Attacks on members of a 'subculture' to be logged as 'hate crimes'

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

A police force has begun recording attacks on members of subcultures, such as goths and emos, as hate crimes.
Greater Manchester Police (GMP) is the first force in the UK to treat the offences in such a way.
Previously hate crimes were only registered for offences against race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity.
GMP has worked with a charity set up following the murder of 20-year-old goth Sophie Lancaster in 2007.
Ms Lancaster was attacked in a park in Bacup, Lancashire, on 24 August 2007, along with her boyfriend Robert Maltby, because of the way they were dressed.
She was kicked and stamped on as she cradled her badly beaten boyfriend.
While Mr Maltby made a partial recovery from his injuries, Ms Lancaster slipped into a coma after the attack and died later in hospital
After her death, family and friends set up the Sophie Lancaster Foundation.
The charity campaigns to change attitudes in society towards people who may have a different lifestyle or appearance.
The foundation has been working with GMP to educate officers.
Ms Lancaster's mother Sylvia said: "I think [what the police are doing] will make a vast difference. We're finding people are coming to us and saying since we started our campaigns they feel safer."
BBC home affairs correspondent Tom Symonds said offences motivated by hatred for the victim's race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or transgender identity could receive higher sentences.
But, our correspondent said, without a change in legislation, police in Greater Manchester can do little more than record subculture hate as an element in a crime.

More here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-22018888 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-22018888)

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Well, I'm not sure about the fuss over 'goths and emos', but there is certainly room in society for a little fucking social acceptance.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Just as long as fascists don't try to argue that they are a "subculture" or "lifestyle" and try to get anti-fascist rallies banned ...

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Just as long as fascists don't try to argue that they are a "subculture" or "lifestyle" and try to get anti-fascist rallies banned ...

Problem is, fascism wants to impose it's "lifestyle" on everyone else, I can't help but notice that goths don't do anything like that.

Also, if your "subculture" intrinsically involves stirring up hatred and violence against others, you might have trouble gaining acceptance among people who aren't raging boneheads.

[Jimmie Higgins]

While it would be good to have more acceptance in society, I think that subculture is too abstract to meaningfully aid this. In the U.S. right-wing Christians, militias, are subcultures and anti-Lgbt bigots try and claim things like gay teachers in schools is intolerance to their views!

[Sasha]

But these people where clearly brutally attacked for how they looked, I always make sure that the fash I punch is in fact a fash, not only because 9 out of 10 stereotypical boneheads one sees here on the street are in fact gay fetishists but also I only punch ppl for what they think, not how they look.
Heck, I recently pissed of a bunch of old-school fence sitters big time when I ejected them from my work for wearing 2 decade old B&H tattoos while shaking hands with a kid with a huge blacksun tattoo. The difference? I knew the kid made a clean break with the Nazi scene and had already an appointment to get his tattoos covered.

[homegrown terror]

But these people where clearly brutally attacked for how they looked, I always make sure that the fash I punch is in fact a fash, not only because 9 out of 10 stereotypical boneheads one sees here on the street are in fact gay fetishists but also I only punch ppl for what they think, not how they look.

or a non-fascist/anti-fascist skin (known a lot more of them than the fascist variety)

[Paul Pott]

Fuck this, the best part of high school was torturing the emo kids.

[Tenka]

Fuck this, the best part of high school was torturing the emo kids.

Surely you don't mean literally!

Anyway, physical violence against "emos" and "goths", it's pretty safe to assume often has a basis in perceived sexual orientation of these individuals (men in striking makeup!!1 and they aren't playing Heavy Metal!!!1). And seeing as homophobia is invariably founded on sexism, I'd link such attacks in general (even if the victim is not perceived as gay) back to heterosexist hatred of any who do not conform. Therefore, "hate crime"; and legislation for this is legitimate as any made for "hate"-based violence against any minority.

At least, until the mallgoths have taken over and run our governments with their expensive dark clothes and poseurness.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Surely you don't mean literally!


At least, until the mallgoths have taken over and run our governments with their expensive dark clothes and poseurness.

If this were to happen, then would bombing hot topic be a legitimate form of class struggle?

[bcbm]

Fuck this, the best part of high school was torturing the emo kids.

wow youre an asshole

[l'Enfermé]

wow youre an asshole
Yeah, the goths are way worse than the emos.

But yeah the GMP is doing a good thing, for a change, fuck hate crime

[Rafiq]

Fuck this, the best part of high school was torturing the emo kids.

really because for me the best part for me was defending them

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Comrade Nasser]

Fascism is like a disease to me. It's disgusting and very reactionary. It's followers are mindless ant's that have no idea why there marching, or what there marching for. They work only for the preservation of the "Ideology" that they follow, which is nothing more than petty nationalism gone overboard. Once a person is bit by the fascist bug, it is very hard to turn them around. Fascism is like belly fat, you get rid of it after awhile, but once it's back again it stays there for a long time.

Fascism is the cancer, Anti-fascism is the answer. It reminds me of this American propaganda video against the Nazi's in the 40's. Fascism hasn't changed much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8bCuNiJ-NI

[Comrade Nasser]

Fuck this, the best part of high school was torturing the emo kids.

Other way around for me, the emo kids (in junior high, and the start of high school, they don't pick on me anymore, I got big and scary) would always make fun of me and call me names usually about me being a nerd, virgin, or my race. I don't know what was with the Emo kids and race. One time in ceramics class freshmen year some emo girl started laughing at me and calling me a "sand nigger" and a "towel-head" LMFAO and the teacher heard it and that girl got her ass suspended for 3 days, had to write me a written apology, and eventually ended up having to transfer out of the school. KARMA'S A *****!

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

As long as this doesn't include furries and bronies I'm all for it.

[#FF0000]

As long as this doesn't include furries and bronies I'm all for it.

one million furries and bronies linking arms on the national mall in washington DC singing "We Will Not Be Moved"

[Paul Pott]

wow youre an asshole

that's what they said

[Invader Zim]

Well, while never a goth, my best friend in school was (and still is). Given that he is a really great guy, as are all of his mates from that scene, I never understood the attitude that some people in school had towards them. All prejudice is bizarre, I know, but still.

I guess I'm torn on this issue. If you beat someone to death surely it doesn't matter why you did it, the crime should still be the same as should the repercussions. It seems counter-productive on one level to suggest that beating a person from 'x' group to death is worse than beating a person anyone else to death. Then again, if this helps to make some twisted asshole think twice before attacking a person because of how they are dressed in future, then I guess it is a good thing.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Yeah, the goths are way worse than the emos.

But yeah the GMP is doing a good thing, for a change, fuck hate crime

A "good thing", comrade? The bourgeois state is merely trying to wash over the trash the Bourgeoisie heaps on society to keep the proles on its side.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Well, while never a goth, my best friend in school was (and still is). Given that he is a really great guy, as are all of his mates from that scene, I never understood the attitude that some people in school had towards them. All prejudice is bizarre, I know, but still.

I guess I'm torn on this issue. If you beat someone to death surely it doesn't matter why you did it, the crime should still be the same as should the repercussions. It seems counter-productive on one level to suggest that beating a person from 'x' group to death is worse than beating a person anyone else to death. Then again, if this helps to make some twisted asshole think twice before attacking a person because of how they are dressed in future, then I guess it is a good thing.

I think there's a difference between assaulting a random person for no particular reason (e.g. one could be drunk and willing to fight anyone, even a wall), and specifically targeting an individual for their mere appearance, or for their taste in music or for some other inconsequential thing that harms nobody.

In the latter I would say there is a more calculated vindictiveness that singles out those who look different, who don't look like "people like us", and I think such divisive and anti-social behaviour should be given additional opprobrium.

[Mather]

Would it not be better to consider crimes committed against people who are part of a subculture as an issue of freedom of speech and free expression, rather than a hate crime?

I ask this question because there is are two main differences between someone who belongs to a particular subculture and someone who belongs to a particular ethnicity, gender or sexuality.

The first difference being that anyone can choose to belong to a particular subculture whereas the same cannot be said of people who belong to a particular ethnicity, gender or sexuality. It is also the case that people can belong to a particular subculture for a certain amount of time and then leave it, either for another subculture or none at all. The same cannot be said of people who belong to a particular ethnicity, gender or sexuality, this is something that people are born into and they have no choice in the matter.

The second difference is that a person is drawn to a particular subculture because they feel that the particular subculture best respresents what they think and feel and by joining that particular subculture, they are expressing that.

[Mather]

I think there's a difference between assaulting a random person for no particular reason (e.g. one could be drunk and willing to fight anyone, even a wall), and specifically targeting an individual for their mere appearance, or for their taste in music or for some other inconsequential thing that harms nobody.

In the latter I would say there is a more calculated vindictiveness that singles out those who look different, who don't look like "people like us", and I think such divisive and anti-social behaviour should be given additional opprobrium.

Good point.

I would also like to add that another important difference between a person getting into a fight when they are drunk and someone who commits hate crimes is that the former is not a threat to people all of the time and when not drunk maybe a decent person whereas in the case of the latter, they are a threat to people they don't like all of the time and that their violence is not the result of intoxication or a lapse of good judgement but is calculated and deliberate.