Is Juche leftist?

[Slippers]

I have recently read the book "The Cleanest Race" by BR Myers. Among other things the author argues that North Korean ideology is only outwardly leftist, and that it resembles far more closely the nationalist, racist, far-right ideology of Imperial Japan.

It was an interesting read, but I don't claim to know for sure if it's "right" or not. It's a subject I'm fascinated by but don't fully understand.

Back to the question: is "Juche"/North Korean political ideology leftist? Is the regime in power leftist? I think probably not really, but what do I know?

[Comrade Alex]

While true that the juche is a hyped up version of Korean nationalism they can still be considered leftist because Kim il Sung still profesed socialism in his creation of the juche although they have tried to move away from leftism they can still be considered socialist just not Marxis-Leninist
Are they far right no of course not is it possible thier moving to the center perhaps
When it comes to the DPRK its really hard to tell

[Lokomotive293]

I have recently read the book "The Cleanest Race" by BR Myers. Among other things the author argues that North Korean ideology is only outwardly leftist, and that it resembles far more closely the nationalist, racist, far-right ideology of Imperial Japan.

It was an interesting read, but I don't claim to know for sure if it's "right" or not. It's a subject I'm fascinated by but don't fully understand.

Back to the question: is "Juche"/North Korean political ideology leftist? Is the regime in power leftist? I think probably not really, but what do I know?

"Right-wing" and "left-wing" are pretty useless categories in scientific analysis, to be honest. And in order to determine wether someone is reactionary or progressive you need to look at the material conditions, i.e. political economy and class analysis, looking at the ideology isolated from everything else is quite un-Marxist. That being said, I consider North Korea anti-Imperialist, but other than that, I am way too uninformed to have a definite opinion.

[Comrade #138672]

I don't think North Korea is very leftist.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Juche is the revisionist ideology of "Kimilsungism" stripped of its Marxist rhetoric. As such, it is certainly not "leftist" in the sense of belonging to the international revolutionary socialist movement. Its economic policies, however, place it to the far left of what is usually considered the "civilised" Left in Europe and the Americas.

I would also be very cautious about attributing racism to the DPR Korea; as far as I know, there is no real evidence that racism exists there (and indeed, an association of Japanese persons is part of the DFRF.)

[GoddessCleoLover]

Juche ideology is no more Leftist than was ancient Sparta. Labor camps. "military first" policies etcetera seem far Rightist. As a practical. political matter endorsing or even condoning Juche ideology will only serve to discredit Leftists among workers who want no part of the draconian statist ideologies of which Juche is one extreme example.

[Forward Union]

It has far more in common with a sort of Feudal Confusian dynasty than anything remotely Socialist, and it doesn't claim anything more. It might be left of certain theocratic fifedoms that existed over 3000 years ago.

Anyone who supports this vile dictatorship of poverty is guilty of the most pathetic showcasing - both a moral and startegic idiot.

[Lokomotive293]

Labor camps. "military first" policies etcetera seem far Rightist.

See, that is what I was talking about. Without giving any opinion on North Korea, I am saying that if we fail to make a difference between form and content, if we confuse base and superstructure, we fail to be Marxists. Because, if we ignore the content and only superficially look at the form, we will come to the conclusion that left equals right, socialism equals fascism, apples equal pears, and cows are just the same as cars.

[The Jay]

Juche ideology is no more Leftist than was ancient Sparta. Labor camps. "military first" policies etcetera seem far Rightist. As a practical. political matter endorsing or even condoning Juche ideology will only serve to discredit Leftists among workers who want no part of the draconian statist ideologies of which Juche is one extreme example.

I had never considered the comparison between the DPRK and Sparta. It makes perfect sense though. Now that I'm thinking about it I wonder what Plato or Aristotle would have thought a bout the DPRK.

[GoddessCleoLover]

I would surmise that both Plato and Aristotle would consider the DPRK tyrannical. I can't envision Plato considering Kim Jong Un to be a philosopher-king.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

I would surmise that both Plato and Aristotle would consider the DPRK tyrannical. I can't envision Plato considering Kim Jong Un to be a philosopher-king.

I would disagree, hero worship was a core aspect of Greek culture and philosophy, and in a literal sense Kim Il Sung was a philosopher king who did do his best to benefit his people. After all you need to remember that North Korea was almost close to becoming a first world nation in the 80's before it's trade was cut off from the rest of the world. (Note, this is not me endorsing their political system in any way)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

It matters little whether we can pigeon-hole something as 'left' or 'right'. Especially as it wasn't us, the Marxists, the communists and the anarchists, who defined the left-right spectrum. As such we shouldn't really force ourselves to defend, legitimise or excuse something because it conforms to a description of something that we have been tagged to, that has been created by those thoroughly opposed to our political philosophy.

A better, and perhaps more relevant question, might be: is Juche pro-working class? And the answer to that question has to be a resounding no. And as such, we really should not be aligning ourselves with or in any way legitimising the Juche ideology that is used as justification for a country that, whilst we know little about, what we do know of it points to an autocratic, nepotistic, militarised, capitalist state. Why should we support that shit?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I would disagree, hero worship was a core aspect of Greek culture and philosophy, and in a literal sense Kim Il Sung was a philosopher king who did do his best to benefit his people. After all you need to remember that North Korea was almost close to becoming a first world nation in the 80's before it's trade was cut off from the rest of the world. (Note, this is not me endorsing their political system in any way)


Tyrants also say that they do their "best" for their people, but Plato and Aristotle saw them as lacking in virtue. I doubt very much that Aristotle or Plato would have seen the Kims as virtuous enough to be philosopher kings (unless they believe all the state propaganda).

[Jimmie Higgins]

Anyone who supports this vile dictatorship of poverty is guilty of the most pathetic showcasing - both a moral and startegic idiot.I think this case can be made politically and without resorting to namecalling and so while this is still an open question, for some, please refrain from insulting people whose views you disagree with.

[garrus]

I don't think idealistic metaphysical clusterfucks relate to scientific socialism that much.

[Narodnik]

Is state capitalism leftist?

[Red Nightmare]

I wouldn't consider Juche leftist, it is basically North Korean nationalism and a cult of personality around the Kim dynasty. Nothing revolutionary or liberating to the working class about that.