"Dear White Feminists: Quit goddamn fucking up"

[Aristophenes McTwitch]

A great article from a non-white feminist woman, She greatly helps points out many wrongs of the modern feminist movement of today:

I'm not going to post the whole thing, but here's an excerpt:

http://dearwhitefeminists.wordpress.com/


I’m sick of this cycle. I’m sick of seeing white women dismiss the concerns of women of color. I’m sick of our self-righteous claims of inclusivity while we marginalize the voices of women of color when they speak out. We marginalize them if they do it with anger, or do it in the wrong way, or do it while disagreeing with us, or #%[email protected] do it at all. I’m sick of us exercising our white privilege and then accusing our sisters of color of causing divisiveness when they refuse to submit to our racism. Mostly it’s unintentional racism by white women who want to believe that we are saving the world. But we are not. We’re oppressing and silencing the very people we talk so eloquently about being allies with. I’m sick of seeing so many of us refuse to take a stand for fear of alienating our white sisters.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Mainstream feminism is dominated by white petit-bourgeois women. Women of color and/or working class women, especially the poorest working class women, are ignored.

[Fourth Internationalist]

That article makes no sense at all. Even modern/liberal feminists are not racists. And yeah, calling them that won't help.

[Vanilla]

That article makes no sense at all. Even modern/liberal feminists are not racists. And yeah, calling them that won't help.

You'd be surprised at the amount of racists who are the mainstream feminists today. They may not be outright, overtly racist, but a lot of them ignore what women of color feel for their precious white feelings. I've seen it happen before. One time an Indian woman was explaining how white women wearing the Bindi was cultural appropriation, and a bunch of white women got angry and said that it was discriminating against them. I've seen white feminists tell WoC to stop complaining about racism because it "takes the focus off of what we're fighting for." Of course, these are just things I've seen happen on tumblr blogs, but I imagine it would be similar with feminists in real life.

[#FF0000]

That article makes no sense at all. Even modern/liberal feminists are not racists. And yeah, calling them that won't help.

Well I mean, the blog links to a lot of other blogs and news stories with feminists saying or doing things the author considers a little messed up. Maybe you should look into that to understand why the author feels like people are dropping the ball, here?

[Fourth Internationalist]

You'd be surprised at the amount of racists who are the mainstream feminists today. They may not be outright, overtly racist, but a lot of them ignore what women of color feel for their precious white feelings. I've seen it happen before. One time an Indian woman was explaining how white women wearing the Bindi was cultural appropriation, and a bunch of white women got angry and said that it was discriminating against them. I've seen white feminists tell WoC to stop complaining about racism because it "takes the focus off of what we're fighting for." Of course, these are just things I've seen happen on tumblr blogs, but I imagine it would be similar with feminists in real life.

I don't doubt there are those that ignore race issues, but the article simply calls all feminists fuck-ups (and implies racism) if they're white. That is racism on the part of the person who wrote the article.

[bcbm]

I don't doubt there are those that ignore race issues, but the article simply calls all feminists fuck-ups (and implies racism) if they're white.

um actually it lists a bunch of specific examples and in particular calls out 'mainstream white feminists,' while also pointing out that woc feminist bloggers have been saying these specific things and complaining about more generalized racism and that maybe it would make sense to listen to them. the generalization of 'white feminists' is hyperbole in that it isn't saying everyone is necessarily a fuck up racist, but that this is a common concern that needs to be addressed. reading comprehension 101


That is racism on the part of the person who wrote the article.

white on white racism, the scourge of the internet

seriously i think 'anti-white racism' gets talked about more here than on stormfront

[Crixus]

The issue surrounds a WOC feminist speaking at a conference and then a little later a white feminist published a paper with some of the same ideas. They think the white feminist stole the WOC feminists ideas and this is racist.

http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/if-its-stealing-youd-better-prove-it-on-amanda-marcotte-bfp-and-alternet/

[Vanilla]

The issue surrounds a WOC feminist speaking at a conference and then a little later a white feminist published a paper with some of the same ideas. They think the white feminist stole the WOC feminists ideas and this is racist.

http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2008/04/09/if-its-stealing-youd-better-prove-it-on-amanda-marcotte-bfp-and-alternet/

Well I don't know if she stole it from the WoC, but that brings up an interesting point about how things written by WoC are sometimes ignored and pushed aside while when a white person writes it, it becomes popular (like the article posted by the OP). WoC feminists have been saying for a long time how white feminism again and again screws up and is racist, and it is only fitting how an article by a white woman addressing it becomes popular.

[homegrown terror]

the most powerful group WITHIN an oppressed group will very often marginalise the needs of others if it benefits their goals, much like how many LGBT activists will, when pressured, throw the T under the bus to protect the L, G and B. it's fucked up and wrong. we need to ALL work together to stamp out every form of discrimination, not just the ones we relate to the most.

[Fourth Internationalist]

the generalization of 'white feminists' is hyperbole in that it isn't saying everyone is necessarily a fuck up racist, but that this is a common concern that needs to be addressed. reading comprehension 101

It is, indeed, an issue that needs to be addressed, but simply addressing the cause of the problem at women for no other reason than because they are white is not the way to go about it, as this person did.


white on white racism, the scourge of the internet

seriously i think 'anti-white racism' gets talked about more here than on stormfrontI don't think the person is racist, but the language itself is and thus it should be avoided by all leftists.

[bcbm]

It is, indeed, an issue that needs to be addressed, but simply addressing the cause of the problem at women for no other reason than because they are white is not the way to go about it, as this person did.

but that is not how they went about it, there are a bunch of specific examples and in particular it calls out 'mainstream white feminists,' for specific actions while also pointing out that woc feminist bloggers have been saying these specific things and complaining about more generalized racism and that maybe it would make sense to listen to them. they are not being addressed 'because they are white' they are being addressed because they are saying ignorant shit.


I don't think the person is racist, but the language itself is

no

[Il Medico]

the most powerful group WITHIN an oppressed group will very often marginalise the needs of others if it benefits their goals, much like how many LGBT activists will, when pressured, throw the T under the bus to protect the L, G and B. it's fucked up and wrong. we need to ALL work together to stamp out every form of discrimination, not just the ones we relate to the most.
This is kinda off topic, but I'd like to mention that, at least from my experiences within the queer community, the B and T are often in the same boat when it comes to discrimination from the L and G. Often for pretty much for the same reasons too (i.e They are viewed as trying to 'get out of' being gay).

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

This is kinda off topic, but I'd like to mention that, at least from my experiences within the queer community, the B and T are often in the same boat when it comes to discrimination from the L and G. Often for pretty much for the same reasons too (i.e They are viewed as trying to 'get out of' being gay).
I have to agree. I've received just as much crap from some lesbians and gays for being bisexual as I have for being transgender.

[Hexen]

Mainstream feminism is dominated by white petit-bourgeois women. Women of color and/or working class women, especially the poorest working class women, are ignored.

Yep the mainstream feminist movement is simply about petite-bourgeois or bourgeois women "fighting for equal rights" to own businesses or to be wealthy capitalists themselves that control and own the means of production basically which in turn what petite/bourgeois men fear themselves therefore this is mostly where the original backlash against feminism came from.

[Fourth Internationalist]

but that is not how they went about it, there are a bunch of specific examples and in particular it calls out 'mainstream white feminists,' for specific actions while also pointing out that woc feminist bloggers have been saying these specific things and complaining about more generalized racism and that maybe it would make sense to listen to them. they are not being addressed 'because they are white' they are being addressed because they are saying ignorant shit.

This person clearly addressesd the problem at white feminist. I am not doubt that ignoring racial issues exists in the feminist community, but this person assumed that all those ignorant people are all while feminists. Why do you agree it is all white feminists? I think the people ignoring the issues are usually upperclass feminists, regardless of race.

[Quail]

This person clearly addressesd the problem at white feminist. I am not doubt that ignoring racial issues exists in the feminist community, but this person assumed that all those ignorant people are all while feminists. Why do you agree it is all white feminists? I think the people ignoring the issues are usually upperclass feminists, regardless of race.
It probably isn't all white feminists, but I can see how white feminists might overlook the needs and grievances of non-white feminists in exactly the same way that men overlook the needs and grievances of women in the anarchist movement (for example). That is, it's easier to either not notice or brush off issues or struggles that don't directly affect you.

[Comrade #138672]

I don't doubt there are those that ignore race issues, but the article simply calls all feminists fuck-ups (and implies racism) if they're white. That is racism on the part of the person who wrote the article.You can't equate anti-white racism (racism against a hegemonic group) with other forms of racism (racism against oppressed groups).

Defending white people against "racism" usually ends up being racist towards non-white people.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Mainstream feminism is dominated by white petit-bourgeois women. Women of color and/or working class women, especially the poorest working class women, are ignored.

This is sadly so true. Feminism is most effective when it is the right mixture of inclusive of all women, but has an undertone of class basis. Certainly, currently there is a lot of 'bullshit' feminism by self-righteous, middle class women/girls who are worlds apart from the working class, and their demands/actions reflect that.

[Comrade #138672]

This is sadly so true. Feminism is most effective when it is the right mixture of inclusive of all women, but has an undertone of class basis. Certainly, currently there is a lot of 'bullshit' feminism by self-righteous, middle class women/girls who are worlds apart from the working class, and their demands/actions reflect that.I wouldn't necessarily call it "bullshit" Feminism. Even though they are less oppressed than working class women, they still experience oppression from the patriarchy. Yet, because of their class relations, they are not able to see as clearly how the patriarchy is related to Capitalism, so they end up being bourgeois reformists. Of course, it is a dead-end, but their motivation is, at least to some extent, sincere.

This is probably why you put "bullshit" between quotes, but I think it is still important to recognize that their struggle is not completely a farce. It is not part of our general struggle, but still a real struggle.

[Fourth Internationalist]

It probably isn't all white feminists, but I can see how white feminists might overlook the needs and grievances of non-white feminists in exactly the same way that men overlook the needs and grievances of women in the anarchist movement (for example). That is, it's easier to either not notice or brush off issues or struggles that don't directly affect you.

This, except I don't think it's necessarily those who are white. I think it's more likely those who are upper-middle class who ignore the racial issues, and probably most other issues to other than a few feminist issues.

[Fourth Internationalist]

You can't equate anti-white racism (racism against a hegemonic group) with other forms of racism (racism against oppressed groups).

Well, you can in some cases. Like, say there is two people and one is black and hates white people, and the other is white an hates black people, I don't look at one as better. Yes, systematic racism is MUCH more against non-whites, but that is not what I was referring to. Racist language is never good, and one type is not 'less bad' than another.


Defending white people against "racism" usually ends up being racist towards non-white people.

Well, no, because when white nationalists, for example, talk about 'racism' against whites, 99% of it is not actually racist at all. But when there is a case of racism or racist language, it is still appropriate as socialists to oppose such things.

[bcbm]

This person clearly addressesd the problem at white feminist. I am not doubt that ignoring racial issues exists in the feminist community, but this person assumed that all those ignorant people are all while feminists. Why do you agree it is all white feminists?

like i said, 'hyperbole'


Well, you can in some cases. Like, say there is two people and one is black and hates white people, and the other is white an hates black people, I don't look at one as better. Yes, systematic racism is MUCH more against non-whites, but that is not what I was referring to. Racist language is never good, and one type is not 'less bad' than another.

this seems to be imagining that everything is equal when it isnt

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I wouldn't necessarily call it "bullshit" Feminism. Even though they are less oppressed than working class women, they still experience oppression from the patriarchy. Yet, because of their class relations, they are not able to see as clearly how the patriarchy is related to Capitalism, so they end up being bourgeois reformists. Of course, it is a dead-end, but their motivation is, at least to some extent, sincere.

This is probably why you put "bullshit" between quotes, but I think it is still important to recognize that their struggle is not completely a farce. It is not part of our general struggle, but still a real struggle.

No you're right, it's not a farce per se. The persecution they face is real but it's just fucking frustrating; Barack Obama says something about gay marriage so he must support it so he must be a feminist so, y'know, if we were Americans we'd have to vote for him. That sort of bullshit, almost apolitical thinking really pisses me off. That's where the 'bullshit' bit comes from.

[homegrown terror]

it's a serious mistake to support any reactionary politician just because he happens to champion a particular cause of yours. remember, for every "good" act a reactionary commits, there are ten, a hundred, or a thousand far more insidious acts you have to wrap yourself around to support him.