How are then Maoists good for India?

[RadioRaheem84]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyL7IzI6pEM

Naxalites appear to be quite puritan and brutal in their tactics with the rural poor. In one scene they appear to be beating a man for consuming alcohol and disperse whole villages who will not support them.

Then blowing up schools and trains? :crying:

The movement seems rather reactionary in their methods? I mean why ban alcohol and tobacco?

[Althusser]

I support the naxalites. I'm also sure Al Jazeera has a vested interest in preventing a socialist uprising in any part of the world. The naxalites do a lot in favor of women's rights in liberated areas in an otherwise reactionary place.

[RadioRaheem84]

Surely they didn't coax all the interviewees.

[~Spectre]

How are then Maoists good for India?

They're not. Maoists are a danger to themselves, and others around them.

[$lim_$weezy]

They're not. Maoists are a danger to themselves, and others around them.

Brilliant analysis. Useful post.

My understanding is that they implement land reform and people's councils and engage in small public works projects like well-digging and such. Although I'm not sure about all their methods... huh, guess it's time to look into it more...

[RadioRaheem84]

Slim Sweezy? As in Paul Sweezy? LOL I LOVE IT!! :grin:

Best avatar ever

[RadioRaheem84]

Brilliant analysis. Useful post.

My understanding is that they implement land reform and people's councils and engage in small public works projects like well-digging and such. Although I'm not sure about all their methods... huh, guess it's time to look into it more...

Are they not being a bit unbearable to the local peasantry? I mean trials for alcohol use? :confused:

[RadioRaheem84]

They're not. Maoists are a danger to themselves, and others around them.

Would you say that most of what this video hinted is true?

[cyu]

Just happened to be looking up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalite the other day and was surprised by this part:

Naxal, Naxalite or Naksalvadi are generic terms used to refer to various militant Communist groups operating in different parts of India under different organizational envelopes. In the eastern states of the mainland India (Jharkhand, West Bengal and Odisha), they are usually known as, or refer to themselves as Maoists while in southern states like Andhra Pradesh they are known under other titles.

Even within one organization, I would expect people to behave differently, but it would seem now the term is being used to cover a wide variety of groups - loosely knit? Barely related? Not connected at all? Who knows.

Alternate views:

http://kasamaproject.org/projects/revolution-in-south-asia

http://kasamaproject.org/south-asia-revolution/2040-72arundhati-roy-walking-with-the-comrades

[RadioRaheem84]

How funny that Al Jazeera failed to mention that?

[ind_com]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyL7IzI6pEM

Naxalites appear to be quite puritan and brutal in their tactics with the rural poor. In one scene they appear to be beating a man for consuming alcohol and disperse whole villages who will not support them.

Then blowing up schools and trains? :crying:

Both allegations are false. After both the CPI(Maoist) and PCAPA denied involvement in the train derailment incident, human rights organizations have conducted their own investigations and questioned the official version of the incident by the GOI. The school destroying accusation is more frequent and has been refuted more rigorously by the likes of Arundhati Roy. The supposed schools are actually barracks for the GOI forces, with nothing in common with a school other than a signboard. Real schools in territories that Maoists capture, have been reopened and later developed, as this video shows (don't mind the dramatic narration):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imS3fMiVaYk


The movement seems rather reactionary in their methods? I mean why ban alcohol and tobacco?I haven't watched the documentary and I don't know about tobacco, but in general in some regions alcohol has a bad effect on proletarians, for example spending all money on alcohol, wife and child beating etc. So it is banned. Tobacco and even pork might be banned in certain regions due to economic reasons.

[Questionable]

I generally support Maoists but I read in a Trot magazine that leaders of a mass movement in Lalgarh wanted to participate in local elections, and the Maoists had them declared revisionist class enemies and even killed one. They also apparently banned mass organizations and broke up mass mobilizations at gunpoint.

It's probably totally false considering the source but maybe a Maoist here can shed some light on the situation.

[ind_com]

I generally support Maoists but I read in a Trot magazine that leaders of a mass movement in Lalgarh wanted to participate in local elections, and the Maoists had them declared revisionist class enemies and even killed one. They also apparently banned mass organizations and broke up mass mobilizations at gunpoint.

It's probably totally false considering the source but maybe a Maoist here can shed some light on the situation.

Can you please link me to that article? Things were not at all that simple in Lalgarh.

[Questionable]

Can you please link me to that article? Things were not at all that simple in Lalgarh.

The name of the article was "Maoism in the Global South." It was in the International Socialist Review issue 87. I can't seem to find it online. Do you want to just give me the Maoist version of the story so I can compare/contrast?

[RadioRaheem84]

I haven't watched the documentary and I don't know about tobacco, but in general in some regions alcohol has a bad effect on proletarians, for example spending all money on alcohol, wife and child beating etc. So it is banned. Tobacco and even pork might be banned in certain regions due to economic reasons.


I was with you on the first part but the second makes it sound like they're more the Taliban than freedom fighters. How about moderating its consumption or not beating the hell out of members that do consume it?

[Tim Cornelis]

I've heard someone claim they are creating popular institutions ('people's councils' as slim sweezy called it), but could not find any source for this. Could anyone provide me with those?

[ind_com]

The name of the article was "Maoism in the Global South." It was in the International Socialist Review issue 87. I can't seem to find it online. Do you want to just give me the Maoist version of the story so I can compare/contrast?

More than one movement was called mass movement in Lalgarh. The one that was really fighting against the state and system was the PCAPA, having its own militia, and participation from the CPI(Maoist) and progressive elements of other parties. There were regular clashes between these movements, each of which called itself a mass movement and the only representative of the people of Lalgarh. Leaders from both sides were killed.

Some leaders who were imprisoned by the state wanted to contest the elections, and many debates were raised inside the Maoist movement as well. After a few months the CPI(Maoist) unambiguously boycotted the elections, but at the lower level, some confusion remained. This was later thought to be because of infiltration by the state, as many revolutionary leaders were killed under suspicious circumstances, and some who remained untouched surrendered, reversing their politics overnight. The killings done on the side of the PCAPA and the CPI(Maoist) were justified on the grounds of the victims being spies or mercenaries of the state, but never as people who wanted to contest elections.

[ind_com]

I was with you on the first part but the second makes it sound like they're more the Taliban than freedom fighters. How about moderating its consumption or not beating the hell out of members that do consume it?

Moderation/banning vary regionwise and depending on circumstances.In many places, alcohol consumption is a part of popular culture and is not associated with personal corruption, for example, traditional wines in tribal societies. In these regions, Maoists don't interfere in alcohol consumption. But in some places, it is very dangerous for workers, as I mentioned earlier. The cheapest alcohol consumed most frequently by workers is actually filtered industrial alcohol, which often contains traces of methanol and pyridine, and poisons thousands to death in India each year. Since Maoists in those regions come mostly from those worker families and have been abused by their alcoholic husband or father, they deal with the issue very swiftly and effectively. Beatings might seem a bit crude, but alcoholism itself causes so many acts of violence, that sometimes it is necessary to be that firm to stop it quickly.

[ind_com]

I've heard someone claim they are creating popular institutions ('people's councils' as slim sweezy called it), but could not find any source for this. Could anyone provide me with those?

You will not find any mention of this in the Indian media, because they have a tendency to label all the people's assemblies of those councils as "people's courts".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/patna/Maoists-resort-to-Jan-Adalat-to-retain-foothold-in-Gaya-district/articleshow/19234185.cms

The people's councils are the organs of the people's government, or Janathana Sarkar, as we call it. These are the power structures for the working classes to exercise their democratic dictatorship. They usually comprise the whole of the population of the working classes and take regional decisions concerning production, construction, education and healthcare facilities, cultural programmes, military etc.

[Sir Comradical]

I don't agree with their anti alcohol/tobacco puritanism but I think for the most part these punishments are meted out when wives complain to the Naxals about abusive drunk husbands. At least that's what I've heard from my cousins in India who are somewhat sympathetic to their cause.

[Art Vandelay]

In fairness I started a thread not long ago about this very documentary and a Maoist responded by highlighting the very big issue of alcoholism in certain peasant communities in India (ie: making very strong home brew, getting shit faced constantly, small children getting drunk), that being said I find their use of beatings with large sticks to be both idiotically ineffective for what they are attempting to do and vicious.

[Akshay!]

Check out Arundhati Roy's article about the Maoists/Naxalites - h ttp://w ww.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264738

[RadioRaheem84]

Exactly. What is with the rather arcane way of whipping people who are accused of alcoholism? I understand that it's probably moonshine stuff that's borderline toxic and can lead to drunked behavior, abusive relationships and child drunkeness, but their methods on dealing with the problem are wrong.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

How funny that Al Jazeera failed to mention that?

I liked the part when they said "the world's largest democracy".

[Art Vandelay]

Exactly. What is with the rather arcane way of whipping people who are accused of alcoholism? I understand that it's probably moonshine stuff that's borderline toxic and can lead to drunked behavior, abusive relationships and child drunkeness, but their methods on dealing with the problem are wrong.

The only conclusion I can come to is that it is an expression of reactionary elements within the Naxalite movement.

[RadioRaheem84]

I liked the part when they said "the world's largest democracy".

I've noticed a lot of people in the mainstream media saying this. I always look at them and think well if that is "democracy" then it explains the US and Iraq.

Seriously, they complain about Communism but then have the nerve to talk about liberal democracies as being better, but name India as the world's largest "democracy". If you point out the corruption, the utter back breaking poverty and environmental degradation, they'll think we're insulting their integrity or call us racist.

This defense of liberal democracies as being "imperfect" but better than any alternative is such a canard.

[keystone]

Alcoholism is a huge problem for people worldwide and in India, not just those affected and particularly women. China had a similar problem with opium addiction that affected tens of millions when the revolution happened. The revolutionaries were able to wipe out addiction in the whole country. It is a common saying that in the ghettos of the United States you can still find a liquor store and a church on every corner (even when resources like supermarkets and community centers have long disappeared). Marx said religion is the opiate of the masses - today for millions, opiates (or alcohol or SSRIs) are a religion upon which they depend daily for relief from a heartless world.

This is different from the War on Drugs ideology in the US that criminalizes millions of people. The US has enslaved a section of the proletariat through prison slave labor and chain gangs, using drugs as an excuse for locking up poor people. The Naxalites are mobilizing people, particularly women, to address the social problems they face directly.

[Delenda Carthago]

How funny that Al Jazeera failed to mention that?
How funny is that we take Al Jazeera's word on a communist guerilla army?


And no, I am not a fan of maoism. Quite the contrary. But I m not gonna get informed by the capitalist media about them.

[kashkin]

I can't say I know much about the Maoists, but I am not a big fan of guerrilla warfare strategies. However, they seem to have an actual base among the rural poor, who are horribly treated, and they seem to be doing a much better job than the mainstream Communist parties.


The only conclusion I can come to is that it is an expression of reactionary elements within the Naxalite movement.

Quite probable.

[RadioRaheem84]

The only conclusion I can come to is that it is an expression of reactionary elements within the Naxalite movement.

Then how strong is their commitment to socialism?

[Deliverous]

War is not easy. Tactical mistakes are often made. I do not agree with banning alcohol or smoking in such a case, but that is no reason to reject the entire struggle. We need to try and overcome these less important issues and decide, fundamentally, whether you agree with their political objectives. If you do, balance the negatives and the positives, then make a decision.