Wacky anarcho-capitalists

[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

Hans Hoppe, Democracy: the God that failed,

"There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and expelled from society. Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They--the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centred lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism--will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order."

Sounds like something just ripped out of The Turner Diaries...

[ВАЛТЕР]

All I have to say to this is: "come at me bro".

Honestly, they wouldn't have to expel me from their utopia...I'd walk myself out.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

They are anti-homosexuality?
How dare they use the name "libertarian" and then say those thing!?

Anarchists are the only true libertarians, and we are leftists!

[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

Muh non agression principle uber alles... unless you're a commie or gay.

[Questionable]

It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error. - Ludwing Von Mises

[conmharáin]

Hans Hoppe, Democracy: the God that failed,

"There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and expelled from society. Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They--the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centred lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism--will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order."

Sounds like something just ripped out of The Turner Diaries...


Isn't the kernel of anti-communist thought that communism infringes upon rights along arbitrary lines formulated by powerful demagogues? That they dispose of you if you don't toe the line?

How do these people sit down, write these things, read them, and then say, "That's some logical consistency right there?"

[Kindness]

These people have no idea what "libertarian" means, do they? Imposing fascistic expulsions and draconian social conservatism on a supposedly "free" society is the very antithesis of libertarianism.

[Starship Stormtrooper]

That's not even the worst part, Hans-Hermann Hoppe advocates "anarcho"-monarchism in some of his works :laugh:. Can't post links but section F.1. of the @faq has some of his quotes supporting it.

[Kalinin's Facial Hair]

How beautiful is (their) freedom.

Pigs.

[Fourth Internationalist]

How beautiful is (their) freedom.

Pigs.

Was that an insult to the "libertarians" or to cute little piggies?

So adorable! http://www.teacup-pigs.com/mini_piglets.jpg

[Brutus]

Ha. Anarcho capitalism would be pure slavery. Stereotypical anarchy.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

hahaha... I must read this book.

[L.A.P.]

I've heard of this guy, his doctoral adviser was Jurgen Habermas (of the Frankfurt School) and taught economics at Las Vegas. Dude is a joke, he actually argues that monarchy - he deems "privately-owned government" - is preferable to democracy ("publicly-owned government").

[Taters]

hahaha... I must read this book.

You say that... but take it from me, reading far-right drivel like this can cause strokes and permanent brain injury. It ain't that funny when you realize someone actually took the time to write it down.

[No_Leaders]

"anarcho" capitalism is such a joke, not to mention an oxymoron. I remember being on some forum years and years ago and unfortunately there were quite a few. Yet they somehow had this twisted idea that other forms of anarchism would lead to tyranny of the majority or some such nonsense. Their "perfect" little world would be an authoritarian's dream. Hell all I have to do is hire private armies or private security firms to protect my interests right? Then we continue the cycle of coercion, dominance, using intimidation and fear like common thugs. Bet those fools won't be calling it freedom when you have goon squads going around harrassing the locals. Isn't an unregulated Free Market great!? Plus it has the word 'free' in it, so that must count for something ;)

[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

Yet they somehow had this twisted idea that other forms of anarchism would lead to tyranny of the majority or some such nonsense

Yet tyranny of the minority is perfecty okay for them, amirite?

The most absurd thing about ancaps, apart from the various starwmen that they construct for anarcho-communism (if you can keep a calm head watching this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMSMQHpIEQU), then you're a better man than I), is there rather surreal belief that utterly contradicts modern history, that capitalism can exist without a state.

[Fourth Internationalist]

Yet tyranny of the minority is perfecty okay for them, amirite?

The most absurd thing about ancaps, apart from the various starwmen that they construct for anarcho-communism (if you can keep a calm head watching this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMSMQHpIEQU), then you're a better man than I), is there rather surreal belief that utterly contradicts modern history, that capitalism can exist without a state.

Ugh! I was only able to watch two minutes of that!

"End hierarchy! (unless it's economic hierarchy, of course)" - 'Anarcho'-capitalism

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

http://i.imgur.com/DIgdQ.jpg

[Kindness]

The state, a violent force used to enforce contracts, land holdings, and protect the rule of the bourgeoisie, is an absolutely essential element of capitalism. Without a state to enforce bourgeois domination, capitalism would simply wither away.

[Sheepy]

"Ve shall maintain ze libertarian order die mein Kampf!"

[Starship Stormtrooper]

"Ve shall maintain ze libertarian order die mein Kampf!"

You may not be completely serious, but on Reddit the crossover between users of r/libertarian, r/anarcho_capitalism, r/mensrights, and r/whiterights is quite considerable to say the least.

[Kindness]

Here's something even more absurd: anarcho-monarchism (http://anarcho-monarchism.com)! Anarchy = the absence of a state, monarchy = a state ruled by one person. How is it possible to have a stated ruled (absolutely!) by one person if there is no state? It's literally a contradiction in terms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction)!

I honestly think some conservatives are sick of that stodgy label, so they slap "anarcho-" in front of their reactionary ideology of choice to seem "cool," "edgy" or "different." It's the political equivalent of skinny jeans, ironic t-shirts, tattoo mustaches, and huge, lensless glasses.

[Tenka]

Here's something even more absurd: anarcho-monarchism (http://anarcho-monarchism.com)! Anarchy = the absence of a state, monarchy = a state ruled by one person. How is it possible to have a stated ruled (absolutely!) by one person if there is no state? It's literally a contradiction in terms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction)!

I honestly think some conservatives are sick of that stodgy label, so they slap "anarcho-" in front of their reactionary ideology of choice to seem "cool," "edgy" or "different." It's the political equivalent of skinny jeans, ironic t-shirts, tattoo mustaches, and huge, lensless glasses.

I think people who call themselves "Anarcho-Monarchists" must have stumbled upon some royal taint in their family history. They're not being coerced if people are paying taxes to, renting land from, and being unworthy subjects under them! Either that, or they're stinking trolls.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

The state, a violent force used to enforce contracts, land holdings, and protect the rule of the bourgeoisie, is an absolutely essential element of capitalism. Without a state to enforce bourgeois domination, capitalism would simply wither away.

Wouldn't the oposite happen? The capitalists would begin to want to secure their system, and so they would create an institution that did the work of the state.
It would be the most authoritarian system ever to be put in practice on this Earth.

Funny how we anarchists are like, anarchy=freedom, unless it is combined with capitalism, in that case anarchy=chaos.

[Kindness]

Wouldn't the oposite happen? The capitalists would begin to want to secure their system, and so they would create an institution that did the work of the state.
It would be the most authoritarian system ever to be put in practice on this Earth.

Funny how we anarchists are like, anarchy=freedom, unless it is combined with capitalism, in that case anarchy=chaos.

That explanation is probably better than mine. Either way, anarcho-capitalism is not freedom.

[Orange Juche]

AnCaps don't really get to me too bad until they start trying to say "anarcho-communism is a contradiction" and start pissing all over the historical meaning in order to further their quaint privileged first-world "ideology".

[conmharáin]

I've heard of this guy, his doctoral adviser was Jurgen Habermas (of the Frankfurt School) and taught economics at Las Vegas. Dude is a joke, he actually argues for monarchy - he deems "privately-owned government" - is preferable to democracy ("publicly-owned government").

People have to do some weird mental gymnastics to defend capitalism, don't they?

[LOLseph Stalin]

My an-cap ex was racist, homophobic, and sexist. I think that says a lot about their mentality itself. They're so focused on "individualism" and "non-aggression" that they won't even stand up for the rights of oppressed groups. A business in an an-cap society would have a right to not serve homosexuals or African-Americans, after all. To say otherwise would be inciting force against them and their right to run their business in the way they please :rolleyes:.

[Chaos316]

Wouldn't the oposite happen? The capitalists would begin to want to secure their system, and so they would create an institution that did the work of the state.
It would be the most authoritarian system ever to be put in practice on this Earth.

Funny how we anarchists are like, anarchy=freedom, unless it is combined with capitalism, in that case anarchy=chaos.

Some of the more intellectually honest An-Caps would say that it would eventually give birth to a minarchist state.

[Mackenzie_Blanc]

Let's not even mention Walter Block's "wonderful" defense of harassment here:
http://library.mises.org/media/Our%20Enemy,%20Inflation/The%20Case%20for%20Discrimination%20Walter%20Block .pdf :lol:

Honestly, 'Anarcho"-capitalists have literally no support outside the internet. And on close examination, their "axioms" are nothing more than a charlatan's creation.

[Orange Juche]

Honestly, 'Anarcho"-capitalists have literally no support outside the internet. And on close examination, their "axioms" are nothing more than a charlatan's creation.

That's what seriously annoys me. They act like they deserve to be taken seriously, when they're a bunch of upper-middle class people with too much time on their hands. Like an annoying, bratty child screaming "look at me!"

[Starship Stormtrooper]

AnCaps don't really get to me too bad until they start trying to say "anarcho-communism is a contradiction" and start pissing all over the historical meaning in order to further their quaint privileged first-world "ideology".

I know what you mean, I normally think that they're harmless (and even hilarious) until I realize the extent that they've co-opted the very meaning of libertarianism and anarchism to something supportive of the worst elements of the present system. That, combined with their usual crapping on actual anarchist and worker's movements is usually a guaranteed recipe for rage on my part.

[Mackenzie_Blanc]

Let's also not forget that according to our good friend Hans Hoppe, that merely arguing with another person implies anarcho-capitalism and 100% private property.:cool:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_ethics#Non-aggression_principle

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Honestly, 'Anarcho"-capitalists have literally no support outside the internet. And on close examination, their "axioms" are nothing more than a charlatan's creation.

I once saw a video of an an-cap at a Tea Party protest, and it was like finding footage of Sasquatch. Even the Tea Partiers hated him.

[Kalinin's Facial Hair]

I know what you mean, I normally think that they're harmless (and even hilarious) until I realize the extent that they've co-opted the very meaning of libertarianism and anarchism to something supportive of the worst elements of the present system. That, combined with their usual crapping on actual anarchist and worker's movements is usually a guaranteed recipe for rage on my part.

I do know some anarchists who fell for their shit. A shame, really.

[kashkin]

I once saw a video of an an-cap at a Tea Party protest, and it was like finding footage of Sasquatch. Even the Tea Partiers hated him.

I met one at uni. It was amazing until he tried to convince me that humans are metaphysical beings.

[Starship Stormtrooper]

More evidence of how my high school's demographics are seriously skewed then, as I know at least 3-5 "libertarian" types, 1 "anarcho"-capitalist, and 1 "voluntarist" (as if capitalist property relations were voluntary :D). I feel pretty sure that it is one of the "libertarians" drawing the nazi propaganda in the bathroom stalls (some of the swastikas are even backwards, :laugh:).

[hatzel]

Here's something even more absurd: anarcho-monarchism (http://anarcho-monarchism.com)! Anarchy = the absence of a state, monarchy = a state ruled by one person. How is it possible to have a stated ruled (absolutely!) by one person if there is no state? It's literally a contradiction in terms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction)!

Ah, if you'd actually bothered to read your own link (http://anarcho-monarchism.com/2012/06/07/anarchomonarchism/):


Second, we are not monarchists. We are anarcho-capitalists. Free trade, free markets, liberty, and the non-existence of a centralized State are our goals. Our position towards monarchism is simply this: if given a choice between only democracy and monarchy, we tend to agree with classical liberals that monarchy was friendlier to liberty than democracy. Some have claimed that we would support a voluntary kingship in an anarcho-capitalist society – this is nonsensical. Beyond the virtual impossibility of such a thing occurring, we are not monarchists simply for the sake of being monarchists. We are Burkeans – we support a multiplicity of organic authorities in a diversity of regions. Thus, in America for example, if an anarcho-capitalist society cannot be attained, we would urge a return to true republican-Constitutional government (or even better, a return to the Articles of Confederation). We would not support a monarchy for America because it is completely outside the traditions of this country. Whereas in most of Europe, we would urge a restoration of the monarchical families. Anarcho-Monarchism is not an ideology in itself – again, we do not support a monarch within an anarcho-capitalist society (unless, of course, individuals within that region did indeed all decide to voluntarily have a king). Rather, our position is for anarchy OR for monarchy (given that monarchy fits into the organic historical traditions of that region).
Whilst it would be pretty easy to conclude that actually this just means this 'Jason' character is a raging imbecile (and that would be a fair assumption, actually), I think we should maybe realise that it's quite likely that the name itself is really intended as a Dalí-esque joke, but the whole point of the joke is to pretend to be all super-serious about it so he can't admit that it's a joke. I mean c'mon now, you look at a site with top hat-wearing, pipe-smoking, mustachioed anarchy-A's and you don't entertain the possibility that there might be a joke somewhere here?

[Doflamingo]

Yet tyranny of the minority is perfecty okay for them, amirite?

The most absurd thing about ancaps, apart from the various starwmen that they construct for anarcho-communism (if you can keep a calm head watching this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMSMQHpIEQU), then you're a better man than I), is there rather surreal belief that utterly contradicts modern history, that capitalism can exist without a state.

It's like I can really feel my IQ dropping. :(

[Starship Stormtrooper]

Why would you post that video ACSD, WHY?!?!?!? You may in fact be liable for any medical damages it should cause if I manage to ever finish it. I have to pause and calm down every couple of minutes (but this is par for the course for me with most right-wing propaganda). Thing is, once I start this sort of video, I can never stop it, the stupidity is much too compelling...

[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

I know the guy on facebook, he's a fucking idiot, and an arogant bastard, really trying his hardest to be the next Molyneaux. You can critique his work all you want, but then he just accuses you of being a statetheist and wanting to commit violence against peacful people and wanting to lock him in a cage et cetera, rather than defending his original position. I shan't link you to his facebook or any more youtube videos, as it may make me an accomplice to murder, due to your inevitable suicide if you read more than five posts, or watch more than three of his videos.

[Orange Juche]

I know the guy on facebook, he's a fucking idiot, and an arogant bastard, really trying his hardest to be the next Molyneaux. You can critique his work all you want, but then he just accuses you of being a statetheist and wanting to commit violence against peacful people and wanting to lock him in a cage et cetera, rather than defending his original position.

I've noticed that virtually every AnCap does this, which says a whole lot about the "ideology" in the first place. But that's the thing with "ideologies" that are clearly nuts and unworkable.

[MP5]

I have yet to talk to a Anarcho-Capitalist (it pains me to put those 2 words together) who could come up with any notion of how you could combine those 2 opposing ideologies. They are a fucking joke anyway. Really all they are are right wing Libertarians which is a really idiotic ideology to say the least. How the hell can anyone be free under Capitalism much less a complete Laissez faire economy. It would result in nothing less then Capital being monopolized even more then it is now as they would have absolutely no state to prop them up and to keep them from basically destroying each other. I imagine it would end up looking something like feudalism with some fascism thrown in for good measure.

What this idiot is advocating sounds more like Nazism then anything else and there is certainly nothing libertarian about it. It's pure fascism and that cannot work without a totalitarian state. I guess people like this just don't want to admit to themselves that they are really just fascists and bigots of the highest order. When i try and explain to Canadians or Americans who proclaim themselves as Libertarians that it is only in North America that Libertarianism is a right wing ideology they don't even want to hear about it. They all say something like "I don't care about any of that euro Commie crap" :rolleyes:

There is really no sense in arguing with this lot anyway. It is a total waste of time and they are a total joke in anycase.

[conmharáin]

I imagine it would end up looking something like feudalism with some fascism thrown in for good measure.

I now have an idea for a kickass socialist comic book. Thank you, comrade.

[MP5]

I now have an idea for a kickass socialist comic book. Thank you, comrade.

No problem i am always grateful to help out a fellow comrade. Seriously though if you make any cash off it ship me a a few kegs of stout or ale ;)1

[Forward Union]

Don't get wound up by this. Libertarianism isn't an ideological outlook at all. Not in the same way Marxism is.

You can't have a "Libertarian" analysis of the Vietnam war, or a "Libertarian" analysis of Tzarist imperialism (Or of the entire industrial development of society). It's just not possible. Equally you don't have people saying "I am a Capitalist, but I think that what has been done in its name is terrible". There is no ideology behind this tag - it's nothing more than a maximalist demand by the establishment to try to pressure lower corporate taxes and less state intervention.

[Crixus]

Hayek: "democracy needs ‘a good cleaning’ by strong governments.”


The Pinochet junta “enacted a new constitution in September 1980. . . . The constitution was not only named after Hayek’s book The Constitution of Liberty, but also incorporated significant elements of Hayek’s thinking.”

Hayek: "If Strauss had been “attacked for his support for Chile he deserves to be congratulated for his courage.”

Hayek: "There are many instances of authoritarian governments under which personal liberty was safer than under many democracies.”

Free market champion Hayek also said Pinochet's fascist regime was an example of what should happen around the globe in order to secure liberty.

[Crixus]

You can't have a "Libertarian" analysis of the Vietnam war, or a "Libertarian" analysis of Tzarist imperialism (Or of the entire industrial development of society). It's just not possible.
Yes they try. Everything is the states fault. That's their analysis. The state did it. The state and the Federal reserve are the cornerstone, the foundation and the framework of their analysis. As far as forign economy the "communist" World Bank/IMF and foreign states are the foundations of their "analysis".

For example, this absurd "analysis" of the Iraq war:

X78CYn_F6b8

[Forward Union]

Yes they try. Everything is the states fault. That's their analysis. The state did it. The state and the Federal reserve are the cornerstone, the foundation and the framework of their analysis. As far as forign economy the "communist" World Bank/IMF and foreign states are the foundations of their "analysis".

For example, this absurd "analysis" of the Iraq war:

X78CYn_F6b8

I rest my case

[Comrade_Ramirez]

I just want to say, that these anarcho-capitalists are so braindead it makes my heart throb.

[rylasasin]

Ah, so this must be what anarco fascism means. :laugh:

[Crixus]

On the Stephan Molyneux note, I guess he was just diagnosed with cancer this week

Iwmr1elnxjg

Of course he used this as an opportunity to attack Canada's 'socialized' medicine and hail the free market as a life saver. I guess the outspoken atheist found god after the diagnosis. I have nothing positive to say about him or his situation.

[liberlict]

Hans Hoppe, Democracy: the God that failed,

"There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and expelled from society. Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They--the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centred lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism--will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order."

Sounds like something just ripped out of The Turner Diaries...


Sounds frightening indeed, but also sounds like typical communist strategizing.

[Starship Stormtrooper]

Sounds frightening indeed, but also sounds like typical communist strategizing.

Care to back that up with any examples? I can personally think of no kinds of communism that could be construed to be anti-democratic (save ML variants or Bordigists) or that carried out similar actions.

[liberlict]

Care to back that up with any examples? I can personally think of no kinds of communism that could be construed to be anti-democratic (save ML variants or Bordigists) or that carried out similar actions.

You said it yourself---the "Ml variants". If you haven't noticed, they are quite numerous around here.

[Starship Stormtrooper]

That is unfortunately true, however you spoke of the typical communist (with a lowercase c) that usually includes all types of communists. This is of course a disparate group including everything from class-struggle insurrectionary anarchists to the aforementioned MLs. As such, it was rather surprising to see such a heterodox group not only generalized, but generalized as Stalinists and equivalent to an ideology that supports monarchism and slavery.

[liberlict]

That is unfortunately true, however you spoke of the typical communist (with a lowercase c) that usually includes all types of communists. This is of course a disparate group including everything from class-struggle insurrectionary anarchists to the aforementioned MLs. As such, it was rather surprising to see such a heterodox group not only generalized, but generalized as Stalinists and equivalent to an ideology that supports monarchism and slavery.

Your're right, sorry.

My only rejoinder to the above is I hope you will apply the same discernment you're asking for when thinking about Libertarianism. Some of the characterizations I've read in this thread are s vitriolic as they are irrelevant.

[Captain Ahab]

Care to back that up with any examples? I can personally think of no kinds of communism that could be construed to be anti-democratic (save ML variants or Bordigists) or that carried out similar actions.
Bordigists are not ant-democracy. They are just critical of bourgeois "democracy". MLs are also not against democracy either considering how much the term is used in their rhetoric.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Sounds frightening indeed, but also sounds like typical communist strategizing.

Communists (I assume you mean Marxist communists that recognise the necessity of the dictatorship of the proletariat, not anarchist communists) sometimes advocate the punishment of reactionaries. Even so, punishing reactionaries (including those that would expel homosexuals) is not even remotely the same as punishing homosexuals. Communists support the progressive aspirations of all oppressed groups; right-wing "libertarians", due to the petite-bourgeois origins of the ideology, tends to be reactionary and bigoted. Nor do communists put on airs about absolute freedom existing in the era of the dictatorship of the proletariat. That would be rank nonsense.


I can personally think of no kinds of communism that could be construed to be anti-democratic (save ML variants or Bordigists) or that carried out similar actions.

Neither Marxists-Leninists nor Bordigists are against democracy; they are against democracy in the bourgeois sense, as is every communist. Marxist-Leninist theory does tend to lead to states that are not democratic in the full proletarian sense, but this is not something MLs advocate.

[Comrade Anarchist]

Honestly, they wouldn't have to expel me from their utopia...I'd walk myself out.

A utopia can only be a utopia if one wants to be there. So yes you could easily walk out and go exist as you see fit. Of course if one tries to do this under a socialist utopia they will probably meet the fate of the anarchists after the Bolsheviks finally gained power, a bullet to the head. Or you could look at the millions of others who didn't want to live in a socialist utopia and weren't allowed to walk out, because they were too hungry to walk. And a pure communist utopia is about as possible as santa and the easter bunny have kids after a night hot gay sex.

But no really too many anarcho capitalists get bogged down in morality. There are no morals but the ones we create for ourselves, thats true individualism, Hoppe is just echoing one branch that is heavily based off of early christian thinking, aka horse shit.