Chinese Maoists in Korea（N）

[China studen]

This is a reactionary article.Attack the Chinese Communists(Because the Chinese Communists at least 80% support Korea) and the Korea.

For reference and critique：

Paradise lost

In North Korea, Chinese Maoists find the land of their dreams

Nov 24th 2012 | HOECHANG, PANMUNJOM, PYONGYANG AND SHENYANG |From the print edition

Those were the days

AFTER a long drive up a narrow dirt track through hills east of Pyongyang, a North Korean tour bus dropped the Chinese tourists near a wooded graveyard. In front of it, on a concrete pedestal, stood a bronze bust of Mao Anying, the eldest son of Mao Zedong. This was their holy grail. One by one they laid wreaths and bowed in reverence (see picture). One man kowtowed. Several wept as they delivered speeches in honour of the younger Mao, who died during the Korean war. “We must clean China up and turn it a brilliant red,” said one. Another led the group in chants of “Socialism will be victorious!”

For most members of the group of 15 tourists (except one who was there to report for The Economist) the visit to North Korea was a welcome relief after a grim year. As die-hard Maoists, they believe that China’s leaders are betraying the ideals of the communist country’s founder and leading it to enslavement by the West and perdition. The past few months have seen the purging of their idol, a Mao-quoting member of the Politburo, Bo Xilai, and the closure by the Chinese government of some of their most outspoken websites.

Many of China’s new middle class regard the Maoists as members of a nutty fringe. But to the poor and marginalised, as well as a few idealistic intellectuals, their views are appealing. During their four days in North Korea in October, the Maoists found a country that appeared to be following the right path: one that, in their view, Mao had started down but which his diminutive successor, Deng Xiaoping, had abandoned. “Dwarf Deng destroyed the lives of peasants,” says one member of the group, staring from the bus at new two-storey houses in the countryside on the way to Mao Anying’s memorial in Hoechang county. The suspicions of Potemkinism that constantly prey on the minds of foreign tourists in North Korea appeared not to trouble them.

The group had assembled in the north-eastern Chinese city of Shenyang, a former centre of state-owned industry that in recent years has closed many of its old factories and turned itself into a regional hub. There they gathered in a hotel with 100 other Maoists and several plainclothes policemen who insisted on keeping watch. Though the Maoists are Communist Party loyalists at heart, their thinly veiled disdain for many of the country’s current leaders makes the authorities uneasy. They listened to a fiery speech by Zhang Hongliang, an academic from Beijing. “This has been a year of decisive battle between left and right,” said Mr Zhang, denouncing the authorities’ measures to curb Maoist websites as “fascist”. Were a “colour revolution” to occur in China, he said (referring to recent uprisings around the world) “it could turn into a red revolution”.

Great leap backwards

Few analysts believe a leap backwards to Maoist totalitarianism in China is possible. But Mao-veneered populism such as Mr Bo displayed enjoys real support. Over breakfast in a run-down Pyongyang hotel, the tourists engaged in a lively defence of Mao’s decision to launch the Cultural Revolution in 1966. Maoist websites often argue that Mao’s critics exaggerate the horrors of that decade, when hundreds of thousands were killed or persecuted by fanatical Red Guards.

“I love [North] Korea!” exclaimed one of the tourists, who teaches physical education at a school in the central province of Hubei. “It is like a pure maiden, while China is like a heavily made-up young wife,” he went on, to murmurs of approval from others as they drove through Pyongyang’s grim streets. The teacher jokingly asked an accompanying guide how he could emigrate to North Korea.

A retired official from a state-owned oil firm praised the “purity” of North Koreans compared with the Chinese, whose hearts were “filled with black-and-white cats”; a reference to Deng Xiaoping’s famously pragmatic dismissal of ideology, that it doesn’t matter if a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.

In Panmunjom, a “truce village” on the border between the two Koreas, the Maoists saw a tiny sign of what some believe has been a shift in recent months towards the kind of Deng-style economic pragmatism that they abhor. At a tourist shop, the visitors were invited by guides to haggle over prices, a practice formerly forbidden. One leader of the group said he was worried that this might mean the government was loosening its grip over the country’s (barely functioning) economy. North Korean sales staff were clearly new to the game. One sold two pairs of chopsticks for the equivalent of just over $3, but a few minutes later approached the Maoist who had bought them to demand another $3 because the salesman had made a muddle. The tourist agreed to pay the extra, but complained bitterly to her fellow Maoists.

To avoid contact with one of North Korea’s rare concessions to the decadent needs of foreign visitors, the group stayed away from the Yanggakdo Hotel in central Pyongyang. The 47-story edifice is normally popular among Chinese tourists because of a foreigners-only casino in the basement. (China may be following the capitalist road, but gambling is still banned.) Organisers of the trip felt that the Chinese prostitutes who are said to work in the hotel might have a “negative impact” on the group.

From the print edition: China

http://www.economist.com/news/china/21567131-north-korea-chinese-maoists-find-land-their-dreams-paradise-lost

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/print-edition/20121124_CNP001_0.jpg

[Ocean Seal]

Lol Maoist totalitarianism as a great leap backwards, I guess this means that China is democratic. What a great example of democracy.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Lol Maoist totalitarianism as a great leap backwards, I guess this means that China is democratic. What a great example of democracy.

Ironically during the cultural revolution the Chinese constitution had an amendment called the "Four Freedoms" that guaranteed freedom of political discussion and labor orginziation which was removed by Deng after he arrested the activists involved in the cultural revolution. (Mobe Gao, The Battle for China's Past) So the idea that today's regime is more politically tolerate is demonstrably false.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

The Korean people love their country! It's such a great place, in fact, that many of them are trying to escape to Malaysia to make their happiness levels go down so that they can appreciate it more! :laugh:

Honestly, some of the folks on these forums sound more like death-camp leaders than actual workers.

[Brutus]

North Korea isn't even slightly socialist. It's a near monarchy, with a personality cult bigger than any other! Kim il sung completed a golf course with a score of 18, yeah, all holes in one

[Brutus]

Anyone who supports north Korea is a pyschopath.

[China studen]

Anyone who supports north Korea is a pyschopath.

Anyone who opposes DPR.Korea is a pyschopath.

Moreover,All Trotskyist are idiots.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Now now, lets calm down for a moment. China studen, please give us your reasons for believing North Korea is socialist and I'll do my best to reply to them

[China studen]

North Korea isn't even slightly socialist. It's a near monarchy, with a personality cult bigger than any other! Kim il sung completed a golf course with a score of 18, yeah, all holes in one

Trotskyists (such as you) isn't even slightly socialist. Trotskyists are the lackeys of imperialism monarch! You never mentioned your masters engage in personal worship.For example, the capitalist media (newspapers, magazines, books, radio, television, network, etc.) all the time toute big capitalists such as Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett.“Kim il sung completed a golf course with a score of 18”？Where to listen to the rumors?You to do other things in addition to the spread rumors?

[China studen]

Now now, lets calm down for a moment. China studen, please give us your reasons for believing North Korea is socialist and I'll do my best to reply to them

Now now, lets calm down for a moment. Yet_Another_Boring_Marxis or others, please give us your reasons for believing Korea isn't socialist (If you think so) and I'll do my best to reply to them

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Trotskyists (such as you) isn't even slightly socialist. Trotskyists are the lackeys of imperialism monarch! You never mentioned your masters engage in personal worship.For example, the capitalist media (newspapers, magazines, books, radio, television, network, etc.) all the time toute big capitalists such as Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett.“Kim il sung completed a golf course with a score of 18”？Where to listen to the rumors?You to do other things in addition to the spread rumors?

What moronic ad hominem crap! How can you even say that with a straight face when you yourself are supporting an incredibly anti-working class monarchy!?

Trotskyists have done a hell of a lot more good for the working class than you and your reactionary political bios/religion has ever done.

Know why? Because they're actual communists! Not kiss-asses for monstrosities that hide behind anti-imperialism and ethnic supremacism, who'd label anything socialist as long as it was against America and had people looking fondly at pictures of Che and Mao.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Now now, lets calm down for a moment. Yet_Another_Boring_Marxis or others, please give us your reasons for believing Korea isn't socialist (If you think so) and I'll do my best to reply to them
You're the one saying that North Korea is socialist, so you have the burden of proof to support your views.

So you first comrade.

[China studen]

The Korean people love their country! It's such a great place, in fact, that many of them are trying to escape to Malaysia to make their happiness levels go down so that they can appreciate it more! :laugh:

Honestly, some of the folks on these forums sound more like death-camp leaders than actual workers.

The Korean people do not love their country! It's such not a great place, in fact, Korea half a century has been economic blockade, sanctions and military threatened form you imperialist Dad.In addition to Korea, no other country in the world to be able to survive in this case.(Iraq, Yugoslavia, has been to subvert Cuba in the 1960s was blockade. the DPRK in 1950.)But also to become one of the world's ten "space club" members (artificial Earth satellite launch independently developed), successfully conducted a nuclear test.:laugh:

As for the traitors, every country will exist.As the world will always be people who like to act as lackeys(Such as you),Do not like to do the upright human.

Even in China, every year there are still millions of Chinese women smuggled to Malaysia to work as prostitutes.

Honestly, some of the folks on these forums sound more like death-camp leaders than actual workers.(You the workers of Guantanamo or Abu Ghuraib ？)

PS: I hope the stupid Trotskyist you learn geography.Distinguish between Malaysia and Laos.NKorea has a traitor to go to Laos, Thailand, but did not the traitor go to Malaysia.

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

The Korean people do not love their country! It's such not a great place, in fact, Korea half a century has been economic blockade, sanctions and military threatened form you imperialist Dad.In addition to Korea, no other country in the world to be able to survive in this case.(Iraq, Yugoslavia, has been to subvert Cuba in the 1960s was blockade. the DPRK in 1950.)But also to become one of the world's ten "space club" members (artificial Earth satellite launch independently developed), successfully conducted a nuclear test.:laugh:

As for the traitors, every country will exist.As the world will always be people who like to act as lackeys(Such as you),Do not like to do the upright human.

Even in China, every year there are still millions of Chinese women smuggled to Malaysia to work as prostitutes.

Honestly, some of the folks on these forums sound more like death-camp leaders than actual workers.(You the workers of Guantanamo or Abu Ghuraib ？)

PS: I hope the stupid Trotskyist you learn geography.Distinguish between Malaysia and Laos.NKorea has a traitor to go to Laos, Thailand, but did not the traitor go to Malaysia.

I'm willing to acknowledge that perhaps Choler was abitr to quick to sarcastically dismiss your views, however you need to understand that the idea of North Korea being socialist is very controversial and if you are going to go around saying stuff like that you need to back it up with evidence and arguments, not returning the sarcasm with even more sarcasm

[China studen]

What moronic ad hominem crap! How can you even say that with a straight face when you yourself are supporting an incredibly anti-working class monarchy!?

Trotskyists have done a hell of a lot more good for the working class than you and your reactionary political bios/religion has ever done.

Know why? Because they're actual communists! Not kiss-asses for monstrosities that hide behind anti-imperialism and ethnic supremacism, who'd label anything socialist as long as it was against America and had people looking fondly at pictures of Che and Mao.

What moronic ad hominem crap! How can you even say that with a straight face when you are Act as imperialist lackeys attempt to subvert the working class 's regime in Korea!?

Juche-ist have done a hell of a lot more good for the working class than you and your reactionary political bios/religion has ever done.(Chinese Anti-Japanese War, the Chinese Trotskyist is to act as the Japanese imperialist lackeys! Glorious history of this what you Trotskyist!)

Know why? Because Kimilsung-Kimjongilists they're actual communists! Not kiss-asses for monstrosities that hide behind lmperialists rumors and ethnic supremacism, who'd label anything socialist as long as it was follow imperialist slander the Korea, and to just shout so-called "working class democracy" and had people looking fondly at pictures of Trotsky.

[China studen]

You're the one saying that North Korea is socialist, so you have the burden of proof to support your views.

So you first comrade.

You're the one saying that (N)Korea isn't socialist, so you have the burden of proof to support your views.

So you first comrade.

PS:For some of the world's recognized fact.Some people do not agree with, but also to others to prove that it is anomalous.

If I ask you: your father is a man?

This question is not ridiculous?

Imperialism or world progressive people, in short, most people around the world have said that （N）Korea is a communist (socialist) countries, we can see that this is the status quo.

So, if you are not recognized by most people in the world to say, would you please explain why.

[MarxSchmarx]

Anyone who supports north Korea is a pyschopath.


Anyone who opposes DPR.Korea is a pyschopath.

Moreover,All Trotskyist are idiots.

Baader-Meinhof and China studen both of you are warned for posting one liner flames. And China studen please stop just copying others posts and replacing the nouns. Once to make your point is fine, but repeating it is trollish and you will be infracted if that is continued.

[Brutus]

You're the one saying that (N)Korea isn't socialist, so you have the burden of proof to support your views.

So you first comrade.

PS:For some of the world's recognized fact.Some people do not agree with, but also to others to prove that it is anomalous.

If I ask you: your father is a man?

This question is not ridiculous?

Imperialism or world progressive people, in short, most people around the world have said that （N）Korea is a communist (socialist) countries, we can see that this is the status quo.

So, if you are not recognized by most people in the world to say, would you please explain why.

North Korea has has 3 members of the Kim family consecutively in power, ergo, it is more of a monarchy. The workers do not own the means of production, there is no freedom of speech or freedom of association. And as for Trotskyists (which I am not one of) serving imperialism, where's your proof?

[Yuppie Grinder]

The Korean people love their country! It's such a great place, in fact, that many of them are trying to escape to Malaysia to make their happiness levels go down so that they can appreciate it more! :laugh:

Honestly, some of the folks on these forums sound more like death-camp leaders than actual workers.

Revleft is 2/3rds trust-fundies, 1/3rd CIA infiltrators.

[China studen]

I'm willing to acknowledge that perhaps Choler was abitr to quick to sarcastically dismiss your views, however you need to understand that the idea of North Korea being socialist is very controversial and if you are going to go around saying stuff like that you need to back it up with evidence and arguments, not returning the sarcasm with even more sarcasm

I'm willing to acknowledge that I'm like to the "spear of attack sub-sub-Shield"（That is Chinese：以子之矛攻子之盾）refuted the Imperialist lackeys. Even in China forum, I also do so.
You need to understand that I just expose it disinformation.The rumors can not deny the socialist nature of the Korea.

[Brutus]

I do not know of one socialist country, as socialism and capitalism can not exist at the same time. You could say north koreanis a dictatorship of the proletariat, but that would be incorrect.

[hashem]

"Chinese Maoists in Korea（N）" (!!)

although im not a Maoist and i believe that Maoists have turned thoughts of Mao into a dogma, i admit that they are struggling for a revolution in present day China and north Korea.

internationally, Maoists were represented by Revolutionary Internationalist Movement (RIM) which had clear and definite positions against governments of China and north Korea.

anyone who supports such regimes is neither Maoist nor any kind of leftist at all.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm willing to acknowledge that I'm like to the "spear of attack sub-sub-Shield"（That is Chinese：以子之矛攻子之盾）refuted the Imperialist lackeys. Even in China forum, I also do so.
You need to understand that I just expose it disinformation.The rumors can not deny the socialist nature of the Korea.

I'd still like you to provide evidence that North Korea is socialist. Pony up.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Funny how nobody mentioned the seemingly patriarchal language of the DPRK apologists in that article:


“I love [North] Korea!” exclaimed one of the tourists, who teaches physical education at a school in the central province of Hubei. “It is like a pure maiden, while China is like a heavily made-up young wife,” he went on, to murmurs of approval from others as they drove through Pyongyang’s grim streets.

Gotta love those "pure maidens" (I wonder what that refers to ... :rolleyes:)

[Chinese]

"Chinese Maoists in Korea（N）" (!!)

although im not a Maoist and i believe that Maoists have turned thoughts of Mao into a dogma, i admit that they are struggling for a revolution in present day China and north Korea.

internationally, Maoists were represented by Revolutionary Internationalist Movement (RIM) which had clear and definite positions against governments of China and north Korea.

anyone who supports such regimes is neither Maoist nor any kind of leftist at all.

Ha ha. I see you are the real dogmatists, right?
What is Revolutionary Internationalist Movement (RIM) ?I do not care. We Chinese Communists do not care.
Anyway, we Chinese Communists think the DPRK is a socialist country. We do not need those West Trotskyites irresponsible remarks under the "Maoism" banner .
And. Cuban Communist Party, the All India Front, Communist Party of Brazil, Communist Party of Australia, Ireland and other countries Communist Workers Party supported the socialist Korea.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I can imagine, coming out of the PR¢, why the DPRK might appear appealing - after all, at this point, the PR¢ looks like the worst of both worlds: the political repression of dictatorship, and the blatant selling off of the country to capitalists.
I don't mean that as a defense of the DPRK - I just think I can see why their pretenses of resisting global capitalism might be appealing.

[motion denied]

'Communist' Party of Brazil is a complete freaking joke. A bad freaking joke. Not only are they puppets of the federal government, they act vigorously against strikes and in favor of land-lords and capitalists in general. Let's just say that they take part in a government that has just killed two striking teachers, not to mention systematic killing of poor people.

Will not begin to address how their youth act among students.

Funny enough, they are crazyass tankies too. I'd be more than worried to have them as allies. Just saying.

[Tim Cornelis]

Ironically during the cultural revolution the Chinese constitution had an amendment called the "Four Freedoms" that guaranteed freedom of political discussion and labor orginziation which was removed by Deng after he arrested the activists involved in the cultural revolution. (Mobe Gao, The Battle for China's Past) So the idea that today's regime is more politically tolerate is demonstrably false.

*sigh*. No, what it demonstrates is what it demonstrates: namely that under Mao the Chinese constitution guaranteed those freedoms, and under Deng the Chinese constitution did not. Saying that therefore the Maoist regime allowed for more 'civil liberties' does not follow from that premise. Arguing along those lines I can say that slavery never existed in the United States because the constitution declared all men to be equal, which would contradict all historical accounts, as does your claim.


Ha ha. I see you are the real dogmatists, right?
What is Revolutionary Internationalist Movement (RIM) ?I do not care. We Chinese Communists do not care.
Anyway, we Chinese Communists think the DPRK is a socialist country. We do not need those West Trotskyites irresponsible remarks under the "Maoism" banner .
And. Cuban Communist Party, the All India Front, Communist Party of Brazil, Communist Party of Australia, Ireland and other countries Communist Workers Party supported the socialist Korea.

It's sad how "communism", originally referring to a society based on freely associated equals, can now be abused by bourgeois thugs such as yourself to uphold systems that are the opposite of communism.

[hashem]

Cuban Communist Party, the All India Front, Communist Party of Brazil, Communist Party of Australia, Ireland and other countries Communist Workers Party supported the socialist Korea.

all of these parties were regarded as counter revolutionaries during Mao's era. revolutionary China supported those communists who broke away from these parties and likes of them in 1960s. but they are friends right now. what has changed during this period? have they become revolutionary or has China adopted a reactionary policy?

a true communist supports Chinese workers struggle against their bourgeois government and also exposes government of North Korea and these reactionary parties but you are welcoming their support!

[Delenda Carthago]

The workers do not own the means of production, there is no freedom of speech or freedom of association.


You know that?Because I search for info about the issue and I cant find any. You seem to know stuff about it.