Egypt: The self-management of Port Said and the workers' struggles

[bricolage]

This is very interesting but I notice that it was written on the Feburary 27th and put up last Tuesday, does anyone know what things are like since? I have to say I am not very good at keeping up with the ever-changing situation in Egypt.


An unprecedented situation is taking place in the city of Port Said - complete self-management, a rejection of everything that authority represents. It is a situation that the main actors in the Egyptian struggle at this time - the workers - are trying to reproduce in other cities too.
http://www.anarkismo.net/article/25022

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Ok, but this does not change the political situation in the least that the majority of Egyptian people stand behind bourgeois Islamism.

[bricolage]

ummm, this is the 'political situation': Civil disobedience: the city is mainly characterized by its total rejection of Morsi's government in all its forms. This translates into getting rid of the police, the rejection of work and the government education system.

I mean if it's happening as radically as this article makes out that is, I'm trying to work out how much of it is exaggeration and whether things have changed since it was written.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

ummm, this is the 'political situation': Civil disobedience: the city is mainly characterized by its total rejection of Morsi's government in all its forms. This translates into getting rid of the police, the rejection of work and the government education system.

I mean if it's happening as radically as this article makes out that is, I'm trying to work out how much of it is exaggeration and whether things have changed since it was written.

What? Where is the workers' vanguard party in the polls? It doesn't exist. There is the Trotskyist-Communist "identity" SP.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

What? Where is the workers' vanguard party in the polls? It doesn't exist. There is the Trotskyist-Communist "identity" SP.

Are you saying polls are relevant and that electoralism should be pursued, or what?

[Le Socialiste]

Ok, but this does not change the political situation in the least that the majority of Egyptian people stand behind bourgeois Islamism.

Take into account that less than half (43.4%) of the voting-age population voted in the elections, and that the race itself was won by a close margin (51.7% and 48.3%, respectively). Couple that with the rapidity with which Morsi and the MB's legitimacy has deteriorated over the last several months and you can plainly see that the majority of Egyptians have yet to be won over to political Islam. The fact that an impressive number of former Morsi supporters are now renouncing their support for his presidency should be noted, too.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Take into account that less than half (43.4%) of the voting-age population voted in the elections, and that the race itself was won by a close margin (51.7% and 48.3%, respectively). Couple that with the rapidity with which Morsi and the MB's legitimacy has deteriorated over the last several months and you can plainly see that the majority of Egyptians have yet to be won over to political Islam. The fact that an impressive number of former Morsi supporters are now renouncing their support for his presidency should be noted, too.

Yeah, that's horrible. Yet another sign that there is no mass politicization of the Egyptian youth. No worker political alternative has been built up which can legitimately take power on a national level.

[hatzel]

Yeah, that's horrible. Yet another sign that there is no mass politicization of the Egyptian youth.

Dude you're posting in a thread about real-life people actually telling the state to fuck off and actively fighting for power in a city where there have been numerous anti-government riots, what the hell are you even talking about? :confused:

[AConfusedSocialDemocrat]

Ok, but this does not change the political situation in the least that the majority of Egyptian people stand behind bourgeois Islamism.

What's the slogan of the Egyptian Trotskyists, "sometimes with Islamism, never with the state", Islam (as with any religion) has great revolutionary, and unifying, potential.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The line of the Revolutionary Socialists-opportunistically supporting the MB and Morsi and even advising people to vote for Morsi, was a disaster. They backed away from this mistake with no apologies or explanations."Sometimes with Islamism, never with the state"is an insane counter productive slogan. It mirrors the opportunism of their parent organisation, the now thankfully imploding British SWP.

Islamists would have no hesitation in torturing and killing socialists at the first opportune moment. The Ikwan actually has done this in an incident about 3 months ago in Cairo.

There are other, healthier Trotskyists in Egypt today.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Dude you're posting in a thread about real-life people actually telling the state to fuck off and actively fighting for power in a city where there have been numerous anti-government riots, what the hell are you even talking about? :confused:

'Rebellion' does not equal Revolution. It is quite telling what the class consciousness of the Egyptian people is if you look at the Parliamentary election results. The state of the Left in Egypt is a mess as well. You think you can make a genuine Proletarian Revolution without the masses of Workers sympathizing with Socialist Parties? Without first educating and through this convincing themselves of Socialism?

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

'Rebellion' does not equal Revolution. It is quite telling what the class consciousness of the Egyptian people is if you look at the Parliamentary election results. The state of the Left in Egypt is a mess as well. You think you can make a genuine Proletarian Revolution without the masses of Workers sympathizing with Socialist Parties? Without first educating and through this convincing themselves of Socialism?


"Marxism comprises many principles, but in the final analysis they can all be brought back to a single sentence: it is right to rebel against the reactionaries." ~Mao Zedong

The very fact that they are rejecting the state is a display of greater class consciousness than any result of a poll could indicate. Rejecting bourgeois "politics" is probably the best thing for the Egyptian people. Sure, it might not yet be a socialist revolution, but it can be, and that is the point.

However I personally see the turn out rate as troubling, it should have been much lower.

[bcbm]

'Rebellion' does not equal Revolution. It is quite telling what the class consciousness of the Egyptian people is if you look at the Parliamentary election results.

nevermind the massive amount of labor unrest, general strikes, workers rioting and organizing, etc that preceding even getting elections:rolleyes:


The state of the Left in Egypt is a mess as well. You think you can make a genuine Proletarian Revolution without the masses of Workers sympathizing with Socialist Parties? Without first educating and through this convincing themselves of Socialism?

yes

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

~Mao Zedong

The very fact that they are rejecting the state is a display of greater class consciousness than any result of a poll could indicate. Rejecting bourgeois "politics" is probably the best thing for the Egyptian people. Sure, it might not yet be a socialist revolution, but it can be, and that is the point.

However I personally see the turn out rate as troubling, it should have been much lower.

I never said this that I see this as a bad development. Mass rebellion of the working class is of course very interesting, but has nothing to say about the prospects of a political change in the country so long no 'vanguard' or mass working class party exists.

[LOLseph Stalin]

If this is indeed a legit socialist movement it's going to be suppressed by the Islamists. They, like any other religious fundies, despise socialism.