I attended Right-Wing (edit:softly said) party tribune!

[Valdemar]

First of all, Hi there Commarades!

Yesterday I attended Right Wing (party) tribune (edited. If I think it more, it was "Clero-Fascist") . I was invited by one of my friends who has right-wing views, although he knows I'm Communist, but he wanted me "feel" the atmosphere at those meetings and because my arguments against nationalism are firm and hard, he wanted me to listen to someone more experienced than him.

Since most of you did not or did not want or can't join one, i wanted to share impressions with you guys and let you debate and share your views on it.

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When we (me, my friend and friends friend whom I know) arrived there, in hall we were meted by low party members and even chairman himself! Which gave you feeling of importance and joy! In hall there were selling of books, various of nationalist books and some "French revolution" with reactionary point of view. But all in all, there was friendly atmosphere, everyone was nice, and even party politicians were friendly and warm, unlike other politicians whom I met, who are cold and feel distant.

Once we entered main hall where tribune is held, there was rows of seats and tribune, table with drinks and promoting books and chairs (it seems for politicians of course and speakers) First I've noticed a some old people seated, and first impression was that it is only old people and young are not interested in Communism and revolutionary change at all (more about that in some other thread) but after few minutes a lot! and I seriously mean A LOT! young people came. Among them young girls, which quite surprised me, since girls are not into those "nationalist,patriarchy" stuff. Which made me think to come next time to those meetings/tribunes just because of them :wub:

Once everyone seated, lights went off and music started playing ( pretty loud so people would stop talking), it was some nationalistic song (written by party), in folk style, with girl singing and a man, how he will go to war to defend what is right and girl who will be at home and defend/protect what is his and on wall was "video projection" of glorious history and etc. (talking about Fascism eh?) and then after a while some guys behind me started to SING! yes SING! although i thought text was about some "tribal wars and feuds" and imigary of some glorious past which is PAST, and those idiots behind me are clearly delusional and indoctrinated (beside idiotic) I could not help myself not to get GOOSE GOOSEBUMPS!

After song and video projection ended, lights went on, a short man with fu- manchu facial hair with glasses in bussnies suit, but without a tie stepped to the podium/tribune. His first words where God is Great/Blessed be by God ( Grüße dich Gott)Brothers and Sisters, while mass of people answered him the back in once voice, I again could not help myself to not get...yes you got it right, GOOSE GOOSEBUMPS! Then he started to talk, how the time has come, that this isn't economic crisis but also spiritual and intellectual, (people euphoric and applauding while he stops for while) that multiculturalism is wrong and it is proven that nations should be parted with law and border and that they are not against no one but for natural law of God. People were euphoric and again applauding. Then to not sound so "Fash" he gave us to know that in the party there are other nationals also. Then some other party member came to podium, also in business suit, but this time in a tie, with Goat like facial hair, and started reading from book as advertisement, after finishing his excerpts people manicly applauded. Again some speech about books, while using rhetoric as "they (media) say this is dangerous stuff, and I assure you IT IS!" that made massive impact on audience among other things(now I'm rushing things, and skipping a lot of stuff like, praise the god, how gay people are not made gay, how communist are evil etc. and criticism of revolutions and socialist writers) Then there were Q&A, where some old people asked some not so smart things, then again guy with fu manchu facial hair came to the podium and asked us that next time we bring one more friend with us and next time one more, again lights went off there was again video and music presentation with "choir" in the back and this time in-front of me to! Once lights were on, we went to hall, and there was prepared something for eat and drink to satisfy our "primal needs" and to go happy with nice feelings home.

I must admit that I felt good after that tribune and somehow lost, while my friend was ecstatic as never and in bliss like state.

While I could talk over friend and his friend that communism is good and worthy cause, and I even managed to achieve that my friend does not join few of those tribunes, I think after yesterday I'm unable to do that, as their faith is even stronger, and even my faith has shrieked.

It is so easy to play with basic emotions of people, (glorious past, religion, xenophobia) to win them over, but if you wish someone to be communist, heh! He must use his brain and not emotions and think, he must understand basics of this society, and that is hard! more than you can think of. but wanting him to understand how they are exploited, used by capitalist and how democracy isn't democracy at all and how imperialism works, it is almost impossible.
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Now, more then ever I believe that It is bad that you ban and restrict people who come to this forum, as you give them feeling of not belonging here and in the RevLeft movement, people want to belong somewhere, that is their need, they need to feel that, and if you push them away, you push them in arms of someone else.

Looking forward too see your reply!

Next time, i'll write about University I'm going and how they are "apolitical". (if i'm not banned :|)

[hatzel]

So let's just clarify something here: does this thread exist for any reason other than you complaining (once again) about being restricted, even though you've been told several times that the way to get unrestricted is to participate in debate proving you're a leftist, not just complaining about being restricted all the time. So please explain if there is any other intention to this post, so that we might know what we're supposed to say...

[Valdemar]

So let's just clarify something here: does this thread exist for any reason other than you complaining (once again) about being restricted, even though you've been told several times that the way to get unrestricted is to participate in debate proving you're a leftist, not just complaining about being restricted all the time. So please explain if there is any other intention to this post, so that we might know what we're supposed to say...

*Yes!, all purpose of this thread is to whine about being restricted*sarcasm

No, I could achieve that with a lot shorter thread, like other thread which I created after this, which was named "Its really annoying to be Restricted!" where I told how it annoying to be restricted with no intention to defend or persuade you that I'm not reactionary. but it seems it was Moved?or Removed?
But I certainly did use this thread it to show how discrimination gives you feeling of not belonging to the movement and throwing them in arms of Reactionary movements.

Like I said in the beginning of thread: "Since most of you did not or did not want or can't join one, i wanted to share impressions with you guys and let you debate and share your views on it."

Sorry to bother you, but could you make me a favour and find me where I have been told several times that "the way to get unrestricted is to participate in debate proving you're a leftist, not just complaining about being restricted all the time." Cause I really can't remember that part :( , and if it was told to me several times, I'm sure you will find it pretty fast.

You can say whatever you want, you can comment on their organization, on their struggle, on their masterful fash propaganda. you can even comment my goosebumps! You can ask me if it is common that, how much votes that party have, are they restricted as party? You can comment story from "literal perspective" :P, Whatever thought you get! And you can write something smart regarding last thing, about, how people can get manipulated by those basic emotions of "pride, history, religion" and how difficult is someone to become communist in today society, to realize that they are exploited, rejects all those reactionary emotions and joins the struggle for better world. I would be really happy!

[Comrade #138672]

You seem quite comfortable with those Fascists. You even say that you're questioning your own "faith". To be honest, I'm not surprised that you have been restricted. If you want to be unrestricted, you might want to reconsider some of your views.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I'm not sure why you were restricted nor does it really matter to me, but I'll just say that if I went to a right-wing gathering like this I would probably get kicked out :laugh:. I would be raging the entire time about how wrong and racist they are. Of course then I would probably get harassed.

[Questionable]

(now I'm rushing things, and skipping a lot of stuff like, praise the god, how gay people are not made gay, how communist are evil etc. and criticism of revolutions and socialist writers)

What? How can you skip that? It's pretty fucking important.

[Slavoj Zizek's Balls]

Since when was RevLeft a movement?

[Le Socialiste]

This just reads like a threat to me (not a very good one, mind you). "Unrestrict me or you'll lose me to the fascists!" If that's your argument good riddance.

[Valdemar]

You seem quite comfortable with those Fascists. You even say that you're questioning your own "faith". To be honest, I'm not surprised that you have been restricted. If you want to be unrestricted, you might want to reconsider some of your views.

It seems you did not understand me, probably because my English is not so good and because it was hasty written.
I'm puzzled, like I said in the end, how can I show someone the true way, when they are so easily manipulated with emotions, how can they realize they are exploited, and even if they realize, how can they then ditch such pride and those emotions, that's why I'm losing faith, I'm losing faith that revolution is possible :(

Although this thread is not about restriction, but you can answer this question in PM.
May I ask you why are you not surprised that I'm restricted? What in those events that night is in your opinion is worth of my restriction? What do you think is accomplished by restricting someone?


I'm not sure why you were restricted nor does it really matter to me, but I'll just say that if I went to a right-wing gathering like this I would probably get kicked out :laugh:. I would be raging the entire time about how wrong and racist they are. Of course then I would probably get harassed.

I'm pretty calm guy, which can find reason and understanding of wrongdoing, but I still not consider it good and the way to do it. But in some situations, when I'm deeply hurt (emotionally or physicaly ) I do lose control. Which I tend to learn to control. (any tip ? ;) )


What? How can you skip that? It's pretty fucking important.

I was in hurry to the lectures, and Well, it was story which we all already heard (God created man and woman and not two man etc.) , he was reading some things which one monk said, from book. But if you are interested I could try to remember.


Since when was RevLeft a movement?

I did not have in mind RevLeft as forum, but I used it as Revolutionary Leftist Movement as whole (Communist (ML etc.) , Anarchist)


This just reads like a threat to me (not a very good one, mind you). "Unrestrict me or you'll lose me to the fascists!" If that's your argument good riddance.

Not at all my friend! Not at all! And if it would be threat, which isn't, it would not only be bad one, it would be quite stupid one! Thank you for your kind words, because you could easily called it stupid threat, which would make a guy who said, it quite stupid. But I did not say it, not at all!

But please, ask, comment something else, I'm sure you have some other comment beside that!

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

This just reads like a threat to me (not a very good one, mind you). "Unrestrict me or you'll lose me to the fascists!" If that's your argument good riddance.
It sure does. I got a good laugh out of the OP though so it´s all good. Why that fascist meeting was such a euphoric and mind-altering event is beyond me.:laugh:

[p0is0n]

this is the most confusing thread i have ever read, and i survived avanti.

[Hit The North]

I did not have in mind RevLeft as forum, but I used it as Revolutionary Leftist Movement as whole (Communist (ML etc.) , Anarchist)


You make an excellent point. The left could be way more inclusive. Instead you have small sects who take pride in exclusion. Some organisations even make potential recruits sit exams, for fuck's sake :rolleyes:.

Your description of the fascist meeting was interesting - especially the way in which they attempt to appeal at the emotional level rather than the intellect (a necessary trick for the fascists given the poor quality of their arguments). But, again, the left over-emphasise the power of rational argument and are suspicious of emotional appeals. We need to think more politically and less theoretically.

[#FF0000]

i survived avanti.

there is no surviving avanti. avanti is in all things. before us, avanti. after us, avanti.

avanti.

[LOLseph Stalin]

You make an excellent point. The left could be way more inclusive. Instead you have small sects who take pride in exclusion. Some organisations even make potential recruits sit exams, for fuck's sake :rolleyes:.

Your description of the fascist meeting was interesting - especially the way in which they attempt to appeal at the emotional level rather than the intellect (a necessary trick for the fascists given the poor quality of their arguments). But, again, the left over-emphasise the power of rational argument and are suspicious of emotional appeals. We need to think more politically and less theoretically.

I do believe this is exactly why so many people think we're idealistic and will never actually accomplish anything. Discussing hypothetical scenarios of what might happen during or after a revolution only does so much. Circumstances could change, different theories may need to be implemented.

Anyway, I think the left would be taken more seriously if we actually took the time to look at the emotional side of things too. It could possibly win over some of the less intellectually inclined people. I think fascism is growing in popularity because of that factor, as sad as it is. It's easy to appeal to people's emotions, especially through suspicion and hate of specific groups.

[Slavoj Zizek's Balls]

Just don't forget the fact that Revleft is a message board that can carry a unified movement. If we want a unified radical left movement then it needs input from all of us as well as a name that doesn't create the reaction like someone has stepped in some dog muck every time it's used.

I may as well rant now and get it over with:

• If we are going to unify the left we can't focus too much on ideologies because ideologies enforce schools of thought that are quite rigid, promoting a human tendency to be idealistic as opposed to practical as well as creating a club mentality that is all play and no work.

• It wouldn't be wise to glorify someone by putting their name alongside an "-ism" because that gives ammunition to opposing groups, promoting the fallible side of whichever human being's name you use.

• We can't even have the movement complimented (name wise) by an "-ism" because it gives something for the media to grab on to and distort. "-ist" is more suitable because it promotes a sense of "practice" as if you are actually carrying out the movement rather than representing some doctrine.

That'll do for now.