Texas tea party leader promotes Fascist Party as ‘pro-Constitution, pro-America’

[Leftsolidarity]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/19/texas-tea-party-leader-promotes-fascist-party-as-pro-constitution-pro-america/



A tea party leader in Texas is defending his promotion of the American Fascist Party as something he thought was “pro-Constitution, pro-America.”

James Ives, who was listed as the president (http://greaterfortbendteaparty.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=343:fbctp-general-meeting-recap-berryhills-012011&catid=35:local&Itemid=59) of the Greater Fort Bend County Tea Party in 2011, confirmed to The Texas Tribune (http://www.texastribune.org/2013/03/18/houston-area-tea-party-leader-had-ties-fascist-par/) on Monday that he had made a promotional video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aqXEN5iDpQ) for the American Fascist Party and advocated tea party principles on a Fascist Party message board (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/americanfascistparty/messages/340).
In the video, a man who looks like Ives sits in front of a Fascist Party logo wearing a uniform with yellow shoulder patches. Another photo shows a uniformed man sitting in front of a fascist cross. The blog that inspired (http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/10/25/blogger-who-inspired-norwegian-terrorist-returns-to-writing/) Norwegian mass shooter Anders Behring Breivik describes fascist solar crosses (http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/12/that-fascist-solar-cross.html) as “symbolic representations buried deep in the regions of the brain where the primal responses to stimuli are rage, awe, and fear.”


But Ives says that he was simply curious when he came to the Fascist Party as an “amateur political science student and frustrated novelist” in the early 2000s.

“From my point of view, it was all pro-Constitution, pro-America,” Ives explained to the Tribune. “I never did anything… There really weren’t enough people involved to be a gathering, let alone a rally. It was basically a scattering of people across the continent just complaining.”
The tea party leader claimed that he his participation in the Fascist Party was part of an effort to write a novel about what he thought was a cabal.

But instead of writing that novel, Ives wrote on the message board about how building the Fascist Party in America was “our spirit, our calling.”
“It will be our greatest challenge, and our sweetest victory, to finally surpass this dark menace, this numbing threat from the shadows, and replace it with the pure sunbeam that is our Fascist Faith, our Fascist Truth,” Ives wrote.

Republican state Sen. Dan Patrick pledged not to host Ives on his radio show in the future if the links to the Fascist Party proved to be true.
Patrick called the tea party leader’s involvement with the fascist movement “very disturbing, no matter how far in the past it is.” The state senator insisted that Ives had “never been on our payroll, never been an employee.”


Watch this video from James Ives, uploaded in 2006.

9aqXEN5iDpQ

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Even though this isn't an argument against the tea party movement, it is still fucked up as hell. How on earth is fascism "pro-constitution"?

[B5C]

Even though this isn't an argument against the tea party movement, it is still fucked up as hell.

It's an argument that the tea party could have become an fascist-type movement if the US economic still continued to fall apart. Ultra-right wing parties grow in economic depressions. America's recession didn't hit has hard like Greece had and that is why we don't seen an American version of the Golden Dawn.

[Paul Pott]

The tea party, despite being a petit-bourgeois movement, had no possibility of turning into a fascist movement. This just proves that an openly ideological fascist movement in the US isn't totally impossible and might just gain a little support among the petit-bourgeoisie.

[Leftsolidarity]

The tea party, despite being a petit-bourgeois movement, had no possibility of turning into a fascist movement. This just proves that an openly ideological fascist movement in the US isn't totally impossible and might just gain a little support among the petit-bourgeoisie.

What makes you say it had no possibilites of becoming a fascist movement?

I'm not someone who likes to run around labeling everything as fascist but the tea party movement always seem to me to run the risk of morphing into an Americanized version of a fascist movement.

[Paul Pott]

What makes you say it had no possibilites of becoming a fascist movement?

I'm not someone who likes to run around labeling everything as fascist but the tea party movement always seem to me to run the risk of morphing into an Americanized version of a fascist movement.

Because it was a protest movement against the Democrats fully within the ideological confines provided by the Republicans.

A fascist movement would gain influence in the context of a true systemic crisis like Greece and/or a powerful worker's movement. The tea party ideology was mixed paleoconservative, evangelical christian, and libertarian/objectivist ideology. That's not what fascist movements have ever been made of. Fascists seek to abandon bourgeois democracy and establish corporatism.

[DasFapital]

I'm pretty sure paleoconservatives would swing towards fascism. Just look at Pat Buchanan.

[Comrade Nasser]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/19/texas-tea-party-leader-promotes-fascist-party-as-pro-constitution-pro-america/

From what I have learned from asking fellow Leftists is that Fascism and Nationalism are both VERY reactionary political ideologies, and are catered to target to those with very little or no educational background. They give promises of making their countries great and powerful again and strengthening their economies and give them a sense of "My country is better than yours!" which often leads to virulent racism (Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy). These often attract young people who often have led sad lives and drags them onto the path of fascism. Very disgusting political ideology, my most hated really..

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

Fascism does tend to grow in times of crisis. I think it is important to mention that it also grows when there is an actual threat of seizure of power by working class organizations. The bourgeoisie are not too keen to cede their power to a fascist movement unless they are very afraid of being expropriated. Such was the case in Germany and Italy. Fascism in the US has historically worn a hood.

I think that if conditions were right, most of the Tea Party faithful would support fascism. But the Tea Party itself is a faux populist, reactionary, racist cesspool of a movment - funded by billionaires.

[B5C]

I'm pretty sure paleoconservatives would swing towards fascism. Just look at Pat Buchanan.

Also note the American Fascist Movement endorsed Ron Paul.
http://www.americanfascistmovement.com/news.html

The Fascist movement has been very interested with the Libertarian movement which the Tea Party is based.

[Zostrianos]

That is the crappiest ad I ever saw in my life. I think a 5 year old could have done a better job.

[Leftsolidarity]

Also note the American Fascist Movement endorsed Ron Paul.
http://www.americanfascistmovement.com/news.html

The Fascist movement has been very interested with the Libertarian movement which the Tea Party is based.

It also wasn't out of the ordinary for Fascist organizations to openly be recruiting at large Tea Party events.

[Orange Juche]

It's an argument that the tea party could have become an fascist-type movement if the US economic still continued to fall apart. Ultra-right wing parties grow in economic depressions. America's recession didn't hit has hard like Greece had and that is why we don't seen an American version of the Golden Dawn.

Unfortunately, I don't think America is going to escape a position where its own Golden Dawn party perks out its head.

[Os Cangaceiros]

There will never be a "Golden Dawn"-type fascist organization in the USA. The political traditions of the far-right here are just vastly different from the traditions of the European far-right. Furthermore I don't know what kind of political implications involving a nation of 300 million can be drawn from the actions of one wingnut.

[Orange Juche]

There will never be a "Golden Dawn"-type fascist organization in the USA. The political traditions of the far-right here are just vastly different from the traditions of the European far-right. Furthermore I don't know what kind of political implications involving a nation of 300 million can be drawn from the actions of one wingnut.

Personally, I don't think any political implications can be drawn from that one guy, but I don't think anyone was doing that.

If there is a "Golden Dawn" here I suspect it will be an "Americanized" far-right. There's some "third position"/"freedom party" that started that's similar in language to libertarians. Except freedoms include things like "freedom from socialists" and similar nonsense, they're openly racist, etc. I don't think it would resemble fascism as we've seen it, it'd be its own thing, but it'd still be terrible.

[MXNSTER]

Also note the American Fascist Movement endorsed Ron Paul.

The Fascist movement has been very interested with the Libertarian movement which the Tea Party is based.

To add to that, Ron Paul was chairman of Koch Brother's CSE before it was split up to become FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity... Koch Brothers also started the first Tea Party group 2 years before it became mainstream.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

Again, US fascism has always meant the KKK. It was a large movement in the 1920s and still festers throughout the South and Midwest. That does not mean fascism won't take a different form if it re-emerges. But I agree that it won't be a Nazi group (too foreign), and it won't look precisely like fascist movements in other countries. It will be a terror organization that is racist, sexist, nativist, violently anti-union/anti-worker, etc.

[Hexen]

Even though this isn't an argument against the tea party movement, it is still fucked up as hell. How on earth is fascism "pro-constitution"?

Because the constitution was originally written for wealthy white males that control and own the modes/means of production and white male privileged individuals.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

Because the constitution was originally written for wealthy white males that control and own the modes/means of production and white male privileged individuals.
That sounds like guilt by association. Fascists would almost certainly violate the constitution and bill of rights far more even than the extant US government. Fascism is a fairly specific phenomenon. It is not a general epithet to pin upon those that you oppose.

[conmharáin]

Fascism has a very specific evolutionary history not shared by the "Tea Party" movement. For all their buffoonery, right-wing anti-socialists are vaguely conscious of a relationship between socialism and fascism. Granted this awareness is only ever expressed as decrying political opposition, but socialism and fascism aren't wholly unrelated. Fascism, while itself capitalistic, demands political revolution and radical restructuring of the state apparatus. The kernel of fascism is expressed in the works of Georges Sorel, who accepted some Marxist notions of class and state. Sorel might be called the "original" revisionist, though: he believed there would be a class-collaborative revolution that would "revitalize" humanity. In his conception, the systemic problems of capitalism were not material or social, but rather spiritual or perhaps even biological: the natural order of things was that there should be a bourgeoisie and a proletariat and a state that maintained bourgeois power. Somehow, though, this order becomes corrupted, and the bourgeoisie becomes unfit to rule and the proletariat unfit to work. Humanity is thus rejuvenated through violence, and violence must happen in an unending cycle to preserve the natural order. This serves as the justification for fascist terror.

Note how conservatives in the United States tend to at once champion the right to bear arms and vilify violent overthrow of elected government. For all their talk about oppressive government and Obama being at least as bad as Hitler, they sure don't seem to give a lone fuck about actually organizing revolution. That method would more than likely see comparisons to historical fascism. Imperialism really is so much more sinister than fascism to my mind, though. A fascist dictatorship is much more revolting to people than sophisticated methods of oppression. A "Tea Party" reign of terror would be devastating to capitalism, and I think the bourgeoisie have some awareness of this.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

That sounds like guilt by association. Fascists would almost certainly violate the constitution and bill of rights far more even than the extant US government. Fascism is a fairly specific phenomenon. It is not a general epithet to pin upon those that you oppose.

It doesn't matter if they'll violate the Constitution, most "pro-constitution" type groups don't give a fuck about it, they'll interpret the thing like they interpret their Bibles, aka cherry picking. Love the first amendment until Muslims try excercising it, love the second amendment until minorities organize and arm themselves, etc, etc, the rhetoric never fits reality with these types, they've never made much sense so don't expect them to.

[RadioRaheem84]

Does it have to be exactly like Italian fascism to be fascism? There were plenty of fascist like movements that aligned themselves against the strong communist current before WWII. Many of them were just nationalist, religious or simply a junta. Imperial Japan was not exactly fascist, neither was Metaxas in Greece, etc. I could totally see a nationalist religious movement taking hold here.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

Why is it whenever the NSM (America's largest neo-nazi group) appears in public, there are always tons of bald-headed pigs there to protect them? And we know that neo-nazis, mainstream corporate politicians, and law enforcement all collaborate (e.g., "Sheriff Joe", Russel Pearce, and J.T. Ready). The media doesn't talk about it but that doesn't mean America doesn't have its Golden Dawn. When they rally to terrorize immigrants, the media just invoke the trope of the "ordinary American" and don't mention it's Nazis.

Tea Party Nation says: The future well-being of Amerika depends on the preservation of the "white race" (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-group-warns-white-extinction-america)


Fascism has a very specific evolutionary history not shared by the "Tea Party" movement. For all their buffoonery, right-wing anti-socialists are vaguely conscious of a relationship between socialism and fascism. Granted this awareness is only ever expressed as decrying political opposition, but socialism and fascism aren't wholly unrelated. Fascism, while itself capitalistic, demands political revolution and radical restructuring of the state apparatus.

Sarah Palin calls for 'revolution' in speech to tea party convention (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/07/sarah-palin-tea-party-speech)

Michelle Bachmann calls for 'armed revolution' (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/03/23/36990/bachmann-armed-and-dangerous/)

Local Republican Party Newsletter Suggests 'Armed Revolution' If President Obama is Reelected (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/05/09/481018/local-republican-party-newsletter-suggests-armed-revolution-if-president-obama-is-reelected/)

[Geiseric]

This thread has a lot of determinism in it, such as the idea that fascism rises with depressions, which is hogwash. There have been depressions through the 1800s and no fascism. Fascism rises when the working class sees no alternative to ultra capitaism, due to a failure of the communists to gain class hegemony. The italian and german experiances was after failed revolutionary attempts, due to sectarianism. The KP and SP of germany refused to work with eachother, and fought eachother as much as with the fascists, same for the CP of Italy and their SP. The communist party in germany was hardly organized as well due to a haf decade of riding the SPD, during the "second period".

[conmharáin]

...

That's more than a little creepy, but I guess I still find it hard to see American conservatives actually going through with it. Then again, I wonder if they said the same thing about the Blackshirts.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Does it have to be exactly like Italian fascism to be fascism? There were plenty of fascist like movements that aligned themselves against the strong communist current before WWII. Many of them were just nationalist, religious or simply a junta. Imperial Japan was not exactly fascist, neither was Metaxas in Greece, etc. I could totally see a nationalist religious movement taking hold here.
Historically, I would look at the countries of Germany, Austria, Romania, Hungary, and Italy as the prime examples of Fascism. Countries like Japan, South Africa, and a handful of South American regimes either admired or modeled themselves from fascist politics, but I wouldn't necessary call them fascist.
The only difference of those aforementioned European countries is that Germany's fascism was explicitly racist and anti-Semitic, whereas the others were more focused on extreme nationalism.

That was a different time though. Fascism will have a different face if it ever comes to America, but something fascists have always held true no matter what country is that is
1) it positions itself as a middle position (not identifying as left or right),
2) it claims to transcend class struggle (fascists view themselves trying to fix the problems of the nation as a whole, to preserve their identity and culture)
3) it is a grassroots movement, and
4) extreme nationalism. Strong sense of identity and cultural hegemony.

However, I think a trait that would be possibly dropped from American Fascism is it's critical voice towards capitalism.
Also, we should study the cases of countries like Austria, where the ruling elite was able to pacify the fascists (it had a strong rank-and-file appeal in that country; strong proletariat base) in which the ruling conservative party kept them at bay for many years (only until the fascists were able to take over with surprise near the end of WWII). My memory is rusty, but it was either Austria or Romania where a small fascist minority was allowed to be in a coalition government until they could grasp power (the American equivalent would obviously be Fascists being seated in Congress, or wielding other positions of power).

[Riveraxis]

I think this guy was just testing the waters.

There are probably more fascist sympathizers than him in their ranks. But now they know better than to come out about it.

[RadioRaheem84]

Historically, I would look at the countries of Germany, Austria, Romania, Hungary, and Italy as the prime examples of Fascism. Countries like Japan, South Africa, and a handful of South American regimes either admired or modeled themselves from fascist politics, but I wouldn't necessary call them fascist.
The only difference of those aforementioned European countries is that Germany's fascism was explicitly racist and anti-Semitic, whereas the others were more focused on extreme nationalism.

That was a different time though. Fascism will have a different face if it ever comes to America, but something fascists have always held true no matter what country is that is
1) it positions itself as a middle position (not identifying as left or right),
2) it claims to transcend class struggle (fascists view themselves trying to fix the problems of the nation as a whole, to preserve their identity and culture)
3) it is a grassroots movement, and
4) extreme nationalism. Strong sense of identity and cultural hegemony.

However, I think a trait that would be possibly dropped from American Fascism is it's critical voice towards capitalism.
Also, we should study the cases of countries like Austria, where the ruling elite was able to pacify the fascists (it had a strong rank-and-file appeal in that country; strong proletariat base) in which the ruling conservative party kept them at bay for many years (only until the fascists were able to take over with surprise near the end of WWII). My memory is rusty, but it was either Austria or Romania where a small fascist minority was allowed to be in a coalition government until they could grasp power (the American equivalent would obviously be Fascists being seated in Congress, or wielding other positions of power).

I could see a fascit like party like the Fatherland and Liberty movement in Chile which openly waged war against Allende during the 70s. It was not explicitly fascist at all, but shared traits with it and it was rabidly capitalist.

I think the Tea Party mirrors it a lot. The point being though is that it's wild how even though the Tea Partiers are unsuspecting of it, they still all mirror the same right wing movements of the past and today. These people do not even have to know about them, they just mirror them to a tee. It amazes me how the system itself creates identical forces in differing countries with totally different cultural beliefs and norms. The outcome is still the same.