WW2 Questions

[Comrade Nasser]

Basic questions from WW2 but I want to hear them from leftist perspectives

-Why did Hitler and Stalin sign the Nazi-Soviet non-agresion pact?

-Did Hitler REALLY target Communists inside of his inner circle before going on to try and exterminate European Jewry?

-Did Mussolini really believe in the whole Aryan master race idea or was this purely unique to Hitler? (I know he was a fascist of course)

-Why did Hitler really back-stab Stalin and launch operation Barbarossa?

-Do you believe that Hitler had Jewish ancestry

-Do you think that if Hitler had somehow overcome the red army and the harsh Russian winter at the battle of Stalingrad do you believe the outcome of the war may have changed?

-Is it true that during WW2 Hitler had many supporters in the U.S.? If so, why?

-Is it true that American and Soviet soldiers clasped hands amidst cries of "Amerikanskie tovarishci" (American comrades)? I find this hard to believe :confused:

-And Finally who had the more epic stashe, Hitler or Stalin?

Pics related, a bunch of soviet WW2 stuff. The hot blonde lady is a role-player or something but shes still hot

[#FF0000]

-Why did Hitler and Stalin sign the Nazi-Soviet non-agresion pact?

Hitler didn't want to fight a two-front war (For good reason)

Stalin didn't want to fight Germany because he didn't think Russia could win (he was probably right)


Did Hitler REALLY target Communists inside of his inner circle before going on to try and exterminate European Jewry? Er, there were no Communists in his "inner circle". He did go after communists, unionists, and other "undesirables" in Germany before going after the Jews. And he did go after the more economically "left" in the Nazi Party.


-Did Mussolini really believe in the whole Aryan master race idea or was this purely unique to Hitler? (I know he was a fascist of course)
Yeah, his thing was more Cultural than Racial. "Foreigners" could be "culturally" Italian and thus welcome.


Do you believe that Hitler had Jewish ancestry
Probs not.


Do you think that if Hitler had somehow overcome the red army and the harsh Russian winter at the battle of Stalingrad do you believe the outcome of the war may have changed?I think these sorta "what-if" questions are hard to answer. Certainly the war may have changed if Hitler wasn't dumb as heck and decided to drive towards the caucasus mountains to cut off Russia's oil supply instead of splitting his forces so he could claim some dumb propaganda victory (and only sending infantry to Stalingrad, with no armor support, dooming them to engage in the savage house-to-house fighting we saw therein).



Is it true that during WW2 Hitler had many supporters in the U.S.? If so, why? There were some, yeah. Some very prominent ones, even. I don't know about "many", though.



-Is it true that American and Soviet soldiers clasped hands amidst cries of "Amerikanskie tovarishci" (American comrades)? I find this hard to believe Yup, that happened.

[Captain Ahab]

I can say that Hitler never purged any communists in his inner circle. Those that were purge in the Night of the Long Knives were Strasserists. Strasserists may have been to the left of sHitler but they're still thoroughly right wing.
The evidence that Hitler had Jewish ancestry never seemed particularly strong to me.
That's all I can answer right at this moment.
EDIT:

-Why did Hitler really back-stab Stalin and launch operation Barbarossa?
I thought that like Napoleon before him, Hitler's armies had nowhere else to go but Russia. Spain was neutral, Africa stretched logistics, and sealion was impossible.

[Rafiko Bingo]

-Why did Hitler and Stalin sign the Nazi-Soviet non-agresion pact?

You've to know that French kinda had an alliance in-case of a fascist world expansion (The enemy of my enemy is my ally). However, in 1938, France,UK and Germany meet at Munich (it will end up with the Munich Pact where Hitler is allowed to annex the ''Sudetenland'') to discuss about Germany expansion BUT Stalin isnt invited by his allies so ... he felt betrayed and decided to get good relations with Hitler.

Thats the most plausible hypothesis about Hitler-Stalin friendship (if we can call it like that) before Hitler launchs Barbarossa's operation.[/QUOTE]


-Did Mussolini really believe in the whole Aryan master race idea or was this purely unique to Hitler? (I know he was a fascist of course)

I don't think so. There has always been an impressive duality between Hitler and Mussolini. Mussolini thought that the 'superior race' was the Italian, the perfect man along with the perfect culture (after all ... they are the successor of the most noble empire, the Roman Empire *sarcasm*). Jews were given to the gestapo, everything that is not *italian* was simply banned, etc.


-Why did Hitler really back-stab Stalin and launch operation Barbarossa?

Ressources ? Ideology ? It was a matter of time before the US get into their imperialistic mode and fight fascism. Hitler knew it and simply wanted Caucasus, Kiev's grain, Russia lumber and iron to be ready. But don't forget that a fascist gouvernment aim to destroy anything around them. They want to *liberate* the inpure soil of inferior races and make sure they serve the Aryans, the true lord of Earth... In other terms, they're crazy so just shoot them before they shoot you.


-Do you believe that Hitler had Jewish ancestry

Well, that's not proved, but he would not be able to prove that he isn't, so that's the whole point. He doesnt know the identity of one of his grandfather and her grandmother had male slavey working in her house. But for sure, if he had to pass the Gestapo test to prove that he isn't jew, he would miserably fail.


-Do you think that if Hitler had somehow overcome the red army and the harsh Russian winter at the battle of Stalingrad do you believe the outcome of the war may have changed?

Well, if Stalingrad was lost Caucasus would be under German hands for sure. The whole counter-attack of the Russian came from Stalingrad victory. But at the same time, an army was marching to Moscow and one was besieging Leningrad. Maybe the Caucasus troops would have joined Moscow assault and completly change the faith of Russia, we don't know. But why speculate about a NAZI's victory, if it happened, the whole world would be a terrible disaster.



-Is it true that American and Soviet soldiers clasped hands amidst cries of "Amerikanskie tovarishci" (American comrades)? I find this hard to believe :confused:

U.S army delivered a shitton of war material to the Red Army during the war. Also, I've read that Stalin respected Roosevelt, however, when Truman came, USSR and USA came back to the good ol' hate. But I don't know pretty much the view of soviet comrades with US citizens, if anyone got an answer, It would be a pleasure to learn more about it, it could be interresting.


-And Finally who had the more epic stashe, Hitler or Stalin?

Clearly Stalin. I've never been a fan of Hitler's mat mustach. Stalin's one had, by far, more style. The man of steel with the mustache flying in the wind.

Anyway, I hope I helped you a little bit more, comrade.

[Comrade Nasser]

I can say that Hitler never purged any communists in his inner circle. Those that were purge in the Night of the Long Knives were Strasserists. Strasserists may have been to the left of sHitler but they're still thoroughly right wing.
The evidence that Hitler had Jewish ancestry never seemed particularly strong to me.
That's all I can answer right at this moment.
EDIT:

I thought that like Napoleon before him, Hitler's armies had nowhere else to go but Russia. Spain was neutral, Africa stretched logistics, and sealion was impossible.

If you could answer the rest of the questions at a later time that would be greatly appreciated :)

[Comrade Nasser]

[/QUOTE] Anyway, I hope I helped you a little bit more, comrade.[/QUOTE]

You helped me very much. Thank you! I'm a WW2 nut and I love discussing it. (I know I'm weird lol)

[LOLseph Stalin]

Basic questions from WW2 but I want to hear them from leftist perspectives
-Why did Hitler and Stalin sign the Nazi-Soviet non-agresion pact?As far as I know it was to buy time to prepare for war. That's the simplified version of course.


-Did Hitler REALLY target Communists inside of his inner circle before going on to try and exterminate European Jewry?Yes, Hitler targeted communists. There were also detained in concentration camps too as political prisoners.


-Did Mussolini really believe in the whole Aryan master race idea or was this purely unique to Hitler? (I know he was a fascist of course)No. This was more so exclusive to Hitler's brand of fascism. Fascism by default believes in extreme nationalism so certainly Italians were favoured, but Mussolini's politics were never entirely racial based as Hitler's were.


-Why did Hitler really back-stab Stalin and launch operation Barbarossa?I actually don't know this one.


-Do you believe that Hitler had Jewish ancestryI've seen disputed sources on this. Some say he did while others say he didn't. I personally lean towards him not having Jewish ancestry, however.


-Do you think that if Hitler had somehow overcome the red army and the harsh Russian winter at the battle of Stalingrad do you believe the outcome of the war may have changed?Doubtful. I think Stalin would have kept pushing until the Germans were gone. The battle at Stalingrad actually potentially saved a lot of lives.


-Is it true that during WW2 Hitler had many supporters in the U.S.? If so, why? Yes. I think they saw him as an alternative to communism and of course the capitalists wouldn't want communists gaining power. I know Henry Ford was a Nazi supporter at one point.


-Is it true that American and Soviet soldiers clasped hands amidst cries of "Amerikanskie tovarishci" (American comrades)? I find this hard to believe :confused:I haven't heard of this myself but it would be cool it if happened.


-And Finally who had the more epic stashe, Hitler or Stalin?


Stalin, obviously.

Yea, I was bored so I answered even if others did before me...

[Comrade Nasser]

The more responses/opinions the better. Lol keep em coming.

[RebelDog]

-Do you think that if Hitler had somehow overcome the red army and the harsh Russian winter at the battle of Stalingrad do you believe the outcome of the war may have changed?

I think the material superiority of the USSR was far too much for Germany to ever overcome. Even if the Germans had held Stalingrad another massive counter-attack would have come somewhere in the line. The soviets really destroyed the German forces. For every axis soldier the allies killed, the soviets killed 10. I know its in retrospect, but if you look at the figures for soldiers, tanks, aircraft etc, the disparity is huge, even before one includes the allies, and it gives the clear impression the germans were fighting a war they could never hope to win.

[Invader Zim]

Why did Hitler and Stalin sign the Nazi-Soviet non-agresion pact?

Hitler, because he wanted to annex large parts of Eastern Europe. But also because the Western Powers primary strategy for defeating Nazi Germany revolved around blockades because of Germany's relative lack of economic power and resources - as occurred in WW1. The Nazi-Soviet Pact allowed the Nazis to circumvent this logistically minded strategy by importing vital supplies from the Soviet Union.

Stalin, on the other hand, having made overtures to the west from 1937 to form an Alliance all of which were rejected, in part because of western Anti-Soviet policy but also because they did not feel ready to begin a war based on reliance on Soviet power in the east. It was widely assumed, and not without justification, that following the purge of the Red Army, Soviet military strength, while considerable on paper, would immediately collapse when faced with a professional, mechanized, well equipped and well trained military power. Therefore, Stalin sought to preserve the western border of the Soviet Union by forming a non-aggression pact with Germany and by annexing sizable portions of the countries who shared that border with the Soviet union. Thus creating a buffer-zone between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.


Did Hitler REALLY target Communists inside of his inner circle before going on to try and exterminate European Jewry?The Nazi party certainly targeted leftists before they moved on to other "undesirables". These groups were seen as the Nazis primary political enemies, the people who would fight Nazi SA thugs in the streets and target Nazi rallies. Political prisoners began to be sent to concentration camps almost as soon as the Nazis achieved power in 1933, the first camp being opened at Dachau to intern political enemies of the regime.

http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/timeline/camps.htm



-Did Mussolini really believe in the whole Aryan master race idea or was this purely unique to Hitler? (I know he was a fascist of course)Beyond political expediency, Mussolini's and the Italian fascists did not buy into Nazi antisemitism. A colleague of mine, who works professionally studying Nazi repression, once told me a story indicative of the Italian fascist take on antisemitism:

During the war, the Vichy French, who most certainly did buy into antisemitism, employed squads of Jew hunters. One of these groups was pursuing some Jews fleeing the persecution rampant in France following its occupation and they fled towards the Italian border. Once across, the Vichy goons asked the Italians if they could cross the border to continue the chase. The Italian's responded that no they could not, because Italy was a country of civilized people.

Furthermore, Mussolini did not buy into it personally, and had Jewish lieutenants in his personal entourage and even had a Jewish mistress. The Nazis also repeatedly complained about the Italian refusal to take 'the Jewish question' seriously. Goebbels wrote the following passage in his diary:

"The Italians are extremely lax in the treatment of Jews. They protect the Italian Jews both in Tunis and in occupied France and won't permit their being drafted for work or compelled to wear the Star of David. This shows once again that Fascism does not really dare to get down to fundamentals, but is very superficial regarding most important problems. The Jewish question is causing us a lot of trouble. Everywhere, even among our allies, the Jews have friends to help them, which is a proof that they are still playing an important role even in the Axis camp. All the more are they shorn of power within Germany itself."

Dec. 13, 1942.

However, that is not to say that the Italian fascists were not racist - an examination of Italian fascist attitudes and treatment of the people in the African countries they invaded was horrific.



-Why did Hitler really back-stab Stalin and launch operation Barbarossa?Well, they had signed a Non-Aggression Pact, which the Nazis broke. So, yes. However, it would be naive to suppose that sooner or later the Soviet Union would not have broken it themselves, and certainly the Soviet Union knew full well that the Nazis were not to be trusted, and placed a considerable array of arms and forces on the border. That said, Operation Barbarossa apparently took Stalin and his inner-circle completely by surprise. This was in spite of Soviet Intelligence sources informing the centre what was about to occur, as well as the British informing them from their sources. Stalin, instead, chose to accept his fantasies over his own intelligence services and the British. It cost many hundreds of thousands of Soviet soldiers and civilians their lives.

David Low, the British satirical cartoonist had it right at the time:

http://www.moir.com.au/images/Hitler%20&%20Stalin.jpg



-Do you believe that Hitler had Jewish ancestryI don't know, I don't think it is actually very important. However, I did find this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html


-Do you think that if Hitler had somehow overcome the red army and the harsh Russian winter at the battle of Stalingrad do you believe the outcome of the war may have changed?No. The Nazis' made many mistakes before they lost at Stalingrad which arguably cost them the war, one of the most important and closely related to Stalingrad was the decision to strike towards the Don and the Volga, and simultaneously invade the Caucasus, with the intention of capturing the oilfields of modern day Azerbaijan. They should not have split their forces, and indeed, what they should have done, and what the Wehrmacht wanted to do but were overruled by Hitler, was attack Moscow again. The whole enterprise was mindbogglingly wrongheaded.

Of course, we can argue that the entire invasion of the Soviet Union was doomed to failure. The German Blitzkrieg strategy was very lucky to break, and sucessfuly exploit, the line at the Ardennes in 1940. Really, the Allies should have won the Battle of France, but due to miscommunication and stupidity at the highest levels this failed to occur. Blitzkrieg relies heavily on mobile Armour, which required massive logistical support. The problem the Germans repeatedly had was that they would overstep their ability to keep their Panzer Divisions supplied. This was true of both the Soviet Union and North Africa. It is an inherent problem with the strategy, you can break through an army, capture its reserves and push forward hundreds of miles. But eventually, if you move too quickly, you run out of fuel, ammunition and other essential supplies. And all the time, your troops are being killed by the Red Army, partisans, disease and exposure. Your tanks are being damaged and destroyed in this campaign as well, and the weather and terrain only add to the regular mechanical failures of those tanks, but equally importantly, your supply vehicles.

Incidentally, the Wehrmacht, in many ways, was not actually the vastly mobile force we envision, as we see archival footage of Panzer IVs rolling across the countryside at a stupendous rate. The reality was that the Wehrmacht invaded the Soviet Union with as many as 600,000-750,000 horses. In many respects the mechanized German war machine was actually horse powered. And they wanted to invade a country the size of the Soviet Union with that strategy and that supply chain? Yeah, the whole idea was one with a very high probability of failure. It is amazing that it worked in France, let alone the Soviet Union. And that is before we consider the issues I mentioned earlier, that Hitler overruled his generals and made them do incredibly stupid things. That is before we consider the million or so men, and all the resources they consumed, in North Africa and occupied Europe, where as they would have been far better employed on the Eastern Front. And also we have to consider that one of the Nazis, during a time of blockade, had just invaded their key trading partner.

The whole invasion of the Soviet Union was built on ideology - which tends to be impervious to reason, and in this instance it certainly was.


-Is it true that during WW2 Hitler had many supporters in the U.S.? If so, why?Yes and no. There were obviously some groups who supported Hitler, the same was the case everywhere, including other Allied nations such as Britain and its own fascists, the British Union of Fascists. However, I have seen little evidence that the US was overly pro-Nazi. There were some high profile individuals, like Henry Ford, who were pro-Nazi antisemites, but it would be wrong to generalize based on them. The bigger problem, particularly for the British who desperately wanted to bring the US into the war for obvious reasons, was the far more powerful non-intervention isolationist lobby in the USA. There is an interesting book about the British Secret Intelligence Service's (SIS, or as it is better known MI6) activities in the USA to try to influence US policy makers, silence opponents and suppress Abwehr agents.

Jennet Conant, The Irregulars: Roald Dahl and the British Spy Ring in Wartime Washington (2009).


-Is it true that American and Soviet soldiers clasped hands amidst cries of "Amerikanskie tovarishci" (American comrades)? I find this hard to believeNo idea.

[Blake's Baby]

...
-Why did Hitler really back-stab Stalin and launch operation Barbarossa?
...

The intention was always to take on Russia. But, because both Russia and France fear Germany, they tend to be allies. If Germany embarks on an attack on Russia (1600km from Berlin to Moscow) it needs to be damned sure it isn't going to be attacked by France (875km Paris to Berlin).

So in both WWI and WWII the plan was a quick strike against France (Paris being closer than Moscow and France smaller than Russia) in preperation for a long gruelling trek accross the North European Plain pointing towards Moscow. The Franco-Prussian War had convinced Germany that Paris was easily accessable and a sufficiently rapid and brutal strike could take it (worked in 1870, failed in 1914, worked again in 1940 - the Germans invaded the Low Countries on May 10th, by June 17th France had surrendured).

With France defeated (Hitler already at this point has been more successful than the Germans in WWI) preparations can begin for the 'real' target, the Soviet Union.

[Durruti's friend]

-Is it true that American and Soviet soldiers clasped hands amidst cries of "Amerikanskie tovarishci" (American comrades)? I find this hard to believe
I will just answer on this. It happened on 25 April 1945 near the city of Torgau and it's called Elbe Day - the first linkage of the Eastern and Western fronts. There are some interesting photos and videos of the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R05dCRkLA94
http://en.rian.ru/video/20100505/158816682.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbe_Day

Everything else has been answered already and I don't have anything to add.

[Rafiko Bingo]

Anyway, I hope I helped you a little bit more, comrade.[/QUOTE]

You helped me very much. Thank you! I'm a WW2 nut and I love discussing it. (I know I'm weird lol)[/QUOTE]

Don't worry, you are not the only one :P If you got any question, It would be a pleasure to answer you.

[Comrade Nasser]

I will just answer on this. It happened on 25 April 1945 near the city of Torgau and it's called Elbe Day - the first linkage of the Eastern and Western fronts. There are some interesting photos and videos of the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R05dCRkLA94
http://en.rian.ru/video/20100505/158816682.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbe_Day

Everything else has been answered already and I don't have anything to add.

Wow, thank you! Very interesting videos :D

[soso17]

Mosfilm made a movie called "The Meeting on the Elbe" that, although not really true to life, is a pretty good piece of Soviet cinema. Mosfilm has a YouTube channel, so you can watch it for free (be sure to get the one with subtitles if your isn't up to snuff).

[RedHal]

I've watched the 1973 BBC WWII series "The World at War" and in one episodes there is footage of American and Soviet soldiers shaking hands and chatting through translators.

[Riveraxis]

The Americans and Soviets were not at each other's throats before world war 2. Not so much at least.

Roosevelt and his vice. Wallace were big liberal "progressives" and noted multiple times that they supported the USSR. Wallace once said, even after the ball had already dropped and the USSR was our enemy once more, that he thought Stalin was "Mostly a good guy who wanted to do the right thing." Churchill, as well, was pretty friendly with the USSR until the war was over and his "iron curtain" speech came up. Before that, him and Stalin were dividing up the spoils of Europe amongst themselves, in a sort of "under the table" kind of deal.

Also, Europe can pretty much thank the USSR for not losing to the fascists. America and Brittan- as far as I know- were worrying about the pacific and north African territories they were losing/missing out on. Brittan could not have taken the Nazis on their own and of course France was out of the fight. America gets most of the credit for WW2 but it was largely the Soviet effort that brought the fascists down.
I'm sure most people around here know that, but it doesn't suprise me that the two nation's troops shook hands and respected each other at least for a period of time.


-Why did Hitler really back-stab Stalin and launch operation Barbarossa?Hitler did not like the USSR. He (rightfully) considered them a main threat in his European conquest. He didn't want the USSR to launch an attack again Germany while his armies were dealing with Paris and such. The pact was signed for the same reason on both ends: to buy time. I don't think either side really expected it to hold up. But Hitler certainly never did.
Fascists are vigilant anti-communists and vice versa. Stalin was somewhat of the figurehead for communism at the time regardless of how anyone sees him now. The USSR couldn't be allowed to exist alongside a Nazi Europe. Clashing tensions and all. It wouldn't have worked even if Hitler and Stalin were buddies.
Luckily the USSR won that war and stopped the Nazi onslaught. This, I think, had more to do with Hitler's recklessness and shortsighted military tactics because the nazis over exerted themselves. By the time winter came around, those that were still in USSR territory were sitting ducks. I don't know how exactly it happened but it was Zhukov who finally made the case to attack the Nazis head on- after they had stopped the siege on Leningrad, I think.

[Riveraxis]

-Did Mussolini really believe in the whole Aryan master race idea or was this purely unique to Hitler? (I know he was a fascist of course)


He was a fascist but was not an Aryan. So no, he didn't believe in the master Aryan race. His fascism- as someone else said- was more cultural.
A good example...
Under his rule, all males had the right to vote. I don't think females did. Any race could vote but their participation was restricted to their districts. He was one of those fascists who just believed in national sovereignty. He was not a mass murdering megalomaniac like Hitler.

However. Don't let me confuse you-a fascist is a fascist no matter how fancy their suit is. He may not have been a belligerent psychopath like Hitler, but he was a totalitarian douche-bag. He released his own "ten commandments". The last one- legitimately- was that "The ruler is always right".
Yeah, that's a direct quote.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/25467255

Other than that, Mussolini prided his regime on his huge propaganda industry. The propaganda industry was a huge driving factor behind his regime.

The reason fascism worked out so well in Italy was because it was a relatively new, small, European empire without much colonial territory. They, like Germany, had gotten the short end of the stick in the WW1 negotiations which led him to side with Hitler. The economy of Italy was suffering enough for his band of fascists to ingrain their bullshit in the citizens. But the uprising was absolutely violent at first.

[Luís Henrique]

-Why did Hitler and Stalin sign the Nazi-Soviet non-agresion pact?

Hitler wanted his hands free to deal with France and the UK; Stalin felt betrayed in his efforts to make a common front against Germany.


-Did Hitler REALLY target Communists inside of his inner circle before going on to try and exterminate European Jewry?

What do you call "inner circle"? He did target Communists in Germany, both after and before the Machtgreif. There were no Communists, or socialists, or social democrats, or anything left of centre within the NSDAP.


-Did Mussolini really believe in the whole Aryan master race idea or was this purely unique to Hitler? (I know he was a fascist of course)

Not really, though in the end he did enforce anti-semitic legislation, most probably by German pressure.


-Why did Hitler really back-stab Stalin and launch operation Barbarossa?

It seems that the conquest of the "East" (Lebensraum) has always been his strategical objective. He simply went back to his main objective after subduing France, and giving up the UK.


-Do you believe that Hitler had Jewish ancestry

It is said that his father's mother, Maria Schiklgruber, who was a house maid for a Jewish family, became pregnant of the young man there. If so, which I don't actually know, he was of close Jewish descent.

But probably most people in the region had some kind of distant Jewish ancestry.


-Do you think that if Hitler had somehow overcome the red army and the harsh Russian winter at the battle of Stalingrad do you believe the outcome of the war may have changed?

I don't think it was possible to overcome the Red Army at Stalingrad. They lost the war in front of Moskow in December 1941 - if not earlier, when they decided to attack the Soviet Union.


-Is it true that during WW2 Hitler had many supporters in the U.S.? If so, why?

Depends on what you mean by many, and what you mean by "support". There were many people who admired Germany coming back from its downtrodden position after WWI to a great power status; there were many people who admired his crushing of the Communists and Socialdemocrats; there were many people who liked his politics of anti-politics; there were many people who were antisemities. The intersection of these things was considerable, and may be considered as "support" for Hitler. But the US economy was much more intimately tied to that of the British Empire than to Germany, and the geopolitical interests of the US clashed with those of Japan, which was an ally of Germany, so the public opinion increasingly turned against Hitler, a process certainly helped by the appaling mistreatment of those who were defeated by Germany at the hands of their conquerors, and by the sinking of American merchants by German U-Boots. By the time the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour, public support for Nazi Germany, and even for neutrality, was quite low.


-Is it true that American and Soviet soldiers clasped hands amidst cries of "Amerikanskie tovarishci" (American comrades)? I find this hard to believe :confused:

Yes, American and Soviet troops fraternised when they met in defeated Germany. I don't know whether anyone shouted "Amerikanskie tovarischci", but wouldn't doubt it at all.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

He was a fascist but was not an Aryan.

Err... according to whom?

If we take the concept of "Aryan race" that was common among racialist theorists at the time, he - as most Italians - certainly qualified as "Aryan". I don't think even Hitler thought otherwise, ever.


So no, he didn't believe in the master Aryan race. His fascism- as someone else said- was more cultural.
A good example...
Under his rule, all males had the right to vote. I don't think females did. Any race could vote but their participation was restricted to their districts. He was one of those fascists who just believed in national sovereignty. He was not a mass murdering megalomaniac like Hitler.

Well, that would be great news to the Ethiopians. Of course Mussolini was a racist, and even an anti-semite. He just wasn't particularly fond of the idea of simply eradicating European Jews to the last individual.


However. Don't let me confuse you-a fascist is a fascist no matter how fancy their suit is. He may not have been a belligerent psychopath like Hitler, but he was a totalitarian douche-bag. He released his own "ten commandments". The last one- legitimately- was that "The ruler is always right".
Yeah, that's a direct quote.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/25467255

Yup, he not only was a fascist, but indeed the first fascist, or the first successful one. His regime was much more restrained than Hitler's, but not all of this was his "merit" either; he wasn't able to oust the monarchy, the Catholic Church was way more influent in Italy than in Germany, and he even had to deal with a much more independent minded Fascist Party (it was, after all, a meeting of the Grand Fascist Council that ousted him in 1943). Hitler faced much less internal friction than Mussolini, and his regime was much more unstructured and polyarchic, allowing him much more personal power.

Luís Henrique

[Poison Frog]

I find the question of support for Hitler in the US, UK, and elsewhere quite an interesting one. The question "why would people in the US support him?" seems to demonstrate the surprise many people in the 21st century will feel, when contemplating support for the Nazis in those countries.

I wonder if there is a tendency to look back and find Hitler's racial policies to be more significant than they actually were, in terms of the reasons the British and Americans had for opposing him. I bet a lot of people who saw him as evil, nevertheless agreed with the basics of his racism (not that they'd have agreed with the industrialised genocide he committed, if they'd been aware of it).

[Blake's Baby]

I think 'being aware' is very much part of the problem we have in understanding. People (some people) in the governments of Britain and the US knew what was happening in the death camps but the huge majority of people in both countries knew nothing about what was happening.

The liberation of Belsen, for instance (not itself a death camp but at that stage a concentration camp housing something like 20 times as many prisoners that it had been built for, many rapidly transported from Eastern Europe, with no food and a typhoid outbreak) was a horrific shock to the soldiers who arrived there and to the audiences who watched the newsreels back in Britain. People knew the nazis were oppressing and murdering people but the scale and horror I think weren't brought into people's consciousness until the end of the war. Certainly, they weren't known about at the beginning of the war (because the 'final solution' was only adopted after the war began).

[1848]

1. Stalin signed the Non-aggression Pact with Hitler because he wanted Hitler to wear down his Reich by attacking the western democracies and after the powers had all worn themselves with fighting, Stalin's Soviet Union would be ruling Europe. Also, Hitler signed this pact so he could combat the western democracies without fear from being attacked from the rear. Of course neither of them really trusted each other and Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa in 1941.

2. Hitler's inner circle consisted of trusted members of the fascist party. He did indeed go after communists.

3. Mussolini actually declared Italians to be descendants of the Aryan race. Also, he used ideas of the Holy Roman Empire at the height of its power to help unite the Italians under the notion that they were once one of the mightiest civilisations on the planet, and they perhaps could be again.

4. As stated earlier, Hitler and Stalin greatly distrusted each other. Perhaps Hitler simply decided to do away with the Slavic race and prevent the Soviet Union from mobilising in the future.

5. Yes, I do believe he had some Jewish ancestry.

6. The Battle of Stalingrad is arguably one of the most important military victories in history. The city's fall would most likely accompany the fall of the Soviet Union. If this had been lost, the Nazis would have seized control of the Volga River, a major communications and supply line and they would have crushed the morale of red army. Furthermore, if the Nazis had penetrated further into the USSR, they would perhaps enslave the Slavic people and take control of their industries and ultimately greatly affect the outcome of the war. The Battle of Stalingrad was VITAL in stopping the Nazi regime.

7. I don't believe Hitler had that many supporters in the U.S. According to The American Pageant, even Italian and German immigrants were loyal to the United States. Moreover, Roosevelt and Churchill both agreed that Germany must be eliminated first before addressing Japan.

8. They did in fact do this near Berlin when the Allied forces and the red army met (there's even a photo of a Soviet soldier shaking the hand of an American soldier). However, it was a fleeting feeling of camaraderie as mutual suspicions quickly built up.

9. Stalin. He looks like Mario!

[Blake's Baby]

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3. Mussolini actually declared Italians to be descendants of the Aryan race. Also, he used ideas of the Holy Roman Empire at the height of its power to help unite the Italians under the notion that they were once one of the mightiest civilisations on the planet, and they perhaps could be again...

Do you mean the Roman Empire? That was made by Italians and was the mightiest civilisation on the planet (ish). The 'Holy Roman Empire' ("neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire" in Voltaire's phrase) was a) founded by Germans; and b) not really a great civilisation.


...7. I don't believe Hitler had that many supporters in the U.S. According to The American Pageant, even Italian and German immigrants were loyal to the United States. Moreover, Roosevelt and Churchill both agreed that Germany must be eliminated first before addressing Japan...

I think this is pretty demonstrably false. From Walt Disney to Joseph Kennedy, there was a strong current in the American bourgeoisie that supported the Fascists and the Nazis. Look at the history of the Silvershirts for an example of a pro-fascist organisation. There wasn't a conflict between fascism and loyalty to the USA before the German declaration of war in 1941. The point was what was the best policy for the USA - support for Britain and France, or support for Italy and Germany? These debates were raging from the 1920s when Mussolini took power, and were given added impetus in 1933.

[billydan225]

What happend to the people's republic of Tuva after the war