Ukraine unhappy with capitalism

[cullinane]

Pravda. 3 December 2001. Less than a half of Ukrainian population would
vote now for the country's sovereignty.

It has been 10 years since the all-Ukrainian referendum about
sovereignty and the ntroduction of the post of president was carried
out. Ten years ago, about 95 percent of the voters were for Ukrainian
independence.

And how today does the situation look?

Recently, the Democratic Initiatives Fund, a Ukrainian program of market
reforms, and the SOTSIS firm have carried out a poll among 1,800 adults.

Only 48 percent of Ukrainians would support the idea of Ukraine's
sovereignty if such a referendum were carried out today.

While 27 percent of Ukrainians would vote against Ukranian independence,
10 percent of the people would not take part in the referendum at all,
and 15 percent could not determine their position.

According to 35 percent of people who took part in the poll, the changes
that took place in Ukraine since 1991 were rather negative for Ukrainian
citizens. Twenty-two percent of the people suppose that the changes were
positive, while 43 percent of the people could not determine their view
on this question.

However, while answering the question if the system existing up to the
year 1991 (in the USSR) should have been changed, 42 percent of the
people said "yes," while 38 percent of the people did not agree and 20
percent could not answer this question at all.

Less than a half of the asked people -- 40 percent --suppose the
democracy chosen by Ukraine is the best form of ruling.

Twenty-three percent did not consider this way to be the best, and 36
percent of the asked people evaded the question.

According to most Ukrainians, the trouble is probably in the local
peculiarities of democracy's functioning, because 73 percent of the
people who took part in the poll are not satisfied with how democracy
functions in Ukraine, while only 4 percent are, and 23 percent hesitated
to answer.

While answering the question about which of the two Ukrainian presidents
was the best, 45 percent of the respondents answered "both of them."
Fifteen percent of the polled people said that Leonid Kravchuk was
better than Leonid Kuchma, while 12 percent of the people said vice
versa.

Only six percent of the people suppose both of them were good for
Ukraine.

The distress of many people in Ukraine is obvious.

According to some data, about 83 percent of the population consider
themselves to be poor or even beggars.

They are sure this was caused by the destruction of the USSR.

[Capitalist]

Capatilism is not oppressive. Unless capitalism is funded with slave or poorly paid labor, does it become oppressive.

I know nothing about the Ukraine - but from reading your statisitics - the problem seems to be a democratic problem, not a capitalistic problem.

[cullinane]

Hello Capitalist,

The strategists of capital are facing a completely different situation from that which they had expected when the old USSR collapsed. They thought there would be a smooth transition to capitalism. That is not what they are getting. The West has burnt its fingers. The collapse in "confidence" is expressed in the eloquent language of hard cash. They will not invest. Their policy is: No money for the former Soviets unless you stick to the programme of reforms
When Clinton went to Moscow to inform the Russian people that they must not choose the "easy way"--that is, going back to a nationalised planned economy--but must choose the hard way instead: the road of "market reform". That is, he told the Russian people that they must, in the respectful opinion of the West, have more of the same. They must pursue exactly the same policies that produced the present catastrophe in the first place.

The reason for the alarm in the boardrooms and cabinets of the West is clear. The bourgeois can see that, with the collapse of the attempt to move towards capitalism, the possibility arises of going back to some form of nationalised, centrally planned economy. Such a prospect fills them with dread, not only because of what it would mean for Russia, but because of its impact on a world scale, beginning with the so-called emerging (or rather, submerging) economies. The world crisis of capitalism is expressed in the dominoes-like effect of the economic crisis that began in Asia, spread to Russia and now threatens all of Latin America, particularly Argentina. Certain governments (Malaysia) are attempting to protect themselves by introducing measures of state control and protectionism that go against the free market policies imposed by imperialism through the IMF. This is only an anticipation of the inevitable reaction against the free market, that will develop as the crisis unfolds. The strategists of capital see this as a mortal threat to their system, and they are not mistaken.
The pessimism of the Western bourgeois leaps out from the pages of all their most serious journals. The Financial Times moans: "Russia has suffered a defeat that could turn into a disaster, not just for Russia, but for the world."

Capitalism in Russia has proved totally incapable of developing the productive forces. This is the key to understanding the present situation. Marx and Engels explained that the viability of any regime depends on its ability to develop the productive forces. For the last 10 years we have seen a massive fall in production. At one pont, around 1998 it was over 60 per cent. That is unlike any similar collapse in history, far greater than the 30 per cent fall in America after 1929. It can only be compared to a catastrophic defeat, or rather two defeats, in war. The West dispatched its economic witch doctors to practice their vicious experiments on the Russian people.

The Soviet Union, with all its faults and defects, previously produced most of the food and basic goods necessary for its people. Now the entire relation of Russia with the rest of the world has changed. Russia now imports more than half its food. In the case of Moscow the figure is nearer 80 per cent. Under such circumstances, the collapse of the rouble spells dire consequences for the people of Russia.

Output is about half what it was when communism collapsed. Things are much worse in rural areas and large chunks of the economy have been operating on the basis of barter.

[Guest]

All the Ukraine is going through is growing pains. The newborn United States went through the same exact thing as the Ukraine is going through right now. The only difference is that the American people were strong enough to see it through to what we enjoy today.

-Capatilist

[Supermodel]

There is something wrong with this picture. We all beleived that the Ukraine would be the best of the new independent nations, being the "breadbasket of the USSR" as well as being industrialized.

We can only assume that leadership hsa failed the people since Ukraine ought to be doing a lot better.

It's now up to the people of the Ukraine to get going on building prosperity. I wish them good luck.

[Guest]

Assumptions are often incorrect. Capatilism provides a mechanism to easily and quickly fix methods that do not work without the burdensome restraints of socailism.

-Capatilist

[Moskitto]

With the arguement of "Growing Pains" you can whisk away anything historical. You can even argue that 2 "democracies" have never gone to war even though there are 16 examples of democracies going to war.

[RedRevolutionary87]

to Capitalist, capitalism leads to poorlty paid and eventualy slave labour, it canot be prevented in a capitalist statye only slowed down

[MindCrime]

The American people were not "stronger" than the Ukranians, they were more agressive. US Imperialist policy is what provides them with such staggering wealth, not strength and faith in a free market economy. The money has to come from somewhere, and unfortunatly, it is at the expense of the third world.

[Nateddi]

OMG you cappies leave this board!

I was born in ukraine, and moved to the US in 1995. It was a living hell after the Soviet Union collapsed. Its fucking hell there. All my friends and family friends that could not move out are in fucking hell. No electricity, food is expensive, extreme inflation, Ukraine is now quite a capitalist force, not american-style oppressive one, however indonesia-style cheap labour one. The second largest city, Kharkov (where I am from) has gone to shit. No electricity in many places, no maintanance. A friend of my mothers sees people commit suicide jumping from her 15 story building, its terrible there. This shit has been going on and getting worse in the second half of the 90's.