What do you think of this statement?

[Arakir]

Phase 2: A dictator or elite leader (or leaders) must gain absolute control over the proletariat. During this phase, the new government exerts absolute control over the common citizen's personal choices -- including his or her education, religion, employment and even marriage. Collectivization of property and wealth must also take place.

This came from "How Communism Works" on HowStuffWorks.com. Is it true that Karl Marx wanted a totalitarian dictatorship with control over arbitrary things such as marriage? When I have read things about the dictatorship of the proletariat, it says that it is the rule of a class rather than the rule of some sort of despot. Is this article merely capitalist propaganda, or did Karl Marx actually want totalitarianism? If so, why did he want it?

[Fourth Internationalist]

That is not true at all. Marx advocated a dictatorship of the poletariat, not over the proletariat.

Edit: Reading about communism on HowStuffWorks is actually what drove me to communism. I think perhaps this might have been talking about Stalin, Mao, or even Lenin rather than Marx?

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Is this article merely capitalist propaganda
Yes.

[#FF0000]

I wouldn't call anything like this "capitalist propaganda". Most misinformation about communism or marxism is more about wild and unabashed ignorance than some sinister plot to mislead people.

As for "what Karl Marx wanted", the answer is simply a stateless and classless society. His views on how to get there changed drastically over time. However, it's simply absurd to suggest that he ever advocated for flat-out despotism. Frankly, the picture painted here is cartoonish even if applied to Stalin and Mao.

[La Guaneña]

Phase 2: A dictator or elite leader (or leaders) must gain absolute control over the proletariat. During this phase, the new government exerts absolute control over the common citizen's personal choices -- including his or her education, religion, employment and even marriage. Collectivization of property and wealth must also take place.


Well, that is some unhealthy bullshit on that website, comrade. But I'm happy that it seems that you saw through it.

First off, it's the proletariat that must gain absolute control over society as a whole, and then imposing it's interests over those of other classes. That means centralizing private property under class control, starting the process that brings communism.

Now that bullshit of controlling one's personal life in every aspect is just crazy. It talks about education, employment and marriage as if those things are oh so free in capitalism.

Those things will change a lot, but certainly not in the sense of being totally controlled by the government, keeping the individual only as a part of a machine.

This argument on the individual is very common from reactionary sources since they see only the bourgoise as an individuall, and you are damn right that this type of individual will no longer exist.

I would reccomend you reading some theory to get a nice grasp. There are some great study guides on RevLeft that can help you if you can't find a study group or nice organization where you live. I recommend looking up The Communist Manifesto, by Marx and Engels, the ABC of Communism by Bukharin and State and Revolution, by Lenin.

[Taters]

Honestly, it just sounds like someone who's uneducated (to say the least) on the subject of communism. People hear the words 'dictatorship of the proletariat' and instantly assume it means some kind of despotism.

[Synthesis-]

Sounds like deliberate misinformation, people who dont know anything write and they present it as fact and some ignorant people believe it as fact and then go around saying all that crap about socialism or communism. There is a strategy thats being used I think deliberately and it works on alot of people. I use to swallow some of that propaganda then i decided to see and read for myself and im here now.

[LOLseph Stalin]

It's capitalist propaganda pure and simple. Contrary to popular belief "dictatorship of the proletariat" isn't what is normally thought of as dictatorship in our society, the leadership of one individual. I think that is where a lot of people become confused tbh since DotP is actually the rule of the proletariat over society.

[Riveraxis]

Yeah, I think it's the "dictatorship of the proletariat". That doesn't sit well with everybody the first time you mention it.

I've had a hard time explaining to a number of people that we weren't advocating a dictatorship *over* the proletariat. Hah.

What they have to say about capitalism is interesting, at least...
"The essence of capitalism is economic freedom. Practices like ill-conceived subprime lending and crippling corporate fraud are side effects of a system that revolves around the individual's right to pursue his or her financial goals without the government getting involved. Capitalism's key early thinker, Scottish political economist Adam Smith, may have wanted economics separat*ed from politics for its own good, but economics is nonetheless entwined with ideas about the individual's place in society. This connection has politics written all over it (witness the shouts of "Die capitalist pigs" heard around the world)."

"Howstuffworks" should stick to doorknobs and laffy-taffy. Political philosophy apparently isn't it's strong suit.


Anyways I would call that capitalist propaganda rather than disinformation. Because if they are going to take the time to write a piece about philosophy, surely they have at least read the prime works of it... If so, what they are doing here is lying.

[#FF0000]

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, folks.

[Etular]

Phase 2: A dictator or elite leader (or leaders) must gain absolute control over the proletariat. During this phase, the new government exerts absolute control over the common citizen's personal choices -- including his or her education, religion, employment and even marriage. Collectivization of property and wealth must also take place.

As stated above, it's merely an ignorant statement - perhaps HowStuffWorks might defend themselves by stating "That's what some states claiming to be Communist used to do"; but, as stated, it's neither in theory nor the practice of most Communists.

I do know one or two misguided Stalinists (probably closer to fascists), personally, that believe in totalitarianism, but even then, that's also from their own misunderstanding of the final goal of Communism too.

I don't know if any such claims are made in Marx's works regarding the Socialist state as, quite simply, I've not yet gotten the opportunity to read them. From what excepts I have read and heard, however, such a statement seems contradictory to his views.