my theory

[captain anarchy]

in the words of anti-flag you are only born so you can die.


theres no point to life you are born and have very few moments of happiness the rest is suffering and hurt and misery then you die and have nothing to prove. theres no heaven no hell you just don't exist and are gone.

that is my therory on life. sorry about the not existing puncuation and good grammar.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

No problem.


I agree btw.

[Rob]

I kinda think like that sometimes. I guess that the point to life is striving to get as many of those happy moments in as you can. At least if you don't think that there's anything after we die anyway.

[ComradeRed]

Isn't this existentialism? Do what you want cause your gonna die anyways?

[captain anarchy]

i guess yeah theres no after life no judgment after you are dead so i guess yeah do what you want live life to the fullest or you can save your self the shitty times hurt and pain by placing a gun to the roof of your mouth and pull the trigger like i want to or do what ever you feel the need to it your life do what you want.

[truthaddict11]

very surprising on someone who is against abortion, as much as to advocate violence against those who get them, would have such a low opinion on life in general. <_<

this topic more belongs in Philosophy, I&#39;m moving it.

[Aky]

I believe philosophy (or actually, theology) in general is just bs. I mean, we are just animals like every other species, no different, only a bit smarter. Therefore we make up things like Gods and religion, just to hold on to that little breath of thought into the "there is a meaning behind it all" thing. That is bs. We should do whatever we want as long as it makes us happy. We are not controlled by some sort of spirit or what not.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

When you really start thinking you will realise life is actually quite good if you want it to be. Leave the nihilism to Schopeneaur.

Existensialism isnt a philosophy of &#39;life is hit and you die&#39;, its a philosophy of liberation.

[captain anarchy]

i was against abortion i suport it now i think its ultimately the womens body and she has the right to choose to keep the kid or not. i don&#39;t think its a exuse to not be careful in sex though you should still be carefull don&#39;t just mate kill repeat i think it should only be used for good not a form of birth control. and i don&#39;t like the fact that its murder i think everything should have a chance to see the world and life. but its the womens body she makes the desitions.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

There is no god, there is no afterlife, there is no meaning of life.

[captain anarchy]

heres some stuff i wrote on my theory


The solution to life

There’s no point to life we are born to die.
That’s why it confuses me when it makes people cry.
Death brings comfort it ends all the grief.
That’s why suicide is known as relief.
There’s no such release that brings you to peace.
The suicide count will always increase.
That’s cause suicide will let you release.
Because death will always bring you to peace.



Atheist’s world

Turn to ash to be blown away like dust.
We all get buried in the earth’s crust.
Nothing happens to us when we die.
Just lots of people start to cry.
No heaven above or hell below.
This is something atheists know.
Every Sunday church bells will ring.
Do you know how much misery that those bring?
The bibles are lies.
They are something I despise.
Religion is bad it causes strife.
If your faith is strong enough the preacher controls your life.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

all spot on

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by captain [email protected] 5 2004, 06:28 PM
i was against abortion i suport it now i think its ultimately the womens body and she has the right to choose to keep the kid or not. i don&#39;t think its a exuse to not be careful in sex though you should still be carefull don&#39;t just mate kill repeat i think it should only be used for good not a form of birth control. and i don&#39;t like the fact that its murder i think everything should have a chance to see the world and life. but its the womens body she makes the desitions.
thats strange because in a topic this week you said in a comment about abortion that those people should have thier heads beaten in with a lead pipe. so expLain your stance now?

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by captain [email protected] 4 2004, 08:59 PM
in the words of anti-flag you are only born so you can die.


theres no point to life you are born and have very few moments of happiness the rest is suffering and hurt and misery then you die and have nothing to prove. theres no heaven no hell you just don&#39;t exist and are gone.

that is my therory on life. sorry about the not existing puncuation and good grammar.
I can&#39;t say I fully agree, but all I can say is that you must have a pathetic life.

[Sabocat]

Death is not a purpose, it&#39;s an inevitable conclusion. Don&#39;t confuse the two. There are infinite possibilities between point A and B.

Suicide is a permanant fix for a temporary problem. Suicide takes away all the opportunity to see what few truly great things there are to see and do.

You&#39;re only mission in life, is to experience as much of it as you can. There is no afterlife, no one on their deathbed ever says..."gee...I wish I had spent more time at the office".

Find something that gives you a purpose for getting out of bed in the morning other than some pile of shit job.

[Trissy]

I agree that there is no objective meaning to life but I&#39;d say we can all find subjective meanings to our lives. There may be no god and no afterlife but that doesn&#39;t stop us trying to look for a personal meaning to life in the present. Many people live for the future and some get stuck in the past but I feel we can only find meaning in the here and now. It&#39;s the at the crux of the argument put forward by Existentialism...to face life as it is now and to abandon any easy answers you may find in things like religion.

As for suicide being a relief, I think that since it lack a future it also lacks any meaning. Suicide is just skipping to the end of the story. Do not pass go, do not collect £200

[ComradeRobertRiley]

There is no purpose - disgustapated


find subjective meanings? whats the point? - Trissy

[Trissy]

Well that&#39;s for you to find out. Some find meaning to life in providing things for there children, some find it in taking an active part in politics and trying to change the world, many find it in enjoying the beauty in this world whilst trying to minimise the suffering we see. Some just find meaning in their own searching and philosophising.

Maybe you find meaning in stating that life has no meaning? Who am I to say.

I also think that just because we may find no reason for living, it doesn&#39;t mean we have a reason to die. I can see many reasons where suicide is a likely way out, but not just because we can&#39;t see meaning to a life with no afterlife and a certain death.

[Sabocat]

There is no purpose - disgustapated

If that&#39;s true and that&#39;s how you feel, then explain your avatar. Why would you be encouraging anyone to join anything? What&#39;s the point? Obviously you felt compelled by some purpose to put it there.

Why do you/did you go to school?
Why do you eat food or drink water?
Why do you sleep?
Why are you contributing to any topic on an internet message board?

Nihilism makes for a long dreary existance my friend.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 02:04 PM
I believe philosophy (or actually, theology) in general is just bs. I mean, we are just animals like every other species, no different, only a bit smarter. Therefore we make up things like Gods and religion, just to hold on to that little breath of thought into the "there is a meaning behind it all" thing. That is bs. We should do whatever we want as long as it makes us happy. We are not controlled by some sort of spirit or what not.
i m not trying to be an ass.... but ..... rejecting philosophy is in fact a faction of philosophy.

Laozi&#39;s Dao de Jiang in fact elucidated the un-importance of philosophy and stresses "doing nothing as to accord to the spontaneity of the universe" is the way to go .. he even proposed "the abandon of language" , but his philosophy is criticised as antithetical to what he said, if u know what i mean. :)

[Wenty]

The old meaning of life question is as old as the hills.

My view is in part keeping with the existentalist doctrine put forward mainly by sartre and camus. The philosophy of the absurd. The fact of the matter is if you don&#39;t believe in God there is no meaning to life. You have to accept full responsibility for your actions in a world devoid of purpose. My view is that life can be devoid of purpose even with a belief in god but forget that for the moment.

Both camus and sartre reject suicide. Camus says it is merely giving into the absurd, sartre says that your death would be just as superfluous as your existence so what are we to do once we are aware of the absurd? My view is strongly in keeping with camus&#39; idea of a position of revolt. Life is cruel, life can be stolen from you at any time, any place so you have to live life to the fullest.

I also agree with Geist, existenalism is a philosophy of liberation. I&#39;d rather be aware of it then unaware. Better to be Socrates dissatisifed then a pig satisfied.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2004, 05:45 PM

There is no purpose - disgustapated

If that&#39;s true and that&#39;s how you feel, then explain your avatar. Why would you be encouraging anyone to join anything? What&#39;s the point? Obviously you felt compelled by some purpose to put it there.

Why do you/did you go to school?
Why do you eat food or drink water?
Why do you sleep?
Why are you contributing to any topic on an internet message board?

Nihilism makes for a long dreary existance my friend.
I went to school because i was forced to.

I eat/drink because I have animal instinct to survive.

I sleep because I like it (one of my fav things to do in spare time).

I contribute because I have no life, it gives something to do/pass the time.

[Dirty Commie]

The meaning of life the universe and everything is 42. The question is 6 times 7.
Read the Douglas Adams books.

Other than that, I hate life, I&#39;m miserable 23 hours everyday. Living in constant fear with the fact that there is no afterlife and that death will be the end of the few, good, enjoyable moments one has. Atheism is straining both phsically and mentally, it is hard to cope with the truth, religion is the answer, believing with every ounce of strength that death is not the end, only another beginning is the easy way out.

I know that this sounds like existentialism but I am an adamant supporter of communism because I want others to be able to enjoy their lives more than I enjoy mine (with the exceptions of racists, homophobes, etc.)

If that pass for philosophy, than it is mine.

[captain anarchy]

i said those who abandon and abuse kids and babys should be beaten with lead pipes learn to read or at least pay attention to the words don&#39;t fall down the path of stupid people by taking sertain words that stand out and place them next to other words that stand out instead of reading and paying attention i don&#39;t use complex terms its not that hard to understand

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by Dirty [email protected] 7 2004, 01:30 AM
The meaning of life the universe and everything is 42. The question is 6 times 7.
Read the Douglas Adams books.

Other than that, I hate life, I&#39;m miserable 23 hours everyday. Living in constant fear with the fact that there is no afterlife and that death will be the end of the few, good, enjoyable moments one has. Atheism is straining both phsically and mentally, it is hard to cope with the truth, religion is the answer, believing with every ounce of strength that death is not the end, only another beginning is the easy way out.

I know that this sounds like existentialism but I am an adamant supporter of communism because I want others to be able to enjoy their lives more than I enjoy mine (with the exceptions of racists, homophobes, etc.)

If that pass for philosophy, than it is mine.
i agree :(


Sometimes it seems for me........its too much for me to take

[Dirty Commie]

Just think of tequila and the delicious worm at the bottom for a reward.
Don&#39;t make me feel bad, I&#39;m experiencing what most would called depresssion, but for me I&#39;m quite happy.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

LOL, I love tekilla, but I think with the worm in is banned in Europe.

[Rasta Sapian]

to be alive is a blessing&#33;
try giving thanks and praise for your life.
you can make a difference, spead positivity to others you meet, both friends and strangers

If you beleive that your place on earth is to become fertilizer for future life to grow, that is your perogitive&#33;
however life is a gift, make the best of it&#33;

Life could be alot worse for many of us, so be thankfull for what you already have&#33;

"The glass is half full, and its scotch, drink er up&#33;" Studley McDruck


peace yall

[Sabocat]

Atheism is straining both phsically and mentally, it is hard to cope with the truth

Atheism should be enlightening. It removes all the shackles to a fairy tale dogma. Once you realize that there is nothing after this, it frees you to concentrate on what is really important. Self fulfillment.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 06:29 PM
Self fulfillment.
Mastabation?

[Sabocat]

Originally posted by ComradeRobertRiley+Jan 7 2004, 04:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ComradeRobertRiley @ Jan 7 2004, 04:00 PM)
[email protected] 7 2004, 06:29 PM
Self fulfillment.
Mastabation? [/b]
LOL...yes....if that&#39;s what does it for you. :lol:

[ComradeRobertRiley]

LOL yep.


Being single is horrible, was engaged once, with here for a year and half, no im single :(

No sex for me&#33;

[airavata]

Originally posted by captain [email protected] 5 2004, 12:59 AM
in the words of anti-flag you are only born so you can die.


theres no point to life you are born and have very few moments of happiness the rest is suffering and hurt and misery then you die and have nothing to prove. theres no heaven no hell you just don&#39;t exist and are gone.

that is my therory on life. sorry about the not existing puncuation and good grammar.
There is a point to life. Your point of view is excessively morbid. There is nothing beyond this life, so if we wish to accomplish something we must do it now, not mope about how life is a decadent dream of insufferable pain.
It&#39;s the individual who decides the course of his life, no other force can control the direction he takes. I refute destiny and fate, they&#39;re baubles held up by the hordes of inadequacy who yearn self satisfaction. Your fate is in your hands. If you fail to accomplish what you wish, it&#39;s your fault.

Hurt and misery can be controlled. Most just sit and whinge. What are you saying? That there&#39;s no point to life as it&#39;s all a canvas of pain pockmarked by a few blobs of happiness? Bullshit. You control what happens to you... none else. If youre happy, it&#39;s your doing. If youre unhappy, it&#39;s your doing.

You may die, but you will never cease to have existed.

[communist_comrade]

hey all....i just had to disagree with captain anarchy....the bible isnt a lie..im not sure the meaning of life but i just find it angering :angry: to hear you say that ....im not a really religious person..i dont go to church every sunday but i do believe and worship God and Christ.

[LSD]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 03:38 AM
hey all....i just had to disagree with captain anarchy....the bible isnt a lie..im not sure the meaning of life but i just find it angering :angry: to hear you say that ....im not a really religious person..i dont go to church every sunday but i do believe and worship God and Christ.

That&#39;s all well and good, but since you can&#39;t find me a trace of independent evidence to confirm the bible&#39;s story, accept the fact that not everyone here is prepared to believe your stories of Christ and giants and the end of the world just because they&#39;re written about in some book. There is absolutely no evidence that Jesus Christ even existed&#33; If you want to believe in Christianity fine, but don&#39;t critrisize others for not believing in it when they have the forces of logic, history, and reason to back them up.

[captain anarchy]

the life of jesus is a complete mocery and an act of plagerism of the life of the son of zues in paganism wich was around before christiantity. all god and christianity brought was raceism and homophobia i will now quote your bible to prove the homophobia


" thou shall not lay next to a man as thou would a woman"

the bible&#39;s excuse for the quote above is another quote from the bible.

" be fruitfull and multiply"

just cause man and women are the opposit sex does not mean that they have to be attracted to be right. homosex is a beautiful thing and is just as ok as heterosex. to say that homosexuality is wrong is wrong homosexuals are people just like staight people they are just with different likes. not even all staights aree attracted to the same type of men or women they all have their own likings in the opposit sex so what is wrong with a guy loveing a guy or being married to a guy or the same for a woman loving a women and being married to a woman. the bible dispises of sodomy and i despise of the bible. in many churches they teach that if you are not white you are scum that is wrong to we are all human and for a suposed house of god to teach different well i spit at those shallow close minded fuckers. that is why the bible is bad it influenced those things.

[MysticArcher]

I think my friend put it best when he said christianity is a religion whose sole focus is civil disobedience against an empire that no longer exists (Rome) and since the fall of Rome christianity has been wandering around aimlessly

because when you think about it, the pointless rules everyone argues about today, like captain anarchy pointed out with homosexuality, are just relics from when christianty was trying to oppose Rome

[communist_comrade]

im back....now i just wanted to confirm everything...im not criticizing you for what you believe i was simply expressing my opinion like you did yours...and another thing one of you that was CRITICIZING me about what i said mentioned they had logic on their side...answer me this then...why and how are we here? huh tell me who made us? .....now captain anarchy i dont have a problem with you..i was simply expressing what i felt and i had no intention of offending you... so live long comrade :D


Communist_comrade..

[hawarameen]

its kinda existentialism but that doesnt mean that ther&#39;s no point to life you have a purpose in life, its up to you to decide the purpose of your life and not up to some bloke called jesus or mohammed who happened to be around thousands of years ago.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I contribute because I have no life, it gives something to do/pass the time.

So you&#39;re a psuedo-Marxist or whatever the hell you claim to be.


Existensialism is not a depressing philosophy, Dostoevsky put it best in relation to your comments about God:

&#39;If God does not exist, anything is permitted&#39;.

I believe captain anachy judging by the fact that you listen to anti-flag and write little poems that suck that you are young and obviously pessimistic.

Stop wasting your time, I guarantee you will look back at this stage of your life and think, &#39;Man was I gay&#39;.

[Corvus Corax]

Life is the Absurd

Albert Camus

The Outsider - The Myth of Sisyphus

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Um yeah what about them?

[Wenty]

Camus and the absurd have already been mentioned in this argument. By me incidentally.

A more important question that he raises i think is how to live while aware of the absurd. For an atheist this is an important question since its no good wallowing in it. A position of revolt has to be in place&#33;

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

All this reminds of how wrong Sartre&#39;s view of freedom is.

[Wenty]

why do you think that? i thought it made good sense myself.

I can really empathise with this quote from him too:-

"I am abandoned in the world, not in the sense that I might remain abandoned and passive in a hostile universe like a board floating on the water but rather in the sense that I find myself suddenly alone and without help, engaged in a world for which I bear the whole responsibility without being able to tear myself away from this responsibility for an instant"

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Sartre elevates freedom to only grand choices, I would subscribe to Isiah Berlin&#39;s twin concepts of leiberty, i.e. negative and positive liberty rather than &#39;existensialist freedom&#39; which along with their emphasis on angst can only be described as rubbish.

Existensialism is the philosophy of those who havent found Nietzsche and those who can&#39;t spell transcendental.

[Individual]

CaptainAnarchy... I am definetely going to have to agree w/ Disgustapated on this one.. What he/she wrote questioning why...? This was similar to my question to you; difference in being he did it logically as to not persuade you into doing the regretable.. Obviosly I do not know your everyday, but CaptainAnarchy I have come across a few in your stance.. And they all seem to be begging for attention. This is human nature, and like someone said, that is your meaning in life. You have something in your head drving you to suffer. When in reality you are doing it to yourself.

You are what you make of yourself. Please do not preach to society about life has no meaning. We are here for a very short time, but you have the computer you are on, and the electricity it is running on, and that chair you are sitting on, because humanity before you made this world the way it is so that you could live in it. I can not for one second believe that you are suffering in your own mind every second of everyday. You surely are happy more often then you describe. Are you not happy when you eat a meal, or goto sleep? I can picture you now disagreeing. But here is my dispute. Try going a week without food and then tell me that you are not happy when you finally get a meal.. Try the same thing with sleep. You are not suffering all of the time. You are suffering because you make yourself suffer. I do not know what to say to you that you can do about it. I have a feeling if I did it would just make you hate something else only because I have said it.

My only advice is to keep this in mind. Nobody is perfect. Life is what you, yourself make of it. If you chose to make it hell. Then it will be hell, however if you learn to enjoy what you have, and the environment around you. Then I very much believe you could change your beliefs.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 12:34 AM
LOL, I love tekilla, but I think with the worm in is banned in Europe.
And for Mr. ComradeRobertRiley... Yes this is very analytical, and I&#39;m am predicting you will most likely respond with your woh-is-me response inflicting more pity upon yourself, but as you said you are constantly down, and there is no meaning in life.. You obviously had a smile when you wrote this..

LOL, I love tekilla, but I think with the worm in is banned in Europe.

Again, this is very analytical, but I can not fathom how people can say that they are constantly suffering for all of the day. When little things like this prove that you do have happiness in something.. Now I am not encouraging alcoholism. But you said it yourself, you love something. Isn&#39;t love happiness?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

You may be on to something there.

I love it because for a while i am able to forget about stuff.

I do laugh sometimes and smile too.

Im not no way suicidel&#33; LOL :D

[Wenty]

i&#39;ve found nietzsche but not isiah berlin so i can&#39;t comment on that.

In response to what alwaysquestion said, i don&#39;t think life is what you make of it at all. For sure your mind can alter the way things are to make it worse but sometimes they are worse. Life can&#39;t be reduced to each persons interpretation of it. In my opinion there are aspects which, to us, appear cruel and painful. Those emotions are something within me yes but they&#39;ve emerged nonetheless.

mmm, i don&#39;t think i&#39;ve put that very well, never mind.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 12 2004, 10:44 PM
i&#39;ve found nietzsche but not isiah berlin so i can&#39;t comment on that.

Always Question you make some excellent points by the way.




Do you mean you have found Nietzsche&#39;s idea of freedom?

Whats your interpetation, he is a difficult character to interpet so I always look out for new opinions.

[Individual]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 12 2004, 10:44 PM
i don&#39;t think life is what you make of it at all. For sure your mind can alter the way things are to make it worse but sometimes they are worse. Life can&#39;t be reduced to each persons interpretation of it. In my opinion there are aspects which, to us, appear cruel and painful. Those emotions are something within me yes but they&#39;ve emerged nonetheless.

mmm, i don&#39;t think i&#39;ve put that very well, never mind.
Oh but life very well can be reduced to your own interpretation of it... Over all, this may be hard to realize.. And this may just be my own interpretation of life.. But in my view everyone is different... The mind is a very powerful thing.. And this is a whole other eternity long discussion, but I believe that if your mind has the power to believe and or interpret something.. Then it is most definetely true.

For example... I have found no proof that any part of the bible is real. However, what is inside the bible has brought togethor millions of people because they believe.. I personally do not believe in God. However do I believe there can be a God. Yes. My reasoning is because I am a believer that if your mind can believe/interpret something, then it is true. Maybe not to somebody else. But it is true, why because you can believe.. This is a very hard topic to get into. This is just some explanation to your thought. Again nobody, including myself, can ever really know everything. In fact, here&#39;s the old quote, we know nothing. How is anything right or wrong? This is why it comes down to your own individual interpretation. You are right to yourself and maybe others who share the same beliefs. Now you could take this to the extreme and say that someone may believe it is right to slaughter millions. Obviously this is not a good thing, nor the right thing. But this is what would be right to that particular mind.

Now maybe I have interpreted what you had said completely in reverse. hehe. I hope I have it though.

Sorry one more thing.. Again one reason that I do believe that life is what you make of it is because I have been in situations where you wonder is anything worth it in life. I made a complete lifestyle change and you begin to realize that life is what you make of it. Yes this may only be myself. But I am proof of my theory. Things that are cruel and painful can be reversed as to life lessons, or learning experiences.. Now death of a loved one can be a very painful and cruel thing. But you know that everyone will eventually come to an end, and do you think that the loved one would want you to be in sorrow or misery? Do not ponder over your lifes end, only ponder over life itself

[Wenty]

i agree this is a hard topic to get into or to get anywhere for that matter. Its getting into the character of ethics and objective truths etc which i&#39;m not an expert on.

Thinking about it, it is hard to debate about. I still believe in my last post but i can, in some way, agree on what you&#39;re saying.

My knowledge of nietzsche is limited but i know &#39;Trissy&#39; is well versed in him. From my understanding he goes against conventional morality. Doesn&#39;t he think that through the expression of art there can be a freedom which is of value to human life.

There might be more to it than this i dunno but i can empathise with that at least. We should look to how humans act as &#39;free&#39; beings. Art can do this i think. Nevertheless i can empathise with sartre more. Sometimes the beauty of art only serves to make the absurd more unbearable, more hard to deal with a life so complicated and ultimately unknowable to us all.

(btw, are you a more of a Hegelian then? Thats what your name refers to in someway doesn&#39;t it? Geist that is)

[fallen camarade]

well captain anarchy, why don&#39;t you make like a tree and kill yourself.

Just kidding. Seriously, though, I&#39;d like to suggest an alternative to your nihilism, Captain, if you have not already thought this way. In here, a bunch of idiots say "Oh, the meaning of life is being an intellectual, or being really spiritual" or something like that. What people don&#39;t think about is A) humans are not the only living species on Earth B) What ever the "meaning of life" is, had to be true since the dawn of life on Earth, and C) The "meaning of life" might not actually have anything to do with a benefit for the life forms themselves. With this in mind, It has to be something more primitive, it has to apply to all life, and it has to be a part of a "bigger picture". With this in mind, I&#39;ve come up with a possible idea, which is a sort of mixture of The Gaea Theory, and Epircurus&#39; theories on atomic life.

We are "batteries". Each planet is a giant ecosystem that is balanced by many seperate elements. Each planet relies on different balances of these elements to "survive". Humans, and other life forms, are just an element. There is no meaning of life in the sense that we as human beings ultimately benefit, but the meaning of life, is to maintain Earth&#39;s life. We are made up of atoms or something of that sort of nature, and upon death, our corpses nurture the soil, and the other life forms that in order to maintain their species&#39; balance, they must feed on us. Perhaps the brain&#39;s energy or something plays into that, but I&#39;m not sure. There is no full way to justify this, but it seems to make sense. Use that sort of larger thought as a way to battle your nihilism, and see if you can come up with something else.

[hazard]

such an amount of sensless stupidity

fc, your joke is so fucking tacky, I mean, what page are you on? you&#39;re like the guy talking about season THREE sopranos when we&#39;re already on five

batteries? planets? egoism? nihilism? I think I&#39;d laugh at the way you&#39;d define any or all of these terms

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by fallen [email protected] 18 2004, 02:59 AM
We are "batteries". Each planet is a giant ecosystem that is balanced by many seperate elements. Each planet relies on different balances of these elements to "survive". Humans, and other life forms, are just an element. There is no meaning of life in the sense that we as human beings ultimately benefit, but the meaning of life, is to maintain Earth&#39;s life. We are made up of atoms or something of that sort of nature, and upon death, our corpses nurture the soil, and the other life forms that in order to maintain their species&#39; balance, they must feed on us. Perhaps the brain&#39;s energy or something plays into that, but I&#39;m not sure. There is no full way to justify this, but it seems to make sense. Use that sort of larger thought as a way to battle your nihilism, and see if you can come up with something else.

Is that not the theory from like the game Final Fantasy 7?

Seriously you are talking pants, your answer to nihilism is to make up random theories like your obscure and idiotic one and all will be fine. Captain Anarchy if I was you I&#39;d be insulted.

[fallen camarade]

Jesus Christ are you guys touchy in here....

First of all. Hazard, quit being a dick. Again, I was just trying to start something in captain anarchy&#39;s mind as an uncommon mode of thinking. I wasn&#39;t necessarily asking him to believe what I was saying, just to think differently, and see if he still felt the same way afterwards. At least I&#39;m trying to help.

Also, I&#39;ve never played Final Fantasy 7, and I don&#39;t give a rat&#39;s ass what the game says. You can go ahead and play your game, and I&#39;ll be thinking. Geist, for someone who makes a lot of posts, you are pretty open minded. obviously you like thinking within your secure little box, so maybe I could make a comparison to something other than my theory. You think that maybe all the first people to believe in now globally known religions were told the same thing you just told me at one point or another? That their theory was "obscure" , "idiotic", and "random"? Despite this, they kept on thinking, and their thoughts became heavily believed in. It&#39;s those people thought were told that their theories didn&#39;t make any sense that supplied people like you with all the comfort and security of not having to think for themselves because the mold had already been made for them. I&#39;m not saying my theory is right, but that doesn&#39;t make it wrong either.

Maybe if you read my entry a little closer you&#39;d reallize that I spent the entire thing justifying it. If it&#39;s such nonsense, than analyze my three points of what the meaning of life must be based on, say something intelligent instead of relating to a video game you like. Give me some logical, constructive criticism, and if you can intellectually disprove what I said, as I have stated in other forums, I will admit defeat. I will congratulate you, admit I was wrong, and ask you to bestow upon me the knowledge that you have, if you would be so kind. The same goes for you, Hazard. Stop calling me an idiot, and make a decent argument, and you will have my utmost respect.

Last time I checked, no one knew what the meaning of life is, so while everyone tries to further justify age old theories so they don&#39;t have to think for themselves, I think I&#39;ll continue trying to put something different together. At least I&#39;m thinking.

[fallen camarade]

And by the way, Hazard. I&#39;m not a multi-user, or whatever it was you accused me of being. I don&#39;t care about your personal life, and I don&#39;t wish to stoop down to your level by insulting peoples personalities just because they don&#39;t agree with me. I am fallen camarade, and that&#39;s it. I came here to learn something, not to insult people.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

A) humans are not the only living species on Earth B) What ever the "meaning of life" is, had to be true since the dawn of life on Earth

Ok here goes, point A is quite obvious. My answer just because animals exist it dosent follow that there is
a meaning to life, it just means they suffer the same nihilism we do if you take that approach. In fact theirs would be a horrifc nihilism but their ignorance protects them.
Point B sets your argument up as teleological, I will bear this in mind.


C) The "meaning of life" might not actually have anything to do with a benefit for the life forms themselves

But they are the life, it can have no meaning unless it is the meaning of life hence its name.


We are "batteries".

Explain this further, what do you mean? Are you talking about energy or say a will of some sort, spiritual or physical etc. If you are to debate philosophically you have to be clear.

Each planet is a giant ecosystem that is balanced by many seperate elements. Each planet relies on different balances of these elements to "survive".

This can occur even without the possiblity of any kind of meaning.

Humans, and other life forms, are just an element.

Prove it&#33; Just an element? What do you mean by just an element, Im confused by this and if I am to believe your theory I need a clearer, bigger picture.


Tere is no meaning of life in the sense that we as human beings ultimately benefit, but the meaning of life, is to maintain Earth&#39;s life

So the meaning of life pertains to the Earth&#39;s life and not ours, we cannot know the meaning of life hence a belief in nihilism is fully justified.

There is no full way to justify this, but it seems to make sense.

This is not good enough for me, I follow a Kantian line in relation to existence and some Marxist thought. My own theory would combine these two and be opposed to existensialism ( I do not take Nietzsche as an existensialist). What I am saying is philosophy requires you to justify your beliefs, if you want to belief in a system that is not justified join the Catholic Church or a cult.

Use that sort of larger thought as a way to battle your nihilism, and see if you can come up with something else

Bullshit, study and understand the concepts, read Descartes, rid your mind of all doubt and work back up to a system of belief, this is justifiable. Defeat nihilism and scepticism with their own tools.

Jesus Christ are you guys touchy in here....

I&#39;m not touchy I just like to make my points.

Also, I&#39;ve never played Final Fantasy 7, and I don&#39;t give a rat&#39;s ass what the game says. You can go ahead and play your game, and I&#39;ll be thinking

It was a joke, I dont play games and I think more in a half hour than you are likely over the next seven days.

Geist, for someone who makes a lot of posts, you are pretty open minded. obviously you like thinking within your secure little box, so maybe I could make a comparison to something other than my theory

I am secure in my foundations of knowledge if thats what you mean by your cliched box? I will expand my theory soon for you but it will take more than a half an hour. You can do some reading to prepare for it as it is based on Kant&#39;s idea&#39;s of space and time as well as his aesthetics along with some Nietzschen and Marxist thought incorporated into my own.

You think that maybe all the first people to believe in now globally known religions were told the same thing you just told me at one point or another?

Stop talking to us like idiots or children.

[/B]That their theory was "obscure" , "idiotic", and "random"? Despite this, they kept on thinking, and their thoughts became heavily believed in.

Once again Im not seven, go tell your mother she might be impressed by that.

[B]Maybe if you read my entry a little closer you&#39;d reallize that I spent the entire thing justifying it.

If that was justifying please don&#39;t represent me in court.

If it&#39;s such nonsense, than analyze my three points of what the meaning of life must be based on, say something intelligent instead of relating to a video game you like.

I just have, that game rocked in 1997 when I played it. Im over it now, you should be to and it was just a reference I made.

Give me some logical, constructive criticism, and if you can intellectually disprove what I said, as I have stated in other forums, I will admit defeat

Right oh your all set.

At least I&#39;m thinking

Well its the only thing we can be sure of ain&#39;t it.

:P

[iloveatomickitten]

Nietzsche view of freedom? I&#39;ve read a couple of his books now but I&#39;ve never picked up on any freedom just the ever present will to power. Any chance of an explanation of his view of freedom?

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

(btw, are you a more of a Hegelian then? Thats what your name refers to in someway doesn&#39;t it? Geist that is)

I am not a Hegelian despite the name but I do find the concept of Geist appealing, that is a quality that animates the mind.

Just in answer to fallen camarade and meaning in life I would just like to outline a thought of Camus alluded to here.

Camus in relation to the question of suicide says &#39;There is but one truly philosophical question and that is suicide. Judging whether life is worth living amounts to answering the fundanmental question of philosophy&#39; going on to quote Nietzsche

&#39;a philosopher, to deserve our respect, must preach by example&#39;

He knows the answer could be the last so he must like you are saying find a reason for living.

But he realises &#39;that a reason for living is also an excellent reason for dying&#39;. Both need a sacrifice and the question arises, must life have a meaning to be lived? He concludes in Camus&#39; style, no due to the absurd:

&#39;it will be lived all the better if it has no meaning&#39;

Just some food for thought.

On Nietzsche and freedom`:

Nietzsche talks of the free spirit rather than just out right freedom. It is only this free spirit or higher man, the overman that can totally embody the will to power. This true freedom has yet been seen though some like say Ceasar and Napolean have come close. This gives the opinion that Nietzsche see&#39;s freedom as fulfillment of the egotistical but Nietzsche diregards these objections. He asks, who else but ourselves should we serve?

His version of freedom is a direct challenge to Chrstian ethics.

[Wenty]

mmm i recgonise that from reading a chapter on him in bertrand russell but i&#39;m sure art has something to do with his idea on freedom.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Well sure, Nietzsche isnt set in stone he unlike most philosophers dosent really have a system.

If you are alluding to the Dionysian and Apollian concepts of art. I&#39;d explain it but I have an essay due tomorrow so I wont be on for long.

[Wenty]

i&#39;m reading birth of tragedy at the mo so its ok.

Where r u at uni to?

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Im at University College Dublin.

I am re-reading Birth of Tradegy for my Aesthetics course, its Aesthetics from Kant to Nietzsche and my essay in on Nietzschen Aesthetics which is pretty cool methinks.

[hazard]

fc:

I didn&#39;t read any of your crap. you are fuck and a liar and you should take me VERY seriously when I tell you to FUCK OFF.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 08:15 AM
fc:

I didn&#39;t read any of your crap. you are fuck and a liar and you should take me VERY seriously when I tell you to FUCK OFF.
Wow Hazard, that was a very intellectual, and mind opening post there. Instead of trashing on someones posts, why don&#39;t you comment on what your master, superior, and brilliant philosophy is. Well everything that you don&#39;t agree with is wrong, so lets here whats so great that is in that mind of yours. I am asking you to actually post something that contains intellect and explain your superior theory that you have. Im waiting.

[mia wallace]

Originally posted by captain [email protected] 5 2004, 12:59 AM
theres no point to life you are born and have very few moments of happiness the rest is suffering and hurt and misery then you die and have nothing to prove. theres no heaven no hell you just don&#39;t exist and are gone.

i guess i agree with you bout heaven and hell and life, but i somehow always imagened that after death you &#39;leave your body&#39; and become like some all-knowing force... i know it sounds stupid, but that&#39;s how i feel about that. i first got that idea cause i really love parapsihilogy and stuff like that and i read meny book bout that... anyway, we all gonna find out what happens after death one day... i hope it&#39;s not bad. :huh:

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Just a quick point, I feel mediating on the afterlife is a waste of time. As Marxists and generally materialists I suppose out aim is to improve things here while we can.

I don&#39;t think many of us can tackle metaphysics and prove it, if Kant could&#39;nt I doubt I can but I am open to the idea that somebody may accomplish it one day.

[fallen camarade]

Greetings. I would not like to make a long drawn out explanation as to why I have decided to come back, but I would like to say a few things. Firstly, I am embarrassed to come back after the rude "last post" I made in one of the discussions. It was wrong of me, and for anyone who read it, I apologize. It held a lot of fact, but it was still very out of line. Secondly, I&#39;d like to thank alwaysquestion for letting me know that I wasn&#39;t alone in the anger against those who bicker in here, but I have since learned that the evil of Hazard has pretty much come to be realized by most people in here. It has been a while since I have posted a message in here, and I have changed thoughts on a lot of things. I have been inspired by Nietzche to understand that it is not possible to gain respect from everyone, and that it is not right to try and force people to believe in something&#39; in this case, telling Hazard how to conduct himself on this site. I will welcome all fools who wish to act that way, as it will do me the favor of knowing not to talk to them. This is the basic idea of this. I have no need to converse with those who wish to battle the point of these forums; learning.


But anyway, the reason I am posting is to thank you, Geist, for also being a major eye-opener for me. I asked you to pick apart what I said earlier in this disscussion, and you did just that, in a pretty logical manner. A little harsh at points, but I was also, so it&#39;s understandable. Thank you very much for tearing what I said apart, fore it was a lesson learned, which is all I&#39;ve ever wanted from this site. Thank you very much.

If it&#39;s okay with the others who frequent this discussion, I&#39;d like to restart the discussion meant for here; the sort of meaning of life. What I&#39;d like to do this time though, is not start with making points, but with asking questions. I&#39;ve begun to read on Nietzche, and not only has it enlightened me in large amounts, but has made me realize that I really ought to read more. I was thinking that If I stayed away from philosophy based books, I would not be polluted by thoughts that have already been made, and I could think for myself, but all that has done has created theoretical thoughts that I have a hard time describing. They may be interesting to those not used to philosophy, but for the intellectuals, such as yourselves, who indulge in this quest for understanding, it is all utter nonsense. I wish to be in the same league in thinking terms as the rest of you; especially you, Geist. I want to be able to think in a more clear manner and be able to understand the theories being spoken of.

Because this is a long process, I was hoping for some suggestions of; books to read, theories to look into, etc. Geist, you were very helpful, so I would be most content to see you suggest something, or further explain the theories you spoke of when you were critisizing my battery theory. Also, you said you wanted me to explain further what I meant at many parts. I am to lazy to do it all now, so if you are still interested in me doing so, I would be more than happy to. I would like to see more theories in this discussion simply out of interest, if anyone is truly motivated to.

I feel as if I am admitting to vulnerable ignorance in this post, but I guess that is the first step to learning; admitting that you need to learn. I hope you all can appreciate that, because I am admitting ignorance to what seems to be highly educated scholars, which is pretty intimidating. However, I feel like it is the necessary step to knowledge right now, and hope to hear from many of you, whether by posting in here, or sending me a message, in the near future. I am eager to learn. Thank you all for your time.

[Individual]

*clapping*

This is a very good idea that you possessed. Self evaluation and realizing that you are your own person.

Despite the reasoning of Hazard&#39;s restriction (not for preferrable reasoning, however still is restricted), do not take to heart what he has to say. You should come to realize those on Che-Lives that have a mind of their own, and actually put thought process into things, are the one&#39;s that actually learn. I will not get into Hazard&#39;s actions, while he may deserve credit for operating his brain, he just really get&#39;s no credit for putting logic in this operation.

Do not become discouraged of using this site from other users. Hopefully you have learned in this &#39;experience&#39; of yours, that you are your own individual. Everyone has gone/will go through what you have many times throughout their lives, and what needs to be done is learn from it. I respect the fact that you have come back willing to open your mind, and let things flow in. Then being able to decide what is good in your own point of view, whilst keeping your mind open.

As for philosophy books. I am interested in this area myself, however do not always have the time to experiment with. Geist probably would have the whole lot for you. However I do reccomend books by Roger Scruton (http://www.rogerscruton.com). He has written books on Kant and Spinoza, as well as others. While also recording some of his own philosphies on everything from aesthetics, modern philosophy, sex, music, politics, etc.

His political views I feel may be conservative. However some of his philosophy on aesthetics is amazing. I strongly recommend his philosophy books, maybe not his political books.

Geist should have the rest of the lot for you though, this is just my immediate recommendation.

Keep it up.

[sanpal]

There is only an instant between the past and the future, it just refers to life :P

Life is movement of a matter.

I think, the alive structure is organized by two natural processes having an opposite orientation. These are entropia (the second law of thermodynamics) process and antientropia one.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I am not sure exactly what you wanted so when you reply tell me what I have left out, I feel I have ignored what you really wanted to know and just posted a load of books and areas of philosophy but oh well.


Well books first, modes of popular thought second:

Kant&#39;s Critique of Pure Reason - a tough book but I am believe everyone should read it, but you will not just be able to read it and suddenly understand, luckily good old Routledge has sorted us out.

Kant&#39;s Critique of Pure Reason by Sebastain Gardner will help in this process.

Ethics: Inventing Right and Wrong - J.L. Mackie
Virtues and Vices - Phillippa Foot

If you want to be a clear thinker try Beginning Logic by E.J. Lemmon.

For aesthetics my personal main interest, Nietzsche&#39;s Birth of Tragedy and Human, All to Human, Hegel&#39;s Introductory Lectures on Aesthetics and Kants Critique of the Power of Judgement.

Of course the Rationalists:

Spinoza&#39;s Ethics, Leibniz Discourse on Metaphysics and Descartes Mediatations should give a basis although I am not alltoo interested in rationalist thought myself.

Marxism:

J.F. Lyotard - Libidinal Economy
J. Derrida - Spectres of Marx

Religion: Hegels lectures and Voegelin&#39;s Reason: Classic Experience.

Contemporary Political Philosophy by Will Kymlika is a great introduction to modern political theory, liberalism, libertarianism etc.

Plato and Aristotle, read as much as you can.

Existensialist&#39;s, look into Sartre, Heidegger, Keikegaard and especially Camus.

Aspects of Philosophy that should be of interest:

God:

Design Argument, First Cause Argument, Ontological argument, problems of evil, free will.

Ethics:

Duty, christian and kantian ethics, utilitarianism, relativism.

Politics:

Negative freedom, Rawl&#39;s two concepts of liberty.

The external world:

Scepticism, idealism, the cogito, representative realism.

Mind:

Dualism, behavourism.

They are just some interesting aspects of philosophy that I think should be looked into, of course the rest should pick up on whats missing as well as go into better detail of what books they recommend.

[Wenty]

i would read all of or extracts from history of western philosophy by bertrand russell. I cannnot praise this book enough it seems.

[Trissy]

i would read all of or extracts from history of western philosophy by bertrand russell. I cannnot praise this book enough it seems.

As good as the book is in many areas, I find I cannot agree with Russell&#39;s evaluation of Nietzsche. It pains me to disagree with a philosopher who shares many of my views but I think Russell&#39;s account suffers because of the woeful translations of Nietzsche. I think if he&#39;d read more of his work and read any of the later more accurate translations by Kaufmann or Hollingdale then he&#39;d maybe come to a different view of him. I believe he mistakes the desire for a meritocratic for a desire for an aristocratic society.

[Wenty]

i found his final couple of pages on nietzche wonderful. The &#39;story&#39; of nietzsche and buddha talking with god was really helpful i thought.

[Winston Smith]

To phrases to sum up the theory: Life is a ***** then you die.

The only things cirtain in life are death and taxes.

[Comrade Yars]

Originally posted by captain [email protected] 5 2004, 12:59 AM
theres no point to life you are born and have very few moments of happiness the rest is suffering and hurt and misery then you die and have nothing to prove.
I agree in terms of theology being a safety blanket for those who lack the wonderous realization of simple common sense or logic.

But how is it you live very few moments of happiness and the duration of your life in hurt and misery until death? Don&#39;t you think that&#39;s a bit of a pesimistic view of things...? :unsure:

[Postteen]

Yeh,that&#39;s what I wanted to say...I&#39;m an atheist but because all those things are so pessimistic I try to be an agnostic&#33;I want to belive that maybe after death there is Something else,something to hope.I don&#39;t believe in spirits and etc but I want to be an optimist.There&#39;s no point in living if you&#39;re atheist,and that&#39;s why people created God and spirits.I really want to follow a religion which tells you not that/how you&#39;ll find happiness after death but how to live a happy life.(I don&#39;t really want to find any religion but I&#39;m keen on Indian religions&#33;it&#39;s sort of interesting isn&#39;t it? )

[sanpal]

There&#39;s no point in living if you&#39;re atheist,

The mother - nature does not ask us about any points in our living because it has only natural laws not more, but if you an atheist you have to tried to find out these laws.



I really want to follow a religion which tells you not that/how you&#39;ll find happiness after death but how to live a happy life.(I don&#39;t really want to find any religion but I&#39;m keen on Indian religions&#33;it&#39;s sort of interesting isn&#39;t it? )

Oh, now I understand why your avator is like John Lennon. He wished to find out the same question during his visiting India :P

[Lefty]

Captain Anarchy- Assuming that there is no judgement after death, why do you continue living? If you truly believe that life is such a chore, why haven&#39;t you already killed yourself? Is it because you are afraid of death? In that case, you probably believe in judgement, right? You&#39;re afraid of the possible consequences of suicide. The reason I haven&#39;t ended it all yet is because I enjoy some parts of life. In my opinion, life is worth living because the good outweighs the bad. That&#39;s a crazily oversimplified summary of that particular philosophy of mine, but that&#39;s the gist of it.

[Dsunsetlover]

its very sad to see so much depression on you guys ........
why cant you see the beauty of life ....yes i do agree life has terrible moments ....and you wish to be dead at moments but life is like a roller coaster it has its ups and downs....so just enjoy it and make the best of it after all " you have to put up with the rain in order to see the rainbow" :D

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Everyone gets depressed in their early-mid teens, once you hit 18 or so you begint o realise how good life is.

[Lefty]

I certainly hope so, Geist. Most of my peers are so fucking dreary all the time, attempting suicide and such. Why can&#39;t everyone just mellow out and cheer up? Heh.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Sometimes you have to feel really bad to realise whats good. Personally I havent felt sad or depressed in a long time.

:D

[Lefty]

I haven&#39;t been depressed since...uh...like 8th grade. And even then I was depressed for like a 3-day period because my grandma and my dog died on the same day. I haven&#39;t cried since then and I&#39;m in 10th grade. I like to think of myself as fairly mellow and laid-back.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I gained a lot from the writings of Nietzsche oddly enough, has made me more optimistic than I ever was before.

Kaufmann&#39;s Portabvle Nietzsche is my bible.

[Meursault]

The universe is absurd, so enjoy life while you can.

[BOZG]

Solipsism :rolleyes: