Thatcher is dead!

[LeonJWilliams]

Thatcher is finally dead! Just came in.

[LeonJWilliams]

Baroness Thatcher died this morning following a stroke, her spokesman Lord Bell said. More details soon from (the Guardian)

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I hope it was painful.
Good to see that horrible piece of shit gone.

[LeonJWilliams]

A vile woman, Queen of privatisation and screwing the working class. Complete wanker, shame her death took so long to come about.

[RedAnarchist]

Selfish arsewipe could have waited a few days. My dad's birthday is on the 13th, it would have been a great birthday present for him.

They better not give her a state funeral. Damn Tories are in power, so you just know they'll try and do it.

[Halert]

The time to dance has come.
youtube.com/watch?v=1bJbeeKBPCU

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Who says this won't be a month long celebration?

[brigadista]

dont hold your breath -maybe a state funeral - glad that horror has gone

[rednordman]

I don't want celebrated a pensioners death as that would be horrible, but she ruined the nation in the long run and is responsible for creating a society where people get persecuted for their political beliefs. But it will be hard to express that over the next month as we will get bombarded by streams and streams of propaganda making her out to be the messiah. Worst thing is, we are going to have to pay for her state funeral, and i bet in true thatchite fashion, we all have to work on that day, when the wealthy will be able to have the day off.

[Narodnik]

http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/9/11/1347370177821/T-shirts-reading-Thatcher-009.jpg

[RedAnarchist]

WE'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE A PARTY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtwavcblPzo

[Aurora]

meh

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Not going to change anything, but I'll still be having a beer tonight.

[F9]

couldnt be on uni time so hopefully we get more time off?damn!!!i hope queen is next and on exams period so we all pass(please please please please, i will be a good boy i promise)

[Eleutheromaniac]

Does anybody have official statistics and facts about her that they could list off for me? I know she's not popular here, but I figured this could serve as a forum to discuss how bad she really was without becoming a big "I hate that witch" circle-jerk.

[bricolage]

tbh this doesn't change anything and tbh tbh callaghan was the first thatcherite but still... orgreave, brixton, hillsborough, h-block, wapping etc etc. hold tight ian bone though, officially out a job, those stickers are relics now.

[F9]

Does anybody have official statistics and facts about her that they could list off for me? I know she's not popular here, but I figured this could serve as a forum to discuss how bad she really was without becoming a big "I hate that witch" circle-jerk.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/18/seven-deadly-sins-thatcher-tories-football

fucking touched football!!!!how dares?!?!

[rednordman]

Does anybody have official statistics and facts about her that they could list off for me? I know she's not popular here, but I figured this could serve as a forum to discuss how bad she really was without becoming a big "I hate that witch" circle-jerk.Its a fucking big list my friend.

[Brutus]

How ironic that the state is handling her funeral.*
She'd have wanted it privatised*

[Blake's Baby]

So who's going to Traf Square?

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/10/298639.html

http://libcom.org/forums/events-and-announcements/party-trafalgar-square-london-when-maggie-thatcher-dies

I really want to but I'm not sure I can...


Witch is dead circle-jerk? To a generation of politicos in Britain, she's about as bad as Nixon and Kissenger rolled into one. Oh, frabjous day, halloo hallay, we chortled in our joy.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Celebrating someone's death seems a bit morbid to me.

She was, however, a phenomenally vile woman and really we should be putting in effort to disseminate her legacy as one of the most worker-hating, out of touch pieces of shit to ever grace political office in this country.

[Luís Henrique]

So she is dead.

Wait, that is what happens to humans, isn't it? Why are we having a personality cult in reverse mode?

Did we kill her? Did the working class kill her? Is her death going to change anything in the policies of the British State?

Or was it just what it looks like, a retired lady dying of natural causes?

Come on, sometimes we are just so silly.:rolleyes:

Luís Henrique

[Narodnik]

Celebrating someone's death seems a bit morbid to me.
I'm sure we will all agree that destroying people's lives is much more 'morbid' then celebrating someone's death, and Thatcher did a lot of that.

[brigadista]

xvX_5ym_ajI

[Dear Leader]

1bJbeeKBPCU

[RedAnarchist]

I've just been to the shop, with my Liverpool shirt on, to get some Guinness. I thought it would be appropriate to celebrate this news with a nice Irish beverage.

[Tenka]

And here I was thinking evil never dies! Granted it is folly to attribute neo-liberalism to individual politicians, she was a little more than a mere puppet for the parasitic class.

edit: Frankly I am surprised she was not secretly fashioned into an immortal cyborg. She'd have had the money for it.

[Pirate Utopian]

RIP Thatcher. Biggest influence on British punk ever.

[Devrim]

Celebrating someone's death seems a bit morbid to me.


Or was it just what it looks like, a retired lady dying of natural causes.

I agree with these sentiments. I think some of the stuff on here is a bit sick. I can understand how there are people who hated Thatcher, and would understand how those people would hate her. However, when people who weren't even born at the time, and who live in different countries are so pleased about it, it seems a bit strange to me.

Devrim

[Crux]

'When Margaret Thatcher was asked about her greatest achievement, she promptly answered: "New Labour." And she was right: her triumph was that even her political enemies adopted her basic economic policies.' - Žižek.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I agree with these sentiments. I think some of the stuff on here is a bit sick. I can understand how there are people who hated Thatcher, and would understand how those people would hate her. However, when people who weren't even born at the time, and who live in different countries are so pleased about it, it seems a bit strange to me.

Devrim

It's not as if the people who weren't born then didn't have to go through shit that was left from Thatchers' time.

[Devrim]

It's not as if the people who weren't born then didn't have to go through shit that was left from Thatchers' time.

Quite possibly, but as you have you location down as the Netherlands, I doubt that you did, and I presume that the people posting on this thread from Cyprus, or Bosnia didn't either.

Devrim

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Quite possibly, but as you have you location down as the Netherlands, I doubt that you did, and I presume that the people posting on this thread from Cyprus, or Bosnia didn't either.

Devrim

I have family in Britain and I know what shit time they had back then.
My current location does not really tell my entire background, now does it?
Not to mention that many conservatives and libertarians still see her as an inspiration, world-wide.

[Narodnik]

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/18914

[Tenka]

Quite possibly, but as you have you location down as the Netherlands, I doubt that you did, and I presume that the people posting on this thread from Cyprus, or Bosnia didn't either.

Devrim

Can't we have our international class empathy? Feel the hurt of our class across time and space? Anyway, as an individual Thatcher made herself symbolic of a Capitalism that has stopped pretending to care. And she died of a stroke; it's not as if the heating to her flat (or mansion?) was cut during winter and she froze to death as from time to time befalls old people of a lower class.

[bricolage]

i think the facts are,

1. for those that were not alive at the time there is an inherited memory that is still very strong.
2. for those that were alive there is obviously a real memory.
3. thatcher was just callaghan on speed.
4. thatcherism was more than one person and didn't end when she left office. ed milliband's the same.
5. she stopped being relevant years ago and her dying changes nothing.
6. the whole 'it's insensitive/morbid' to celebrate her death is a bit of a cop-out, people don't get some elevated status cos they died. also the right spent the last month celebrating the death of chavez (not that he wasn't a prick too) so pretty hypocritical on their part.
7. might as well let people have one day of partying, even if tomorrow we just as fucked as we were this morning.

[Devrim]

I have family in Britain and I know what shit time they had back then.
My current location does not really tell my entire background, now does it?
Not to mention that many conservatives and libertarians still see her as an inspiration, world-wide.

No, it doesn't tell your entire background. My current location tells nothing about mine.

As you say it did have a massive effect on people. I can understand people who lived through that being pleased. She was somebody who lots of people deeply hated.

I find the idea though of people with no real connection to those events 'celebrating' a bit disturbing.

Devrim

[Crux]

Yeah, my comrade Stephen Jolly had this to say, which pretty much echoes Žižek's sentiment:
As someone who was politicised in the struggles against the horrendous Thatcher government in the 1980s, I don't feel comfortable with the 'witch' analogies tonight - unfortunately lots of 'Thatchers' since then, mainly men: Blair, Clinton, Hawke, Keating etc

[brigadista]

i lived through it ...

9t4-zDem1Sk

[l'Enfermé]

While I do agree with comrade Luís Henrique, I can't deny that I wasn't gleefully smiling while reading the news.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I too was gleefully smiling. Don't get me (and I presume others sharing the 'morbid' thing are the same) wrong, I despise what she did and what her legacy has continued to do to workers in Britain.

I just find it crazy to celebrate someone's death. A gleeful smile may be a sign of relief, but it's hardly a victory worth 'dancing on someone's grave' for, or organising a public party.

It's nothing to do with attitudes to the person herself, i'm sure we can all unite in our hatred of what she did and what she represents, but let's be honest, her death changes nothing and politically, she as a person died a long time ago; and her political ideas unfortunately live on after she has died. Her death really is something of an irrelevance, just a chance for people to wear their tribal politics on their sleeves for a lil' bit.

[hatzel]

Awaiting Thatcher's death has always been an ersatz for awaiting the death of Thatcherism, and those who most enthusiastically celebrate her passing will be the very same who have already given up on the possibility of ever defeating her legacy e.g. TUC dinosaurs.

Oh yeah, I went there. I went right there, you all saw it...

[l'Enfermé]

No, it doesn't tell your entire background. My current location tells nothing about mine.

As you say it did have a massive effect on people. I can understand people who lived through that being pleased. She was somebody who lots of people deeply hated.

I find the idea though of people with no real connection to those events 'celebrating' a bit disturbing.

Devrim
I don't think there is anything disturbing about the solidarity of Bosnian or Dutch or Cypriot workers with their comrades in the UK.

[Crux]

And there's already been condolences from the Swedish Minister for Enterprise (https://twitter.com/annieloof/status/321233705479856128)who considered Thatcher an idol. And rightly so.
IlkXQm7tSCY

[Collectorgeneral]

Unfortunately while Thatcher's death will, in all certainty, do little (if anything at all) to combat the spread of Thatcherism here in Estonia or anywhere else for that matter, we can still rejoice that the hag herself is no longer around at least.

[Philosophos]

Finally... I hope she goes to hell... Or a communist heaven. Same thing for her...

[Durruti's friend]

I just listened to this when I saw this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8FQTucDxi8
Heh. They both dead now.

I neither lived through that period nor do I live in Britain but I can't help myself from having some sort of morbid happiness at this moment. :cool:

[Blake's Baby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIDdvnHQrjk

I did. Thatcher is probably the individual that had the most immediate effect on my politicisation as an angry teenager.

There was a thread around September (?) last year (around the time of the 'Thatcher's Death Party Kits' at the TUC conference, or something?) where it was suggested that some people (and I definitely think I'm one of them) need to get over it and stop acting like trauma victims.

I think it's a reasonable point. As long as it's actually accepted that some people really do feel like trauma victims. The legacy of her government (to be sure, persuing policies developed under the previous Wilson/Callaghan administration; to be sure, continued by her successors, Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron) is a blight, a trauma, that will take more than a generation to heal.

Is a confused old woman dying a cause for celebration? No, not really, confused old women die quite often. Did we make it news? No, we didn't. Do some people feel a sense of relief and happiness now she's gone? I certainly do.

[rednordman]

Fuck all this "no reason to be happy" bullshit. Look, her supporters are going to be hurting right now, regardless of how and why she died. They all celebrated like they won a war when the USSR collapse, but lets face it, they had FUCK ALL to do with that.

[Blake's Baby]

Well, exactly, we all know that was David Hasselhof.

[MP5]

How ironic that the state is handling her funeral.*
She'd have wanted it privatised*

Some comrades should have a nice private funeral for her instead :D . Right after they put a steak through her heart and cut off her ugly now rotting head to make sure she doesn't come back as even more of a vampire then she was in life. Everyone could get drunk and have turns taking a shit on her and then staple the Starry Plough to her coffin :grin:

Ah tis a great day for freedom indeed.

[Blake's Baby]

This floated across my Facebook page:

"Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."

[Questionable]

"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Part of me understands why Leftists are running around like Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz singing "ding dong the witch is dead"

The other part of me thinks about how she was just a senile old bat when she died. She was utterly harmless.

[Sinister Intents]

Weed flavored vodka time! ! !

[Paul Pott]

Big deal. An old woman died.

[IrishWorker]

Just a pity they never got her in Brighton. Gona be celebrating this great news with a few good friends and a few cold ones very shortly. However she died it certainly was not prolonged enough nor painful enough.

"Our revenge will be the laughter of our children"
Comrade Bobby Sands.

[ed miliband]

Fuck all this "no reason to be happy" bullshit. Look, her supporters are going to be hurting right now, regardless of how and why she died. They all celebrated like they won a war when the USSR collapse, but lets face it, they had FUCK ALL to do with that.

they're not hurting at all though, this is a wonderful moment for them; here's an opportunity to celebrate thatcher's legacy for a couple of weeks, if not a month, and to tie that in with their agenda. it's come at an almost perfect moment for them.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

No, it doesn't tell your entire background. My current location tells nothing about mine.

Accusing people of having no possible "connection" to Thatcher's policies by virtue of their location alone is pretty rude, though.

[melvin]

There are a lot of equally bad or even worse politicians out there whose deaths I didn't care about, and I don't see why this would be different.

[Edelweiss]

s4BCUWopQQ4

[B5C]

Ding Dong the Witch is Dead.

[l'Enfermé]

FkTzj0hiSng

[Q]

http://i.imgur.com/WjnAO4j.jpg

[rednordman]

they're not hurting at all though, this is a wonderful moment for them; here's an opportunity to celebrate thatcher's legacy for a couple of weeks, if not a month, and to tie that in with their agenda. it's come at an almost perfect moment for them.more like 2 weeks for the nation to realize exactly how wrong she was.

[red flag over teeside]

Thatcher was able to do so much damage during the eightees due to the uselessness and even downright sabotage by both Labour Party and the Unions. While part of me is glad to see her gone the rational part of me sees that her death will make no difference to how the class struggle in the UK will be carried out.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Good night sweet princess

[Wings Of Redemption]

I've been waiting for this day for too long, this calls for a celebration...:grin:

[Tuggback]

Good riddance *****! We will unfortunately deal with your crap for a long time.

[Rousedruminations]

Finally:grin:

[Goblin]

She will be reincarnated as a coal miner.

[Rousedruminations]

WTF...


“In my lifetime, all the problems have come from mainland Europe, and all the solutions have come from the English-speaking nations across the world,” she told the annual Conservative Party conference in 1999.- Thatcher

[Ismail]

THE INTERNATIONAL MARXIST-LENINIST STRUGGLE HAS SUFFERED AN IRREVOCABLE just kidding yay.

Since I'm an American, she came across as similar to Reagan if he were to have had no charm and was unable to not act like an asshole whenever he appeared in public. Naturally, American conservatives thought she was glorious.

[piet11111]

Quite possibly, but as you have you location down as the Netherlands, I doubt that you did, and I presume that the people posting on this thread from Cyprus, or Bosnia didn't either.

Devrim

We will abandon internationalism straight away then.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I'll robot, moonwalk and waltz on the grave of Thatcherism but am too young to really have built up any personal hatred of the woman herself.

[dez]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette


News of Margaret Thatcher's death this morning instantly and predictably gave rise to righteous sermons on the evils of speaking ill of her. British Labour MP Tom Watson decreed: "I hope that people on the left of politics respect a family in grief today." Following in the footsteps of Santa Claus, Steve Hynd quickly compiled a list of all the naughty boys and girls "on the left" who dared to express criticisms of the dearly departed Prime Minister, warning that he "will continue to add to this list throughout the day". Former Tory MP Louise Mensch, with no apparent sense of irony, invoked precepts of propriety to announce: "Pygmies of the left so predictably embarrassing yourselves, know this: not a one of your leaders will ever be globally mourned like her."

This demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure's death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power. "Respecting the grief" of Thatcher's family members is appropriate if one is friends with them or attends a wake they organize, but the protocols are fundamentally different when it comes to public discourse about the person's life and political acts. I made this argument at length last year when Christopher Hitchens died and a speak-no-ill rule about him was instantly imposed (a rule he, more than anyone, viciously violated), and I won't repeat that argument today; those interested can read my reasoning here.

But the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims about Thatcher was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be quite consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms.

Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). And as my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne detailed last year, "across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown."

To demand that all of that be ignored in the face of one-sided requiems to her nobility and greatness is a bit bullying and tyrannical, not to mention warped. As David Wearing put it this morning in satirizing these speak-no-ill-of-the-deceased moralists: "People praising Thatcher's legacy should show some respect for her victims. Tasteless." Tellingly, few people have trouble understanding the need for balanced commentary when the political leaders disliked by the west pass away. Here, for instance, was what the Guardian reported upon the death last month of Hugo Chavez:

To the millions who detested him as a thug and charlatan, it will be occasion to bid, vocally or discreetly, good riddance."

Nobody, at least that I know of, objected to that observation on the ground that it was disrespectful to the ability of the Chavez family to mourn in peace. Any such objections would have been invalid. It was perfectly justified to note that, particularly as the Guardian also explained that "to the millions who revered him – a third of the country, according to some polls – a messiah has fallen, and their grief will be visceral." Chavez was indeed a divisive and controversial figure, and it would have been reckless to conceal that fact out of some misplaced deference to the grief of his family and supporters. He was a political and historical figure and the need to accurately portray his legacy and prevent misleading hagiography easily outweighed precepts of death etiquette that prevail when a private person dies.

Exactly the same is true of Thatcher. There's something distinctively creepy - in a Roman sort of way - about this mandated ritual that our political leaders must be heralded and consecrated as saints upon death. This is accomplished by this baseless moral precept that it is gauche or worse to balance the gushing praise for them upon death with valid criticisms. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loathing Margaret Thatcher or any other person with political influence and power based upon perceived bad acts, and that doesn't change simply because they die. If anything, it becomes more compelling to commemorate those bad acts upon death as the only antidote against a society erecting a false and jingoistically self-serving history.

[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

And good riddance!

[Ismail]

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22062317) on Wikileaks making a whole lot of 1970's US diplomatic cables searchable:

Another cable, dated February 1975, from London sets out "some first impressions" of new leader of the Conservative Party, Margaret Thatcher, who died on Monday.

The diplomat wrote that "she has a quick, if not profound, mind, and works hard to master the most complicated brief".

She is "crisp and a trifle patronizing" with the media, but "honest and straight-forward" with her colleagues, "if not excessively considerate of their vanities", the diplomat wrote.

"The personification of a British middle class dream come true," she is the "genuine voice of a beleaguered bourgeoise [sic], anxious about its eroding economic power and determined to arrest society's seemingly inexorable trend towards collectivism", the cable said.

The diplomat noted she had "acquired a distinctively upper middle class personal image", which might damage her chances of becoming prime minister, but said she should not be underestimated.

[Quail]

Good riddance *****! We will unfortunately deal with your crap for a long time.
Still, there are plenty more valid criticisms than sexist slurs.

I can definitely see why Thatcher's death makes people feel like cracking open a beer, but at the same time, her ideas and her legacy are still alive even if she's dead and soon to be buried.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/57cb2a36318a27063af3d01165ca7f68/tumblr_mky50vw0bF1qmp13mo1_500.jpg

[Brutus]

- She will not have a state funeral but will be accorded the same status as Princess Diana and the Queen Mother

[Jolly Red Giant]

I can appreciate the venting of anger - but would argue that this topic does not warrant a thread on a left-wing internet forum.

[Ismail]

I can appreciate the venting of anger - but would argue that this topic does not warrant a thread on a left-wing internet forum.I don't see why. There's threads on all sorts of leaders who die, from Kim Jong Il to Chávez, from Reagan to Thatcher, to various personalities like Hobsbawm and whatnot. Admittedly they're not scenes of great theoretical insight, but it seems to be a pretty well-established tradition.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Have a little Irish ditty to celebrate the occasion. Because if you think she was bad to the British working class...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJh0m0E7Ozg

[Brutus]

Facebook is awash with anti thatcher statuses!
How beautiful

[Red Nightmare]

Ding Dong, the wicked witch is dead!

[B5C]

No state funeral.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/08/no-state-funeral-margaret-thatcher

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

Like Regan, or any leader of an imperialist country in this epoch, the sad thing is that she got to live out her demented days in peace. She was never brought to justice for her crimes against humanity, particularly the working class. And the class traitorous Laborites who advise caution can go fuck themselves. As if Thatcher ever used caution when attempting to ream the working class and the subjects of her realm. One can't say enough about her vicious rapacious behavior.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

They better not give her a state funeral. Damn Tories are in power, so you just know they'll try and do it.

I imagine if the working class were to give her a funeral parade, it'd look a little bit like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOEq-ImGWJ0

[Jolly Red Giant]

I don't see why. There's threads on all sorts of leaders who die, from Kim Jong Il to Chávez, from Reagan to Thatcher, to various personalities like Hobsbawm and whatnot. Admittedly they're not scenes of great theoretical insight, but it seems to be a pretty well-established tradition.
Wow - some of you people really don't get sarcasm - do you? :rolleyes:

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Do you want to know the only person I've come across so far that was sadden by Thatcher's death?

A British co-worker.

I should note the keyword is "worker"

[Princess Luna]

Wait, she was still alive? I thought she kicked the bucket years ago...

[LewisQ]

Thatcher's death is irrelevant, the battle to define her legacy is not. Her ideology remains triumphant. Let's look forward to dancing on its grave, not hers.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

If the portuguese prime-minister had resigned nobody would care...

[jamesx101]

.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

If the portuguese prime-minister had resigned nobody would care...

Some Portugese PM =/= the embodiment of neo-liberalism

Also what is up with your Portugese nationalism, jesus.

[MP5]

Big deal. An old woman died.

A old evil hag who caused untold misery upon the population of Britain and Ireland died. Not to mention her economic policies influenced todays conservatives and the conservatives over here up in mainland Canada miss her so much already that they would line up to rim her dead arsehole. Will her death change anything? Nope it won't but since i would rank her as even being worse then Regan (she was pretty much Britain's answer to Regan) i think it's a cause for celebration that she died. If i ever did believe in such silly notions as heaven and hell i would like to think that she is impaled on a red hot poker right now next to Hitler,Mussolini, Franco, Cromwell, and a few others ;)1 .


Just a pity they never got her in Brighton. Gona be celebrating this great news with a few good friends and a few cold ones very shortly. However she died it certainly was not prolonged enough nor painful enough.

"Our revenge will be the laughter of our children"
Comrade Bobby Sands.

Lol my friends status update this morning was something like "It's not about whether Thatcher is dead or not it's about how much she suffered" :laugh: .It's a pity she didn't die of stomach cancer in a place where there just happened to be a severe shortage of morphine :grin: . I think i may crack open a few cans to celebrate myself when i have my supper shortly.

[B5C]

Anybody what a music play list celebrating the death of Thatcher?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlkXQm7tSCY&list=RD02wcXi-VYy_Yw

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Some Portugese PM =/= the embodiment of neo-liberalism

Also what is up with your Portugese nationalism, jesus.
What's up with your anglocentrism?

[MP5]

Anybody what a music play list celebrating the death of Thatcher?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlkXQm7tSCY&list=RD02wcXi-VYy_Yw

I already posted Morrissey's Margaret on the guillotine to facebook when i first heard the news :grin:

Good playlist. I'll have to think of other songs that would be fitting.

[Comrade Alex]

Good riddance
I hope god punishes her

[Crixus]

Forgive me if I don't care.

[Q]

Good riddance
I hope god punishes her

A top comment on Youtube: "Thatchers been in hell for more than 20 minutes and she has already shut down 3 furnaces" :D

[l'Enfermé]

Good riddance *****! We will unfortunately deal with your crap for a long time.
Dude we don't do sexist slurs like ***** or **** on revleft. Consider this a verbal warning.

[MP5]

Forgive me if I don't care.

The apathy among the young crowd today is abit disconcerting i must say :sleep:

[B5C]

Dude we don't do sexist slurs like ***** or **** on revleft. Consider this a verbal warning.

I can see other women, but not even against Thatcher? I guess we shouldn't be posting all those anti-Thatcher music videos then. :(

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

What's up with your anglocentrism?

Oh yeah because I think Thatcher, whose policies reached far beyond Britain, is a little bit more important than some Portugese PM who didn't step down, I'm anglo-centrist.

Yup, yer got that right.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Oh yeah because I think Thatcher, whose policies reached far beyond Britain, is a little bit more important than some Portugese PM who didn't step down, I'm anglo-centrist.

Yup, yer got that right.
You called him 'some portugese pm' as if he's irrelevant. I'm pretty sure he's not irrelevant to the Portuguese. I also see it as reeking of Great Man theory when neoliberalism, even thatcherism, wasn't the work of one individual but a wider movement within the ruling classes (including the portuguese bourgeoisie). Thatcher dying is a great laugh for the folk in Britain, Ireland etc but not so much for the Portuguese so calling it 'nationalism' to focus more on the place you are immediately living in is a bit disengenuous.... probs not going to reply again in regards to this because it does seem like a silly argument to me. :P

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

You called him 'some portugese pm' as if he's irrelevant. I'm pretty sure he's not irrelevant to the Portuguese. I also see it as reeking of Great Man theory when neoliberalism, even thatcherism, wasn't the work of one individual but a wider movement within the ruling classes (including the portuguese bourgeoisie). Thatcher dying is a great laugh for the folk in Britain, Ireland etc but not so much for the Portuguese so calling it 'nationalism' to focus more on the place you are immediately living in is a bit disengenuous.... probs not going to reply again in regards to this because it does seem like a silly argument to me. :P

Hence why I said she was the embodiment of the upcoming neo-liberalism.
And yes I think compared to Thatcher, historically, he has a different role.
I don't see why you guys whine about us not giving as much attention to a Portugese PM if he had stepped down, he didn't so it's irrelevant rambling.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Northern Britain already hammered

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/northern-britain-already-hammered-2013040865062

[l'Enfermé]

I can see other women, but not even against Thatcher? I guess we shouldn't be posting all those anti-Thatcher music videos then. :(
Sexist or racist or homophobic slurs are just a no-go on RevLeft. Absolutely unacceptable. Youtube videos are an entirely different thing though. For example, we allow links to rap and hip hop songs, even though the lyrics are usually very misogynistic and full of various discriminatory epithets.

[Questionable]

So a Texas conservative politician just quotes Trotsky in reference to Thatcher's death...what the hell?


While many mourn, Baroness Thatcher reminded us “I fight on I fight to win.” The best way to honor Baroness Thatcher is to crush liberalism and sweep it into the dustbin of history. What are you doing this morning to defeat liberal politicians?

http://stockman.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/stockman-thatcher-would-want-us-to-fight-on-fight-to-win-and-crush

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Northern Britain already hammered

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/northern-britain-already-hammered-2013040865062

I'm surprised that North Ireland hasn't had a riot yet.

[homegrown terror]

finally, reagan's british mistress can kiss the fucking dirt.

[MP5]

Dude we don't do sexist slurs like ***** or **** on revleft. Consider this a verbal warning.

I am sorry but i have to take issue with this. While the word ***** and **** may have sexist connotations in this case knowone is using them to reference a woman so i don't see how it can be sexist.


I'm surprised that North Ireland hasn't had a riot yet.

I'm sure there will be a few old Loyalists pissed off tonight that their hero Thatcher is dead.

[slum]

you brits better brace yourselves for the reagan phenomenon- dying absolves politicians of every living sin

[Conscript]

A dead reactionary like her always makes my day. It was a nice monday :D


I am sorry but i have to take issue with this. While the word ***** and **** may have sexist connotations in this case knowone is using them to reference a woman so i don't see how it can be sexist.

It also references a dog.

[Goblin]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pixies/2013/4/8/1365442119811/Mikhail-Gorbachev-and-Mar-008.jpg

[Red Commissar]

I've been eye-rolling more with the lionization of her career as a "tough" leader, and people acting with shock if you say anything bad about her. I wonder where that memo was when Chavez died?

She was bad but her death doesn't really solve anything. I saw this bit from Billy Bragg (I know!) about this and I think it was relevant.


“This is not a time for celebration. The death of Margaret Thatcher is nothing more than a salient reminder of how Britain got into the mess that we are in today. Of why ordinary working people are no longer able to earn enough from one job to support a family; of why there is a shortage of decent affordable housing; of why domestic growth is driven by credit, not by real incomes; of why tax-payers are forced to top up wages; of why a spiteful government seeks to penalise the poor for having an extra bedroom; of why Rupert Murdoch became so powerful; of why cynicism and greed became the hallmarks of our society.

[Old Bolshie]

Although her death won't change anything this moment should be taken to remember her disastrous legacy which consequences certainly will surpass her life and British borders. She planted the seed of the crisis which we are facing today when she promoted the deregulation of the markets alongside Reagan through their neo-liberal policy of the 80's. She also dismembered the Unions and made of militarism one of the bastions of her populism.


You called him 'some portugese pm' as if he's irrelevant. I'm pretty sure he's not irrelevant to the Portuguese.

He actually is. The only thing that matters not only for Portuguese people but for all the other European people of Eurozone facing debt crisis is who is heading Europe, i.e Germany, right now. National Governments lost all of its autonomy and are nothing more than local governments right now.



If the portuguese prime-minister had resigned nobody would care...

I honestly feel that it would have the same relevance as Thatcher death: none. The Troika and the policy of austerity would remain here and the next PM who would be a "socialist" would be forced to follow the same austerity path as this one is doing but this time it would have a socialist rhetoric added to it.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

So a Texas conservative politician just quotes Trotsky in reference to Thatcher's death...what the hell?



http://stockman.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/stockman-thatcher-would-want-us-to-fight-on-fight-to-win-and-crush


I like how he talks about how awful liberalism is, then talks about what a hero Thatcher was.

[a_wild_MAGIKARP]

I don't live in Britain, and I wasn't alive at that time, but oh well.. party time!


A top comment on Youtube: "Thatchers been in hell for more than 20 minutes and she has already shut down 3 furnaces" :D
And most of the demons are already unemployed.:grin:


Selfish arsewipe could have waited a few days. My dad's birthday is on the 13th, it would have been a great birthday present for him.
I hope Bush will die on my birthday.:)

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

I like how he talks about how awful liberalism is, then talks about what a hero Thatcher was.

To be fair in America, Liberals represent the side of capital that benefits from regulations and welfare, as opposed to the side of capital that benefits from the neo-liberal program, which is represented by the republicans

[Starship Stormtrooper]

I just found out this morning, was wondering why I heard my dad celebrating late last night :D!

[Vanguard1917]

She was a formidable class warrior but she merely intensified the assault on the working class that had been launched by the Labour government of Wilson and Callaghan in the '70s. Yet Harold Wilson is remembered as something of a hero by the same Labour types who would happily call Thatcher a *****. Delusional Labour reformism recoiled in horror as their beloved postwar settlement with capitalism was brought crashing down by a class of exploiters with whom the reformists imagined they would remain cosy bedfellows for eternity.

A plague on both their houses, not just hers.

[Il Medico]

Good.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

To be fair in America, Liberals represent the side of capital that benefits from regulations and welfare, as opposed to the side of capital that benefits from the neo-liberal program, which is represented by the republicans

I knew what he meant, but I had to make fun of him anyway.

[IrishWorker]

http://www.irsp.ie/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/irspnews01.jpg


http://www.irsp.ie/programme/logo01.gif


The death of the “Iron Lady” seems to be the topic of the day with much, predictable though nonetheless sickening, genuflecting from the Irish main stream media who are seeking to depict her as a pragmatic protagonist in Anglo-Irish relations and as a modernising reformer in the UK.

Irish Republicans need no reminding of the callous role she played in the recent history of our country. However, immature posturing and celebration of the death of an 87 year old woman is not what the Irish working class and the Irish struggle for a 32 County Socialist Republic needs right now. We need to evaluate and recognize her legacy. The success of her Neoliberal project and the effects it is having on the people of Ireland and the wider working class of the world today. In this part of the world we have seen in her wake, Neoliberal policies successfully confronting trade union power, attacking all forms of social solidarity, dismantling and rolling back the commitments of the welfare state, the privatisation of public enterprises, and reducing taxes on the rich while the living standards of workers and the poor are simultaneously eroded.

Thatcher once famously declared ”there is no such thing as society, only individual men and women”. That ideological standpoint is today everywhere evident around us as Ireland’s leaders blindly follow the Neoliberal economic path, no matter what devastating social cost it comes at.

The Tyrant, from a Tyrannical regime, has indeed passed away, yet the monster she created lives on. Our energies today need to focus on how we can successfully confront the tyranny of market fundamentalism, on rebuilding those social solidarities so ravaged by Thatcher and her ilk, and on leading the fight towards revolutionary social change in Ireland and worldwide.

It is with particular poignancy today that I quote one of the brave ten hunger strikers of 1981, INLA Volunteer Party O’Hara:
“After we are gone, what will you say you were doing? Will you say you were with us in our struggle or were you conforming to the very system that drove us to our deaths?”
Patsy’s example and his words ring true for us all today who strive to oppose the ravages of modern day imperialism and capitalism. Do we conform to the system or do we oppose it through struggle?

As Patsy said.. ”Let the fight go on…”

http://www.irsp.ie/news/?p=1150

[GallowsBird]

I am the complete opposite of sad about Mrs Thatcher's death, especially since I (like many others) was effected by Thatcher's policies. The sad thing is when I mentioned I was not at all sad or sympathetic about Thatcher's death I was criticised with the line "It is sad when anyone dies!" which is of course ridiculous.
Though we all must remember that lime many others Thatcher's legacy has not died with her and the current government (as with all post Thatcher governments) still continue the same Thatcherite line; it is hard not to feel some happiness when someone has caused misery for you, your friends and community has died. It is only a shame that her death was more dignified than the deaths of many of those that her policies have effected.

Now she is gone she can join all her dead old friends; Ronald Reagan, P.W. Botha, Pol Pot and her all-time favourite General Pinochet.

[Manifesto]

I am not going to take part in this "Who cares that she died?" When someone that has helped kill millions, oppress the workers, prevented gay marriage, and opposed Mandela dies I will be very glad about her death, make that ecstatic.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Honestly, today has been the best day I've had in awhile simply because of this. It was excellent news to wake up to this morning. At least it'll mean none of us poor people will end up in hell too since she'll privatize it :laugh:.

[Lucretia]

This is great news, because we all know that capitalism and its overthrow are all about specific personalities. And this one personality in particular has wielded so much power over the past 20 years. Her death will have a tremendous impact on the class struggle.

[Doflamingo]

Lawrence o'Donnell is on MSNBC calling Thatcher a "good socialist" and praising her, and then continued to say "communism doesn't work." :laugh:

[redshoesrock]

So says the so-called "practical European socialist", Lawrence O'Donnell.

Yeesh.

[Crixus]

The apathy among the young crowd today is abit disconcerting i must say :sleep:
The 1980's was a decade when capital went on a blatant offensive campaign against both Marxism and workers rights around the globe. Thatcher and Reagan were simply the public faces of this agenda. If neither one were born the same process would have happened. This is why I didn't care when Reagan died and this is why I don't care that Thatcher died. I don't operate under the illusion that we have actual democracy in the west. This current Obama administration should have made all this very obvious. He's pushing privatization of everything in sight, massively cutting social programs, cutting education funding, facilitating a global war for capital/profit/market expansion etc. Right now, if capital collectively (pun intended) thought that attacking workers wages/benefits/social programs in the west would help capitalism flourish they would do it but I think they realized they overextended themselves in the 1980's - but we are going to see some massive austerity measures in America, the thing is under Reagan/Thatcher it was all outwardly ideological but when it happens with Obama everything is intentionally obfuscated. Both deregulation and attacking labor (lowering wages) set the stage for the current crisis, they know that. The system is getting what it wants right now with the Obama administration. In the 1980's it got what it wanted from Reagan/Thatcher. I see an Obama type of politician as capital's learning process. As in, learning how to attack us while we say thank you sir may I have another. I almost wish a Thatcher type persona was capitals national spokesperson right now. It would intensify the class struggle as austerity measures are taken during the fall out from this crisis.

[Crixus]

I am not going to take part in this "Who cares that she died?" When someone that has helped kill millions, oppress the workers, prevented gay marriage, and opposed Mandela dies I will be very glad about her death, make that ecstatic.

I wouldn't care if Obama had a heart attack tonight. The same current agenda would go on with a different face. It's the sort of mentality that I see in this thread which leads so many people to the 'lesser of two evils' support for Democrats. A man named 'Bob Baxter" could have been prime minister in the 1980's and the same agenda would have been facilitated by his administration. Electoral politics is bullshit. Representative democracy under capitalism is simply the rule of capital and the golden rule is he who has the gold makes the rules. Thatcher and Reagan didn't make the rules they were told what to do.

QTcL6Xc_eMM

[Prometeo liberado]

"Dead, alive, no matter just be gone and let those who toil never know of your kind again."

J.B.

[rylasasin]

PHQLQ1Rc_Js

[Tristana]

Rest in Peace, Roger Ebert.
Rest in Peace, Annette Funicello.
Rest in Piss, Margaret Thatcher.

[B5C]

To my Conservative friends who are mad at me speaking ill to one of their god well..
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/62662_483291701724661_344581852_n.png

[Tifosi]

http://libcom.org/files/brixton.jpg

Hundreds gather in Brixton to an 80's sound track. Drinking cans of beer and bottles of milk at this party. Pigs tried to break it up.

http://libcom.org/files/images/news/BHYKa9PCEAA1HRT%5B1%5D_0.jpg

[Luís Henrique]

She will be reincarnated as a coal miner.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

You won the thread!

Luís Henrique

[Questionable]

I'm not one for celebrity worship but as a huge fan of The Smiths I have to share Morrissey's statement on her death:


Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the Ivory Trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own Cabinet booted her out. She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone – and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs up sign for the British press.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Yeah obviously the death of an induvidual doesn't mean much in the scheme of things. But the death of someone like this who is so closely associated with certain politics or practices results in media and popular reflection of that time-period and their "life's meaning" is contested and in a small way allows political visions to be promoted and contrasted. So it's not completely meaningless, though it would probably not mean much in the long run.


To be fair in America, Liberals represent the side of capital that benefits from regulations and welfare, as opposed to the side of capital that benefits from the neo-liberal program, which is represented by the republicansThis was more the case eartlier, but since the late 80s the Democrats and Labor are fully committed to neoliberalism outside some small minority sections of these parties (who will probably only gain influence or traction if there is a need from above to push a shift away from neoliberalism because of popular opposition, changes in international capitalist competition, or war or whatnot). The main difference on neoliberalism is really how to play it to the base of the party, how to sell it. The Democrats, more than the Republicans, use Thatcher's "no alternative" reasoning whereas the Republicans tend to argue it's the "best alternative". Democrats always claim they are reluctantly, or for "no alternative" economic pragmatism reasons (we need to be competative, attract business!), push neoliberalism but only because their base actually do want to keep these reforms.


I can see other women, but not even against Thatcher?Well I think "union-buster" or oppressor are more accurate slurs since my animosity towards Thatcher has nothing to do with her gender. Saying that a woman in a leadership position, even an oppressor, is a ***** complements broader sexist ideas even if that wasn't the intention. I don't think the comrade meant anything sexist by it, just vitriol, but still it's not the sentiments that I think we'd want to project on a leftist website.

[F9]

Quite possibly, but as you have you location down as the Netherlands, I doubt that you did, and I presume that the people posting on this thread from Cyprus, or Bosnia didn't either.

Devrim

2 years now a UK resident, and definitely for more to come.just saying

[Crux]

A feminist guide to celebrating Thatcher’s demise (http://angrywomen.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/thatchers-demise/)

[Comrade #138672]

These right-wing morons keep saying that Thatcher was somehow an example for all women, because she managed to "climb to the top", despite being a woman. Apparently, they think that an anti-Feminist can be a Feminist somehow by "inspiration". Stupid shit, really.

[Tifosi]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-1930F594000005DC-166_634x441.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-1930F554000005DC-808_306x436.jpg

In Liverpool last night. Ready to 'Harlem Shake' on her grave by the looks of things lol.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/09/article-2306165-19326590000005DC-471_634x423.jpg

[ed miliband]

'thatcher: there was no alternative'

http://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/thatcher-there-was-no-alternative/


The Thatcher period lasted from 1979 to 1990. Much is made of ‘Thatcherism’ as some counter-revolutionary force on behalf of Capital, widely acclaimed by its supporters as saving Britain for capitalism , or turning it around from disaster. But the reality was is that Thatcherism was just one strand of a general sea change in economic strategy forced on Capital by the crisis that major capitalist economies had got into by the end of the 1970s. These economies had experienced a steady and sharp fall in the profitability of capital from the mid-1960s onwards. This was the result of tightening labour markets – no longer supplied with influxes of cheap labour from unemployed after the war or a fast-rising baby boomer working population. And also there was a rising level of investment in technology relative to labour that began to deliver so well on raising the productivity of labour.

gonna get some of you lot wetting yourselves.

[one10]

It's a damn shame she didn't die in the 80s.

[Willin']

Flower for thatcher WTF? People are actually sadden by it's death?
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-TL036196.jpg?size=67&uid=d2c3dcd8-cedf-46f5-872d-8250dcfca210
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/9/1365499677629/Margaret-Thatcher-floral--010.jpg

Well this is better
http://i.imgur.com/3A3QqHL.jpg
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-04-08/revellers-in-brixton-celebrate-thatchers-death/

[B5C]

Don't be fooled by the Title: ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-lewis/the-irony-lady-in-defense_b_3040368.html


The Irony Lady: In Defense of Margaret Thatcher...

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2013-04-08-SunGotcha.png

The world's heart is heavy as we have learned of the death of the most brilliant leader the world has even known -- the blessed Margaret.

It was the saintly Margaret who rescued Britain from its dire position at the end of the 1970s and restored it to its former glory.

When Margaret Thatcher came to power in 1979, Britain ranked perilously low in the ranking for so many important indicators of power and influence.

For example, suicides among small-business owners were at an all-time low. The nanny state fostered by successive governments, both Labour and Conservative, had misleadingly protected incompetent entrepreneurs from the consequences of the market. Not under Maggie! Those cowardly safety nets were whisked away within a few years, and if you couldn't stand on your own feet -- well there was always hanging yourself to take the weight off. The suicide rate soared and a lot of useless riff-raff who kept whinging about society's responsibility were removed from the voting registers. Good riddance!

She had the courage to do away with the foolish notion that the unemployed should have jobs. Especially feckless youth. Thatcher managed to get the unemployment numbers up to over three million in the space of just 2 years! No easy feat. David Cameron's government is doing its best to emulate Thatcher's achievement -- but so far they are mere pygmies next to Thatcher when it comes to destroying the working class.

Read the rest in the link! It's great!!

[Edelweiss]

x-4FJcnX0i8

[Sam_b]

I got very drunk yesterday and accidentally got interviewed for the telly wearing a party hat.

[B5C]

I got very drunk yesterday and accidentally got interviewed for the telly wearing a party hat.

Want video! ;)

[RedAnarchist]

x-4FJcnX0i8

I can't wait for our game on Sunday against Reading, it will be the day before the anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster, and our fans will certainly be celebrating Thatcher's demise. Thankfully, no game is going to have a minute's anything for the old fucker, mainly because the FA know most football fans will do the opposite to what was planned.

Edit - Thought it was Sunday, they actually play on Saturday.

[Red Commissar]

I got very drunk yesterday and accidentally got interviewed for the telly wearing a party hat.

I wonder how long until that picture ends up in a daily mail article

"SOCIALISTS HAVE DRUNKEN PARTY OVER THATCHER'S DEATH"

[Willin']

How her funeral will be held:
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/564096_544855232204125_1946517801_n.jpg

[RedAnarchist]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead-could-reach-number-one-following-margaret-thatchers-death-8566042.html

[rednordman]

I got very drunk yesterday and accidentally got interviewed for the telly wearing a party hat.:laugh:

[rednordman]

I wonder how long until that picture ends up in a daily mail article

"SOCIALISTS HAVE DRUNKEN PARTY OVER THATCHER'S DEATH"Watch this space. We are going to get SO vilified in the press in the oncoming days. but i have to say to see the reactions of the rightwingers to it all, it will all have been worth it.lol

[RedAnarchist]

Watch this space. We are going to get SO vilified in the press in the oncoming days. but i have to say to see the reactions of the rightwingers to it all, it will all have been worth it.lol

I wonder how many of those hypocritical bastards were celebrating the death of Chavez earlier this year?

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Some Portugese PM =/= the embodiment of neo-liberalism

Also what is up with your Portugese nationalism, jesus.

It is not just some portuguese PM. If he resigns, he takes the government with him, and there must be new elections. This is extremely important to the portuguese people, because this government has just announced more cuts.
Even though it is likely that the party who wins the elections will also follow the plan of the troika, it would show the portuguese people that the center parties are the same, and that would make them go into the extremes.
For you this is just some PM kilometers away, but for the portuguese people he is the symbol of the troika.

Now that I think about it: What do you know?
You live in a country which has never been in a situation like this. The portuguese people have been living in crisis since the revolution of 1974.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

It is not just some portuguese PM. If he resigns, he takes the government with him, and there must be new elections. This is extremely important to the portuguese people, because this government has just announced more cuts.
Even though it is likely that the party who wins the elections will also follow the plan of the troika, it would show the portuguese people that the center parties are the same, and that would make them go into the extremes.
For you this is just some PM kilometers away, but for the portuguese people he is the symbol of the troika.

Now that I think about it: What do you know?
You live in a country which has never been in a situation like this. The portuguese people have been living in crisis since the revolution of 1974.

Yeah that would be fun and all, but he didn't resign.
So boo us anglo-centrist for focusing on an existent situation instead of some hypothetical scenario of resignation made by an anarchist on revleft.

Cuts happen everywhere in Europe because there is a crisis, don't think Portugal is somehow special.

Then again what do you know about Dutch politics again?

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Yeah that would be fun and all, but he didn't resign.
So boo us anglo-centrist for focusing on an existent situation instead of some hypothetical scenario of resignation made by an anarchist on revleft.

If he did not resign, we will make him resign.


Cuts happen everywhere in Europe because there is a crisis, don't think Portugal is somehow special.

The crisis is the excuse they give to take away our money and give it to the banks. The talk about debt, but it is not our debt. If there is anyone who must pay it is the banks.
I speak of Portugal as much as I could speak about Spain, because the situation is similar. I speak of Portugal because it is the country I know best.


Then again what do you know about Dutch politics again?

Did you know that the minimum salary in Portugal is about 400€? Did you know that our unemployment is probably over 20%? Did you know that many of the people who do have work are payed below minimum wage?

[Crixus]

It is not just some portuguese PM. If he resigns, he takes the government with him, and there must be new elections. This is extremely important to the portuguese people, because this government has just announced more cuts.
Even though it is likely that the party who wins the elections will also follow the plan of the troika, it would show the portuguese people that the center parties are the same, and that would make them go into the extremes.
For you this is just some PM kilometers away, but for the portuguese people he is the symbol of the troika.

1974.

That hasn't happened in the USA with the seamless transition from Bush to Obama. Where are all the so called "leftists" who made lifestyles and carriers out of bashing Bush? All we saw as a result of this crisis and the continued, no expanded upon Bush era policies was some generic symbolic protest of Wall St. which had no actual teeth because there were no political ramifications largely out of misguided loyalty to democrats/Obama. "lets shake the boat a little...not too hard to affect Obama's reelection though".

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

If he did not resign, we will make him resign.

Good luck with that.




The crisis is the excuse they give to take away our money and give it to the banks. The talk about debt, but it is not our debt. If there is anyone who must pay it is the banks.

Yeah, that will never happen.



I speak of Portugal as much as I could speak about Spain, because the situation is similar. I speak of Portugal because it is the country I know best.


No. You complain about others not talking about Portugal as much. You complaint that in the hypothetical situation he would step down there would not as much attention for him as for one of the most important people of the late 20th century. Many here talk about Thatcher because they knew Thatcher best.



Did you know that the minimum salary in Portugal is about 400€? Did you know that our unemployment is probably over 20%? Did you know that many of the people who do have work are payed below minimum wage?

Yep. Do you know similar situations happen all throughout Europe? Do you know Portugal is not some super-special place in the world? Do you know that instead of whining about people not talking about Portugal you maybe could start an actual thread on Portugal if you think Portgual is so important? Or are you too busy whining about your oh-so special country not getting a sub-forum?

[TheRedAnarchist23]

That hasn't happened in the USA with the seamless transition from Bush to Obama.

You cannot compare Portugal to the USA, they are nothing like one another.
First of all communism is not an ugly word in Portugal, and it is usualy synonimous with the communist party (PCP), who got 8% of votes in the last elections. The other big thing to consider is the fact that on the second day of March, in this year, there was the lagest demonstration ever to happen in our country. One and a half million people went out of their homes to demonstrate, this is a huge number when you consider the whole population of Portugal is ten million. The demonstration demanded the resignation of the government, and the end of rightist policy in the country. As you can see the left is not something weak in Portugal as it is in the USA.

[Zealot]

Good riddance.

[RedAnarchist]

If you want to talk about Portugal, feel free to make another thread about it. This thread is not for derailing.

[kasama-rl]

Did you know?

In 1982, Thatcher threatened to wipe out the Argentinian city of Cordoba through nuclear attack (from four British nuclear submarines) if her navy suffered significant losses (like the loss of their air craft carrier) during the war to retake the Malvinas Islands.

(There are many sources... with more documentation accumulating over time. I wrote exposure articles shortly after the war.)

Cold-blooded. Genocidal. Utterly imperialist.

And, as an aside, what does it mean that so few know about this crime? Since the threat itself is a crime... and the intention to make good that threat shows the depth of depravity in her. It means we live on an information diet enforced by a slavish media.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

This does not matter anymore, because I am starting "the Portugal thread".

[RedAnarchist]

Australia's Foreign Minister Bob Carr has described comments made by Baroness Thatcher as "unabashedly racist".

In a conversation with her "in her retirement", Mr Carr said the former UK prime minister had warned Australia against Asian immigration.

She said "if we allowed too much of it we'd see the natives of the land, the European settlers, overtaken by migrants", he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22087702

[No_Leaders]

Omg it's true! it's finally happened. GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!! Party tonight!! party tonight! we're gonna get so drunk that we can't help but party tonight! have a good time! oh yeah have a good time we're gonna get so drunk that we can't help but have a good timeeeeeeee!! As soon as i'm off work i'm going to be getting some drinks, I'd love to throw a party and invite all fellow revlefters :)

[Le Libérer]

I always knew she was responsible for 9/11.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/525440_437127566379926_1447683749_n.jpg

[Sam_b]

In response to some questions, I can't find the interview (thankfully), but there is video footage of me and comrades celebrating with our hats and blowers on the website of a major Scottish broadsheet.

[Comrade Nasser]

She dead. Let's celebrate my communist and anarchist comrades!

[Blake's Baby]

Has anyone attempted any kind of 'Thatcher's dead but her class war policies are alive and well' style leaflet?

[Brutus]

Has anyone attempted any kind of 'Thatcher's dead but her class war policies are alive and well' style leaflet?

We should do it. We'll write it as a team like the invisible committee.
We need a cool name:
Committee of Thatcher hating socialists?

[Devrim]

I don't think there is anything disturbing about the solidarity of Bosnian or Dutch or Cypriot workers with their comrades in the UK.


Accusing people of having no possible "connection" to Thatcher's policies by virtue of their location alone is pretty rude, though.


We will abandon internationalism straight away then.

I don't think that internationalism really has that much to do with people making a few comments on an internet board. As I said previously, I can understand the feelings of those who lived in a certain place at a certain time.

There was a blog (http://libcom.org/blog/thatchers-death-%E2%80%93-some-quick-thoughts-08042013) on Libcom that for me captured it:


Today, along with up to 55,000 other workers in HM Revenue & Customs, I was taking part in a half day's strike. It was just before one when literally hundreds of us were gathered outside work for a mass walk-in, and a member of the public ran past excitedly. “Maggie Thatcher's dead!” He yelled.
Straight away, union reps and members, the drivers lined up in the taxi rank and other members of the public were on their phones to check the news. Some cheers went up. More people shouted the news out to their mates on the street. More cheers. Then the strike finished, and her name kept popping out of the conversations of the throng walking into work. In the office and both my manager and her manager are talking about it, and how it was good she hadn't held on a week longer to sully the memory Hillsborough.
Waiting for the bus home, I rang my nan and told her the news. She remarked that no tears would be shed for Maggie in Liverpool and reeled off a list of why she despised the woman.
All of the above happened spontaneously. Only a tiny minority of the people involved are known militants or communists, the kind of people you would recognise as the professional left in attendance at every vaguely left wing rally or demonstration. Rather they're mostly working class people – male and female, employed and unemployed – of an age to remember what Thatcher did to our city and our class.


I can understand that. What I have difficulty understanding is how people with little connection to the events seem to feel such a hatred.

Also I think that the death of Thatcher and the leftist celebrations of it symbolise the complete impotence of the working class. Basically she won, the working class was smashed to the point that it still hasn't recovered, and twenty years on, we are reduced to celebrating an old woman dying peacefully in her bed. It's says a lot about the state of the left.


Just a pity they never got her in Brighton. Gona be celebrating this great news with a few good friends and a few cold ones very shortly. However she died it certainly was not prolonged enough nor painful enough.

Despite my opinions about national liberation movements, I remember wishing that they had got her at the time, as millions of other workers' did. Then it would have meant something.

Devrim

[Starship Stormtrooper]

While my location is the SE US coast, I forgot to mention that my dad's half of the family is English (he's an immigrant) and we all hated Thatcher with a passion. As a result, I feel that it is acceptable to celebrate the death of someone who had such a dramatic and such a negative impact on the family fortunes.

[rednordman]

Also I think that the death of Thatcher and the leftist celebrations of it symbolise the complete impotence of the working class. Basically she won, the working class was smashed to the point that it still hasn't recovered, and twenty years on, we are reduced to celebrating an old woman dying peacefully in her bed. It's says a lot about the state of the left.
Very true, but at the same time, and i'm not sure you aware of this, but all these celebrations are seriously upsetting the ever so self righteous rightwing. Yes believe it or not, they really did expect us to be as upset and full of praise as they have been. That's how out of touch and arrogant they are. Frankly some of them actually see us as having an illness, because of our beliefs. I'd say rub it in, and anyway, her funeral is going to cost us an absolute bomb. in a time when the tory's bemoan how little money we all have.

[The Intransigent Faction]

We should do it. We'll write it as a team like the invisible committee.
We need a cool name:
Committee of Thatcher hating socialists?

Not really a "leaflet"...but check this out:

http://rabble.ca/news/2013/04/margaret-thatcher-dead-struggle-against-thatcherism-continues

[piet11111]

The ability to read and write allows us to share information over distance and time.

This enables us to know stuff from the past and from a places far beyond where we live.

When one then reads about this terrible person and what she did and for what reasons it then becomes clear that the passing of said person is not something to be mourned but perhaps even something to be happy about.
If only more of her ilk would follow her into death we might be seeing a better world.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

'Campaign for Thatcher statue in Trafalgar Square gathers momentum'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/10/campaign-thatcher-statue-trafalgar-square

Great, more shit to destroy.

[Luís Henrique]

Has anyone attempted any kind of 'Thatcher's dead but her class war policies are alive and well' style leaflet?

"Thatcher's dead, it's time to kill Thatcherism".

Perhaps a symbolic funeral for her ideology and policies?

Or an agnostic public "mass" for the victims of Thatcherism, from coal miners to Argentinian (and British, why not) soldiers, passing, of course, for those elderly people who freezed to death due to her attacks on welfare?

Luís Henrique

[John Lennin]

Well, she's dead. So what?
There are much more important things than a dead capitalist grandma.

[Blake's Baby]

...

There was a blog (http://libcom.org/blog/thatchers-death-%E2%80%93-some-quick-thoughts-08042013) on Libcom that for me captured it...

I agree, I checked this out on LibCom yesterday and thought it was a very good piece.



...
Also I think that the death of Thatcher and the leftist celebrations of it symbolise the complete impotence of the working class. Basically she won, the working class was smashed to the point that it still hasn't recovered, and twenty years on, we are reduced to celebrating an old woman dying peacefully in her bed. It's says a lot about the state of the left...

I have to agree with this too. She did win, at least for her lifetime, but I hope not for ours.

But I begrudge the 20p or whatever it is that I will contribute to her funeral.



Not really a "leaflet"...but check this out:

http://rabble.ca/news/2013/04/margaret-thatcher-dead-struggle-against-thatcherism-continues

Thanks, some of that's in the vicinity of what I was looking for. Some of it just terrible bullshit and leftist myth-making though, an it ends with yet another bankrupt call for the "people's assembly" (sic) that we have to pay to get into. But beggars can't be chosers, thanks for posting it.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Well, she's dead. So what?
There are much more important things than a dead capitalist grandma.

Buzzkill. :(

[MP5]

These right-wing morons keep saying that Thatcher was somehow an example for all women, because she managed to "climb to the top", despite being a woman. Apparently, they think that an anti-Feminist can be a Feminist somehow by "inspiration". Stupid shit, really.

Ive heard this too. What a absolute pile of conservative bullshit. For once thing most actual feminists i know are Socialists who believe that women's struggle for equality is just a part of the bigger struggle for equality.

That doesn't exactly go with Thatcherism too well :rolleyes:

[Tifosi]

This beauty appeared in the 'Bansky Tunnel' in London.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/11/article-2307367-1939152D000005DC-279_634x424.jpg

lol

[Luís Henrique]

This beauty appeared in the 'Bansky Tunnel' in London.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/11/article-2307367-1939152D000005DC-279_634x424.jpg

lol

I always find it fascinating how my fellow atheists still believe in some kind of god and supernatural justice.

Luís Henrique

[Hexen]

I always find it fascinating how my fellow atheists still believe in some kind of god and supernatural justice.

Luís Henrique

It is because we live in a Christian predominated society where even if we're atheists, Christianity still influences us hence things like that slip since it's part of the superstructure of our society.

[aty]

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/164964_453568541387953_665887930_n.jpg

[Starship Stormtrooper]

Is that from today's party at Trafalgar square or elsewhere, if so how did it go? I haven't seen much.

[Blake's Baby]

This beauty appeared in the 'Bansky Tunnel' in London.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/11/article-2307367-1939152D000005DC-279_634x424.jpg

lol

However, it looks like it's already gone. Saw on FB Saturday morning that it was painted over Friday night some time. I'm trying to find the pic but it may be some tine, a lot's happened since then (the Traf Square demo for instance).

[Ocean Seal]

I don't know why you are all so excited? When we die we will see her in hell, which she will already have privatized by the time we get there? Have you ever imagined a privatized hell?

[Blake's Baby]

I give up. I can't find the Banksy Tunnel pic. Maybe someone else with more energy or google-fu can get to it.

[brigadista]

I give up. I can't find the Banksy Tunnel pic. Maybe someone else with more energy or google-fu can get to it.

its was painted over by Brit rail

see link - also with more thatcher graffiti- just pleased it wasnt in bleedin hoxton - although looking at the pictures i think some is - terminator mural in Brighton

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/12/margaret-thatcher-dead-graffiti-art-removed-british-rail_n_3069512.html#slide=2324935

[Vanilla]

These right-wing morons keep saying that Thatcher was somehow an example for all women, because she managed to "climb to the top", despite being a woman. Apparently, they think that an anti-Feminist can be a Feminist somehow by "inspiration". Stupid shit, really.

Ha, this reminds me of a political cartoon I saw that showed her breaking the glass ceiling, and the shards of glass were falling on the people on the bottom. I can't find it now though :(

[Red Commissar]

Ha, this reminds me of a political cartoon I saw that showed her breaking the glass ceiling, and the shards of glass were falling on the people on the bottom. I can't find it now though :(

http://www.thenation.com/sites/default/files/user/20/984.png

?

[bricolage]

Dunno if this needed it's own thread, but I'm interested in the facts about coal mining in the UK that are being thrown around a lot, most notably by pro-Thatcher supporters. Here's one example of it,


The largest number of closures by far, 93 pits, were closed under Harold Wilson in the 60s. The next highest closure period took place under Jim Callaghan in the 70s.

Mrs Thatcher didn't take office until 1979 when 22 pits closed during her tenure in the 80s. Labour's closures far exceeded those of Mrs Thatcher.http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Labour+shut+more+pits.-a0231029627

And here:


One interesting perspective is how many jobs were lost. Callaghan ditched about 10,000 jobs. Thatcher about 190,000. Wilson took the hatchet out too with 200,000 jobs going.http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1154363

Quite clearly you have to see the pit closures under Thatcher in the political context they took place in. She was clearly wary to avoid the same fate at Heath who had been forced out of power my a miners strike in '74 and initially had to back down in '81 when the threat of NUM action forced her to sideline suggested pit closures. After that the government began to stockpile coal and take note of divisions in the miners (ie. areas like Nottinghamshire less likely to strike). Additionally been 1980 and 1984 a series of pieces of anti-union legislation (http://www.rmtlondoncalling.org.uk/node/1150) were brought in and Ian MacGregor, a noted hatchet-job man, put in place at the Coal Board. As such when the propose pit closures were announced in '84 (and in the eyes of the NUM and a the coal miners there was a much larger, unannounced 'Hit List') it was seen as the start of a political motivated onslaught against organised labour (which, despite the many many problems with trade unions, they were clearly a part of) and British manufacturing. The nature of the strike and the subsequent reforms to British industrial relations and the subsequent decline in working class counter-power clearly proves this right in hindsight.

However, what I am interested in is the reactions that were taken by the NUM under Wilson and what appears to be an equally brutal set of pit closures, albeit less part of a political endgame. Can it really be, as some Labourites claim, that he was just closing exhausted or dangerous pits? I don't really believe this at all. This book here (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BSrQNk1sr8EC&pg=PA222&lpg=PA222&dq=pit+closures+under+wilson&source=bl&ots=u1zpWjT9St&sig=hBy8HEpFd09IHRk32TQ-FZllwq4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_ehrUfG9AsmH4AT294HAAg&ved=0CHcQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=pit%20closures%20under%20wilson&f=false) talks about the Durham Miner's Gala in 1967 but actually ends by saying that 'there was actually little evidence of active unrest in the pits'. Scargill was obviously more militant and was only elected in '82 but there had been powerful miners strikes in '72, '74. Does this all just come down to the NUM (especially prior to the early 80s) being in the pocket of the Labour Party and it begs the question what would have been the reaction if, for example, Callaghan had stayed in power and announced in the early 80s the same closures that Thatcher eventually proposed? I'd be interested to see what anyone thinks of this.

[Hit The North]

I think a key reason was that Wilson and Callaghan were willing to involve the TU bureaucracy in negotiation (the old beer and sandwiches at number ten scenario) whereas Heath and Thatcher were both committed to ditching the neo-corporatism that saw TU leaders being consulted over price policies and other macro-economic issues. Heath was politically weak, had no theory, no plan and no luck so was smashed by the unions. Thatcher had a working majority, a theory, a plan and some good luck, and smashed the unions.

[IrishWorker]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/547626_10151562808024292_1298196678_n.jpg

[∞]

i dun grazed the ho earth up with gods gift on that day. twas good.

[brigadista]

those fools who think thatcher is a "feminist icon" you can be sure that there will never ever ever ever be another female leader of the tory party - lot of revisionism and grandstanding going on - it was her own party that killed her career. she was Airy Neave's puppet who became out of control once he was not around .

not that i care its all nonsense - i care about the communities that were destroyed , the black kids that were criminalised and the destruction to the class - stupid and destructive foreign policy continued by bliar et al - still going on

the current rate of unemployment amongst women in the uk 18 out of 27 on job security and equal pay....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/mar/08/british-women-equality-employment-scale

As far as i am concerned glad to see the back of her but v pissed off with her current political descendants all of them not just tories ..

there is no longer a pretence of working class representation in the uk parliament [as in old labour] currently ruled by the equilvalent of double glazing salesmen , bank managers and trust fund bored toffs -

predict a record low turnout in next election -

[bricolage]

fucking hell...


David Cameron has given his backing to the £15million museum and library which is planned as a permanent memorial to Margaret Thatcher.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/10007828/David-Cameron-gives-backing-to-15million-Thatcher-museum.html

[Starship Stormtrooper]

First the state funeral in all but name, now this? At least they're "soliciting donations" for this though, or am I missing something?

[Brutus]

Just another thing to destroy

[Hit The North]

fucking hell...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/10007828/David-Cameron-gives-backing-to-15million-Thatcher-museum.html

Bit ironic given she spent a lot of time trying to close down other people's libraries and museums :rolleyes:

[Niall]

fucking hell...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/10007828/David-Cameron-gives-backing-to-15million-Thatcher-museum.html
what a joke and a shocking disgrace

[RebelDog]

Is she still dead?

[Brutus]

Is she still dead?

Her ashes reformed and she is now stronger than ever!

[Slavoj Zizek's Balls]

£3.6 million spent on her funeral. Disgraceful.

[RedAnarchist]

£3.6 million spent on her funeral. Disgraceful.

It could have come from her personal fortune rather than being stolen from workers, who are already squeezed enough by the toffs in power.

[Slavoj Zizek's Balls]

It could have come from her personal fortune rather than being stolen from workers, who are already squeezed enough by the toffs in power.

That fortune coming from a capitalist millionaire (Denis Thatcher) who claimed his wife had been "stitched up by bloody BBC poofs and Trots".

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I've stayed relatively silent on this issue, but here's a very good summary of this whole situation:

http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php/united-kingdom/2412-john-pilger-dance-on-thatchers-grave-but-her-funeral-was-a-propaganda-stunt-fit-for-a-dictator