Arguing with Right-wingers

[Vince]

I'm currently in high school and almost all my friends are right-wing republican conservatives. I tell them I'm on the left but do not tell them I am a libertarian socialist because their heads explode if you even mention the word socialism (mostly because they have no understanding of what it actually is).

My question is basically, how do I argue with people who believe that socialism/communism is automatically evil, capitalism is great, America is number one, Reagan was a great president, if you're poor its always you're fault because you're lazy, etc.?They're so closed minded and I think this is prevalent in American society due to overwhelming U.S. propaganda regarding these issues.

[1848]

Your friends sound like bigots. If they are truly so close-minded to be unable to see anything else aside from their own views, then arguing with them is a hopeless cause. If your friends do not even know what "socialism" is, then why are they so opposed to it?

[Clarion]

Only by understanding their perspectives can you understand how they may be won away from them.

[Fourth Internationalist]

I assume they are Christians?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

[Mackenzie_Blanc]

These right-wingers will probably mention that "socialism is good in theory, but never in practice" and that a pure, free socialist society has never occurred because of human nature. :confused:

Mention that prosperity has increased in the U.S. since the creation of the welfare state; how the Paris Commune, The Ukrainian Free Territory, and Revolutionary Spain were voluntary, cooperative societies that weren't the Stalinist totalitarian regimes that Right-wingers claim is pure communism - and that they became more productive after capitalism was abolished.

[Nico Belic]

Reagan was a great president

Conservatives hate debt. So your argument can be that Reagan created a tonne of it, thus creating taxes and inflation that conservatives hate.

[Left Voice]

There is also the basic fact that people with diametrically opposing views are unlikely to agree or see reason in the other's argument, no matter how well reasoned the arguments are.

It would be the same if my right-wing friends were to preach neo-liberalism. They could argue their point until they're blue in the face, but such a political stance is so diametrically opposed to my world view and what I consider to be fair that I'm never going to understand their point of of view. Indeed, they probably feel the same about socialism.

The U.S. is obviously quite unique when it comes to the sheer force of the demonisation of the left. When I tell my American friends that I am left wing, they assume I must be a liberal because anything more left than that is unthinkable for them. By comparison, in the UK the socialists played a major role in cooperation with the trade unionists to fight for worker rights in the 70s and 80s before they were finally crushed by Thatcher. The perception of socialism is very different.

[tuwix]

I'm currently in high school and almost all my friends are right-wing republican conservatives. I tell them I'm on the left but do not tell them I am a libertarian socialist because their heads explode if you even mention the word socialism (mostly because they have no understanding of what it actually is).

My question is basically, how do I argue with people who believe that socialism/communism is automatically evil, capitalism is great, America is number one, Reagan was a great president, if you're poor its always you're fault because you're lazy, etc.?They're so closed minded and I think this is prevalent in American society due to overwhelming U.S. propaganda regarding these issues.

I've answered similar question a few day ago and a I reiterate my answer:

"I think you should attack base of their ideology which is free market. Use a definition that confirm that market is regulated by nothing (from dictionary.reference.com or wikipedia ). And then show that its is just impossible to be a market that is regulated by nothing. If there is a state or not, there always is someone who interferes with freedom of market through taxes or rackets or whatever.

You can also deny their freedom showing that wage labor is a paid slavery and slavery has nothing to do with freedom."

[Brutus]

Make them poor

[Kindness]

I'd argue against the idea that a complete free market leads to greater wealth and happiness. Point out the higher standards of living, lower crime rates, and HDI indexes in places that are more socialistic, like Scandinavia, France, and Germany, than in the United States. Point out the widening gap in income and the fall in real wages since the Reagan era here in the US, and connect that with how they are less likely to get a decently paying job when they graduate.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm currently in high school and almost all my friends are right-wing republican conservatives. I tell them I'm on the left but do not tell them I am a libertarian socialist because their heads explode if you even mention the word socialism (mostly because they have no understanding of what it actually is).

My question is basically, how do I argue with people who believe that socialism/communism is automatically evil, capitalism is great, America is number one, Reagan was a great president, if you're poor its always you're fault because you're lazy, etc.?They're so closed minded and I think this is prevalent in American society due to overwhelming U.S. propaganda regarding these issues.I doubt one on one that any arguement could make much of a dent. Depending on how deeply they've internalized these arguments, really what would create a crack in their ideological view would be if their ideas and their experience came into direct conflict (and even then many people will hold opposing logic at the same time). So if they are young, they may just have these ideas because they were handed down to them by their peers or parents - when they get a job, maybe some of their notions will be challenged, if the economy enters a 2nd recession they may decide that maybe these policies don't work, and if there are actual healthy movements challenging these ideas and exposing the reality of conditions for workers through action and ideological argument, then they might be swayed to see that their only choices aren't Democrats or Republicans.

So personally I would only argue with such people if I wanted to just make a line in the sand about where I stood and defend my views (like if they were social friends or co-workers or classmates who I have to or like to interact with) or if there was an audience of more "on the fence" people who might be swayed one way or another (like if at work there was a Dittohead or Glenn Beck fan who were always talking shit and I could argue and get more support from my more sympathetic co-workers and maybe even convince them of some of my positions through the debate with the right-winger).

[Desy]

I was telling one of my friends; you will never win an argument that is commumism vs capitalism. It's arguing theorys, so that never works. Now what I would do to your friend's is you have to put some negative light on something that can be argued with facts. This would be Regan. reagan.proco:rolleyes:n.org use that site. It's good to see the pros and cons of his time in office.

Now this might seem blunt, but make them feel stupid for not being prepared enough to argue the facts of their fearless leader. And one of two things can happen 1) they are in secure and its time to go with ideology argument for socialism, or 2) they just block out everything and try to quit the discussion and just say that you're wrong with no proof. If that happens then I'm sorry your friends are closed minded and it's a waste of time to argue.

-sorry I guess I can't post links.

[Lokomotive293]

I'd argue against the idea that a complete free market leads to greater wealth and happiness. Point out the higher standards of living, lower crime rates, and HDI indexes in places that are more socialistic, like Scandinavia, France, and Germany, than in the United States.

If you want to convince people of socialism, and not just of voting for the Democrats, that is exactly what you should not do. There's nothing socialist about France, Germany or Scandinavia.

[Luís Henrique]

how do I argue with people who believe that [...] capitalism is great, [...]

Do they even know what capitalism is?

Many people like that call "capitalism" a system that actually only exists in their own heads (or perhaps in the ideological books and articles they read), not what actually exists. If so, they will probably respond to an accurate criticism of our capitalist reality by disqualifying many aspects of our present societies as non-capitalist. But if they do so, then they have to admit that what they are defending is not what actually exists, but some kind of utopia.


I'm currently in high school and almost all my friends are right-wing republican conservatives.

[...]

They're so closed minded and I think this is prevalent in American society due to overwhelming U.S. propaganda regarding these issues.

It doesn't seem to be prevalent in American society (conservative Republicans are today still licking the wounds of their recent defeat in presidential elections).

Luís Henrique

[cantwealljustgetalong]

Go for the Jesus angle
Any intellectually honest person will notice Jesus is a communist of sorts, and religion has a strong hold over conservatives
Get to know the parables of Christ that concern money (and wherever else money appears in the Bible) and shoot down their righteous bullshit

Ideologically speaking, that's the best way to win them over