Is "American History X" a pro-Nazi film?

[Orange Juche]

(There's spoliers in here) I understand that supposedly the point behind this film, come the end, is that hate and racism and whatnot are "bad"... but for those of you who've seen the film, do you really buy that this is nothing more than a pro-far right film?

I mean, the racist rants seen in the movie ramble on quite a bit and on the occasions they are challenged, it is a very, very weak challenge. And then Derek turns into someone who finds Neo-Nazism as wrong because a black guy could make him laugh while folding laundry (essentially). Where there was potential for really exploring class and racism, there was none, and in the end the whole thing seems like pro-Nazi propaganda with an end that's forced because no one would get away releasing a mainstream film whose thesis was "racism and fascism are great!"

At least, that's what I've always gotten out of it. Anyone else see it as essentially a pro-racist/fascist film, or am I thinking too much?

[Sasha]

I really can't see that, if anything the anti-racist moral/message is way to obvious, I think a movie like romperstomper is far more umbegious

[Sasha]

I do know though that the director was really unhappy with a bunch of editing choices the studio pushed through and sued to get his name from the credits, so that might explain the "weak" impression you got.

[Nevsky]

I don't think so. The movie actually does a very good job at deconstructing neo-nazi ideology. The only likeable nazi in the movie is Ed Norton as we can understand his motives on a human level, the rest of them are either clearly portrayed as dumb (Ed Norton's girlfriend), degenerate (the fat guy) or opportunist manipulators (the boss).

Ultimately, the likeable nazi - as well as the audience which might have sympathized with his views - learns his lesson on several levels: 1. He sees how his supposed friends in prison are not that honorable after all, they sell drugs just like the supposed "inferior" races. Thus, Derek's ideals of "noble white man" dies (and to make the point even more obvious, they brutally rape him) 2. The emerging friendship with the black guy makes him realize that black people are just as affected by injustice as white people. That he has a much better time with a good black man than with a shit white man. 3. At the beginnig, when the audience can still sympathize with the likeable nazi's views, we are told that his father was killed by immigrants (if I remember correctly). At a later point, though, we learn that his father was a racist dirtbag who influenced Derek in his youth. The "heroic father who struggled against immigrant menace" - image dies as well.

As you can see, nazi-ideology (especially the american racist/anti-immigrant style) is absolutely trashed by the movie on several fronts.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think a movie like romperstomper is far more umbegiousThough seeing the thugs get their asses kicked at the begining after trying to intimidate immigrants was sort of fantastic. American History X was a strange little movie and I had a hard time enjoying it because it was a melodramatic movie about the same kind of racist gangs that were in my area as a kid. So I wasn't really surpized by the existance of neonazi gangs in the downwardly moble suburbs because I knew they were there already and I didn't particilaly desire to see a sort of sociological "inside look" at them. I don't think the movie glorifies them, it rebukes neonazis - but in a weak way: "hatred doen't solve anything".

[MP5]

I have to admit that the world of neo-nazi white supremacists is quite foreign to me. They have a very weak presence in Canada to begin with and in my province there is none except perhaps a few outcast unhappy suburbanites who read mein kampf and decided to blame all their troubles on the influx of immigrants into the province. In anycase i hated white supremacists with a passion from a very early age and so do most people i know. For some weird reason most people in my area root for anyone but Anglo-Saxons. Perhaps it has something to do with the days of the Irish being just as outcast as every other immigrant except the British in North America.

I didn't think the film was pro-nazi at all and it did a good job at showing how scummy and degenerate that whole culture is. I didn't get that from Romper Stomper either as none of the Nazis in that film where shown in a good light. They where shown to be nothing more then drunken hooligans who where cowards that got their asses handed to them when it was anything close to a fair go. I cheered when the immigrants kicked the fucking shit right out of the scum bags :grin:

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I don't think its a Nazi or racist film, quite the opposite. I would disagree with the main premise of the film-that racism is a "mental illness" that can be cured with education and understanding. Instead racism is a product of capitalism.

Its an interesting film though.

[Vanguard1917]

SPOILERS BELOW


I mean, the racist rants seen in the movie ramble on quite a bit and on the occasions they are challenged, it is a very, very weak challenge. And then Derek turns into someone who finds Neo-Nazism as wrong because a black guy could make him laugh while folding laundry (essentially). Where there was potential for really exploring class and racism, there was none, and in the end the whole thing seems like pro-Nazi propaganda with an end that's forced because no one would get away releasing a mainstream film whose thesis was "racism and fascism are great!"

I don't think it's intentionally 'pro-racist' but i see what you're saying about the mixed messages. Also remember that Derek originally breaks with his skinhead friends in prison because he sees them buying drugs from Mexicans and selling them to white inmates. He believes this isn't consistent with his white power views and so gets pissed off and leaves.

But his friendship with the black inmate is supposed to be important too: its hinted at the end that the black guy was the main reason why Derek didn't get his arse kicked by the other black prisoners after he split from the racists. And he's shown to be doing a bit of reading in prison, of books sent in by his black former school teacher.

So yeah, some conflicting messages. Not to mention the fact the ending is left wide open. Will Derek go back to his old ways after his brother/'best friend' is shot dead by a black schoolboy?

[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

The thing I find worrying about the film is there is only literally one black guy in it who is not a criminal. Go figure.

Plus there is an awesome alternative ending where, instead of finishing his brother's speech, he goes back to the mirror at home and starts shaving his head (come on, he just saw his brother murdered, by a black boy, it really should have just reenforced his hatred).

[Lord Hargreaves]

No I don't think its possible to see it as pro-Nazi. In all honesty, you seem to have wildly misread the movie in some rather eccentric ways.

I would also say that I'm opposed to the idea that this film (or any film) should be purely "pro" one thing or another, offering only one message or one interpretation. The film isn't a documentary on American Nazism, ultimately, its a narrative of the life of particular human beings who are themselves compromised and live real lives. Thus the political standards you are holding the movie up to are simply inappropriate within the genre.

[Philosophos]

I don't think it's nazi propaganda. The guy actually understands in the end that the whole concept is pure hatred for no reason. He tries to make his brother change his mind too (I don't think nazis would like that).

Also you say about the thing of changing his opinion because a black guy made him laugh. I suppose you think it's kind of ridiculous reason to change your political views (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think so. By this way you can see that everyone can be friends with everyone.

All in all no this film is not pro nazi. It gives you a small sample of what nazism is all about and it shows it the rough way. If it was about "we killed all the non-whites" and the crimes suddenly disappear well yeah that's nazi propaganda.

[ellipsis]

It helped turn me into a neo-nazis, back in high school.

[Tjis]

It helped turn me into a neo-nazis, back in high school.

how?

[bcbm]

the message of the movie isn't really pro-nazi, but the movie itself is certainly popular within that crowd

[Crux]

(There's spoliers in here) I understand that supposedly the point behind this film, come the end, is that hate and racism and whatnot are "bad"... but for those of you who've seen the film, do you really buy that this is nothing more than a pro-far right film?

I mean, the racist rants seen in the movie ramble on quite a bit and on the occasions they are challenged, it is a very, very weak challenge. And then Derek turns into someone who finds Neo-Nazism as wrong because a black guy could make him laugh while folding laundry (essentially). Where there was potential for really exploring class and racism, there was none, and in the end the whole thing seems like pro-Nazi propaganda with an end that's forced because no one would get away releasing a mainstream film whose thesis was "racism and fascism are great!"

At least, that's what I've always gotten out of it. Anyone else see it as essentially a pro-racist/fascist film, or am I thinking too much?
I didn't take it that way at all. Derek might be an idealist, but the way I see it the movie tears that down piece by piece.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

I don't think the message sympathizes with fascism, but I think the ending indicates a rather bleak and cynical view as to whether the human race can ever move past racism.

[Zealot]

I thought it was an anti-Nazi film :confused:

[Comrade Nasser]

I watched it (I hated it) it does have an anti-racist movie but I can't even stomach watching movies with "people" like that anymore. The curb-stomping scene was so barbaric and the rape in the shower was as well.

[DROSL]

No, it is not. Don't even bother to watch. I found it weird, I mean, not well made. I just can't understand national-socialists and why they would do such things. Is it really only led by hate or race?

[Os Cangaceiros]

And then Derek turns into someone who finds Neo-Nazism as wrong because a black guy could make him laugh while folding laundry (essentially).

It wasn't really that he could make him laugh, it was that he recognized that guy as a personable individual rather than a charicature, which is how he viewed black people before.

[L.A.P.]

the message of the movie isn't really pro-nazi, but the movie itself is certainly popular within that crowd

yeah, because the enlightened-liberal white kid gets shot by a black kid in the end. i don't think the film is as pro-fascist as much as it shows how weak a liberal multiculturalist critique of fascism is and how it buys into much of the logic of the Right.