Slavery-Feudalism-Capitalism-Socialism-Capitalism

[Manulearning]

It might not look like an intelligent question to some but i was just curious to know that why did history put a reverse gear ?
I mean ok, one answer could be that there were mistake made by communist parties which resulted in bourgeois elements(backward forces) gaining power and turning it all back but were not there strong feudal forces n France after French Revolution ?

Could it be that as revolution for socialism was first conscious revolution, so that is why this new scenario ?

I hope you can get my question......

Thanks

[tuwix]

It is not as simple as putting a reverse gear. The humanity has started from communism (primitive one) developing a property as it described in Engel's “The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State”. The Plato first started to see negaive effects of private property and urged to abolish it in very utopian way. Marx has made the science of that.

But ultimately, I believe, the humanity's destiny is communism. Capitalism isn't sustainable and technological development strives toward circmumstances when very little physical and unpleasant job will be needed. And there are conditions to introduce communism.

[RedMaterialist]

It might not look like an intelligent question to some but i was just curious to know that why did history put a reverse gear ?
I mean ok, one answer could be that there were mistake made by communist parties which resulted in bourgeois elements(backward forces) gaining power and turning it all back but were not there strong feudal forces n France after French Revolution ?

Could it be that as revolution for socialism was first conscious revolution, so that is why this new scenario ?

I hope you can get my question......

Thanks

I would say that history doesn't proceed smoothly. There is progression then regression. For instance there are still examples of slavery as an economic category even today, although not officially sanctioned. Feudalism existed officially in Russia and parts of Eastern Europe into the 20th century. Some people argue that Japan was a feudal economy into mid 20th century.

I think it was Lenin who talked about the unevenness of development...I can't recall the quote right now.

Russia and China both went through a rapid socialist revolutionary development. Now there is a regression back into a semi-capitalist, semi-socialist stage. History seems to lurch back and forth, left and right, maybe even up and down. But ultimately, it is progressive. Who can imagine permanently going back to the slavery of the southern U.S., or the feudalism of medieval Europe?

[Blake's Baby]

Because what really happened was Slavery-Feudalism-Capitalism-Capitalism with a different coloured flag that some people think is 'Socialism'-Capitalism with the original flag but no king and really big army.

It's all been 'capitalism' since about 1870.

[Manulearning]

Actually i asked that question as some trotskyist maintain - that it was a post-capitalist society and not socialism. If it was socialism it would not have gone backward especially when there is accompnying world revolution. I hope i got that right.....
I think i ment this only - Because what really happened was Slavery-Feudalism-Capitalism-Capitalism with a different coloured flag that some people think is 'Socialism'-Capitalism with the original flag but no king and really big army.

It's all been 'capitalism' since about 1870.

For instance there are still examples of slavery as an economic category even today, although not officially sanctioned. Feudalism existed officially in Russia and parts of Eastern Europe into the 20th century. Some people argue that Japan was a feudal economy into mid 20th century.

Yes there are traces in Pakistan, India etc. but i dont think there is example of going back after reaching a higher stage....In that sense this is impossible -
Who can imagine permanently going back to the slavery of the southern U.S., or the feudalism of medieval Europe?

People's democratic consciousness won't allow this....

[Astarte]

It might not look like an intelligent question to some but i was just curious to know that why did history put a reverse gear ?
I mean ok, one answer could be that there were mistake made by communist parties which resulted in bourgeois elements(backward forces) gaining power and turning it all back but were not there strong feudal forces n France after French Revolution ?

Could it be that as revolution for socialism was first conscious revolution, so that is why this new scenario ?

I hope you can get my question......

Thanks

History moves in a kind of "combined and uneven development" as Trotsky called it. You mention that after the French Revolution there were still feudal elements, and this is true - that is why there was the Bourbon Restoration - which restored the Monarchy in the early 19th century. Likewise, after Cromwell defeated Charles I, England also could not totally shake off feudal relations and as is evident, still has some at least heavy feudal symbolism in its political superstructure. A part of combined and uneven development are false starts, abortions, miscarriages and set backs of social revolutions - that is, when revolutions seek to change the basis of society; i.e. the economic core, they are often met with much opposition which can set them back for whole historical periods. Whatever one thinks of the USSR in terms of its economic mode, I think it is clear that it was over-all a symptom of the decline of the capitalist epoch, even if sooner or later the whole thing ended in capitalist restoration - again though, this is not without historical precedent and is really not that exceptional in terms of the histories of social revolutions.

[Lokomotive293]

It might not look like an intelligent question to some but i was just curious to know that why did history put a reverse gear ?
I mean ok, one answer could be that there were mistake made by communist parties which resulted in bourgeois elements(backward forces) gaining power and turning it all back but were not there strong feudal forces n France after French Revolution ?

Could it be that as revolution for socialism was first conscious revolution, so that is why this new scenario ?

I hope you can get my question......

Thanks

It's because all history is the result of class struggles, and class struggle is not like a straight line constantly moving upwards, it's, well, a struggle where you gain and lose. Of course, as a general tendency, history is always progressive, but that's just looking at it on the very macro-level. Anything else would be disregarding dialectics.
The change from feudalism to capitalism was a long struggle as well, and long before the French Revolution there were many, though of course smaller, attempts that went wrong. So I wouldn't really say that's anything new.

[Manulearning]

Thanks to all for replying, i think i got my answer.....

There can be two explanations -

1. It never was Socialism as Mr.Blake points out. Or

2.It is just another example of progression/regression, a dialectical movement as has been the case always. Many wars against till feudalism also stand in the same context before its "final" overthrow at French Revolution.( and attempts to restore it like Astarte points out)

Thanks all :)

[CyM]

The Soviet Union was a symptom of a world in transition to socialism. It was not, and could not, become socialist, without the entire world economy joining. When the revolutions elsewhere failed, and the isolated example of workers' power degenerated, with a bureaucracy usurping political power, and eventually fell, with the economy being privatized and capitalism being reinstated.

It is also true that socialism is the first system that has to be consciously built, because unlike capitalism, its whole purpose is the conscious planning of the entire wealth of humanity. This makes the defeats even more damaging during the transition, because they lead to the blunting of consciousness as the masses turn away from grand ideas and focus on individual survival.

That being said, when all is said and done, a century of stalemate and regression won't even be remembered by our grandchildren.