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Q
7th March 2013, 15:39
The current Tusc model has failed, argues Nick Wrack (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/952/tusc-lets-get-this-party-started) of the Independent Socialist Network - a constituent part of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition in the UK.

Some useful bit of critical self-reflection for all those involved I think.


The 62 votes obtained by the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition in the March 1 Eastleigh by-election should cause everyone to reflect. It is not just a matter for supporters of Tusc. It raises important questions for all who want an alternative to the anti-working class policies supported by all the established political parties.

I want to make it clear that what follows is not a criticism of the hard work that is put into Tusc election campaigns. I know that supporters in Eastleigh will have worked extremely hard over the two or three weeks of the campaign. Daz Procter, the Tusc candidate, is an elected member of the RMT national executive and was an excellent candidate. I am not attacking any one person or group. I am criticising the strategy that underpins Tusc’s electoral interventions.

In this article I argue that the current model is inadequate and ultimately counterproductive. All the hard work put in during elections produces smaller and smaller returns. Such a low vote leads to embarrassment and demoralisation, and reinforces the idea that the left is incapable of mounting any sort of serious electoral challenge. Getting such a low vote makes it harder to win the argument with those not yet convinced that something can be done.

That is not to say that a new left party would be immune from such poor results. That is part of the risk of standing in elections. But if there is a perspective for growth, for improvement and for building the project, such setbacks can be absorbed, the lessons learned and things can move on. When the low vote is set against a reluctance or refusal by some parts of Tusc to allow new forces to join and is combined with the absence of an individual membership structure, it can only convey the impression that, as presently constructed, Tusc is going nowhere.

It is true that Eastleigh was not favourable terrain. It is a Liberal Democrat stronghold - the Lib Dems held onto the seat notwithstanding the scandal surrounding Chris Huhne’s departure and the party’s involvement in the coalition government. But the model currently adopted by Tusc makes it almost impossible to obtain the best possible result, even in a more favourable constituency.

No organisation, whether it is Tusc or a new socialist party, can turn up two or three weeks before an election and expect to obtain anything but a derisory result. It will certainly not win the sort of vote that could be obtained if the whole of the preceding period has seen that organisation campaigning, agitating and arguing for its programme, involving itself in all aspects of working class struggle.

I have no doubt that members of the Socialist Party and the Socialist Workers Party are involved in all sorts of working class struggles. But they participate in those as SP or SWP activists with SP or SWP literature, promoting and recruiting to their own parties. This is indisputable. Their members justify this with various arguments that boil down essentially to the simple proposition that only their party has the answers.

There are consequences arising from that approach for any broader coalition or new party. It means that the work to build the bigger formation always takes second place. That is not to say that the SP or SWP do not put in time, effort and money into building Tusc. They do. But it is undermined by the fact that once an election is finished they will turn their attention once again to their own party-building, and the Tusc profile will be relegated until the next election. You cannot build a successful electoral coalition or a new party on that basis.

Begin the process

There is little point in those of us who want a party formation bemoaning the attitude of the SP or SWP. Their political priorities are their prerogative. We should continue to work with them where possible, but we should not allow their agenda to set ours.

Building a new socialist party would in fact strengthen the whole of the left by bringing together all those who want a party that challenges Labour from the left, but do not feel inclined to join any on offer at present. No-one should underestimate the difficulties. Over the last 20 years a large scrapyard has been filled with the wreckage of previous failed attempts - the Socialist Labour Party, Socialist Alliance, Scottish Socialist Party, Respect.

These projects have failed for a combination of reasons. First is the massive pull of Labour, which persuades lots of working class activists that there is no alternative. Labour must be supported to keep out the Tories. This is a political argument that must be confronted. Voting for the ‘lesser evil’ may keep out the Tories, but will not deliver any prospect of change that benefits Labour voters. Second is the background of 30 years of defeat for the working class in Britain and abroad and the retreat of socialist ideas.

But the more immediate cause of the failure has been down more to the sectarianism of the various socialist groups, who all think they know the path through the woods: a refusal to work together for the greater cause of building a viable party; a lack of democracy and the unaccountability of prominent leaders; a failure to understand that there is no easy way to build such a new party. It will take patience and hard work. All involved will have to have a sense of proportion and perspective. No party can be built without disagreement, argument and dissent. It will take time to establish its own inner life.

Notwithstanding all the obstacles, the objective need for a new party is there for everyone to see. Everything that working class people came to expect in the half-century following the end of World War II is being smashed to pieces - living standards, pensions, access to affordable homes, education and health. In short, the reforms of the welfare state are being wrenched away. And all the main political parties, including Labour, support this. Alongside this savagery comes attack after attack on the most vulnerable in society - the young, the old, the poor, the sick, the disabled, those out of work, those in overcrowded accommodation. All of this is prosecuted with the argument that there is no alternative; that the market dictates and that capitalism is the only possible way of organising the economy.

Socialists argue that there is an alternative. It is to eradicate capitalism and to construct a new society based on need, not profit. Here and now, resistance to austerity is vital, but it is only half of the answer. We need a political response to the economic and social attacks on us. The recent call for a People’s Assembly is to be welcomed, but there is a real danger that it simply becomes a way to drive the anti-austerity vote towards Labour at the next election.

What we need is a political party that not only seeks to resist the attacks now, but also argues for a change in the way that society is organised. Such a political party would have to seek support for its ideas within society. This means standing in elections must be a part of its work. Undoubtedly, the votes it received initially would be generally low. But, as its profile increased and its arguments and policies became better understood, it could begin to make headway. Particularly if Labour forms the government in 2015 and implements austerity policies, such a new party could make significant strides forward. But it is important to try to lay the basis for that now. That is why the self-imposed limitations to growth set by Tusc are disappointing.

There are many socialists active in the Labour Party who argue that it can be won to the ideas of socialism. Whilst I do not agree with them, I wish them well. Socialists inside and outside Labour should collaborate whenever possible on practical issues and to argue for socialist ideas.

The Labour Party has never been a socialist party, but rather an uncomfortable marriage of liberalism and socialism. Ultimately liberalism triumphed completely. But it retains its mass working class support and its trade union links. It is a capitalist party with a working class base and that base has to be won to the ideas of socialism. That is no easy task. And it certainly will not be accomplished in a short time. But the process has to begin.

Step forward

The Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition was an attempt to address some of these issues. It was formed as an electoral coalition to present an alternative at the ballot box. This, in my opinion, was a step in the right direction. The involvement of the RMT transport union in the coalition gave it a greater authority within the trade union movement and beyond.

It should be remembered that it has obtained some good results for a new formation - in 2012 it received 4,792 votes (4.7%) in the Liverpool mayoral election, over 10% in 14 local council elections and more than 5% in a further 39. These have been obtained with few resources and little name recognition, and indicate the possibilities of building an alternative on a much bigger scale.

However, the current model is preventing it from matching up to the possibilities. There is a problem in the fact that Tusc is a coalition created solely for the purpose of standing in elections. This means that it does not participate in its own name in any of the many working class struggles that are taking place in every town and city. It does not participate in the strikes and demonstrations against pension reforms or austerity generally, nor in the campaigns against the bedroom tax, against attacks on the disabled and a hundred other issues.

If Tusc were seen as a stepping stone or a transition towards a new party, then it would have some purpose. But it is increasingly obvious that this is not the case. There have been no developments in that direction. Individual supporters cannot join it. Supporting organisations cannot join it. This leaves the coalition comprising the RMT, the SWP, the SP and a small group of independent socialists organised in the Independent Socialist Network.

It means that the coalition can never significantly increase or expand. The Socialist Party has opposed the participation of Socialist Resistance on the national steering committee and suggested that it reapply when it has 1,000 members. There are no new partners on the horizon. Tusc is therefore condemned to remain at its present size. The consequence of this approach will be that it stagnates and ultimately goes the way of previous projects.

Tusc has no national apparatus and hence no national profile. Some comrades have complained about the lack of media coverage, but this is only to be expected. A small electoral organisation that does not even take itself seriously enough to appoint a press officer cannot really expect to be taken seriously by the media.

The only way that any new alternative organisation or party could force its way into the media is by developing a national profile. That would mean serious interventions in every national and local demonstration, strike, picket line, protest and meeting with leaflets, pamphlets and recruitment literature; a media strategy to promote spokespersons, putting out regular national and local press releases and a serious presence on social media. But primarily the media will only pay attention when this organisation achieves something or does something of significance. They are not going to give us free publicity without good reason.

The current model is based on a misconceived project - certainly as seen by the Socialist Party, which calls for the trade unions to form a new mass workers’ party. This is basically a replication of the formation of the Labour Party at the beginning of the 20th century. The concept is of a workers’ party in which the SP constitutes the socialist wing. Where that leaves all the other socialists is anyone’s guess.

The problem with this concept is, firstly, that we do not need a modern version of the old Labour Party. We need a socialist party. Secondly, the argument that we cannot move to any party formation until the trade union leaders so decide means that we will be waiting a very long time. No such step is going to be taken by any union this side of the 2015 general election and probably not for a long time afterwards. In the meantime, the strategy of sitting tight in Tusc and waiting for another union to break ranks with Labour is simply not good enough.

Bottom up

What we need is those socialists who see the necessity for a new socialist party to come together and to build it from the bottom up. This will be hard, but it is the only way. On the March 1 edition of the BBC’s Question time film director Ken Loach argued that we need a new party of the left - a Ukip of the left, if you like. He has also argued this in a recent interview. We should rally to that call and help make it a reality.

Such a new party should commit itself to ‘defend, extend and transform’. By that I mean that it should be with all struggles to defend past gains, such as the welfare state, the NHS, decent wages and safe working conditions. It should seek to extend those gains wherever possible. In the present economic conditions that would mean mobilising mass, militant action to obtain further concessions. But these campaigns should not be limited to economic issues alone. It should also take up the issues of democracy, civil liberties, war and peace, the media. Thirdly, it should explicitly proclaim that it seeks power in order to fundamentally transform society from the present capitalist system, that benefits only a tiny few, to one based on the democratic common ownership of the resources of society for the benefit of all. That is, it must be a socialist party.

This means the party must have an internationalist outlook and look to work with others, primarily across Europe, to bring about this change. There is no nationalist answer to the crisis we are experiencing.

This party must be completely democratic. There is no prospect of inspiring people to give their time, energy and money to an organisation that only exists at election time, which they cannot join and in which they have no democratic input on questions of policy and activity. It must have members who can democratically participate in the discussion on programme and practice. The members should elect the leadership, who should be accountable to the members.

All of this should be ABC and there is now an urgency to starting the process.

Q
7th March 2013, 16:01
The fruitcakes and loons of UKIP came second, Eddie Ford reflects (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/952/eastleigh-by-election-snapshot-of-political-failure) on the Eastleigh by-election.

Apparently TUSC ended 13th, read the article to see which parties got more votes...



http://www.cpgb.org.uk/assets/images/wwimages/ww952/sm-Farage.jpg
Nigel Farage: very good second, fruitcake

Tory fortunes look very rocky at the moment. First the UK’s ‘gold-plated’ credit rating was downgraded, which exposed George Osborne as an emperor with no clothes or coherent economic strategy. Now David Cameron has suffered the humiliation of seeing the Tory candidate in the February 28 Eastleigh by-election beaten into third place by the United Kingdom Independence Party, an organisation he once dismissed - and maybe still does privately - as “fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists mostly”.

When Nigel Farage, Ukip’s leader - if not dictator - stood in the 1994 Eastleigh by-election, he polled just 952 votes (1.7%). But this time his candidate, Diana James, secured 27.8% of the vote (11,571 votes) - barely 4% behind the official winner of the contest, Mike Thornton of the Liberal Democrats (13,342 votes). As for the Tories’ Maria Hutchings, she trailed on 10,559 votes (25.37%). Labour’s John O’Farrell came a fairly miserable fourth on 4,088 votes (9.82%).

In other words, by any objective measurement, Ukip came a very good second and the Tories came a very bad third - with Labour coming to a shuddering halt. Yes, we all know that by-elections are no automatic guidance to general election prospects and that there are very particular - perhaps unusual - circumstances surrounding Eastleigh: like the fact that is a ‘one-party state’ where all the councillors are Lib Dems. But it would be foolish and philistine to dismiss the electoral verdict on that day as a purely one-off phenomenon.

The Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition, by the way, received a whopping 62 votes (0.15%) - beaten into 13th place, including by candidates from the Beer, Baccy and Crumpet Party, Christian Party, Monster Raving Loony Party, Peace Party and Elvis Loves Pets Party. [emphasis added by Q] Not so long ago, as regularly Weekly Worker readers will recall, the Tusc leadership absurdly argued that only organisations which had “social weight” should be allowed to field candidates under its electoral umbrella (which apparently excluded the CPGB, but not, for example, the Socialist Party in England and Wales).

Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg described Mike Thornton’s performance in Eastleigh as a “stunning” victory - the Lib Dems holding onto the seat vacated by a disgraced Chris Huhne. Yet in some respects you could argue that Eastleigh was a disaster avoided, not a triumph - stunning or otherwise. In reality the Lib Dem vote fell by a substantial 14.48% (to 32% of the total vote).

Indeed, the strong suspicion is that Ukip would have won the election if campaigning had carried on for a few more weeks - it obviously had the wind in its sails, not something you can say about the Lib Dems or the other mainstream parties. There are not many seats where the Lib Dems could survive such a drop and still come out on top. Actually, Cleggian hyperbole aside, the 14-point drop in their Eastleigh vote share since 2010 is entirely consistent with numerous opinion polls, which suggest a nationwide collapse from 24% to something around 10% or so.

Having said that, it is the case that the Tory press mounted a concerted and not so subtle effort to halt the Lib Dems in Eastleigh. Hence the running of near endless scandalous stories about Huhne and especially Lord Rennard, whose unseemly behaviour they had known about for a long time, of course - but now was the perfectly opportune time to get the presses rolling.

The Lib Dem victory was ultimately down to the fact that they had experienced cadre on the ground - thus contradicting the left cliché that bourgeois parties have no contact or relationship with the local communities outside of elections and just cynically parachute in ‘outsiders’ or high-profile candidates. Whilst this is certainly true of an outfit like Tusc, an on-off electoral alliance that treats the electorate with contempt, that is most distinctly not the case with the Lib Dems - at least in constituencies like leafy Eastleigh. [emphasis added by Q] Councillor Thornton’s unashamedly localist focus on traffic lights, the local bypass, etc struck a resonance with sections of the electorate - prevailing over the shrill, Tory-centric, sometimes semi-hysterical national press.

The Tories’ share of the vote fell by a similar amount to the Lib Dems (13.96%). However, the sober reality is that the Conservative Party needs to win seats such as Eastleigh if it is to have any chance of forming a government on its own in 2015 - the last time the Tories won an outright majority, they held Eastleigh with a majority of 18,000 votes.

However, as things stand now - despite the economy on the brink of a possible triple-dip recession and absolutely no recovery on the horizon - the Tories are in with a real chance of forming a majority government at the next election. Moreover, they are well placed to do a deal, either with the Lib Dems or with Ukip (but not with both). ‘One nation’ Labour certainly has nothing to smile about, as previously noted - though if you are a supreme optimist then maybe you could find a sliver of consolation in the fact that Labour was the only mainstream party to actually increase its share of the vote on February 28, albeit by a less than awesome fifth of 1%. Eastleigh, when all is said and done, represents a failure of Miliband’s rebranding, especially as it was designed to appeal to southern voters.

Depressing news for Labour then. Under normal circumstances, so to speak, they would expect to occupy - and benefit electorally from - the acres of vacant space to the left of an increasingly unpopular rightwing government committed to a vicious regime of cuts, even in many ‘typical’ southern seats. It should be able to do better than a pretty pitiful 10%, putting it bluntly.

Nonetheless, the rumbles of discontent from the Tory backbenches are getting deeper and more repeated. Before Eastleigh, the prominent rightwinger, David Davis - who, of course, stood against Cameron for the Tory leadership - gravely informed The Guardian that the prime minister would be in “crisis” if Ukip managed to claim second place (February 22). In fact, he went on, even a Tory “close second” with Ukip on “our tail” would also be “uncomfortable”. Well, what Davis feared has come true - now comes the bitter inquest and recriminations.

Inevitably, there have been Pavlovian cries for larger tax reductions and greater spending cuts. Right on cue, the Free Enterprise group of Tory MPs have urged George Osborne to “wake up” to the “harm” caused by high taxes. Stifling tomorrow’s entrepreneurs and ‘wealth creators’. There is widespread talk from the right of challenging Cameron’s leadership if the March budget speech turns out to be disappointing from their perspective - an almost certainty - and if they also do badly in the May local elections.

So many voices are being raised saying the Tories urgently need to move to the right in order to reclaim the ground allegedly stolen from them by Ukip - start banging on about tighter immigration laws, repatriating powers from the Brussels bureaucrats, and so on. Cameron’s recent call for a simple in-out referendum on European Union membership, though hailed by many at the time as a brilliant political manoeuvre, does not seem to have warded off the dangerous Ukip beast - at least not yet.

Expressing this anxiety, Michael Fabricant - the Tory vice-chairman who last year called for an electoral pact with Ukip - issued a series of tweets about how the Tories’ voice is “muffled and “not crisp”: it does not “clearly project” Conservative Party “core policies or principles”. For Fabricant, Ukip “clearly connected with Conservative policies” at Eastleigh. Or, as Nigel Farage put it more straightforwardly, the “real problem” the Conservatives have got is not with Ukip, but rather that their own supporters “look at a Conservative Party that used to talk about wealth creation, low tax and enterprise and it now talks about gay marriage and wind farms” and other such highly undesirable issues. Instead, back to reactionary basics.

Unhappily for the Tories though, this sort of prognosis is at best crudely simplistic and at worst plain delusional. If only life was so simple. Take a quick look at the Tories’ Eastleigh candidate, Maria Hutchings. She came across as more Ukip than Ukip’s own Diane James. Yet it counted for nothing in the end.

Such ideological crossover fatally undermines reductive political calculations predicated on a left-right see-saw. Moving to the right (or the left, for that matter), as Cameron has pointed out, will not automatically reap any benefits in the ballot box. Think again. Who exactly would be moving closer to whom and who will be trying to steal votes from whom?

Even more basically still, as Farage noted quite correctly, such an idea is based on “false arithmetic” - posited on the premise that Ukip is only picking up disaffected Tory voters. Obviously not the case. According to Farage’s calculations, which sound plausible, merely a third of the Ukip vote came from unhappy Tories. Cameron, on the other hand, has concluded - far from illogically - that he is doing the right thing by sticking to the ‘sensible’ centre-right ground. Keep on hugging those hoodies and loving gays.

Ukip’s emerging ‘anti-politics’ politics are more akin to Beppe Grillo’s Five Star Movement in Italy - and all the more potentially dangerous for that, given his virulently reactionary, anti-trade union/immigrant views. This, of course, utterly confounds the Socialist Workers Party’s contention that the FSM is somehow leftwing. If that is so, then so is Ukip - perhaps Socialist Worker should urge the working class to ‘critically’ vote for Nigel Farage in 2015.

Q
7th March 2013, 20:12
The current model is based on a misconceived project - certainly as seen by the Socialist Party, which calls for the trade unions to form a new mass workers’ party. This is basically a replication of the formation of the Labour Party at the beginning of the 20th century. The concept is of a workers’ party in which the SP constitutes the socialist wing. Where that leaves all the other socialists is anyone’s guess.

The problem with this concept is, firstly, that we do not need a modern version of the old Labour Party. We need a socialist party. Secondly, the argument that we cannot move to any party formation until the trade union leaders so decide means that we will be waiting a very long time. No such step is going to be taken by any union this side of the 2015 general election and probably not for a long time afterwards. In the meantime, the strategy of sitting tight in Tusc and waiting for another union to break ranks with Labour is simply not good enough.
While not often elaborated, this strategy of reproducing the situation as it was when the SPEW was in Labour as Militant, does seem to be the underlying idea of calling for a "new workers party". A very strange type of strategy if one thinks about it. After all: Militant got expelled from Labour 1.0, why wouldn't it be from Labour 2.0?

Also, Labour 1.0, being a product from the trade union bureaucracy (I think Nick is a little vague on that, although I agree with the obvious statement that Labour was never a socialist party) resulted in the type of party that they wanted: One that is bound to the system (class collaborationist), controlled from top to bottom (bureaucratic) and bound to the existing state (nationalist). What we need is the exact opposite: A independent working class, democratic and internationalist party. Calling for the TUC to disaffiliate from their natural party (like hell they will) and form a clone right next to it is not only a waste of resources, but, if successful, would result in exactly the same type of shit: A labourite party.

I agree therefore also with Nicks other statement: We don't need a modern version of the old Labour Party. We need a socialist party: A mass party that fights for working class political power over society (genuine democracy as the working class is the vast majority of society in the core capitalist countries), abolishes the top-down capitalist state and strives for global unity of our class and revolution on exactly that scale, starting out with Europe.

To start with that process, TUSC needs to become a party by allowing other groups and individuals to affiliate and adopt a programme that fights for working class rule.

GiantMonkeyMan
8th March 2013, 00:42
To start with that process, TUSC needs to become a party by allowing other groups and individuals to affiliate and adopt a programme that fights for working class rule.
Anyone can join TUSC as long as they agree with and promise to follow the manifesto laid out here (http://www.tusc.org.uk/policy.php). It's basically the type of 'transitional demands' common amongst trot parties such as nationalise the banks etc. The official line of the SP is along the lines of 'take key industries into democratic people's control' rather than 'nationalise'.

I see TUSC having a lot of potential, to be honest. I'm not sure how it can evolve into something more worthwhile, however. I'd love to see it splitting the Labour vote as UKIP splits the conservatives but who knows. BTW, my local SP branch are already starting to campaign under the TUSC banner in light of what happened in Eastleigh as clearly a few weeks makes for a pretty poor election campaign.

JollyRedGiant
8th March 2013, 20:33
TUSC won a council seat on Maltby Town Council in Yorkshire this week taking 303 votes 60% of the vote on a 16% turnout - from the LP candidate who ran as an independent after the LP councillors attempted to co-opt him without a by-election. Maltby is an ex-mining town which lost 550 jobs when the mine closed. A LP clique have run the council for years and four years ago the BNP won a seat which they held for a year.

Vladimir Innit Lenin
9th March 2013, 02:39
16% turnout, things are looking up.

TUSC has been an un-mitigated disaster. A reformist coalition to rival the early Labour Party. The SPEW are such a joke. Why are they aligning with the TU bureaucracy? Yeah, that's 'Socialism'.

JollyRedGiant
9th March 2013, 19:26
16% turnout, things are looking up.

16% is quite high for a council by-election- Most barely break the 10% turnout.

The Idler
9th March 2013, 22:57
What Nick Wrack seems to be proposing is yet another reinvention of the wheel.
His proposals seem closest to Respect Party but are pretty vague so could equally be the Independent Working Class Association if they're still going.
Posted in events too
http://www.revleft.com/vb/independent-socialist-network-t179287/index.html

Red Commissar
10th March 2013, 01:10
What kind of structure does the UKIP have for this stuff? They seem to have very eager rank-and-file like the astroturfed teabaggers in this country. It's concerning they get the results they do even if the turnouts are low.

Vladimir Innit Lenin
10th March 2013, 14:33
16% is quite high for a council by-election- Most barely break the 10% turnout.

Got stats for that?

I'm not sure a 16% turnout is evidence of high voter enthusiasm for TUSC.

I'm not sure most people know who TUSC are. Probably because trying to form an electoral coalition with union bureaucrats has to go down as one of the worst strategies for 'Socialism' since Bernstein et al. ploughed the reformist route themselves.

Clarion
12th March 2013, 15:04
Great, another new party!

A "socialist party" can never be a mass party because it will be an organisation based on advancing its own ideology, its own sectarian principles rather than based on the organised working class.

You can't create a mass party through an act of sectarianism.

The Idler
12th March 2013, 20:36
Great, another new party!

A "socialist party" can never be a mass party because it will be an organisation based on advancing its own ideology, its own sectarian principles rather than based on the organised working class.

You can't create a mass party through an act of sectarianism.
There is nothing sectarian per se about workers creating a party based on its own principles. In fact, the more different the principles, the less sectarian. Of course these principles may differ from those currently held by the working-class. Sections of the working-class might even disagree, shock horror, in which case choosing whether to support/join a party is one of the better tests of what is and isn't in the best interests of the class.

The "sectarian" jibe has been thrown around a lot for decades by the left, and cited as the main obstacle to working-class support. I think its an extremely dubious claim at best.

red flag over teeside
12th March 2013, 23:30
The point for Marxists surely is to help to faciliatate the rupture in capitalist consciousness that most workers aquire through the simple fact of living within a capitalist society and replace the present capitalist consciousness with a Marxist/communist consciousness. Will TUSC be part of this process of course not. Should Marxists be part of such an organisation. I would argue against being part of TUSC as it will inevitably lead to demoralisation of activists.

JollyRedGiant
13th March 2013, 13:41
I'm not sure a 16% turnout is evidence of high voter enthusiasm for TUSC.
Never claimed that it was - but winning a seat with 60% of the vote is better than losing with 1%

red flag over teeside
13th March 2013, 16:54
The problem for TUSC is that the unions as a body are politically commited to the Labour Party due to the simple fact that there will at some point be a Labour government where the union leaderships hope to get something to show their members. Why ditch Labour and go for some small grouplet which has no hope of forming a government.

Of course the history of the LP has been one of managing capitalism as has the role of the unions. Neither are commited to overthrowing capitalism. TUSC sits in this parliamentary tradition and in the present crisis will prove just as inadeqaute in dealing with the crisis.

GiantMonkeyMan
14th March 2013, 02:20
The argument is that the manifesto of TUSC is essentially the transitional demands of Trotskyism. Essentially TUSC will strive to defend what the working class has gained so far in Britain - something that pretty much no other (mainstream, I guess) party is willing to do as they all commit to cuts and privatisation - as well as extending those gains somewhat. Not exactly in any attempt to establish a workers' state but to show a frankly demoralised working class that they have power of their own and eventually, once the reforms have been proven to be inadequate, to drive the working class to use that collective power to take control for themselves.

I'm not sure I think the process has any merit as the concept has been shown to be ineffectual so often in the past. However, I will say that I'd much prefer for TUSC to get mainstream and popular, splitting the Labour vote, than for UKIP to get popular and split the Tory vote. I'd like to drive politics left rather than allow a build in the reactionary right.

Futility Personified
14th March 2013, 02:33
I know some good folk who are in SPEW, but their absolute faith in TUSC and the lack of critical appraisal over Mr Crow kinda scared me away. I think every single day that passes makes me feel any attempt to enter into mainstream political processes is a waste of time, but after my drubbing in the rod thread i'll admit that beyond solidarity networks i'm not really sure what else to do, but i'm damn sure that selling newspapers and telling people about what sounds like animal anatomy when we're at a stage where the greens are considered "centre left" and still get no votes isn't really the way forward.

TUSC is a nice idea but trying to get into a capitalist parliament means that at some point dodginess will enter the equation and taint you. Besides, the labour party has already happened, unless the greens and respect (although that's pretty fucked too from what I hear) is absorbed, it just seems a bit futile. Not much help saying it's all shit and offering no alternative I know but there's got to be a better use of resources.

Vladimir Innit Lenin
14th March 2013, 23:28
Never claimed that it was - but winning a seat with 60% of the vote is better than losing with 1%

Yes, 60% is an indicator of a qualitatively different level of support than 1%, but comparing 16% with 10%, as you did, is not.

I don't see why it's any better. Resorting to such a desperate defence of a dead-end policy stinks of the 'Old Labour' reformism that SPEW has always, and continues to, spew ('scuse the pun).

Total dead end. Total. I'm just gonna keep repeating that, because it's important that other Socialists see that electoral coalitions with non-workers (the TU bureaucrats) is a dead end. A total, bloody lifeless, dead end.

goalkeeper
15th March 2013, 14:33
So fold the electoral coalition no one gives a shit about then make it again with the same people but different name and still no one gives a shit about it. Ok.