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Questionable
14th February 2013, 03:23
In the first State of the Union address of his second term, President Barack Obama sent a clear signal: He will vigorously pursue an unambiguous progressive agenda in his final years as president. Universal preschool, boosting the minimum wage, passing gun-safety legislation (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/map-gun-laws-2009-2012)—Obama delivered a left-of-center demand list for Congress and his administration. He talked far more about jobs than taming the debt. He certainly cited his own efforts to reduce the deficits and hinted at another version of the grand bargain—pairing cuts in entitlements with a boost in tax revenues—the holy grail of the inside-the-Beltway set. But he advocated "modest" Medicare reforms, citing limits on payments, not benefits, and decried those calling for deep cuts in this program and Social Security. And he declared he would not yield to those seeking such cuts to stave off the soon-to-hit sequestration.
"We can't just cut our way to prosperity," Obama insisted, once again drawing the line between his progressive view of government as a source of investment in jobs-creating innovation and infrastructure and social development and the tea party-ized GOP's belief that the only solution to the nation's economic woes is slashing government and the tax bills of the well-to-do. This was the face-off he established after the shellacking of 2010 to set up the campaign of 2012. And that certainly worked out as he intended. Now re-elected by a healthy margin, Obama is willing to defy the conventionalists of Washington who fixate on debt and, instead, speak of other priorities: educating children, enhancing the purchasing power of low-income Americans, and protecting citizens from gun violence. This is a president setting his own course.
The speech was more than a Clintonesque recital of favorite policy initiatives. It was a thematic presentation of a to-do list. He nodded toward the deficit hawks, defied the Republican tea partiers, and forged ahead with the vision of America that he repeatedly explained during last year's campaign. Having won a three-quarters-loaf victory in the fight over the Bush tax cuts weeks ago, Obama pivoted from using that tussle over tax rates for the rich to cold-cock GOPers to confronting them over private interest tax loopholes. You want to cut programs for middle- and low-income Americans to deal with the nation's debt? he said. Well, that's not going to happen, especially if you won't support ending tax breaks for the well-heeled: "After all, why would we choose to make deeper cuts to education and Medicare just to protect special interest tax breaks?" He essentially dared House GOPers to play chicken with him again over government spending and the debt ceiling:

So let's set party interests aside, and work to pass a budget that replaces reckless cuts with smart savings and wise investments in our future. And let's do it without the brinksmanship that stresses consumers and scares off investors. The greatest nation on Earth cannot keep conducting its business by drifting from one manufactured crisis to the next. Let's agree, right here, right now, to keep the people’s government open, pay our bills on time, and always uphold the full faith and credit of the United States of America. The American people have worked too hard, for too long, rebuilding from one crisis to see their elected officials cause another.
Obama has said this before. When he proclaimed, "let's be clear: deficit reduction alone is not an economic plan," he was not breaking new ground in his ongoing stand-off with the Rs.
What made this speech different was his forceful advocacy of fundamental progressive proposals. He called for an infrastructure-boosting bridge-building program and the launching of high-tech manufacturing hubs. He beefed up his demand for climate change action—and cornered Senator John McCain by urging "Congress to pursue a bipartisan, market-based solution to climate change, like the one John McCain and Joe Lieberman worked on together a few years ago." He added, "if Congress won't act soon to protect future generations, I will. I will direct my Cabinet to come up with executive actions we can take, now and in the future, to reduce pollution, prepare our communities for the consequences of climate change, and speed the transition to more sustainable sources of energy."
Noting that fewer than 3 in 10 four year-olds are enrolled in a high-quality preschool program, Obama proposed working with states "to make high-quality preschool available to every child in America." That is, as Joe Biden might say, a BFD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHKq9tt50O8). The president renewed his call for comprehensive immigration reform and insisted that Congress pass legislation that addresses the gap in pay between women and men. And Obama said it was time to boost the minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. (This, though, does represent a scaling-back of ambitions: In 2008, he called for it to be raised to $9.50 an hour by 2011 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fchange.gov%2Fagenda%2Fpoverty_age nda%2F&ei=bBMbUdH4N8XrigLrjIB4&usg=AFQjCNEPg6be8HnQ2U-s58suKRbja0g3HA&sig2=XScu2OqZynhoQtBduQsjwQ&bvm=bv.42261806,d.cGE).) He announced the formation of a commission to address the rampant problems in the nation's voting system—and hailed a 102-year-old North Miami woman named Desilene Victor, who endured hours of waiting to vote in the last election.
On the foreign policy front, Obama also took a liberal line. He announced that he would be pulling 34,000 troops out of Afghanistan this year and that the war there would indeed be over by the end of next year. (Or at least the current version of the war.) And he addressed the criticisms of his administration's drone program with a direct promise:

[W]e must enlist our values in the [counterterrorism] fight. That is why my Administration has worked tirelessly to forge a durable legal and policy framework to guide our counterterrorism operations. Throughout, we have kept Congress fully informed of our efforts. I recognize that in our democracy, no one should just take my word for it that we're doing things the right way. So, in the months ahead, I will continue to engage with Congress to ensure not only that our targeting, detention, and prosecution of terrorists remains consistent with our laws and system of checks and balances, but that our efforts are even more transparent to the American people and to the world.
These are just merely words and will not on their own satisfy civil libertarians and others troubled by the drone strikes (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/02/obama-targeted-killing-white-paper-drone-strikes). But this is certainly not a sentiment that the Bush-Cheney crowd held. And it is a marker that Obama can be called on in the months ahead.


The emotional highlight of the speech came when the president turned to an issue American politicians have long ducked: gun violence (http://www.motherjones.com/special-reports/2012/12/guns-in-america-mass-shootings). Obama ended the speech with a demand that the Congress take action on proposals he has put forward:

It has been two months since Newtown. I know this is not the first time this country has debated how to reduce gun violence. But this time is different. Overwhelming majorities of Americans—Americans who believe in the Second Amendment—have come together around commonsense reform—like background checks that will make it harder for criminals to get their hands on a gun. Senators of both parties are working together on tough new laws to prevent anyone from buying guns for resale to criminals. Police chiefs are asking our help to get weapons of war and massive ammunition magazines off our streets, because they are tired of being outgunned.
No recent president has focused on gun violence with such passion in a state of the union speech. Obama cited the tragic case of Hadiya Pendleton:

She was 15 years old. She loved Fig Newtons and lip gloss. She was a majorette. She was so good to her friends, they all thought they were her best friend. Just three weeks ago, she was here, in Washington, with her classmates, performing for her country at my inauguration. And a week later, she was shot and killed in a Chicago park after school, just a mile away from my house.
Her parents were in the House chambers. "They deserve a vote," he said. And he went on: "Gabby Giffords deserves a vote. The families of Newtown deserve a vote. The families of Aurora deserve a vote. The families of Oak Creek, and Tucson, and Blacksburg, and the countless other communities ripped open by gun violence—they deserve a simple vote."
It was a powerful moment in a speech that offered a muscular progressivism, one centered firmly on values.
A speech, of course, won't win the tough political and policy fights that Obama will confront in the coming months and years. But with this address, he didn't hold back. And if he only succeeds in placing this nation on the road to universal preschool, that in itself would be a historic accomplishment of fundamental consequence. With this address—which seemed to bore House Speaker John Boehner—the president was not trying to win over recalcitrant Republicans and nudge them toward the compromises they have by and large eschewed. He was trying to lead.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/state-union-sotu-obama-liberal-agenda


So this article is clearly one big Obama circlewank, but I'm still interested in hearing opinions on this board.


Thus far civil liberties and economic policy has eroded severely under Obama. He speaks of creating a social safety net while his bipartisan compromises bring nothing but more austerity, access to abortion has all but vanished under his watch, and the CIA has been given the power to wage shadow wars across the world with killer drones. The only thing he may actually deliver on is tightening gun control, and I'm not too impressed with that in light of everything else. Someone who authorizes the killing of Middle Eastern children with drone strikes should not be ranting about the deaths of children by firearms.


But, maybe he will toughen up and deliver America a "new deal." What do you all think?

ZenTaoist
14th February 2013, 03:48
Obama isn't the worst president overall, but if you look at specific issues like civil liberties an expansion of executive power then he is.

If he were going to offer some kind of new "new deal", he would've done so long before now. I expect more austerity since the capitalists have already driven wages down next to nothing. Now they want the social services privatized.

B5C
14th February 2013, 04:25
But, maybe he will toughen up and deliver America a "new deal." What do you all think?

Obama is trying to be a populist. He is no FDR. He is just a bit left of Bill Clinton. He still thinks that the free market is the only way to fix everything.

KurtFF8
14th February 2013, 05:11
Obama is trying to be a populist. He is no FDR. He is just a bit left of Bill Clinton. He still thinks that the free market is the only way to fix everything.

How is Obama to the Left of Bill Clinton?

Geiseric
14th February 2013, 05:28
Obama is trying to be a populist. He is no FDR. He is just a bit left of Bill Clinton. He still thinks that the free market is the only way to fix everything.

FDR was a fucking bastard, the New Deal was a failure, and his economic intervention was for the military, compounded with profiting off WW2 for fucking years. I used to think he was some social democrat, FDR was the biggest militarist the U.S. has ever had for a president, rivaling Nixon and Lyndon Johnson.

B5C
14th February 2013, 06:44
How is Obama to the Left of Bill Clinton?

If you compare the Presidencies of Clinton & Obama. Clinton is a bit more right on economics. Clinton would never support even moderate version of Keynesian economics. Obama doesn't fully push for free trade as well. It was Clinton who supported and campaign on the defense of marriage act & DADT.

http://www.ontheissues.org/bill_clinton.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/barack_obama.htm

Geiseric
14th February 2013, 07:01
If you compare the Presidencies of Clinton & Obama. Clinton is a bit more right on economics. Clinton would never support even moderate version of Keynesian economics. Obama doesn't fully push for free trade as well. It was Clinton who supported and campaign on the defense of marriage act & DADT.

http://www.ontheissues.org/bill_clinton.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/barack_obama.htm

Clinton did NAFTA, which Obama is continuing with SAFTA and a ton of other things just like it, with free trade even in its name.

Clinton was a warmonger like Obama is. Obama is not at all fighting for gay civil rights, marriage included.

Clinton did support Kenyesianism, he gave huge amounts of money to private businesses to spur the silicon valley boom, and to set up the corn and soy farming we have today.

I refuse to listen to a single word that sociopath president we have says, I haven't listened to a speech of his in years, suffice to say I have literally no respect for him, nor any other bourgeois politician.

B5C
14th February 2013, 08:06
FDR was a fucking bastard, the New Deal was a failure, and his economic intervention was for the military, compounded with profiting off WW2 for fucking years. I used to think he was some social democrat, FDR was the biggest militarist the U.S. has ever had for a president, rivaling Nixon and Lyndon Johnson.

Woah let's fact check there.


the New Deal was a failure

False, the New Deal stopped the depression and slowly grew America's economy. The New Deal gave us Social Security which prevented Elderly poverty. FDR gave MILLIONS of unemployed jobs which build roads, dams, bridges, and planted trees which help prevent future dust bowl.


compounded with profiting off WW2 for fucking years.

Yes, I do agree WWII did help bring the US our of economic hardship through Lend-Lease Act and others, but would be best for the Untied States to do? Stay out of the war and let Fascism continue to spread? Remember, the Lend-Lease Act helped the USSR to fight Germany which helped creation the counter defense.

What do you except Capitalists to do? Not make money from war? Yet, WWII wasn't fully a capitalist plot. It was more of an war of ideology than money. The only time the capitalists gained from WWII was after FDR's Death. The Truman Presidency was more Capitalist than FDR. Truman gave us the Marshall Plan which plot for US Capitalist interests to take a foot hold in Europe and move ideology from Soviets to USA. Also Truman also pushed for the idea end strikes of public workers


the biggest militarist the U.S. has ever had for a president

It was freaking WWII. The whole fucking planet was militaristic.


Clinton did NAFTA, which Obama is continuing with SAFTA and a ton of other things just like it, with free trade even in its name.

He supports free trade as long it's free trade that benefits ONLY America's interests. Obama never campaigned like Clinton has. Clinton's Free Trade vision was for every business on the planet. Hell Obama economic team was full of Wall-Street bankers, but they were protectionists.



Clinton was a warmonger like Obama is.

Clinton & Obama has two different styles of fighting. Clinton loves to use it's military muscle by putting boots on the ground. Obama focuses one using small forces and main use of NSA & CIA secretive warfare. They are all imperalists, but different tactics.


Obama is not at all fighting for gay civil rights, marriage included.

Sorry to defend Obama, but that is one BS statement. Obama called and got the end of DADT which was easier to pass through congress than DOMA. Obama has called for the end of DOMA and even order the Justice Department not to defend DOMA. Right now there are not votes in congress to kill DOMA fully. The only option to kill DOMA is through the Supreme Court. SC has two cases it will have to decide this year on.

Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group of the U.S. House of Representatives v. Gill; Dept. of Health and Human Services v. Massachusetts; Office of Personnel Management v. Golinski; Windsor v. U.S. - About DOMA

Hollingsworth v. Perry - "Prop 8" Case "Whether the Constitution's 14th Amendment guarantee of "equal protection" prevents states from defining marriage as only between one man and one woman."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/02/president-obama-instructs-justice-department-to-stop-defending-defense-of-marriage-act-calls-clinton/
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/us/23military.html?_r=0
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/10/politics/scotus.cases/index.html



Clinton did support Kenyesianism, he gave huge amounts of money to private businesses to spur the silicon valley boom, and to set up the corn and soy farming we have today.

Clinton was nanoscopic compared which Obama's which was just a small hut. FDR was like a freaking mountain. Also I can not fully call subsidizing as kenyesianism. Subsidizing Silicon valley wasn't creating a demand, but a supply. Kenyesianism calls for creating a demand for capital.

Have you taken a economics class?



I refuse to listen to a single word that sociopath president we have says, I haven't listened to a speech of his in years, suffice to say I have literally no respect for him, nor any other bourgeois politician.

Then don't, but clearly fact check before you come here claiming facts which never happen. Also give credit when it's due and stop acting like my Tea Party friends of mine who spew their hatred of Obama without any facts.

Le Socialiste
14th February 2013, 08:25
False, the New Deal stopped the depression and slowly grew America's economy. The New Deal gave us Social Security which prevented Elderly poverty. FDR gave MILLIONS of unemployed jobs which build roads, dams, bridges, and planted trees which help prevent future dust bowl.

This is also the same FDR that made a point of telling Big Business that he'd be the 'best friend they'd ever have'. These policies didn't arise out of a vacuum, they were the result(s) of massive, sustained pressure from below. Workers were engaging in countrywide strikes throughout the 1930s; unionization skyrocketed. Whatever FDR 'gave' wasn't 'given' out of good will or a change of heart. He was facing millions of workers who were increasingly turning to militant means for winning demands. But in the end this crisis couldn't be solved by New Deal economics. In fact it was by and large a dismal failure in terms of 'rebuilding' the economy. Things didn't rebound until the militarization of labor for the war effort and America's emergence as the only major economy not left in ruins (kinda hard for those other capitalists to compete when their economies have just been bombed to shit).


What do you except Capitalists to do? Not make money from war? Yet, WWII wasn't fully a capitalist plot. It was more of an war of ideology than money. The only time the capitalists gained from WWII was after FDR's Death. The Truman Presidency was more Capitalist than FDR. Truman gave us the Marshall Plan which plot for US Capitalist interests to take a foot hold in Europe and move ideology from Soviets to USA. Also Truman also pushed for the idea end strikes of public workers.

Anyone who argues that WWII was a 'capitalist plot' is an idiot, but it was nowhere closer to being a 'war of ideology'. If that were true, the U.S. and others wouldn't have tolerated German nazism, Italian fascism, or Japanese militarism for as long as they had. Capitalism was in a period of crisis, its contradictions having come to a point that was only reconcilable through war. Fascism didn't arise independently of this crisis but as a result of it.

B5C
14th February 2013, 08:48
[quote]This is also the same FDR that made a point of telling Big Business that he'd be the 'best friend they'd ever have'. These policies didn't arise out of a vacuum, they were the result(s) of massive, sustained pressure from below. Workers were engaging in countrywide strikes throughout the 1930s; unionization skyrocketed. Whatever FDR 'gave' wasn't 'given' out of good will or a change of heart. He was facing millions of workers who were increasingly turning to militant means for winning demands. But in the end this crisis couldn't be solved by New Deal economics. In fact it was by and large a dismal failure in terms of 'rebuilding' the economy. Things didn't rebound until the militarization of labor for the war effort and America's emergence as the only major economy not left in ruins (kinda hard for those other capitalists to compete when their economies have just been bombed to shit).

Yet, the New Deals were not a complete fail as Broody Guthrie has said.

Yes, the labor strikes and the rise of socialism did threaten FDR into action. Yet you have to give FDR's New Deals some credit on helping the working class and it did slowly rebuild the economy untill the late 30s with the military build up of WWII.


Anyone who argues that WWII was a 'capitalist plot' is an idiot, but it was nowhere closer to being a 'war of ideology'. If that were true, the U.S. and others wouldn't have tolerated German nazism, Italian fascism, or Japanese militarism for as long as they had. Capitalism was in a period of crisis, its contradictions having come to a point that was only reconcilable through war. Fascism didn't arise independently of this crisis but as a result of it.

I would agree. If Germany didn't invade Poland nor Japan attacked the US. The US would have gotten used to Fascists like Franco's Spain. It became a War of ideology once Germany started it's land grabs in Europe. In Europe, ideology became a strong focal point for war between bourgeoisie democracy, fascism, and Soviet Socialism. The Japanese front was is more close to imperialist land grab for capital.

TheRedAnarchist23
14th February 2013, 09:37
I heard that the goal of american presidents is making America a great country. That sounds incredibly fascist to me.

Sinister Cultural Marxist
14th February 2013, 17:14
Well, there are two interesting proposals from a leftist point of view:

(1) nationwide preschool

(2) tying minimum wage to inflation

These two policies pretty clearly have a general social benefit and extends to the working class. Free nationwide preschool as much as anything else is important for working class parents who need to labor during the day but cannot afford to pay for private services. Other than that it is pretty standard pro-market, militarist liberalism


Obama isn't the worst president overall, but if you look at specific issues like civil liberties an expansion of executive power then he is.



FDR threw the Japanese in internment camps, Wilson banned anti-war speech, Lincoln got rid of Habeas Corpus, and every president prior to Lincoln allowed slavery to continue. Depriving marginal people of their civil liberties is kind of one of the jobs of the POTUS.


How is Obama to the Left of Bill Clinton?

I don't like all the left/right reductionism but lets be real, no major 90s Democrat would have politically supported gay rights with only a handful of exceptions, no matter what their personal politics were.


Clinton did NAFTA, which Obama is continuing with SAFTA and a ton of other things just like it, with free trade even in its name.

Clinton was a warmonger like Obama is. Obama is not at all fighting for gay civil rights, marriage included.

Clinton did support Kenyesianism, he gave huge amounts of money to private businesses to spur the silicon valley boom, and to set up the corn and soy farming we have today.


I think Obama's pretty clearly in favor of gay rights in a way in which Bill Clinton would have never been at least publicly in the 90s. It's important to understand the reason *why* that is the case of course - it's not that Obama is a wiser person but because it is more politically expedient.

As for the other things you're kind of right - the FTAs being negotiated are agreements between the broader American ruling class and that of a foreign country so those FTAs are being passed regardless of who is president (Obama actually campaigned against them in 2008 but reversed course after elected). There's no FTA in the works that is as big or important as NAFTA was however.



I refuse to listen to a single word that sociopath president we have says, I haven't listened to a speech of his in years, suffice to say I have literally no respect for him, nor any other bourgeois politician.I don't think you can make broad moral condemnations of politicians when it's the whole bourgeois system which is sociopathic. Most Americans support policies at least as "sociopathic". It's the system which is absurd. I'm sure Obama is great to his kids and loves his wife, bourgeois politicians aren't "Sociopaths" they're just people whose job it is to make morally dubious decisions to preserve their system.


I heard that the goal of american presidents is making America a great country. That sounds incredibly fascist to me.

If jingoism & fascism were the same thing, every leader in the world would be a fascist.

KurtFF8
15th February 2013, 15:15
I don't like all the left/right reductionism but lets be real, no major 90s Democrat would have politically supported gay rights with only a handful of exceptions, no matter what their personal politics were.

Fair enough on that one point, however if you are to measure Obama's policies as a whole: he isn't really Left wing even in the context of the Democratic Party. Neither is Clinton of course, considering he's actually part of a grouping within the Democratic Party whose explicit purpose was to move it away from the Left.

Geiseric
15th February 2013, 16:18
[QUOTE=Le Socialiste;2578623]



Yet, the New Deals were not a complete fail as Broody Guthrie has said.

Yes, the labor strikes and the rise of socialism did threaten FDR into action. Yet you have to give FDR's New Deals some credit on helping the working class and it did slowly rebuild the economy untill the late 30s with the military build up of WWII.



I would agree. If Germany didn't invade Poland nor Japan attacked the US. The US would have gotten used to Fascists like Franco's Spain. It became a War of ideology once Germany started it's land grabs in Europe. In Europe, ideology became a strong focal point for war between bourgeoisie democracy, fascism, and Soviet Socialism. The Japanese front was is more close to imperialist land grab for capital.

What a liberal grasp on things, the only reason the U.S. sided with England was because the U.S. was given a load of colonies in the Caribbean, in exchange for England being in massive debt to the U.S. Many American capitalists including GM, Henry Ford and Prescott Bush gave billions of dollars to the Nazis, Franco Spain, and Italy. IMB's CEO said they were "Hedging the bets," regarding if Germany won or lost. Look at Vichy France and you'll see how many foreign capitalists were friendly to the Nazis, serving their own class interests, in direct opposition to the working class, as all bourgeois do.

However the war in the Pacific was obviously an Imperialist war, as was the German war. Fasism is still capitalism you know, most people see WWII as a continuation of, on the part of the goals and interests of the militarist bourgeoisie, as WWI. The fSU had the only legitimate reason to fight, keeping the place from falling back into rule by the Russian emigres.