the aryan brotherhood is shooting government officials in texas...

[Sasha]

yet no'one is clasifying them as terrorists, how strange...

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/01/justice/texas-da-killed/index.html

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

How soon till we get to fight back?

[Os Cangaceiros]

Well to be fair there are non-white criminal gangs in jail and elsewhere that aren't classified as "terrorists", either.

[Sasha]

but those are not actively targeting prosecutors and their family in retaliation hits last time i checked.

it was also more a reference to the ridiculous clasification of the ELF/ALF as the major domestic terrorist thread while doing only property damage while the extreme right is shooting and bombing people about every other month.
its not that i want to see the AB leadership shipped to gitmo (although i wouldnt care really about it either) its just that its painfully obvious how terrorism classifications are about protecting capitals interests not saving human lives.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think the violence of the AB actually makes more sense to people, and that's why you don't see the "terrorism" label really applied to such activities. They're a criminal gang involved in the drug trade, and their violence is a practical extension of that. Whereas the motives for the ELF/ALF's violence are more political and esoteric, even if they don't harm human life, hence the "terrorism" label.

The situation of the AB leadership is actually not far from being in Gitmo, they're in ADX Florence, a prison where you do not want to be.

[DROSL]

I don't think they can label them as terrorists. At least they could use the R.I.C.O. act.

[Sasha]

I don't think they can label them as terrorists. At least they could use the R.I.C.O. act.

They did, that's why they are getting shot.

[MarxArchist]

How soon till we get to fight back?
I don't think communists fighting prison gangs that kill members of the oppressive state apparatus is something we should focus on in the slightest. I know they're racist but I would think the state has their entire body of both federal and local authorities on the case. If they were killing, lets say, Jewish or black people in the community that might be a different ball of wax but oddly enough within the prison system prison gangs kill more people of their own 'race' than they do other 'races' unless it's a riot situation. Also, messing with the Aryan Brotherhood isn't like showing up at a bone head rally to oppose their message, it's a bit more serious with a strong likelihood of you being murdered.

[Tim Cornelis]

I don't think communists fighting prison gangs that kill members of the oppressive state apparatus is something we should focus on in the slightest. I know they're racist but I would think the state has their entire body of both federal and local authorities on the case. If they were killing, lets say, Jewish or black people in the community that might be a different ball of wax but oddly enough within the prison system prison gangs kill more people of their own 'race' than they do other 'races' unless it's a riot situation. Also, messing with the Aryan Brotherhood isn't like showing up at a bone head rally to oppose their message, it's a bit more serious with a strong likelihood of you being murdered.

Additionally, certain hispanic gangs are more racist as they are engaged in the ethnic cleansing of neighbourhoods. So why prioritise white nationalists over the more deadly, more racist hispanic gangs.

[MarxArchist]

Additionally, certain hispanic gangs are more racist as they are engaged in the ethnic cleansing of neighbourhoods. So why prioritise white nationalists over the more deadly, more racist hispanic gangs.
I heard that's happening in LA and other South West regions. It's all based in prison 'politics' or waring between Hispanics and blacks in prison and the more people the state throws into prisons the more people end up with the segregationist/racist prison mentality. Black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Samoan etc. Even the police and prison guards are adopting the mentality. The children they put in juvenile hall and Youth Authority jails. It's one giant racism factory. By design? It sure makes solidarity amongst the working class an uphill battle. The state/capitalism benefits tremendously from throwing millions of people in jails and prisons. Economically, socially (for them), systemically. It a part of keeping the system running smooth not so much for public safety. Not so much at all.

[Hermes]

I don't think communists fighting prison gangs that kill members of the oppressive state apparatus is something we should focus on in the slightest. I know they're racist but I would think the state has their entire body of both federal and local authorities on the case. If they were killing, lets say, Jewish or black people in the community that might be a different ball of wax but oddly enough within the prison system prison gangs kill more people of their own 'race' than they do other 'races' unless it's a riot situation. Also, messing with the Aryan Brotherhood isn't like showing up at a bone head rally to oppose their message, it's a bit more serious with a strong likelihood of you being murdered.

I might be misreading his post entirely, but I thought he was saying that the AB, as a group, is allowed to fight without the terrorist label, but if we were to, then we'd be labeled terrorists. i.e. when can we fight against the state.

(again, it's entirely possible that you're right and I'm 100% wrong)

I'm actually kind of surprised that the AB has managed to last as long as it has, to be honest.

[homegrown terror]

if the WP's and the pigs keep taking each other out, that'll just weaken the overall opposition and make a leftist revolution that much easier. as the killings ramp up, i can't see the population being sympathetic on a whole towards either camp, so that might ground-level generate more support for us as well.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'm actually kind of surprised that the AB has managed to last as long as it has, to be honest.

They're actually very clever in how they communicate. The AB's leaders are both locked up in the most secure prison in the country, and they still manage to get orders out to their subordinates all over the country. They'll OK hits carried out in Indiana from a prison cell in Colorado. It's kind of crazy when you think about it.

[Art Vandelay]

They're actually very clever in how they communicate. The AB's leaders are both locked up in the most secure prison in the country, and they still manage to get orders out to their subordinates all over the country. They'll OK hits carried out in Indiana from a prison cell in Colorado. It's kind of crazy when you think about it.

Its a highly centralized group as well, which makes me wonder how the fuck do they organize these get togethers with the leadership all present? They must have access to a shit load of money and some corrupt officials to make that happen.

[cyu]

The Aryan Brotherhood took over the police in Greece - err, excuse me, make that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Dawn_%28Greece%29

[MP5]

The AB are fucking dirtbag Neo-Nazis yes but they are first and foremost a gang intent on making money primarily through the drug trade and taking on contract hit's. Various mob's in the US use them to do dirty work that no mobster will even touch. They arent dangerous because they are smart and have connections they are dangerous because they are stupid fucking tweekers with nothing to lose. They are also very disorganized and don't have the same hierarchy as say the Italian Mafia or even Russian Mafia does. They don't need to be told to kill most of them are psychos who would cut their own mothers throat for a pack of smokes.

All the same i have absolutely no sympathy for DA's or any other elected officials in the US or any other country. So why not let these rednecks kill as many of them as possible and take the heat for it as well? I kind of see it as killing 2 birds with 1 stone. Let fascists kill fascists who the fuck cares.

[Crux]

hriakOH9gwE

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think Texas prisons are desegregated, I don't know, but they are segregated racially in California and that actually helps develop gangs. For example, people in California are allowed to choose red or blue bandanas and of course these are the colors for both the crips/bloods and the nortenos/surenos. While the crips/bloods developed out of street gangs based originally on combating white gangs opposed to black migration to cities like LA or later (and specifically the Bloods/Crips) to push out the drug dealers (ironically), a lot of the WP gangs and the Nor/Surs developed inside the prisons and expanded from there. So at any rate, I'm not convinced by the Young Turks's argument that race-based gangs came out of desegregating prisons since they developed before that and in California where official segregation was legal until a few years ago (though it continues both through legal loopholes as well as informally in social settings through the prison gang system).

In general I think the prison system tolerates/enables the gangs because it actually helps them manage inmates and additionally justifies collective punishment of groups of prisoners. For the gangs, the racial or regional organizing basis helps divide up contraband trade because it sets up the boundaries for customers and black market commerce by race (which means you can have distribution networks whereas if gangs based themselves on cell blocks, then they'd have difficulty maintaining). So I would agree that this is a case of racist chickens coming home to roost for the prison system.

But the hypocrisy that the OP pointed out is also very true. There's a sort of general racist view in the mainstream where violence by (arab and sometimes American black) Muslims must be "irrational" religious violence; black and latino violence are because these kids are "supercriminal" sociopaths without remorse, but white biker gangs and WP gangs are rationally just trying to get money even if we don't approve of how.

There's also a downplaying of racist terrorism in the US. There have been numerous cases in the last few years, militias and racist groups have increased, and actual attacks have also increased. In Oakland a (as far as I know) non-racist reactionary was in a shootout with police. He was driving to San Francisco to shoot up the ACLU. His reasoning was that Glenn Beck argued that these people are destroying America. And yet religious people in NYC can't make a community center because they are Muslim. Oakland City Council members called Occupy Oakland "domestic terrorism" and yet Glenn Beck talks on and white racist terror is "just a few lone-wolf nuts".


They're actually very clever in how they communicate. The AB's leaders are both locked up in the most secure prison in the country, and they still manage to get orders out to their subordinates all over the country. They'll OK hits carried out in Indiana from a prison cell in Colorado. It's kind of crazy when you think about it.In california, cell phones, burners, are pretty common contraband inside prisons and probably as easy to get as drugs... maybe even easier because it's the guards who are mostly providing them or acting as the middle-men for gangs.

[MP5]

Well one easy way to communicate in prison is to make "kites". This is where you take some string out of your boxers or whatever, tie a button on it along with a note and pass it to the nearest cell and it get's passed down the block from there. Pretty smart if you think about it. Cell phones are a wee bit harder to get but you can get them especially if you have a friendly guard who doesn't mind making abit of cash on the side.

[Os Cangaceiros]

In california, cell phones, burners, are pretty common contraband inside prisons and probably as easy to get as drugs... maybe even easier because it's the guards who are mostly providing them or acting as the middle-men for gangs.

They communicate with encoded letters out of supermax, as I think that telecommunications of any kind is forbidden there. I know they arranged that one AB member's (who murdered a prison guard) cell was specially designed so that he had zero human contact whatsoever.

[bcbm]

former prisoners dire warning: americas prisons turning out violent white supremacists 'mentally fighting civil war' (http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/former-prisoners-dire-warning-americas-prisons-turning-out-violent-white)


How soon till we get to fight back?

ha