Is the new Pope a liberation theologist

[Astarte]

Is Francis I a liberation theologist? I never heard of him before today so I need to read up on him, but this is from Wikipedia:


In 2009, Bergolio said that extreme poverty and the "unjust economic structures that give rise to great inequalities" are violations of human rights and that social debt is "immoral, unjust and illegitimate."[23] During a 48-hour public servant strike in Buenos Aires, Argentina, Bergoglio observed the differences between, "poor people who are persecuted for demanding work, and rich people who are applauded for fleeing from justice"[24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis#Poverty_and_class_equality

[Rurkel]

Nope, he isn't. Just very slightly more "think of the pooooor a bit" guy then his predecessor.

[Sasha]

No, apperently he is very conservative, anti-gay and anti-choice. He actively worked against liberation theologists who wanted to overthrow the junta. But yes, as a Jesuit he is anti-capitalist of some sorts which might be a slight improvement in a lesser evil kind of way.

[Astarte]

No, apperently he is very conservative, anti-gay and anti-choice. He actively worked against liberation theologists who wanted to overthrow the junta. But yes, as a Jesuit he is anti-capitalist of some sorts which might be a slight improvement in a lesser evil kind of way.

Not sure how many liberation theologists there were out of Catholicism that were not anti-gay and anti-choice - liberation theology is primarily a Latin-American formation of Catholicism, it would be hard to imagine too many of them being pro-gay or pro-choice. Identity politics aside, in this epoch, being anti-capitalist can really only lead to one conclusion, more or less by default it means being in favor of the socialization of the means of production. I somehow doubt he is an anti-capitalist of the pro-feudal variety.

[l'Enfermé]

Allegedly he helped the Argentine military dictatorship murder liberation theologists during the dirty war(i read on wikipedia, which is the most accurate source on the internet - true story)

[Paul Pott]

no.

[brigadista]

hes a jesuit

[Regicollis]

He seems like a lesser evil.

He might be some sort of a 'hat lady' in his views on poverty but at least he acknowledges that poverty is a problem. I hope he will do more about his views on social justice than about his reactionary views on abortion, homosexuality etc.

[Paul Pott]

I don't think he himself is a "lesser evil" but if he keeps up those kinds of positions during his time as Pope that could lend currency to modern liberation theology movements in Latin America.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Not sure how many liberation theologists there were out of Catholicism that were not anti-gay and anti-choice - liberation theology is primarily a Latin-American formation of Catholicism, it would be hard to imagine too many of them being pro-gay or pro-choice. Identity politics aside, in this epoch, being anti-capitalist can really only lead to one conclusion, more or less by default it means being in favor of the socialization of the means of production. I somehow doubt he is an anti-capitalist of the pro-feudal variety.

Anti-capitalism can "only lead to one conclusion" if the person making the conclusion is consistent, clear-headed, and a materialist; qualities the Catholic clergy is not really known for. I expect nothing more than some hair-brained corporatist idea, warmed up and served with a side of rancid "left-wing" rhetoric. And what you dismiss as "identity politics" is the issue of Catholic support for bestial persecution and destruction of anyone their narrow mediaeval worldview disapproves of.

[Lokomotive293]

There's a lot more to liberation theology than "Oh no, we need to take better care of the poor, because otherwise, they're going to be coming after us." Also, the guy was a supporter of the Argentinian military dictatorship.

[brigadista]

there will NEVER be a liberation theologian in the vatican as a cardinal let alone a pope- vatican city is a very wealthy state and only the most conservative will be given positions within it.

[GerrardWinstanley]

He seems like a lesser evil.

He might be some sort of a 'hat lady' in his views on poverty but at least he acknowledges that poverty is a problem. I hope he will do more about his views on social justice than about his reactionary views on abortion, homosexuality etc.They're just words tbh. Pope Benedict XVI was also a critic of neoliberalism. The Muslim Brotherhood preach heavily on social justice and poverty (despite their austere economic policy that defers redistributive efforts to the voluntary sector).

Also it may interest some here to know Bergoglio was something of a de facto opposition figure to the Kirchner administration if this cable (http://wikileaks.org/cable/2007/10/07BUENOSAIRES2033.html) is anything to go by.

[Comrade Alex]

Personaly I think its to early to tell
In the past the Vatican hasnt been to kind to liberation theologists
But they were Europeans and now with a new pope from the American continent god knows what
Just a waiting game

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Catholics all over the world rail against poverty, it's a vestige of the Church's origins and is generally little more than words. Blubbering about inequality while your fat ass sits on a golden throne is pretty funny though.

[Zostrianos]

A Jesuit is he? Those same Jesuits whose founder (a Saint no less) created the Goa inquisition to exploit and brutalize non-Christians and spread terror and devastation wherever they went?

While its ostensible aim was to preserve the Catholic faith, the Inquisition was used against Indian Catholics and Hindus and also against Portuguese settlers from Europe (mostly New Christians and Jewish but also Old Christians) as an instrument of social control, as well as a method of confiscating property and enriching the Inquisitors.
In 1567, the campaign of destroying temples in Bardez met with success. At the end of it 300 Hindu temples were destroyed. Enacting laws, prohibition was laid from 4 December 1567 on rituals of Hindu marriages, sacred thread wearing and cremation. All the persons above 15 years of age were compelled to listen to Christian preaching, failing which they were punished. In 1583 Hindu temples at Assolna and Cuncolim were destroyed through army action

However, many Goan Catholics were tenaciously attached to some of their old Hindu customs. Those who refused to give up their ancient Hindu practices were declared apostates and heretics and condemned to death.

In 1620, an order was passed to prohibit the Hindus from performing their marriage rituals.
An order was issued in June 1684 for suppressing the Konkani language and making it compulsory to speak the Portuguese language. The law provided for dealing toughly with anyone using the local language. Following that law all the non-Christian cultural symbols and the books written in local languages were sought to be destroyed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition

[Orange Juche]

Allegedly he helped the Argentine military dictatorship murder liberation theologists during the dirty war(i read on wikipedia, which is the most accurate source on the internet - true story)

He was accused of this legally when and where very little information can be used to prop such allegations. Whether he did this - it hasn't been proven in a court, it may or may not have happened, but it's flimsy to assume so - at best.

[Orange Juche]

Is Francis I a liberation theologist? I never heard of him before today so I need to read up on him, but this is from Wikipedia:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis#Poverty_and_class_equality

I think what he did as a servant of the Church versus what he will do as its leader may very well differ in some areas (maybe not vastly, but to some degree) and it's more we'll really have to wait and see.

[Nevsky]

He made a rather modest impression on his first public appearance as pope. He didn't carry a massive golden cross around his neck and seems to take christianity seriously. I don't think that he's a liberation theologist, though, he's more of a social conservative but more or less honest and ascetic christian (thus named after Francis of Assisi). Such a pope could maybe restore some of the church's credibility. However, we'll have to see if he really deserves the title "bishop of the poor", that will depend on his actions.

[RedHal]

The Catholic church knows that there will be serious social unrests as the economy deteriorates throughout the world. They have no choice but to choose a pope who has some sense of the inequality that exists, but harshly anti-Liberation Theology. This is equivalent to the bourgeoisie choosing social democrats so the masses will not venture towards revolutionary politics.

[hatzel]

A Jesuit is he? Those same Jesuits whose founder (a Saint no less) created the Goa inquisition to exploit and brutalize non-Christians and spread terror and devastation wherever they went?

In the interests of accuracy it's probably worth mentioning that Xavier (of the seven founders of the Society of Jesuits he's the one who best fits the bill here, so I assume that's who you're referring to) didn't himself 'create' the Inquisition, not least because he had been dead for almost a decade before the Inquisition was actually established in Goa. Yes, he called for one, but he didn't actually bring it to fruition or anything of the sort, nor would he have had the authority to. Even if he did, though, I don't feel it's particularly useful to judge a new Pope (or anybody else, for that matter) by weakly appealing to what somebody in their movement said or did 500 years ago. There could be a criticism of the current state of the Jesuits (whatever that may be), a critique of Pope Francis himself and his various actions and statements, and both would be far more relevant and enlightening in this case. I mean I could say 'oh, you're a unitarian? But that's a protestant thing and haven't you read Luther's texts? Some are awfully narrow-minded, you must be a horrible person,' but what would be the point of that? It wouldn't really reveal anything of contemporary significance...

[RedHal]

Watch today's Democracy Now!, they did a whole show on the new Pope, and one segment they look at his involvement in Argentina's military dictatorship "Dirty War". He is accused, by two Liberation Theologists priests, of handing them over to the military to be imprisoned and tortured. One of the liberation theologists priests believes Pope Francis of actually being present during his torture! So this new Pope Francis is very much against Libeation Theology. They call him a populist conservative.

[Pretty Flaco]

Pope Franky Baby was a marxist geurrilla that fought alongside his close friend Che Guevara.

[rylasasin]

As if the leader of what is the largest and most reactionary personality cult in the world could ever be anything close to revolutionary. :lol:

[homegrown terror]

calling ANY pope an ally of ours is like calling frank sinatra a buffalo performing shakespeare in a tutu: it's ridiculous enough to be considered insulting to our sensibilities.

[Brutus]

Considering any cleric a comrade of ours is ridiculous.

[human strike]

If he were a liberation theologian he wouldn't be Pope.

Does anyone know if that quote that's being going around online where he says that women are incapable of being political leaders is accurate? I mean, I know he's the Pope so obviously he's a misogynist, it's just someone told me it wasn't a genuine quote.

[Crux]

In Cardinal terms he was a "centrist", so yeah in the rest of the world he would be considered pretty far right.

[Turinbaar]

This story has just come out about accusations of the new Pope's complicity with the Videla regime during the Dirty War.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21802684

[Orange Juche]

Considering any cleric a comrade of ours is ridiculous.

Seriously? I mean... seriously?

You realize that there have been Priests historically involved in the left, like the one who wrote the IWW Preamble... right?

It's people with your black and white exclusionary politics that are seriously hurting the left.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Seriously? I mean... seriously?

You realize that there have been Priests historically involved in the left, like the one who wrote the IWW Preamble... right?

It's people with your black and white exclusionary politics that are seriously hurting the left.

Hagery (1) was suspended by the Church, so his status as a "priest" is contentious; and (2) demonstrated horrible confusion, stemming from his previous ecclesiastical status, in his theoretical work.

Priests and other clergy are members of reactionary and semifeudal organisations, opposed even to bourgeois progressivism, let alone socialist one. And their doctrines are in direct opposition to both revolutionary struggle and a materialist analysis of the world.

It is shameful that so many comrades, most of them outside this site, are willing to sing the praises of any prelate that can string together a few social-paternalistic cliches about the poor.

[Orange Juche]

It is shameful that so many comrades, most of them outside this site, are willing to sing the praises of any prelate that can string together a few social-paternalistic cliches about the poor.

I think it's unfortunate how things have turned into "who can I exclude and deem unworthy of being a comrade", particularly in cases like this, based on blanket generalizations and assumptions.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

I think it's unfortunate how things have turned into "who can I exclude and deem unworthy of being a comrade", particularly in cases like this, based on blanket generalizations and assumptions.

If you want to criticise my posts, by all means, do so! But the quoted post is not criticism; at best, it includes vague allusions to something I did wrong.