There is a lot I don't understand

[Ahura Mazda]

I don't understand how you think this system can work. What I know of communism seems remarkably naive, assuming people will work for the good of everyone else, without incentive. This is my first post on che-lives, and I haven't read much outside of this forum in the past few minutes, but I seriously doubt what I read will shed any light on what I don't know about communism without making it seem just as ridiculous.

[Pete]

Well I suggest you start by reading some of the things in the archive here (that is, if they still exist) and reading about what is going on in capitalism, and ask your self this: is this really the best we can do?

Welcome to the forums. I didn't give any direct definition of 'communism' as their are probaly atleast a dozen different 'sects' supported by the various memebers here. Atleast a dozen.

-Pete

[Scottish_Militant]

Comrade,

why not check out the Marxism FAQ on YFIS, it deals with almost every question a revolutionary will be asked

http://www.newyouth.com/archives/theory/marxismfaq.asp

[Ahura Mazda]

I refuse to read something I cannot respond to in its own thread. Why do you even let non-commies sign up, if you allow them to exist only in a single forum? Your discussions on the rest of the forum must really suck, as it is all one-sided.

"Capitalists suck"
"yep"
"'tis true, wise one"
"indeed"
"correct"

and so goes a classic conversation here, eh?

_______________

And revolutionary: I tried to read it, but it is so thick with bs that it hurts my head to read a paragraph in that thing. It assumes automatically that all suffering stems from class warfare, when I could tell you all suffering comes from being denied something, whether you really deserve it or not. To eliminate suffering is impossible; all you can do is allow everyone to decide for themselves what is best for themselves that doesn't involve pushing around someone else and leave it at that.

[Pete]

Nah, you should go look at them. Anything you want you can copy the sections and link to those threads and create one here all you want. As for why nonleftists sign up, ask yourself, as I cannot speak for you.

[Anti-Fascist]

Originally posted by Ahura [email protected] 4 2004, 12:16 AM
I refuse to read something I cannot respond to in its own thread. Why do you even let non-commies sign up, if you allow them to exist only in a single forum? Your discussions on the rest of the forum must really suck, as it is all one-sided.

"Capitalists suck"
"yep"
"'tis true, wise one"
"indeed"
"correct"

and so goes a classic conversation here, eh?

_______________

And revolutionary: I tried to read it, but it is so thick with bs that it hurts my head to read a paragraph in that thing. It assumes automatically that all suffering stems from class warfare, when I could tell you all suffering comes from being denied something, whether you really deserve it or not. To eliminate suffering is impossible; all you can do is allow everyone to decide for themselves what is best for themselves that doesn't involve pushing around someone else and leave it at that.
Good point.
If you want to discuss Communism with less dogmatic Marxists,
visit http://www.politicsforum.org

[Pete]

Anti-Facist, what is your name their? Not Huzington.. is it Ixabert? (Just guessing)

[Bolshevika]

And revolutionary: I tried to read it, but it is so thick with bs

Hey! I agree with you!

Here's a better site on proletarian tasks and ideology http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/ and another http://www.rwor.org/a/ideology/mlm.htm (they have good explanations even though I disagree with some of their stuff)

[redstar2000]

What is Communism? (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=6362)

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Ahura Mazda]

This makes it a lot easier for future reference for me, however short-term that is:


I wrote this while the Che-Lives board was down...and because the question is constantly raised by people new to the board and to the left. I hope it will be useful.

=====================

Communism is a hypothetical social order in which there are no classes and consequently no state as an organ of class rule.

It is postulated that such a society will have little in the way of public authorities or "government" and that whatever is found to be useful will be "ultra-democratic" and rely heavily on internet referendums (direct democracy). These public authorities will almost exclusively be concerned with the large-scale co-ordination of production and distribution of goods and services, and most of their "decisions" are likely to be suggestive rather than compulsive.

There will be no formal "nation states" in a communist world, though many of the names may persist as geographic designations.

There will be no production of "commodities" -- goods and services produced for sale -- instead goods and services will be produced for use -- either by the producers themselves or freely given to those who will make good use of them.

There will be no "currency" as such; no money...though old currency units may be used for record-keeping purposes, they will have no independent utility.

Individual compensation will vary little, and that according to "need"...the ability to actually use what is appropriated from the public total.

People will have the freedom to gravitate to the "work" that they find most intrinsically rewarding for its own sake. But there will be considerable informal pressure to "work" at something useful. The stereotypical "lazy bum" will be an object of scorn and/or pity. Work that is so "bad" that no one wishes to do it will either be automated, shared out in some collective fashion so that no one has to do very much of it, or simply dispensed with altogether.

The social life of a communist society will be extraordinally libertarian; very few of the taboos and and even fewer of the regulations that presently exist will still survive. Religion, if it survives at all, will be in the nature of a hobby, without the power to influence people's lives in any significant way.

Prestige in a communist society will come from competence and reliability...the highest respect will go to those who've demonstrated their ability to perform especially useful work that many will want to emulate.

The most utterly detested crime in communist society will be the attempt to "hire" wage-labor for the purpose of producing a "commodity". This will be regarded in the same way that we currently regard human sacrifice or chattel slavery...as an unspeakable horror and an attempt to "bring back" an old and disgustingly inhumane social order, namely capitalism.

Thus, the hypothetical features of a communist society, as extrapolated from the ideas of Marx and Engels.

Since such a social order has never existed for any significant period of time, we presently have no way of "knowing" if it will actually "work". More importantly, it is really unknown what kinds of things must be done and must be avoided to successfully manage the transition from capitalism to communism...although there are many theories about this. It seems likely that there will be several centuries of "trial and error" before the human species manages this transition successfully.

:cool:

[synthesis]

Your discussions on the rest of the forum must really suck, as it is all one-sided.

"Capitalists suck"
"yep"
"'tis true, wise one"
"indeed"
"correct"

The Left is divided well enough* to have healthy debate without the uncontained presence of capitalists. We've got Stalinists, Trotskyists, Leninists, anarchists, democratic socialists, Maoists, market socialists, and others I'm missing. (Not to mention divisions on issues such as religion, homosexuality, and abortion.)

*too much

[A Pict]

Well, i think we are being a bit hard on the communists. It has worked (well, depending on how you define "worked". Some of the individuals belonging managed to survive long enough to procreate).





The Feudal Manor.



The Lord is the State (refer- Louis 16 " i am the state [biyatches!]")

Everything is held in Common, by the state.

Everything is produced for consumption.

Everything is distributed via Need.



So indeed, this is what your striving for. The dark ages is the epitome of your philosophy. You win your "revolution", and our children will plow with wood again.

[Yevgraf]

'A Pict',
You are a) extremely close-minded, b) blatantly ignorant about marxism/communism

These two things strongly suggest to me you are one of those people who have been brought up to hate and despise a certain idea/movement/group(in your case socialism/communism) to the extent that the merest thought of it sends you into a state of irrational fear and hatred.

You are, in essence, a bigot of the highest degree.

Your 'arguments' against marxism/communism are akin to that of someone who has read little if no original marxist/communist literature, but has sought to 'counter' arguments for socialism/communism, nevertheless. Thus confirming that hating socialism/communism is part of your identity, your upbringing, as opposed to being the result of some method of objective analysis.

[synthesis]

The Lord is the State (refer- Louis 16 " i am the state [biyatches!]")

LOL, watch von Mises here arrogantly try to assert his intellectualism and fail miserably. Louis the 16th didn't say that. You're thinking of Louis the 14th.

Your error lies in not in this relatively minor detail (although it helps to get one's shit straight when one is trying to look smart), but in your attempt to proclaim that feudalism is in any way similar to any form of socialism whatsoever when the two are contradictory both in theory and in practice.

Socialism: Women's rights, free education, free healthcare, proletarian and peasant domination over the bourgeoisie, public ownership of the means of production, abolition of religion, et cetera

Feudalism: Sexism, clearly defined class hierarchy, aristocratic domination over peasants and bourgeoisie, clerical rule, et cetera

Since you clearly know so little, perhaps you should adopt a less confrontational tone and actually try to learn something.