39; Safad 30 Oct.

[Misodoctakleidist]

The second opportunity for Palestinian statehood came with the U.N. partition plan of 1947 that would have divided Palestine on similar lines as the Peel Commission. As you’d expect, the Arabs responded to this generous offer with a war that had but a single purpose: to destroy the Jews of Israel.

Oh what a generous offer&#33; "We only demand some of you land instead of all of it"

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 08:54 PM

Answer me this, if most muslims only hate Israel and not jews, why the hell did the EU make a report on growing anti-semitism against jews in Europe by muslims.

i have answered this question in the other thread (facts about israel). you havent replied.urban rubble,

YES in your answer you admit that Muslims cant see the difference between Israel and jews so when Israel makes a bad decisions all JEWS HAVE TO SUFFER FOR that.

By your logic, it would of been fined to kill germans for what hitler did.


do you believe that israel has a right to demolish palestinian homes, build a wall which is promoting apartheid, kill innocent palestinians, launch raids on refugee camps, control water and electricity supplies, build illegal settlements, use roadblocks and dheckpoints, destroy palestinian land etc etc?

But when Israel does this they are going after suspected or known terrorist homes or places that they use for meeting puposes, to make bombs etc.

The terrorist target civilians on purpose just because they hate jews.

[(*]

I feel it is important to point out that Hitler didn&#39;t kill Jews only.

Yes, most of them were. But when people say "look what hitler did to the jews" or "he killed 6 million jews" you take away from the others (non-jews) that were murdered by that maniac.

Is it somehow worse that most of his victims were jews?

[el_profe]

Originally posted by (*@Jan 7 2004, 09:57 PM
I feel it is important to point out that Hitler didn&#39;t kill Jews only.

Yes, most of them were. But when people say "look what hitler did to the jews" or "he killed 6 million jews" you take away from the others (non-jews) that were murdered by that maniac.

Is it somehow worse that most of his victims were jews?
But he had a personal mission to exterminate jews. Although 5 million where killed for different reason he was not trying to extermiant the different groups that where in that 5 million. Maybe gypsies.

Also the jewish where forced to give up their bussiness where the stars....

[(*]

One can argue that he hated Jews more, but in the end everyone died a terrible death.
He had a vendetta against anyone who was not of the "Herrenvolk"

[Urban Rubble]

Do you think that Palestinians targeting civilians is O.K ?


no. but as you said this is war.

No you fool it is not, it is terrorism. War is when you attack the ruling class of another nation, war is when you fight the army and the government. Terrorism is when you kill civilians with the intent of "terrorising" the people of that country. Do you even know the definition of terrorism.

I cannot believe you are trying to justify the deliberate slaughter of innocent people. Simply amazing. I am not saying Israel hasn&#39;t had it&#39;s share of attrocities, but for the most part they do not try to attack civilians. I don&#39;t care how oppressed these people are, targeting civilians is not an acceptable way to fight, no matter who you are.

I like how you totally ignore my mention of you using shock tactics.

[AmericanZionist2004]

Prove it, "ihatebush". Prove that Israel was founded as an imperialist, colonialist state.

[Intifada]

YES in your answer you admit that Muslims cant see the difference between Israel and jews so when Israel makes a bad decisions all JEWS HAVE TO SUFFER FOR that.

no i didnt. you still havent answered my question about sharon&#39;s policies contributing to the racism against the jews.


By your logic, it would of been fined to kill germans for what hitler did.


whatever. you are the racist. you hate muslims.


But when Israel does this they are going after suspected or known terrorist homes or places that they use for meeting puposes, to make bombs etc.

a pregnant woman is a terrorist??? the soldiers dont let pregnant women past checkpoints. one palestinian doctor whom i spoke to had to give birth to a baby at a checkpoint. other women have died. THAT IS TERRORISM&#33;


The terrorist target civilians on purpose just because they hate jews

so it has nothing to do with persecution and occupation, huh? :blink:


No you fool it is not, it is terrorism.

how can they fight what you call a war if they dont have anything but themselves and a bomb. they dont have american apaches and tanks. they have nothing.


War is when you attack the ruling class of another nation, war is when you fight the army and the government.

in war, that rarely happens. the palestinians can only sacrifice themselves in order to punch a tiny blow to the israelis. if this is the rules of war, why have more than 2000 innocent palestinians been killed by israel during this intifada.


Do you even know the definition of terrorism.

there is no distinctions between war and "terrorism". terrorism is such a vague word to use.


Terrorism is when you kill civilians with the intent of "terrorising" the people of that country.

this is what israel does.

a palestinian woman came to my city. she told us of how the israelis have bombed her house. they are not even allowed to get permission to fix it from the israelis. they have to endure almost weeks of water and electricity shortages because the israeli army cuts them both off.


but for the most part they do not try to attack civilians.

with tanks. with helicopters which are meant to destroy enemy tanks, not people.


I don&#39;t care how oppressed these people are, targeting civilians is not an acceptable way to fight, no matter who you are.

they have no option. they are desperate. they have tried negotiations. the west just sits and watches while arming israel.

how come you dont condemn the targeting of innocent palestinians? no western leader ever comes out and condemns a killing of a palestinian. yet they are quick to condemn the palestinians.


I like how you totally ignore my mention of you using shock tactics.

they werent shock tactics. they were pictures showing el profe that palestinians are oppressed.


Prove it, "ihatebush". Prove that Israel was founded as an imperialist, colonialist state.

they are imperialist. if they arent why dont they get out of palestinian territory?

israel was created by British imperialism to serve British imperialist interests in fragmenting the Arab homeland and oppressing the Arab people.

[Urban Rubble]

how can they fight what you call a war if they dont have anything but themselves and a bomb. they dont have american apaches and tanks. they have nothing.

So because they don&#39;t have tanks and helicopters that is an acceptable excuse to kill innocent people ?


in war, that rarely happens. the palestinians can only sacrifice themselves in order to punch a tiny blow to the israelis. if this is the rules of war, why have more than 2000 innocent palestinians been killed by israel during this intifada.

I never said Israel is following the rules of war, in fact, I said the exact opposite.

Killing civilians on purpose, no matter how big a blow it causes, is not acceptable.


there is no distinctions between war and "terrorism". terrorism is such a vague word to use

There is a very clear and distinct definition of terrorism. It is when you attack civilians with the aim scaring, or "terrorising" the ruling class.


this is what israel does.

Sometimes, yes. But not as often as Palestinians. Israel, for the most part, is going after terrorists. Yes, they do kill alot of civilians in the process, which is wrong, but it is not the same thing as intentionally targeting civilians.


how come you dont condemn the targeting of innocent palestinians? no western leader ever comes out and condemns a killing of a palestinian. yet they are quick to condemn the palestinians.

If you would read my posts you would see that I did critisize Israel for killing Palestinians. I said they both are guilty of attrocities.


they werent shock tactics. they were pictures showing el profe that palestinians are oppressed.

I could show you the same pictures of blown up Israelis, does that mean they are also "oppressed" ? I could show you pictures of dead German babies from WW2, does that mean we were wrong to fight Germany ?

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 04:38 PM

YES in your answer you admit that Muslims cant see the difference between Israel and jews so when Israel makes a bad decisions all JEWS HAVE TO SUFFER FOR that.

no i didnt. you still havent answered my question about sharon&#39;s policies contributing to the racism against the jews.


I just did. If muslims could see the difference between ISrael and JEWS, they wouldnt attack jews if they dont like what Sharon is doing.
Once again thanks for proving my point that muslims hate jews and ISrael.

[Hal]

To sum up arguments agreed upon by my group of Israeli American friends (not only my own views)...

why we believe in Israel:
It is a modern state, the only state in the Middle East where Western ideology is present.

To expand upon that: I support Israel becuase of freedom of religion. Arabs sit in the kinesset. Whether this is right or wrong, I shall abstain from commenting. I support their economic and social systems which _constantly_ invents new technological products. I support their education and civilization. Please don&#39;t argue "palastinians never had a chance," unless you acknowledge that it was their own governments and fellow arab/muslim govenrments that deprived them of this chance.


To sum up arguments about history:
both groups have historic claims to the land. Jews have biblical claims, and historical claims, up to the time of the Austro-Hungarian empire. They were also promised the land by the British, who owned the land c. 1910. Palastinians have owned the land in other times. History is irrelevent.

Arguments about the Founding:
Origionally, it was offered to establish 2 states with Jeruslem shared. Jews accepted, Palastininans denied plan. Period. No argument here. I (personally) do not hold a judge against Palastininans for this.

Okay argue away. Please be more mature than to insuly me for my spelling, or lack thereof. I&#39;m kinda tired, and if you don&#39;t understand a misspelled word it means you can&#39;t read english.

[Urban Rubble]

Good post Hal. Though I am quite sure you&#39;re a Capitalist, and therefore my enemy :lol: , I largely agree.


Please don&#39;t argue "palastinians never had a chance," unless you acknowledge that it was their own governments and fellow arab/muslim govenrments that deprived them of this chance.

Though I do disagree with this. Yes, there has been times when they have not accepted the deals, the Israelis also share alot of the blame for them not having the chance.

[communist_comrade]

Hey all,
i am pro-israel because Israel is much smaller than palestine...all israel wants to do is live THEIR lives on THEIR land , palestine is much bigger and has a bigger military...ya know why israel have kept their land their&#39;s? well heres the answer THEY ARE SKILLED ...they have the best military in the world in my opinion..not the biggest but the best..they have never lost a war and i salute them for that. Che was always for the little man and israel is the little man. They took a small piece of land that was desert and turned it into utopia and palestine is trying to take that away from them..so you people that want israel gone...are sick sick people.

[Intifada]

So because they don&#39;t have tanks and helicopters that is an acceptable excuse to kill innocent people ?

no. but whatever they do they will still be ignored by the west. i dont agree with the killing of innocent people, but i do understand why some palestinians have been driven to suicide bombings.


I never said Israel is following the rules of war

then what is israel following? terrorism?

you have contradicted yourself. both parties are responsible for innocent deaths, israel have been 4 times worse.


Sometimes, yes. But not as often as Palestinians. Israel, for the most part, is going after terrorists. Yes, they do kill alot of civilians in the process, which is wrong, but it is not the same thing as intentionally targeting civilians.

so how come around 4 times as many palestinians have been killed compared to israelis?

the israelis humiliate and treat the palestinians like shit. there was a report in the FT about how some israeli citizens pour urine on top of palestinian shop keepers and their shops. they think that they are their superiors.

[Intifada]

el profe, considering your absolutely fucked up "translations" of chapters from the qur&#39;an, from now on im just going to ignore your ignorance.

[Intifada]

i am pro-israel because Israel is much smaller than palestine...all israel wants to do is live THEIR lives on THEIR land , palestine is much bigger and has a bigger military

what a load of utter bullshit :lol:


they have the best military in the world in my opinion

:blink: not a surprise considering they are armed by the u&#036;a, britain and other western nations.


Che was always for the little man and israel is the little man.

:huh: israel is the little man??&#33;&#33; wtf&#33;


so you people that want israel gone

i want them "gone" from palestinian land&#33;

[Pete]

Then why cant the muslims make that difference??. There has been growing anti-semitism in europe form muslims, WHY cant they tell the difference between Israel and jews?

I don&#39;t know if the claims of antisemitism on the rise are true or just people crying wolf, like terror alerts. But in answer to your first question it takes two to tango. Israel has to stop blowing about the hot air, take down the apartheid wall, allow the exiles back in, give them full citizenship, stop asking the occupied to gaurantee the occupiers security, and stop the occupation. Also, Jerusalem is a sticky point. Maybe if an heir to the jebusites can be found... (that would be just as ridiclous as the jew&#39;s biblical claim to the kingdom of david).

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 05:10 PM

i am pro-israel because Israel is much smaller than palestine...all israel wants to do is live THEIR lives on THEIR land , palestine is much bigger and has a bigger military

what a load of utter bullshit :lol:


Israel is mcuh smaller than all teh countries surrounding it that want it destroyed.


(ihatebush @ Jan 8 2004, 04:38 PM)


YES, in your answer you admit that Muslims cant see the difference between Israel and jews so when Israel makes a bad decisions all JEWS HAVE TO SUFFER FOR that.


no i didnt. you still havent answered my question about sharon&#39;s policies contributing to the racism against the jews.



I just did. If muslims could see the difference between ISrael and JEWS, they wouldnt attack jews if they dont like what Sharon is doing.
Once again thanks for proving my point that muslims hate jews and ISrael.

[Valishin]

I support them because they are not the ones who started the conflict nor are they the ones resorting to terrorism.

I also favor protection for Isreal over creation of palestine, although getting both at the same time would be the best scenario. But the reason for this is quite simple. The palastinian mandate was suppose to be a land ruled over by both jews and arabs at the same time. Well the arabs took 2/3 of the mandate and formed Trans-Jordan, later to be just Jordan. The jews had no ruling authority in this 2/3s of the land they were suppose to be sharing. The jews turned around and formed their own country out of what is now Israel. The surrounding arab nations attacked and after some time Israel ended up taking back not only what the surrounding nations had taken from them but a little extra as well. They then agreed to trade that land back for the sake of peace. The arabs would have none of it. Jordan gave up any claim over the west bank making it free game, yet Israel still has legitimate claim as do the arabs.

It also doesn&#39;t help the case much that the PLO still has in their defining documention the part of about pushing all jews into the sea. And lastly but not least even the uniform patches warn by Arafat show palastine as encompasing all of what is now Israel.



the Zionists are imperialist parasites that are robbing a native population of their homeland.
Read your history, both groups arabs and jews are just as native as the other to that area. They have both been living there side by side for over 3000 years.


Because the Palestinians ARE an oppressed people, as as their other third world compatriots, whose homeland was forcefully taken from them.
You do realize that the vast majority of pals are 1st or 2nd generation Jordanian immigrants don&#39;t you?


It would have not been a problem if it had been negotiated with the Palestinians for them to immigrate there and live peacefully in their land
First off there was no such thing as a palestinian at that point in time. Secondly you are talking about land that was taken as a conquest of war. It was Britian&#39;s to do with as they saw fit.


That&#39;s nice. You&#39;re anti-Zionist. You know who said anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are the same thing? Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
He was technically incorrect on that. Zionism is about the creation of the Jewish homeland as a country for the jews aka: Israel. Jews are semites that is true. But not all semites are jews. Muslims are semites as well. Also not all jews are neccessarly zionists.

Both anti-zionist and anti-semitism are roughly the same in so far as they are both practiced by intolerant morons.

[Aram]

Because Israel is the best country in the region right now. Deal with it&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Hate Is Art]

Aram your a twat.

Both Israel and Palestine are as bad as each other, try talking to each with out accusing the other of killing each other or commiting terrorist attrocities.

[Intifada]

el profe, ill say it again, considering your absolutely fucked up "translations" of chapters from the qur&#39;an, from now on im just going to ignore your ignorance.

[Intifada]

i am pro-israel because Israel is much smaller than palestine...all israel wants to do is live THEIR lives on THEIR land , palestine is much bigger and has a bigger military

that is what i was laughing at, plus the rest of the idiocy shown in that particular post.


I support them because they are not the ones who started the conflict nor are they the ones resorting to terrorism.



sums up the ignorance of the whole matter, shown by zionists.

[sickofyou]

I suppoet Israel in many ways one nation are they and we&#39;ve all become a part of her, hey doe&#39;s sharon have any; or empty like this air ibreath?.

Dont ask a female to stay&#33; Allways tell &#39;em to get the fuck-out. PLEAD with her anytime, just idont want to? Dash Dart WALK away&#33; think folly... and Cry. But only give a smile to terror-ist?&#33;

THOUGH I must say why?...do you believe her (the mangled women) of a holy/war. Twix theyre some bloodless cowards in-deed. The so called PALS of anation&#33; WHo we help established?

Beware he is Zion-- not a truth, or reason for it so. &#39;Ye shall have no, other gods before me". A lesson you still cant recieve&#33; GIVE back to me.?
DO YOU want a bullllet in the head(do samething)...deserve It.
-PGSS ?&#33;

;( no further comment—shared. sick