Arnold Schwarzenneger and his anti-immigrant polic

[Hitman47]

I wanted to ask what your view is on California governor Arnold Schwarzenneger. He wants to take out basic services out of illegal immigrants that are in the state. Whats your stance on that?

I being a son of a former illegal immigrant family am really shocked and can't believe what this man is trying to do.

On december 12th there was this little protest, where it asked all illegal immigrants and legal immigrants to not go to work, school, or buy stuff------- to voice how much economic necessity there is for illegal immigrants in the country.

I didn't go to school that day.

Now my friend are bashing me for taking this stance, they say that they are "illegal" in the first place.


But I believe if a person coming to the U.S has the right to pursue his or her happiness, either way isn't that what the U.S is supposedly about. :rolleyes:

Like the hilarious Maddox has said: "Because saying that an illegal immigrant doesn't deserve to be paid the same wages as an American because he doesn't belong here in the first place is like saying that a person trapped in a well shouldn't be saved because he shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place."


:D


Anyways Im furious because im a communist and illegal immigrants have tough lives, and even more if the state take away their basic services.

[monkeydust]

Arnie can be such a fool.

I can just picture it now Arnie doing a speech with his accent saying "Only Americans have da right to live in this country, I do not like immigrants blah blah blah"

I've also noticed that his environmental policy is well.......non existant.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Illegal immigrants, by definition, are illegal. So punishment is mandatory.

It is the laws which make illegal immigrants illegal that needs to be tackled.

[Hate Is Art]

[QUOTE]It is the laws which make illegal immigrants illegal that needs to be tackled. [QUOTE]

Very True, did you know in England there are more Austrailian and New Zealenders living Illegally than any other nation, this isn't higlighted in the press though. . . hmmmm I wonder why?

[Germanator]

This shows nothing more than the lack of logical thinking exhibited by the American ruling class (this applies to most politicians, left and right).

The general argument is as follows: "They aren't supposed to be here in the first place, so they shouldn't get health care or education."

Using that reasoning, a person who falls in a well shouldn't be rescued because they shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place. These people aren't "illegal immigrants", they are human beings. Slapping a label on them merely makes it easier to dehumanize them and justify xenophobia. If we really want to project ourselves as a benevolent nation, we'd stop treating immigrants, legal or illegal, like dirt.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Ironic that Arnold is doing this since he wasn't even born here.

[Ortega]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 4 2004, 06:51 PM
Ironic that Arnold is doing this since he wasn't even born here.
Very...

[Bradyman]

It's also a bad move economically.

In California, around 70% of the agricultural workforce is in fact illegal immigrants.

[Osman Ghazi]

True, but the $1,000,000,000 economy of California hardly depends on agriculture

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 4 2004, 11:51 PM
Ironic that Arnold is doing this since he wasn't even born here.
Ironic since nearly all Americans were 'illegal' immigrants just a few hundred years ago and did more to the natives than just sponging off their system.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Nice!

There was a bottom to that spiralling argument and Left has hit it.

Beautiful argument. Find me a family which hasnt descended from "illegal immigrants"!

[Rightside]

http://www.frontierwebdesign.com/docs/mexifornia.jpg

[Intifada]

rightside, you are a racist fuckwit! :angry:

[Al Creed]

What else is Ironic, is that California (along with Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Utah, and pieces of Wyoming and Colorado) is stolen land.

Stolen from Mexico, by the US, after the American-Mexan War, which ended in 1848.

http://www.unm.edu/~larranag/conf/page/guadhOE8.JPG

There are no Illegal Immigrants in California, as far as I'm concerned. Just people coming home, and taking back what was stolen 100-someodd years ago.

"Mexifornia?" Read a History book, once in a while, Rightside.

[JustSoul]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 05:59 PM
What else is Ironic, is that California (along with Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Utah, and pieces of Wyoming and Colorado) is stolen land.

Stolen from Mexico, by the US, after the American-Mexan War, which ended in 1848.

http://www.unm.edu/~larranag/conf/page/guadhOE8.JPG

There are no Illegal Immigrants in California, as far as I'm concerned. Just people coming home, and taking back what was stolen 100-someodd years ago.

"Mexifornia?" Read a History book, once in a while, Rightside.
And what is wrong with taken land when you win the war. All countries in world history were formed like that. By wining wars and capturing land , i don't really see your point.

Iam also illegal immigration but for making legal immigration a bit easier. That's the exact same reason why legalising light drugs actually lowers the roberry/violent crime numbers .

Ps Iam anti-racist but you are wrong.

[Al Creed]

You don't see my point? Oh, my friend, How can you not?

Does the word IMPERIALISM mean anything to you?

[JustSoul]

Are you a moron? Every country on the planet was made this way. If you have problems with that then too bad , but you can't change this fact.

[Al Creed]

WHere is it written, that says I, or anyone, can't?

Link me, please.

[JustSoul]

You can't change what have happened already. Wow what a hard idea.

[ComradeRed]

Think about it, the illegal immigrants are the backbone of the californian economy. If we deport them, then their economy will crumble. Who would work for minimum wage for hard work? Illegal immigrants.

[BuyOurEverything]

JustSoul: No, you cannot change the past and yes all countries were formed like that but it just shows the arbitrarity of borders and the stupidity of nationalism. Illegal immigrants have just as much right to be here as any of us.

Rightside: Well you've just confirmed that you're a complete fucking racist. Fuck you.

[JustSoul]

Without borders and laws against immigration no economy can function.

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2004, 01:16 PM
Without borders and laws against immigration no economy can function.
Errrrrrrr Why?!?!? explain?!?

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2004, 01:16 PM
Without borders and laws against immigration no economy can function.
Yes...maybe you should explain your assertion. This brash generalization might need some suppporting, unless you want to continue writing statements without any kind of proof. I don't think you will find a large number of people coming to a mostly critical leftist site just to listen to unsubstanciated propaganda.

[Hate Is Art]

there is no explanation, just utter bollocks.

[JustSoul]

It should be obvious. With no borders and immigration all social policies would be useless unless everyone in the world has roughly a same economical situation and that will never happen. What stops millions of poor Chinese moving to Europe/Usa for a better support? Only laws and borders.

[praxis1966]

I suppose you guys (JustSoul and Rightside) are correct in your assertions. While we're at it, why don't we tear down the Statue of Liberty? We wouldn't want the inscription at the base "Bring us your restless, your poor, your weary masses" making us all look like hypocrites now would we?

[JustSoul]

How is it even relevant? You base all your argumention on one quote that has really nothing to do with a discussion. Ok.

[timbaly]

Illegal Aliens can not be allowed to have state health care and drivers liscences since they are getting these services without paying any taxes to support them. It would be crazy for California and the US as a whole to expel the illegal population, and they would never dream of doing it because the illegals are a major force in the economy. Without the economy would worsen, because of this , what should be done is grant legal status to those illegals within the country, allow them to have workers permits. The permits should make it illegal to pay them under minimum wage which would make their situations a little better. I think this is a much more likely plan to be put into affect in the US and one very similar plan is now being settled in congress I believe. If everyone was allowed in the US an overpopulation problem would probaly arise in the big cities like NY and LA. Can you imagine how many more third worlders would try to get in the US if there was no possibility of being thrown out or being caught border hopping?

As for the governor I doubt he will go on an anit-immigrant crusade for the simple fact that he needs the hispanic vote for re-election. If he takes action against the illegals he risks being branded a racist by various hispanic organizations which could be his downfall in the next election. He entered the US legally and probaly expects others to do it the same way if they want to get into the US, thats why I think his opinions are what they are despite being an immigrant himself.

[praxis1966]

They're relevant because the Statue of Liberty is supposed to be just that. It is a symbol of welcome to people of other countries. I believe I was attempting to suggest that your arguments are at best puerile, and at worst un-American. I apologize for my subtlety, maybe next time I should be a little more obvious.

[Urban Rubble]

Great post Timbaly, you hit the nail on the head.

First of all, nobody is talking about deporting people, not even Arnold is that stupid. He will probably take away their driver's licenses and all that other stuff as well.

Like Timbaly said, they don't pay for these services. What we need to change is the immigration laws. I can't say that I have the answers, but the laws need to accomodate these people, they need to have the oppurtunity to pay taxes like everyone else and then they can use public services. Deporting violent criminals would be a start (in my opinion).

Here's a wild theory, the U.S could stop contributing to deterioration od the countries where these people are coming from, then they wouldn't be forced to "get on the winning side". Want to stem the flow of Mexican immigrants ? Stop exporting your jobs to Mexico for cheap labor.

[drdoogie]

This is nothing new. Ever since the first immigrants to this country had kids who became second-generation immigrants, there has been anger directed toward newcomers. It's all pretty stupid if you consider that place of birth is an accident, and that nearly everything in America that could be called even marginally good has come from immigrants.

[Valishin]

Like the hilarious Maddox has said: "Because saying that an illegal immigrant doesn't deserve to be paid the same wages as an American because he doesn't belong here in the first place is like saying that a person trapped in a well shouldn't be saved because he shouldn't have been playing around the well in the first place."
Are you claiming that illegals ended up in the US by accident?


Ironic that Arnold is doing this since he wasn't even born here.
Of course he is here legally.

Immigrants are not the problem, illegal immigrants however are. These people must never be rewarded for breaking the law. They want to come to the US then by all means apply for a work visa and go through the process like the legal immigrants do.


Beautiful argument. Find me a family which hasnt descended from "illegal immigrants"!
There was no government declaring them illegal when they first landed. And the Constitution grandfathered those who were already there in as citizens. Don't forget that millions of people have immigrated legally and their famlies have grown from there.


What else is Ironic, is that California (along with Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Utah, and pieces of Wyoming and Colorado) is stolen land
Every nation on the planet in existance today was forged from land that was take from someone else. This practice only became considered unacceptable throughout the world in very recent history. Specificly after WW2 and Germany's attempts to do so.


Think about it, the illegal immigrants are the backbone of the californian economy. If we deport them, then their economy will crumble. Who would work for minimum wage for hard work? Illegal immigrants.
It is important for Americans to understand that there is truth to this. Not that the jobs won't get filled just that it will effect the prices of goods and services. Every american needs to consider this before taking a possition about wanting to deport illegals. If we can accept the results then by all means lets start enforcing the law.


Without borders and laws against immigration no economy can function.
Depends on your tax structure. And of course social programs would have to be nearly non-existances.

praxis, interesting image. But you might want to research the indians historical stance on the subject. They not recognize a legal right to deny anyone access to the land.


Illegal Aliens can not be allowed to have state health care and drivers liscences since they are getting these services without paying any taxes to support them.
For health care that is true, but the drivers license issue is completely different and has nothing to do with taxes. A valid license will enable you to register to vote. A right reserved for citizens. On top of that driving is a privilage not a right. As such those who are here illegally should not be rewarded with such a privilage.


Want to stem the flow of Mexican immigrants ? Stop exporting your jobs to Mexico for cheap labor.
Would you rather those people not have jobs? You should always consider the results of what your asking for.

[Osman Ghazi]

Its all fine and well to say that illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed into the country however it isn't possible to just magically wave ones finger and make them dissappear or stop coming. The fact is that they are there and they are coming. Therefore, they should be treated as all humans should: with dignity and respect. Furthermore, people do not have to earn your respect or your kindness. They deserve it through the simple fact that they are human.

[Valishin]

Furthermore, people do not have to earn your respect or your kindness. They deserve it through the simple fact that they are human.
On the contrary respect only comes from being earned. You are correct they should be treated with dignity however as government should treat all people. But being treated with dignity and being rewarded for committing a crime are not even close to being the same thing. If someone breaks the law then they should be punished. It is never condusive to reward lawbreakers.

[praxis1966]

Of course he is here legally.

Somehow I fail to see the relevance of this statement.


Immigrants are not the problem, illegal immigrants however are. These people must never be rewarded for breaking the law. They want to come to the US then by all means apply for a work visa and go through the process like the legal immigrants do.

Let me ask you a question, if federal law stated that standing on your head was illegal, would you be making the same argument? Let's say I was arrested for standing on my head, would your response be, "Well, he asked for it. Standing on your head is a class C felony"?


There was no government declaring them illegal when they first landed. And the Constitution grandfathered those who were already there in as citizens. Don't forget that millions of people have immigrated legally and their famlies have grown from there.

Am I the only one here who's heard of the Alien and Sedition Act?


Every nation on the planet in existance today was forged from land that was take from someone else. This practice only became considered unacceptable throughout the world in very recent history. Specificly after WW2 and Germany's attempts to do so.

Actually, I'm sure if you asked a victim of the Napoleonic Wars or the Moors at the hands of European Crusaders I'm quite certain they would differ with you. I would ask for you, but the rotator splint in my time machine is on the fritz.



Without borders and laws against immigration no economy can function.

Depends on your tax structure. And of course social programs would have to be nearly non-existances.

Ok, let me just say this. We have both borders and immigration legislation. Somehow, from it's inception as a hodge-podge of loosely collected prospecting towns to it's growth to the 5th largest economy in the world, people are still doing plenty of business in California despite the "brown menace" otherwise known as illegal immigrants. I think you would be hard pressed to establish a statistical correlation (much less a causal relationship) between the two, but it would appear that these so-called illegal immigrants have had nothing but positive effects on that state's economy.


praxis, interesting image. But you might want to research the indians historical stance on the subject. They not recognize a legal right to deny anyone access to the land.

Now this statement just pisses me off. Firstly, I understand that for the most part, Native Americans did not have a system of ownership. The image was not meant to be part of a doctoral thesis on the effect of the Spanish conquistadors on Aztec society, which should (by the way) be patently obvious. Although you are most certainly wrong, since the Native pictured in that image is wearing a head dress indicative of membership the upper crust of Aztec society which could more accurately be characterized as comperable to that of ancient Egypt rather than say, the Cherokee. Let me state this as simply as possible, the Aztecs had private property prior to the Spanish arriving and forcibly converting everyone to Catholocism and making them feel guilty about running around without shirts.

Secondly, don't ever look down your nose at me again, you motherless mouth breather you. Why don't you crawl back into whatever cave you crawled out of?


Would you rather those people not have jobs? You should always consider the results of what your asking for.

Now I'm sure that Redstar2000 will show up in this thread eventually and criticize my final assertion as a gross oversimplification, but I'll give it a whirl anyhow. If in fact the jobs in Mexico which were provided by companies like Mars Candy (who now pays Mexican workers less than one dollar an hour in contrast to the nearly 20 dollars an hour it used to pay it's American workers to perform the same duties) a living wage I highly doubt there would be so many Mexicans living and working illegally in this country. Why else would they be here in the first place?

Have a fabulous day, elswhere.

[praxis1966]

It is never condusive to reward lawbreakers.

It appears as though your comprehension of the definition of the word "condusive" is a little shaky. Webster defines the word as follows: having the quality of conducing, promoting or futhering; tending to advance or bring about; followed by to. As baseball coach Yogi Berra used to say, "It's true, you can look it up." Your usage begs the question, rewarding lawbrakers is never condusive to what? I believe the word you were searching for was constructive, but that's just a shot in the dark.

In either case, in response to such a blanket statement I would say the following. The great naturalist, philosopher, and American romantic Henry David Thoreau once said, "No generalization is worth a dam, including this one."

[Valishin]

Let me ask you a question, if federal law stated that standing on your head was illegal, would you be making the same argument?
First off I would take the issue to the SC as the fed doesn't have this authority. But if it was deemed that the law was legit then yes I would make that arguement until the law was changed. I don't like speed limits but they exist for a reason.


Actually, I'm sure if you asked a victim of the Napoleonic Wars or the Moors at the hands of European Crusaders I'm quite certain they would differ with you. I would ask for you, but the rotator splint in my time machine is on the fritz.
I said when it become unacceptable throughout the world. It has always been unacceptable among the group being conqured.
Sorry about the rotator splint, and I just sold my last one two days ago. I think I might get a new shipment in next week though. But I only have access to the 381C model. Hope you don't need that 381B model, its a bear to get.


...I think you would be hard pressed to establish a statistical correlation (much less a causal relationship) between the two, but it would appear that these so-called illegal immigrants have had nothing but positive effects on that state's economy.
That is true, but ask yourself this. Remove the immigration restrictions and allow all the Mexicans who want too to come up to Cali and get welfare, educate their kids, and fill the emergancy rooms. Then what will happen?


since the Native pictured in that image is wearing a head dress indicative of membership the upper crust of Aztec society which could more accurately be characterized as comperable to that of ancient Egypt rather than say, the Cherokee.
And which group was directly involved with the group of settlers commonly referred to as "pilgrams". Conquistadors were not the same as pilgrams.


Secondly, don't ever look down your nose at me again, you motherless mouth breather you. Why don't you crawl back into whatever cave you crawled out of?
Now that was highly uncalled for. Your the one posting a picture that quite frankly is incorrect based on the reference it makes.


If in fact the jobs in Mexico which were provided by companies like Mars Candy (who now pays Mexican workers less than one dollar an hour in contrast to the nearly 20 dollars an hour it used to pay it's American workers to perform the same duties) a living wage I highly doubt there would be so many Mexicans living and working illegally in this country.
And why would Mars not have maintained the company in the US if not to get the excellent wages? Remember you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you have give companies a reason to be there or you don't.


I believe the word you were searching for was constructive, but that's just a shot in the dark.
Fair enough, I stand corrected

[praxis1966]

First off I would take the issue to the SC as the fed doesn't have this authority. But if it was deemed that the law was legit then yes I would make that arguement until the law was changed. I don't like speed limits but they exist for a reason.

I'm not sure what the logic in this is or who would deem it legitimate and on what premises. I don't know why you can't just skip go and collect the 200 dollars.


I said when it become unacceptable throughout the world. It has always been unacceptable among the group being conqured.
Sorry about the rotator splint, and I just sold my last one two days ago. I think I might get a new shipment in next week though. But I only have access to the 381C model. Hope you don't need that 381B model, its a bear to get.

The history of imperialism goes all the way back to the Byzantine empire under the reign of King Nebudchanezzar (sp?). This occured thousands of years before the birth of Christ. I believe the only reason imperialism didn't become a dirty word then was because of the of the monumental inability of the ruling class, or anyone else for that matter, to effectively disseminate information. There was, until the advent of classical education, a scarcity of literate members of the general populus. This may be a case of having a good eye for the blatantly obvious, but i'm sure this condition (or limit-situation as Friere would say) would radically impede the cognition of such information.

Actually mine is a 381D. It's relatively new and only came out in Japan about six months ago. It's a left side driver and everything.


That is true, but ask yourself this. Remove the immigration restrictions and allow all the Mexicans who want too to come up to Cali and get welfare, educate their kids, and fill the emergancy rooms. Then what will happen?

This is pure supposition and speculation, but I imagine the standard of living would dramatically increase not just for the immigrants in question, but for all Californians. How are we going to know there isn't a 5 year old Panamanian boy waiting to metamorphosize into the next Shakespeare if we fail to teach him to read?


And which group was directly involved with the group of settlers commonly referred to as "pilgrams". Conquistadors were not the same as pilgrams.

Actually, the first people to settle in that area were Spanish Jews attempting to escape the Spanish Inquisition, what is now known as New Mexico. I'm quite certain of the inevitability of the two groups coming into contact with one another at some point.


Now that was highly uncalled for. Your the one posting a picture that quite frankly is incorrect based on the reference it makes.

What I took issue with was your implied dismissal of my intelligence.


And why would Mars not have maintained the company in the US if not to get the excellent wages? Remember you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you have give companies a reason to be there or you don't.

Your guess is as good as mine. The year prior to that particular factory's deportation south of the border, it made a net profit of over 100 million dollars.

[Valishin]

This is pure supposition and speculation, but I imagine the standard of living would dramatically increase not just for the immigrants in question, but for all Californians. How are we going to know there isn't a 5 year old Panamanian boy waiting to metamorphosize into the next Shakespeare if we fail to teach him to read
Which is also pure speculation. So I have to go with the idea that is based on some form of logic. I see no logical reasoning to think allowing unlimited access not only to the state but also to the welfare, education, and medical systems would cause the state to prosper. There is just too much potential for abuse there to not assume the worse.


Actually, the first people to settle in that area were Spanish Jews attempting to escape the Spanish Inquisition, what is now known as New Mexico. I'm quite certain of the inevitability of the two groups coming into contact with one another at some point
But none the less they were still not the group we know today as pilgrams were they? And the pic specificlly references the statement as being to pilgrams. Yes it is a play on words as it is suppose to be sort of a shot at the only John Wayne quotes as well but still the use of pilgrams does make it incorrect because the indians the pilgrams delt with did not hold those ideas of land ownership.


What I took issue with was your implied dismissal of my intelligencePlease quote where I did so, I did not mean to do so and do not see where I did such a thing.


Your guess is as good as mine...
Meaning the jobs would not be taken down to Mexico in the first place if not for the extremely low wages the companies can get away with because of the lower cost of living and lower standard of living. So how again are these people going to make a living?

[Osman Ghazi]

To Valashin

if you truly think that human are trained animals that have to jump through hoops before you can treat them as an equal then my condolences to you.

However, id appreciate if you try to wrap your head around this:
NB: these are facts and are not disputable

There are a lot of illegal immigrants in California
There are a lot of illegal immigrnats coming to California
It is impossible to stop them from getting in
Even if you managed to deport every illegal immigrant in California, more would just keep coming.
If they do not get caught, they will be forced to live in horrible conditions and they will no doubt be exploited as cheap labour.
By treating them as criminals, they will be forever forced to live in horrid conditions and positive developement will become impossible for them.
So basically what Arnold is saying is that he wants to save money by treating illegal immigrants as sub-human. And belive me he has to save a shitload of cash or hell be proper fucked.

[timbaly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 01:15 PM

Illegal Aliens can not be allowed to have state health care and drivers liscences since they are getting these services without paying any taxes to support them.
For health care that is true, but the drivers license issue is completely different and has nothing to do with taxes. A valid license will enable you to register to vote. A right reserved for citizens. On top of that driving is a privilage not a right. As such those who are here illegally should not be rewarded with such a privilage.


I should have elaborated on the drivers licences, since they are allowed to have licenses they will get cars and drive them, which creates wear and tear and the roads. Since they don't pay taxes they don't pay for the maintenance of the roads they use. Throughout LA and NY the roads are in absolute shambles and the more cars on the road the worse things will get. More money is needed to fund the maintenance of roads in big cities nation wide. Many in NY, where I live are downright atrocious, 50th avenue in Queens seems like they haven't been paved in 50 years. Now I'm not saying that illegals are to blame for these conditions but they do contribute to them.

[Osman Ghazi]

but timbaly, if you simply mad all the illegal immigrants american citizens, then they would pay taxes that would be used for road maintenance. Kicking them out is entirely impossible and if you simply make them stay as illegal immigrants, you cant solve the problem and it simply goes back to square one.

[timbaly]

The whole issue is confusing, I'm not sure on what to think. The best idea is probaly to give them limited legality. Like a temporary workers card, it would make them temporary legal and would grant them certain protections under the law, like minimum wage. This would also have to guarantee that they would not be deported while applying for their legality in what ever form it is given in.

[Al Creed]

Can someone remove that "Mexifornian" Liscence crap? It serves no purpose in this thread, and is greatly disturbing.

[FatFreeMilk]

Hey I saw that plate at the white aryan resistance (WAR) website. I went there to satisfy my curiosity on some subjects but anyways...

I was just wondering what everybody thinks about the bill that that el pendejo de Bush is trying to pass about illegal (mexican) immigrants getting permits to live here as long as they have work already waiting for them. If there's already a thread about this, my bad.

It seems like indentured slavery. Once they get here, are they aloud to leave the job that got them here in the first palce? Will they be forced to work for whatever el jefe is willing to pay them? etc.

[jermicide]

He is trying to get the Mexican vote.

[I_HATE_COMMIES]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2004, 05:09 AM
Think about it, the illegal immigrants are the backbone of the californian economy. If we deport them, then their economy will crumble. Who would work for minimum wage for hard work? Illegal immigrants.
jesus christ there not, the cali economy has not depended on immigriants for years, farming is maybe 10%-15% of cali's total economy tops.

plus props to rightside for showing the truth w/ illegals getting drivers liscences. plus any of you that are complaining about illegals in the cali and the southwest actually from this area? cuz ur prob. just *****in about somethin that u know nothin about

[Che Matador]

Originally posted by timbaly+Jan 11 2004, 06:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (timbaly @ Jan 11 2004, 06:19 PM)
[email protected] 9 2004, 01:15 PM

Illegal Aliens can not be allowed to have state health care and drivers liscences since they are getting these services without paying any taxes to support them.
For health care that is true, but the drivers license issue is completely different and has nothing to do with taxes. A valid license will enable you to register to vote. A right reserved for citizens. On top of that driving is a privilage not a right. As such those who are here illegally should not be rewarded with such a privilage.


I should have elaborated on the drivers licences, since they are allowed to have licenses they will get cars and drive them, which creates wear and tear and the roads. Since they don&#39;t pay taxes they don&#39;t pay for the maintenance of the roads they use. Throughout LA and NY the roads are in absolute shambles and the more cars on the road the worse things will get. More money is needed to fund the maintenance of roads in big cities nation wide. Many in NY, where I live are downright atrocious, 50th avenue in Queens seems like they haven&#39;t been paved in 50 years. Now I&#39;m not saying that illegals are to blame for these conditions but they do contribute to them. [/b]
what are you talking about, how do you know that illigal aliens dont pay taxes??????


for your information they do, i believe the one of the things that you must prove in order to get your resident (green) card, is prove that you have paided taxes since you have moved in the United States

[Valishin]

So basically what Arnold is saying is that he wants to save money by treating illegal immigrants as sub-human.
That is not what he is saying. He wants them treated as the criminals that they are.
1. Is it or is it not a crime to come into the country without authorization unless you are a citizen.
2. Is it also not a crime to be employeed inside the country without proper authorization unless you are a citizen.
3. And for some of them, is it not a crime as well to provide false documention to accomplish either of the two above mentioned crimes.

Now I am not saying people should be treated badily because they are of any specific race, creed, color, or national origin. But criminals are criminals and should be treated as such. Those who come to the US legally and work within the system of laws are more than welcome and most of us welcome them with open arms.


if you simply mad all the illegal immigrants american citizens
And that sends what message to other criminals?



It seems like indentured slavery. Once they get here, are they aloud to leave the job that got them here in the first palce? Will they be forced to work for whatever el jefe is willing to pay them? etc.
That will likely work just like the work visa program. If you loose your job you have a certain amount of time, and it isn&#39;t very long, to get another job with a company that will sponsor you.



what are you talking about, how do you know that illigal aliens dont pay taxes??????
for your information they do, i believe the one of the things that you must prove in order to get your resident (green) card, is prove that you have paided taxes since you have moved in the United StatesThat is for legal aliens who are on work visas. An illegal would have to admit to a crime to claim he paid taxes previously.

[erebus]

Hitman47: I was at city hall that day, me being the son of current illegal immigrants. My stance is that everybody has the right to live in peace. If any of you have ever been to Mexico, that isn&#39;t the case. I am of Chipas dicendence, which as you know, is currently undergoing a revolution. The world shouldn&#39;t be divided, these are just rules some sucker made up one day. That&#39;s all i can say.