Ex-SYRIZA leader Alavanos launches party advocating Greek euro exit

[Die Neue Zeit]

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_04/04/2013_491927



Former SYRIZA leader Alekos Alavanos officially launched his new “Plan B” party on Thursday, advocating Greece leave the euro and return to the drachma.

Alavanos led SYRIZA between 2004 and 2008 but has been mostly on the political sidelines over the last few years. Over recent months, he has criticized the party he used to lead, arguing that its goal of rejecting the terms of the EU-IMF bailout but remaining in the single currency was not credible.

This criticism culminated in the 63-year-old announcing yesterday the creation of a new party that would give “a large part of Greek society, possibly as much as 50 percent who are in favor of leaving the euro, a chance to have their say.”

Alavanos said that in contrast to SYRIZA, the positions held by the Communist Party (KKE) and anti-capitalist ANTARSYA, which advocated a euro exit, had been “justified to a large degree.”

However, the leftist stressed that a return to the drachma would not in itself be a solution to Greece’s problems. “Leaving the euro is a precondition for salvation and recovery but is not enough on its own,” he said. “It is a link in the chain of transformations that have to happen, which includes economic planning, stopping payments to foreign lenders and nationalizing banks.”

The treatment of Cyprus by the eurozone, including threats that the liquidity supply to its banks would be cut off, only strengthened the need for Greece to look at alternatives, said Alavanos. “Events in Cyprus give the image of a nightmarish future, which we must never experience in Greece.”

Alavanos, who led SYRIZA to a 5.04 percent share of the vote in 2007, said that his new party would eschew the usual bureaucracy associated with political movements and instead harness the power of the Internet and direct democracy by operating through a “national network of assemblies, which will have decision-making powers.”



But will his emphasis on "liquid democracy" and assembly organization be a long-term detriment to "Plan B" if the new organization doesn't establish solidarity networks providing social and cultural services to ordinary Greeks?

[Geiseric]

A lot of people criticize SYRIZA for "Managing capitalism," albeit are usually incorrect, however that description seems to coorespond to this demand IMO. I don't think that currency change is a real demand working class people are concerned with.

[KurtFF8]

A lot of people criticize SYRIZA for "Managing capitalism," albeit are usually incorrect, however that description seems to coorespond to this demand IMO. I don't think that currency change is a real demand working class people are concerned with.


Why would working class people not be concerned with currency changes? :confused:

[Philosophos]

Oh god not Alavanos again... At least Tsipras is better looking :crying:

[Delenda Carthago]

Another opportunist dike.

[Sasha]

Another opportunist dike.

Excuse moi? I hope dike has different meaning in Greek because that is certainly not acceptalble language here, esp considering your earlier infraction for discriminatory slurs and the very thin ice your already walking on with your sig...
Infraction maybe reversible depending on your explanation.

[Delenda Carthago]

Excuse moi? I hope dike has different meaning in Greek because that is certainly not acceptalble language here, esp considering your earlier infraction for discriminatory slurs and the very thin ice your already walking on with your sig...
Infraction maybe reversible depending on your explanation.


Dike you ninja boy, not dyke.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Elephant_butte_dike.jpg


As: something that keeps the water(of revolution on our case) from flowing to a direction.

[Delenda Carthago]

How the fuck could a man be a dyke? He likes women?!:lol:

[Philosophos]

How the fuck could a man be a dyke? He likes women?!:lol:

well I've seen it writen with an "i" too as an insult.

[Delenda Carthago]

well I've seen it writen with an "i" too as an insult.
Are you familiar with the greek phrase "οππορτουνιστικό ανάχωμα";

[Q]

On topic please. If you want to appeal administrative measures, take it to the respective mod staff.

Another left-nationalist joining the forum and potentially splitting the movement. The KKE-Syriza divide is bad enough as it is...

That said, the sentence - “It is a link in the chain of transformations that have to happen, which includes economic planning, stopping payments to foreign lenders and nationalizing banks” - is certainly something that ought to be done... On a European scale. Greece leaving the Eurozone and the EU is going to achieve complete annihilation of that country and as such calls to do just that are dangerously irresponsible.

[Philosophos]

Are you familiar with the greek phrase "οππορτουνιστικό ανάχωμα";

yeah I understand what you want to say, but I'm also "defending" psycho. It's normal to confuse the meanings of the words that's all I'm saying.

[Paul Pott]

For Q:

Yes, a revolution spanning all of the nations of Europe is needed. That's the only way the revolution will ever be consolidated. Everyone would recognize that as the correct stance. What if, though, from the point of view of the Greek left, the revolution does not spread or for whatever reasons comes to be confined to a few countries or even Greece alone? History shows that that is an extremely likely scenario. What would Greek revolutionaries do in that situation? Even if there is a European revolution, the revolution in Greece will still be Greek in nature. It would only be European in hindsight, and most importantly as a part of the downfall of capitalism throughout Europe.

That is why slogans should be about Greece and working class power in Greece, and only then should they concern Europe as a necessity for the construction of socialism in Greece. They should not be abstractly European, as if Europe was one nation with one state and one ruling class with no variation in conditions on the ground. By the time the working class revolution becomes a reality, the material conditions in Greece and throughout Europe will be such that we won't need to concern ourselves with "destroying" Greece by angering creditors. Seeing as Golden Dawn is becoming powerful, there will likely be war.

To get back on topic, the problem with this new party is it will have a platform calling for Greece as a bourgeois state to leave the Eurozone and solve Greek capital's crisis alone. That will lead only to the reimposition of foreign capital's agenda in the long run, including but not limited to that of the EU and the Troika. The Greek working class wouldn't be any better for it. On the other hand, Syriza or any part of Syriza is inept as a working class vanguard to begin with. All of these problems stem from their reliance on parliamentarianism as a way to impose the working class perspective on the bourgeois Greek state. In short: reformism is worthless.

[Crux]

Greece leaving the Eurozone and the EU is going to achieve complete annihilation of that country and as such calls to do just that are dangerously irresponsible.
As opposed to staying in the Eurozone and the EU which is working great.
Not saying that leaving the euro and EU is in itself any kind of solution by the way. But this mistaken idea, which I encountered when speaking with some leading SYN members in Greece, that the EU is somehow synonymous with Europe is absurd. So no, Greece leaving the EU does not preclude all-european resistance. Europe out of the EU, I say.

[ckaihatsu]

Out of the goodness of my heart I came up with a slogan for this new political party:

'Abort the EU with Plan B'


Okay, joking aside, though....





Yes, a revolution spanning all of the nations of Europe is needed. That's the only way the revolution will ever be consolidated. Everyone would recognize that as the correct stance. What if, though, from the point of view of the Greek left, the revolution does not spread or for whatever reasons comes to be confined to a few countries or even Greece alone? History shows that that is an extremely likely scenario. What would Greek revolutionaries do in that situation? Even if there is a European revolution, the revolution in Greece will still be Greek in nature. It would only be European in hindsight, and most importantly as a part of the downfall of capitalism throughout Europe.

That is why slogans should be about Greece and working class power in Greece, and only then should they concern Europe as a necessity for the construction of socialism in Greece. They should not be abstractly European, as if Europe was one nation with one state and one ruling class with no variation in conditions on the ground. By the time the working class revolution becomes a reality, the material conditions in Greece and throughout Europe will be such that we won't need to concern ourselves with "destroying" Greece by angering creditors. Seeing as Golden Dawn is becoming powerful, there will likely be war.


I think you're missing the point of the situation here -- the European bourgeoisie has brought the economic and political integration of the continent / pennisula to this present state, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, just as industrialization has its positives, indisputably.

For revolutionaries this is the question that has to be pressed: Who does this integration benefit?

There's no need to *devolve* this social organization, as though emphasizing Greece's working class before all of Europe's is a better tactical position to take. Rather, we should see the social infrastructure as a pie that's just finished baking and is sitting on the counter, cooling off. There's nothing wrong with it, and we could easily fracture into factionalism, arguing how to split up the pie, or who gets the first piece, etc., but really we should be arguing for a new *social organization* to democratically decide on its fate -- *and* the oven and baking implements as a whole -- for the good of *everyone*.

This is a time-sensitive issue since, left unaddressed, both the EU and the pie will just cool off and begin to rot, leaving only opportunists and scavengers to scoop up what parts remain.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

On topic please. If you want to appeal administrative measures, take it to the respective mod staff.

Another left-nationalist joining the forum and potentially splitting the movement. The KKE-Syriza divide is bad enough as it is...

That said, the sentence - “It is a link in the chain of transformations that have to happen, which includes economic planning, stopping payments to foreign lenders and nationalizing banks” - is certainly something that ought to be done... On a European scale. Greece leaving the Eurozone and the EU is going to achieve complete annihilation of that country and as such calls to do just that are dangerously irresponsible.

I agree strongly with your first two paragraphs. However, I cannot understand the last sentence.
Do you realize that Greece, as a direct result of the EU-system as well as the global financial/sovereign debt crisis, has now been pushed into virtual bankruptcy, is only being "saved" from defaulting on its debts to European/US Banks, by absolutely crippling "reforms" by the Troika without end in sight?
New 'concessions' are being demanded by European/US Capital for the Greek State to fire 15,000 more public employees until June to get "its" next bail-out-package to feed the Capitalists' interest rates on Greek debts. The "reforms" that are being demanded so that Greece does not default on its debts, are putting Greece into economic free fall. Youth unemployment in the country has risen to 60%! Average Workers' Wages have fallen 40% since 2010, overall unemployment is 30%.

Every month life gets more dire for working People of Greece. And the Rulers of Capital will keep pushing the country to privatize public assets, fire public workers, and cut wages.

Greece absolutely has to leave the bloody Euro if it wants to see some growth within the next 5 years. Yes, defaults on debts and new currency will result on economic collapse if Greece were to remain capitalist and keep a free flowing currency, money. But mate, investments in Greece have fallen 60% since 2010! Investments would pick back up within weeks if Greece could match its currency value to its export capacity.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

For Q:

Yes, a revolution spanning all of the nations of Europe is needed. That's the only way the revolution will ever be consolidated. Everyone would recognize that as the correct stance. What if, though, from the point of view of the Greek left, the revolution does not spread or for whatever reasons comes to be confined to a few countries or even Greece alone? History shows that that is an extremely likely scenario. What would Greek revolutionaries do in that situation? Even if there is a European revolution, the revolution in Greece will still be Greek in nature. It would only be European in hindsight, and most importantly as a part of the downfall of capitalism throughout Europe.

[1] That is why slogans should be about Greece and working class power in Greece, and only then should they concern Europe as a necessity for the construction of socialism in Greece. They should not be abstractly European, as if Europe was one nation with one state and one ruling class with no variation in conditions on the ground. By the time the working class revolution becomes a reality, the material conditions in Greece and throughout Europe will be such that we won't need to concern ourselves with "destroying" Greece by angering creditors. Seeing as Golden Dawn is becoming powerful, there will likely be war.

To get back on topic, [2]the problem with this new party is it will have a platform calling for Greece as a bourgeois state to leave the Eurozone and solve Greek capital's crisis alone. That will lead only to the reimposition of foreign capital's agenda in the long run, including but not limited to that of the EU and the Troika. The Greek working class wouldn't be any better for it. On the other hand, Syriza or any part of Syriza is inept as a working class vanguard to begin with. All of these problems stem from their reliance on parliamentarianism as a way to impose the working class perspective on the bourgeois Greek state. In short: reformism is worthless.

[1] Yes, yes, that might be true, however, have you heard what happened in Albania with the Social-Democratic anti-fascist uprising in 1995? NATO came to protect the US/EU Capitalists Order. In the last four years, the Imperialist armies of Europe have become much stronger and plans for a European Army are on the table. Revolution/Civil War and general threat to the Order of the Bourgeoisie within Europe will immediately demand the bourgeois Hounds to smash the resistance. And smashed in little Greece it would be.

No, no, what is needed is the formation of a unified Communist Party of Europe which can gather enough votes to win seats in the European parliament and political stage. If, say, two or three countries of Europe were to have a majority support for the Communist Party, then a gamble could perhaps be made; but that is just talk. What is needed is not a slogan 'working class power in Greece', but a slogan 'Towards a European Communist Party!'

On the question of Civil War: If the Fascists try to destroy the Order of bourgeois democracy, then we Communists must of course give all to build our own revolutionary civil war. But that is an entirely different question that does not yet pose itself.

[2] You might be right regarding the leadership of that party, however, notice the man's striving for “national network of assemblies, which will have decision-making powers.” in this 'Plan B' party. Remember the Paris Commune. If this Party gains any significant membership in the next three years, and taking for granted that the crisis will march on in the next years, the direct democratic aspect could give it a very interesting dynamic if it were to win a parliamentary majority and suffer a coup against its leadership; the 'national assemblies' could perhaps bring out something very Parisian in war time circumstances.

All of this is of course very unlikely.

[garrus]

from wikipedia:

In 27 November 2007, Alavanos announced that he would not apply for a renewal of his presidency of Synaspismos at its 5th party congress in February 2008, due to private reasons.[1] He was replaced by Alexis Tsipras.

Were there any political reasons Alavanos left SIRIZA?

[Luís Henrique]

Excuse moi? I hope dike has different meaning in Greek because that is certainly not acceptalble language here, esp considering your earlier infraction for discriminatory slurs and the very thin ice your already walking on with your sig...
Infraction maybe reversible depending on your explanation.

Oh good grief, can't you see that this is a guy whose first language is not English confusing "dick" with "dyke"?

Cada uma...

Luís Henrique

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Sasha from 2013 is gonna feel like such a tool, way to go sasha from 2013

[Luís Henrique]

Sasha from 2013 is gonna feel like such a tool, way to go sasha from 2013

Ah, yeah. But I beat him in this respect, looking not only like a tool, but like a necrophilic (or would that be a necromantic?) tool.

Definitely have to stop making searches on revleft and then responding to posts, forgetting that they may have not been written in the last few days...

Beuh, as they French would say.

Luís Henrique