The Dark Knight Rises - Bourgeois Propaganda

[Nevsky]

When the latest Batman film by Christopher Nolan came out, a friend of mine invited me to see it in the cinema. I was never a fan of Nolan's Dark Knight movies but I went to see it in order to find out whether the hype was justified or not. The film's bombastic style again didn't convince me but there were a few scenes which stood out as particularly stupid to me.

After the villain Bane and his crew assaulted Wall Street, I already had a bad feeling about Nolan's reactionary tendencies. However, the movie reached its ridiculous climax when Bane established a caricature of proletarian dictatorship in Gotham City. Show trials, brutal jacobin violence against "civilized" Gotham inhabitants etc. were all meant to convince the audience that destroying the bourgeois democratic order leads into "stalinism".

On the other side we have Bruce Wayne/Batman, the noble Knight who is a turbo-capitalist himself but a "good guy" who fights for justice. The Batman character therefore became the epitome of the capitalist charity mentality.

I found a video on Youtube were Slavoj Zizek makes the same point about TDKR. It's called "Slavoj Zizek on The Dark Knight Rises, Marijuana, Consumerism and Love". Someone in the comment section wrote that Nolan's Batman movies are the "mythology of bourgeois paranoia". Would you agree?

[Narcissus]

Totally agree. Any alternative to capitalism MUST be kleptocratic and authoritarian right? Well fatcatman thinks so.

[Hexen]

Of course it's bourgeois propaganda that's what Hollywood is, it's a mouthpiece for capitalist society.

[Turinbaar]

I began laughing out loud in the theatre at the climactic battle, which consists of Batman leading an army of NYPD to attack Bain and his gang, who have literally occupied Wall Street.

[KurtFF8]

It's not just "bourgeois propaganda" but I would argue that it's reactionary (as I did on my website (http://leftfilmreview.net/2012/07/20/the-dark-knight-rises-2012/))

[bcbm]

good flick, though

[KurtFF8]

Absolutely, although I think that the 2nd in the series is far better.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

I liked the first one best.

[o well this is ok I guess]

good flick, though Dark Knight was miles better.

[Let's Get Free]

I think it projects a completely hopeless message about the future of humanity and the inability of ‘the people’ to govern themselves more than anything

[bcbm]

I think it projects a completely hopeless message about the future of humanity and the inability of ‘the people’ to govern themselves more than anything

i think thats reading a bit much into it

[LOLseph Stalin]

Honestly, I never even thought of it this way. I generally just watch movies for entertainment so don't bother analyzing them, but now that I saw this it does seem very much so that what Bane did almost does resemble a communist revolution. Of course he's portrayed as the villain though so anything done by him must be tyrannical, right? :rolleyes:

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Every single film made by Hollywood reflects bourgeois ideology. Singling individual films out is pointless.

[Comrade Samuel]

I had those exact thought when I saw the film as well, I called attention to it on a thread just after it was released in July but at the time everybody seemed to be on a different page entirely.

Regardless of Nolan's idiotic views and thinnly veiled indoctrination attempts I just can't see myself hating batman, muchless for political reasons.

[KurtFF8]

i think thats reading a bit much into it

How so? I thought this message was actually quite explicit compared to most major productions that have the political messages a bit less in your face (take recent exceptions like Avatar and Hunger Games perhaps)


Every single film made by Hollywood reflects bourgeois ideology. Singling individual films out is pointless.

I don't think that's necessarily true. We can find plenty of counter-examples (Reds being an obvious one that comes to mind)

[bcbm]

I just can't see myself hating batman, muchless for political reasons.

i think its easy, hes a billionaire playboy wanna be cop


How so? I thought this message was actually quite explicit compared to most major productions that have the political messages a bit less in your face

i think they were using some imagery from the news to make the movie seem more timely and maybe spark some conversations like these to get more press. i mean maybe nolan is a reactionary and hates occupy, i wouldnt be surprised, but the movie is about batman finding himself and bane being a bad bad dude, not 'the people being unable to govern themselves' or whatever

[Hexen]

I don't think that's necessarily true. We can find plenty of counter-examples (Reds being an obvious one that comes to mind)

I think you haven't looked into those films much closer enough since they also have bourgeois ideology slipped in there as well. Of course like Danielle Ni Dhighe said, singling out films is pointless...

Point is, what's the last time did you ever see a film made by Hollywood that supported workers struggle/strikes/revolutions (class struggle), wasn't racist/sexist/etc less white (usually male) centered, and also portrayed a socialist/communist society accurately without demonizing it by having it looking look like a hive mind nor doesn't give the "Human Nature" (read: biotruth) argument messages at the end as the "morality of the story"? The answer is none and they always been like that and always will be.

Of course try comparing a film made in the Soviet Union to Hollywood and you'll see a huge difference which also shows that the films are simply products of the societies superstructures.

[Jimmie Higgins]

i think they were using some imagery from the news to make the movie seem more timely and maybe spark some conversations like these to get more press. i mean maybe nolan is a reactionary and hates occupy, i wouldnt be surprised, but the movie is about batman finding himself and bane being a bad bad dude, not 'the people being unable to govern themselves' or whatever

I don't know much about Nolan, but my guess is that he actually considers himself a-political. He said in an interview I read regarding the domestic-digital spying in "The Dark Knight" and the "social crisis" in the lastes movie that he picks "hot button" things in society in order to heighten the drama. In other words his defense against both right and left critics was "hey, it's just storytelling exploitation". He could just be saying this, but I doubt it - I really think there's little difference between his Batman movies and any of the other super-hero movies except that he did his in the style of a modern Drama/Triller rather than in the style Blockbuster Action/Sci-Fi like the X-men or Spiderman or whatever. Using "real political fault lines" is part of the faux-realism aestetic of the movies.

One of the writers on the last movie, however, is a confirmed right-winger who wrote the plot for the narrative parts of a video game where the villian was the figurehead of the "99% Movment" and using people for dictatorial ends. Not to mention that many of the stories from the comics drawn on - and the movie titles reference - come from reactionary Batman comic writer Frank Miller.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Of course it's bourgeois propaganda that's what Hollywood is, it's a mouthpiece for capitalist society.Well I don't know, I think primarily movies are commodities so in one sense they are no more a mouthpiece than Pepsi. But of course since movies tell stories and often frame a picture of the world, ideological assumptions and propaganda also come into it. But if there was a huge worker's movement in the US, you'd see a lot more stories about working people and daily struggles most likely, just like when social expectations changed in the 1960s movies had to adapt and reflect some of the changes going on in regards to attitudes. Of course there's a limit and even in political times, more radical stories are going to have an uphill battle.

Even with the big expensive Hollywood movies, there's been a downplaying of US jingoism to a certain extent in recent years in order to not be totally tasteless for international consumption.

[Os Cangaceiros]

IIRC the guy who wrote the Dark Knight Rises also wrote COD Black Ops 2. I played through that game recently and what struck me about it was how much of a left-winger the main bad guy was (or at least that was the persona he adopted to gain followers). The game basically said that he and his terrorist group ("Cordis Die") gained support through people's resentment of income inequality. There was even a scene where he talked about how they were going to defeat the arrogant imperialist west or whatever.

Seems to be a theme that writer likes.

[TomHPMc]

Nolan's Batman is loaded with right-wing ideology (which is probably the best way to adapt a billionaire vigilante into a 'realistic' setting). Take 'The Dark Knight' for example. The antagonist is an anarchist (ie. an ideological enemy) and more importantly when drawing real-world parallels--a terrorist. Batman's response to this threat is bugging the entire city 'for their own safety'. In one scene he actually uses torture as an attempt to gain knowledge from the Joker.

Not to mention, earlier in the film, BM kidnaps a foreign citizen for questioning, CIA anyone?

It's important to note however that the film doesn't really support these tactics. During the surveillance scene Morgan Freeman's character even says "this is wrong". The torture doesn't even work, Rachel dies anyway.

Didn't really care for Rises as much. The motive of the villains is a total mess, probably because Nolan was hammering in politcal 'hot topics' where they don't fit. If Nolan had scrapped the awful twist at the end (which frankly reduces Bane to mere lackey) and stuck with the Nietzschean angle he gave Bane I would have like it a lot more than I did.


On a nerdy side note: Next Batman series better not start with his origin again, EVERYONE knows it and it limits the amount of stories you can tell (I want Hush).

[Red Commissar]

IIRC the guy who wrote the Dark Knight Rises also wrote COD Black Ops 2. I played through that game recently and what struck me about it was how much of a left-winger the main bad guy was (or at least that was the persona he adopted to gain followers). The game basically said that he and his terrorist group ("Cordis Die") gained support through people's resentment of income inequality. There was even a scene where he talked about how they were going to defeat the arrogant imperialist west or whatever.

Seems to be a theme that writer likes.

The Modern Warfare and Black Ops games both have (what I think at least) a very common theme in media, one of a charismatic populist that unites the frustrated masses into doing bad things or misleading them that way. More often than not the leader doesn't actually care about the message and is only pursuing a revenge plot or some hidden goal. In the case of DKR it was both.

Kind of a cynical outlook that those promising changes are actually just manipulating people to their own end, invoke Hitler for good measure :rolleyes:

I suppose this should not be surprising though considering Batman's whole premise as a costumed billionaire who fights crime. Depending on the writer of Batman he can either end up being a well-intentioned philanthropist or someone with a lot of unwarranted self-importance that the world doesn't appreciate, Nolan's Batman definitely takes more from the latter.

[Geiseric]

Robocop is an example of a hollywood style action movie that has left wing leanings by the end. Batman is the opposite, they create villains that you can't help but dislike due to them being more or less Terrorists...

[Rafiq]

Robocop is an example of a hollywood style action movie that has left wing leanings by the end. Batman is the opposite, they create villains that you can't help but dislike due to them being more or less Terrorists...

When I watched it, even with the "shock value" I still couldn't see how bane was a villian until it was revealed that, oh no, it was a conspiracy all along.

The problem with the film is that it does not attempt to portray a proletarian dictatorship, but attempts to replicate a french revolution in a society where the bourgeoisie already has political hegemony. In that sense it's just extremely unrealistic. Bane is an obvious robespierre. In THAT sense the film possesses anti semitic themes (anti semitic in the sense that there is a group *behind* mass movements, like the conspiracies about the french revolution). That is why the scenes made audiences uneasy; that's why it was so easy to antagonize the masses in the film. Oh well. I find it hard to take seriously a man who runs around on the sidewalk in a bat costume, which is why in the end I prefer marvel as they don't take themselves seriously.

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[KurtFF8]

Not to mention, earlier in the film, BM kidnaps a foreign citizen for questioning, CIA anyone?

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that one


It's important to note however that the film doesn't really support these tactics. During the surveillance scene Morgan Freeman's character even says "this is wrong". The torture doesn't even work, Rachel dies anyway.

Yes, but Freeman's character voices opposition to no avail. The message that comes through is "well we know this is an invasion of privacy and is wrong, but we must do it in this case because the threat to society is so great!"

It's almost even more problematic than overtly supporting those tactics in the abstract but rather the film was saying that there are "exceptional circumstances" (much like the 23rd hour before an attack scenario that was often quoted in the Bush years)


Didn't really care for Rises as much. The motive of the villains is a total mess, probably because Nolan was hammering in politcal 'hot topics' where they don't fit. If Nolan had scrapped the awful twist at the end (which frankly reduces Bane to mere lackey) and stuck with the Nietzschean angle he gave Bane I would have like it a lot more than I did.

Yeah I felt that the villains motives just didn't make any sense in the context of these pseudo-realistic takes on superheroes.

[SergeNubret]

I don't overthink movies, I watch and enjoy

[Taters]

SergeNubret, you just watch the pretty colors and moving pictures and don't pay attention to the overarching themes at all? Even the ones that are pretty obvious?

[bcbm]

SergeNubret, you just watch the pretty colors and moving pictures and don't pay attention to the overarching themes at all? Even the ones that are pretty obvious?

something wrong with that?

[Taters]

something wrong with that?

I suppose not. For me at least, that's half the fun of movies, though.