Why yanks think they are free?

[Domino]

This post/question might seem ridiculous, but I've just always wondered why yanks think they live in a free country. A country where you can't dissagree with the government? Or where you can't have your own political ideals... between many things, I mean that's not all, but I just wonder. I was listening to a stupid song that said something like... "I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free". It made me laugh.

So, I wonder... why?

[Al Creed]

From my understanding, most Flag-waving Americans think they are free, because they are told they are free, and aren't enlightened enough.

Thats just my piece of conjecture and outright guessing :P

[Domino]

Yeah, I mean, they don't ask or question the world, right? Another thing is, I hate the American part. I'm Mexican and I'm an American too. I'm Mexican and I'm a North American aswell! A yank I know told me Mexico is in Central America :blink: Are all of them THAT ignorant? Seriously. No offense to the yank comrades. And does every yank think we [Mexicans] wear sombreros to work, take a donkey to work and don't know what a bloody Wal Mart is?

[Al Creed]

Could be worse.

You could be a blubber-eating, dog-sled riding, hockey-playing Hoser who lives in an Igloo, works as a Lumber Jack, LOVES Anne Murray, puts mayonaise on everything, talks "funny" (eh? Aboot?)And has never seen a snow-less day.

[nezvanova]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 10:36 PM
Could be worse.

You could be a blubber-eating, dog-sled riding, hockey-playing Hoser who lives in an Igloo, works as a Lumber Jack, LOVES Anne Murray, puts mayonaise on everything, talks "funny" (eh? Aboot?)And has never seen a snow-less day.
ahahahaha! I hear that! But yeah, I agree that the yanks think they're free because they're told to be free. "Live free or die" they say...

[RedCeltic]

A yank I know told me Mexico is in Central America Are all of them THAT ignorant? Seriously.

I had an argument about that myself with someone who said that Mexico was part of Centeral America not part of North America. This person went as far as to say that, "North American nations are English speaking nations." Which makes one wonder what Quebec is than.

I haven't met anyone in real life who thought that, although I must admit that I don't go around quizing people on geography. When topics of geography do come up however, I find that most people in the U.S. are fairly ignorant of where places are in the world.

I have two friends who are brothers who were born in Laos and I have found that besides people who are Vitnam war vets... most people don't know where that is and typicly have never heard of it.

As for why they call the United States the "Land of the Free"... it's because it is and if you don't like it you can just go back where you came from! (j/k)

[Fidelbrand]

economically free, psychologically (but unconsciously) prisoned (e.g. consumerism..)

They think to cast a vote is an act of freedom , liberty, autonomy ..oh... or whatever the shit u call it~ but the government can not intervene the free market mechansim to a great extent.. right? :P

[DeadMan]

They beleive they are free because they are told they are free. The American public are cattle of there society, but they beleive they are the farmers.

DeadMan.

[Exploited Class]

I think that the real reason they think they are free is because to admit or think otherwise is one of the following.

A. Treason
B. Anti-American
C. Admiting that the basic foundation of their country is flawed, means that almost everything they believe in, would die for, is wrong.

I think it is C. I think Americans don't want to know that the one thing that they have been told since birth, is the greatest modern civilization ever, is rotten at the core.

It is kind of like telling an alcoholic they are an alcoholic. They go into denial because they don't want to believe or admit the worse.

also

Well here is a country, the best country in the world, the land of opportunity, equality, created in a fight by underdogs against tyranny, saved Europe from the evil Nazis, invented the airplane, lightbulb, insulin, atomic bomb, moon landings, rock and roll...ect..ect and on and on and you wonder why they can't accept the fact that thier country might not represent freedom.

I think the real question is, do they think they are free or do they care?

[Exploited Class]

As far as Americans being stupid about other cultures...

We only know what we see. Almost everything shown to us on TV from other parts of the world is painted pretty bad. I thought that most Mexicans did ride donkeys and wear sombreros, lived without basic water and electricity, dirty and everything 30 years old.

Is that really my fault? I watch Public Television and all the unbiased documentries they produce. It wasn't till I had a friend who was mexican, and from mexico over and on TV they were showing one of these unbiased documentries that he said, "That is the ghettos of Mexico City. They are showing you what is suppose to be all of the city but all they are showing you is ghettos over and over again. It would be like a documentry of all of America but they never left Watts or Compton."

If you say why not travel down and see what is going on. Well why would I want to do that, just about every movie that has Americans going to mexico has been being kidnapped or killed, or they are murderers or drug dealers. The way the country is portrayed to us is that the water is dirty and the people can't wait to rob us. It looks like there is no law and the little bit of law that there is, is just waiting to find a "Rich American" and shake us down for a bribe or throw us in what is portrayed as the worse prison systems in the world.

I hate to say it but we get all our information from 3 amigos or The Mexican. Hollywood, as sad as it is, is our teacher of other cultures. But this is the worse part, it is repeated over and over, the same image, in all the movies we watch.

Then when we say something to a mexican about what we think of their country they tell us we are completely wrong and it is nothing like this. So we have to make a choice, is the 100 movies we have seen all showing the same thing incorrect or is this person just being defensive about their country? Who is right, our great and unbias documentries or this person who probably just doesn't want to admit how bad it really it is?

Do you see the problem with why Americans think poorly with other countries.

[Domino]

Yes, I understand. What do they teach them in school, tough? Same as in movies, I&#39;m taking. Don&#39;t they look on the internet? Don&#39;t they know Mexico City is the biggest city in the world? I understand it, yet I don&#39;t. It&#39;s just frustrating, like many other things, so... <_<

How can a country that has no culture, not learn about the World&#39;s cultures? Is it because it would give the country bad reputation? As RIUS (my fave author/cartoonist) says, the only culture in the U&#036; is the Culture of Terror. They have no culture, nothing but Coca-Cola, hot-dogs, fried chicken, burgers, Disneyland and country music&#33; (cause not even Jazz music is yank, or Rock which comes from the Jazz). What is the point of the media and government by not showing things as they are?

[Rasta Sapian]

America is a free country, but what is the defination of freedom. depending on how you look at freedom, equal rights, commerce, and religios faiths and cultural distinctions, America is free, however it is restrained by its capitalist regime. In turn, this Americanization is spreading all around the world. Is america spreading freedom, or facism to the rest of the world.

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 11:24 PM
This post/question might seem ridiculous, but I&#39;ve just always wondered why yanks think they live in a free country. A country where you can&#39;t dissagree with the government? Or where you can&#39;t have your own political ideals... between many things, I mean that&#39;s not all, but I just wonder. I was listening to a stupid song that said something like... "I&#39;m proud to be an American where at least I know I&#39;m free". It made me laugh.

So, I wonder... why?
I think that&#39;s an exaggeration. I&#39;m live in the US, I disagree with the government all the time. There are plenty of people in the US with their own political ideals, I believe more of the people here are from the US. Despite what some people like to think, this isn&#39;t a Fascist country...yet...

[Domino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 03:58 AM
I think that&#39;s an exaggeration. I&#39;m live in the US, I disagree with the government all the time. There are plenty of people in the US with their own political ideals, I believe more of the people here are from the US. Despite what some people like to think, this isn&#39;t a Fascist country...yet...
I don&#39;t think so... tell me, can you buy a book on communism, Marx, Lenin, Che or Fidel in just any bookshop or corner? Every &#39;American&#39; I know has told me they can&#39;t do that there. I wouldn&#39;t call that freedom.

[kingbee]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 06:44 AM
They beleive they are free because they are told they are free. The American public are cattle of there society, but they beleive they are the farmers.

DeadMan.
good way of putting it.

id also say that they consider the lack of goverment interference in internal affairs (ie health etc) means they are free. maybe free from the goverment, but not from the capitalist system.

[Sabocat]

(cause not even Jazz music is yank, or Rock which comes from the Jazz)

I&#39;m pretty sure Jazz did come from the U&#036;. I could be mistaken though. I was under the impression that Jazz was the only true American music.

http://www.redhotjazz.com/originsarticle.html

I also believe that Rock was mostly influenced by blues not jazz.


I don&#39;t think so... tell me, can you buy a book on communism, Marx, Lenin, Che or Fidel in just any bookshop or corner? Every &#39;American&#39; I know has told me they can&#39;t do that there. I wouldn&#39;t call that freedom.

I don&#39;t know where you get your information. Yes, we can buy these books.

http://www.leftbooks.com/

They also exist as a store in New York City. I have purchased all of my books, Manifesto, Das Kapital, a multitude of Che books etc. I&#39;ve never had any problem procuring any of them either locally or over the internet.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Americans cant think for themselves, they are told what to think, what to read. how to feel/react.

They are sheep. They are brainwashed.


They need GWBush style liberation.

[Exploited Class]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 03:20 AM
I don&#39;t think so... tell me, can you buy a book on communism, Marx, Lenin, Che or Fidel in just any bookshop or corner? Every &#39;American&#39; I know has told me they can&#39;t do that there. I wouldn&#39;t call that freedom.
I might not be able to go into a corporate book store and buy those books. I don&#39;t think it is because they are trying to control people through removing choices, it is because it isn&#39;t very popular or a big saler.

When you think about it, how many people that want to read about communism really want to go to a large corporate book store?

In Portland, we have the largest book store in the world, Powells. They have an aisle of nothing but leftist books.
Every small bookstore I know carries the manifesto and such.

I suppose that one could argue that corporate america and capitalism pushes ideals and silencing opposition through the excuses of
"Lack of Market"
"Cliental"
"Supply and Demand"
"Lack of popularity or intrest by the public."

So that is possible.
But you can still find all the books you are talking about for free at public libraries.

Granted, the FBI are doing sweeps of the libraries and looking at what people are checking out and not telling anybody what they are searching for, or if they are keeping certain questionable reading material on a file with the name of the person that checked it out, for later use.

That is a fear tactic.

They are also trying to create "The System of Total Information Awareness" where every purchase you make by credit card is kept track somehwere on a giant database. That is a fear tactic, since you don&#39;t know exactly what they are searching for, makes one not want to purchase questionable material that might be stuck in database.

[che's long lost daughter]

I think the "gringos" think they are free because it is what ther are forced to believe in...it is what their hollywood movies show them. Those war and asteroid movies where America always saves the world makes them think so. They think that they live better lives than people from other countries because there economy is secured (what, with alll the capitalism going on) and this makes the think they are free. But this security and pseudo-freedom also made them (majority of them, that is) blind to see how millions of people from other nations suffer.

And I agree, Americans don&#39;t have their own culture and majority of them don&#39;t even speak perfect english and are bad in spelling and yeah, terrible in geography too...no offence, American compañeros

[YKTMX]

I think it would be slightly ridicilous and spiteful of us to say that "most" Americans do not enjoy a level of "social Freedom". They DO enjoy religious and political freedoms.

What people on here are talking about cultural and political hegemony where people are discouraged to form their own opinions and philisophies. This is merely a facet of Capitalism, where the illusion of consensus and legitimacy is all imporant.

America IS one of the "freeer" nations on Earth. Of that their can be no doubt.

[Domino]

Originally posted by Disgustapated+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Disgustapated) I&#39;m pretty sure Jazz did come from the U&#036;. I could be mistaken though. I was under the impression that Jazz was the only true American music. [/b]

Nope, Jazz is 100% afro.


YouKnowTheyMurderedX
America IS one of the "freeer" nations on Earth. Of that their can be no doubt.



Good post, Exploited Class.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

The majority of yankees ive come accross know very little about world geography.


I can still hear the shrill annoying voice saying "France? is that in Germany?"


Oh the nightmares I still have......

[Domino]

Aghh&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; I can&#39;t edit my last post, so I&#39;m posting it again. Sorry.


Originally posted by Disgustapated+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Disgustapated)I&#39;m pretty sure Jazz did come from the U&#036;.[/b]

Nope, Jazz is 100% afro.



Disgustapated
America IS one of the freeer nations on Earth. Of that their can be no doubt.

Now THAT is ridiculous.



Good post, Exploited Class. Comrade Robert, I hear you... how can the population of such an ignorant country think they are the best shite on the planet when they don&#39;t know a thing beyond their borthers. *shakes head*

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I know, its hard to put it into words, the ignorance on such a scale.

[Sabocat]

Nope, Jazz is 100% afro.


QUOTE (Disgustapated)
America IS one of the freeer nations on Earth. Of that their can be no doubt.


Now THAT is ridiculous.



First of all, I wasn&#39;t the one that said America is one of the freeer nation on Earth. Please remove my name from that quote in your post.

Do you have any links that I can read showing that Jazz came out of Africa? I&#39;d be curious to read it.

[Sabocat]

I can still hear the shrill annoying voice saying "France? is that in Germany?"


LOL....sure you do. :lol: :lol:

[ComradeRobertRiley]

History Of Jazz (http://www.micro-opt.com/history_main.htm)


It says that slaves from Africa brought Jazz over from Africa to America

[Intifada]

americans are pumped with false ideas and fear everyday from the media, politicians etc. they say that terrorists are likely to strike every single day. hollywood movies are always showing how great and free america is. americans are hypnotised. most of them are willing to believe anything the whitehouse says.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 11:24 PM

I can still hear the shrill annoying voice saying "France? is that in Germany?"


LOL....sure you do. :lol: :lol:
She was probably from the east coast. I hear they are all demented over there.

Is it true?

At least you know where Jazz comes from now (if the website is true)

[Sabocat]

It says that slaves from Africa brought Jazz over from Africa to America

Actually it looks like they brought the foundations and roots of jazz to America. I still suggest that the first evidence of actual Jazz is still America. Thanks for the link. Good reading.


She was probably from the east coast. I hear they are all demented over there.

Is it true?

Yes, it&#39;s a well known fact that everyone here on the East Coast, especially the Northeast Coast are quite insane. I believe it&#39;s the weather. ;)

[YKTMX]

America IS one of the freeer nations on Earth. Of that their can be no doubt

Now THAT is ridiculous

Would you like to back that up or are you just full of hot air?

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by tetelives+Jan 2 2004, 05:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tetelives @ Jan 2 2004, 05:20 AM)
[email protected] 2 2004, 03:58 AM
I think that&#39;s an exaggeration. I&#39;m live in the US, I disagree with the government all the time. There are plenty of people in the US with their own political ideals, I believe more of the people here are from the US. Despite what some people like to think, this isn&#39;t a Fascist country...yet...
I don&#39;t think so... tell me, can you buy a book on communism, Marx, Lenin, Che or Fidel in just any bookshop or corner? Every &#39;American&#39; I know has told me they can&#39;t do that there. I wouldn&#39;t call that freedom. [/b]
I&#39;ve had no problem getting any getting any book I&#39;ve wanted. That&#39;s one of the silliest things I&#39;ve ever heard. The people you have spoken too either don&#39;t know how to find a book, or they go to really shitty bookstores. Even a small bookstore that doesn&#39;t carry that kind of stuff are usually happy to order it for you if you ask.

[Soviet power supreme]

The majority of yankees ive come accross know very little about world geography.

Well yeah but they know helluva better the North-American continent.Most of the Europeans can name only couple states and put them into right place such as me.I dont know here Idaho is for example but I know every European,Asian,South-American countries.

[Domino]

Originally posted by Disgustapated+Jan 2 2004, 03:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Disgustapated @ Jan 2 2004, 03:21 PM) First of all, I wasn&#39;t the one that said America is one of the freeer nation on Earth. Please remove my name from that quote in your post. [/b]
:lol: I know, sorry... the forum didn&#39;t let me edit. :huh: Here, here now...


YouKnowTheyMurderedX
America IS one of the freeer nations on Earth. Of that their can be no doubt.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I&#39;m american and I know I&#39;m not free

[JustSoul]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 04:24 AM


So, I wonder... why?
Because they are one of the most free nations in the world.

Note Iam not from the USA .

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by Soviet power [email protected] 3 2004, 02:22 AM

The majority of yankees ive come accross know very little about world geography.

Well yeah but they know helluva better the North-American continent.Most of the Europeans can name only couple states and put them into right place such as me.I dont know here Idaho is for example but I know every European,Asian,South-American countries.
thats inside the 1 country, thats liek asking a yankee what the counties of England are or regions of France.

Some yanks dont even know the capital city let alone what the regions are and where they are.

I know most of (If not all) of the states names and where most of the major cities are, (there on my list of where to send the cruise missiles) :D :ph34r:


:hammer:


P.S. im not sticking up for Europeans as I have met some stupid ones as well and im not exactly the bright spark of Europe my self&#33; LOL

[Ferdinand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 01:36 PM
thats inside the 1 country, thats liek asking a yankee what the counties of England are or regions of France.
With the exception that quite a few states are just as large as other countries. :) I always figured that gegraphy was based on land, not politics. Am a yank and I know a fair amount of geography; and on top of that if there&#39;s something I don&#39;t know, I know how I could find out.

There&#39;s a bit of a difference between knowing the states&#39; names and being able to locate them on a map. If someone were to give you an unlabelled map with cities and states, how well would you be able to fare then?

EDIT: Grammar

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by Ferdinand+Jan 3 2004, 10:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ferdinand @ Jan 3 2004, 10:55 PM)
[email protected] 3 2004, 01:36 PM
thats inside the 1 country, thats liek asking a yankee what the counties of England are or regions of France.
With the exception that quite a few states are just as large as other countries. :) I always figured that gegraphy was based on land, not politics. Am a yank and I know a fair amount of geography; and on top of that if there&#39;s something I don&#39;t know, I know how I could find out.

There&#39;s a bit of a difference between knowing the states&#39; names and being able to locate them on a map. If someone were to give you an unlabelled map with cities and states, how well would you be able to fare then?

EDIT: Grammar [/b]
We are talking about on land and not about politics.


And on the map I take it you mean of the U&#036;A?

If so id get a few, id bet more than the average yank (If the map given to the yank was say of England).

[Nny]

Its funny how the US. portrays every other country worse off than them in television programs. Even when documenting places like France and England, they always have to include, at the end, an innacurate picture of sociaty, slightly lower then the US&#39;s, while in programs featuring US cities, New York, Los Angeles, They only show the sparkling water and &#39;amazing&#39; sky-scrapers expecting everyone to accept false information. Everything must be pretty to please the public.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Originally posted by ComradeRobertRiley+Jan 3 2004, 01:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ComradeRobertRiley @ Jan 3 2004, 01:36 PM)
Soviet power [email protected] 3 2004, 02:22 AM

The majority of yankees ive come accross know very little about world geography.

Well yeah but they know helluva better the North-American continent.Most of the Europeans can name only couple states and put them into right place such as me.I dont know here Idaho is for example but I know every European,Asian,South-American countries.
thats inside the 1 country, thats liek asking a yankee what the counties of England are or regions of France.

Some yanks dont even know the capital city let alone what the regions are and where they are.

I know most of (If not all) of the states names and where most of the major cities are, (there on my list of where to send the cruise missiles) :D :ph34r:


:hammer:


P.S. im not sticking up for Europeans as I have met some stupid ones as well and im not exactly the bright spark of Europe my self&#33; LOL [/b]
not all americans are dumb you know

[ComradeRobertRiley]

i never said they were Petey

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

just know we arent as a matter of fact some of us are too smart smart enough to know how forge elections

[Hitman47]

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."


---Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


:D :P :rolleyes:

[ComradeRobertRiley]

That sums up alot of the yanks in OI - hitman

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

not all

[left for dead]

I live in the United States, but I was born in Mexico. My parents migrated here shortly before the 1995 Mexican economic crisis. First, there is a difference between economic "freedom" and general freedom. I can not help but romanticize about going to the corner shop at 1 A.M. and buying a pack of cigarrettes while living in the United States(I&#39;m seventeen and don&#39;t quite look my age) without being asked for an ID or harrassed by the cops(fuck curfews). In Mexico, I could do that. My friends and I could be out at 1 A.M. playing street soccer without anyone bothering us, except the occasional car driving by, or the occasional broken window.

Now, after 10 years of the NAFTA treaty, my hometown is gradually becoming another Americanized(blah, I hate using the term "American" for the United Statesians) border-cityesque dump. There are about 10 maquiladoras(American-owned factories) and there are plans for opening 20 more. Sure, they bring jobs, but my aunt has told me that workers are so neglected, that it is a real nightmare working in one(at least in a textile maquiladora) since sometimes not even masks are given to the employees while cotton, linen, and all sort of other material&#39;s fibers are floating around unventilated work areas.

I am happy to say that my parents did not have to slave themselves by having to go work at a pesticide-ridden lettuce farm in Central Valley, but, they are still wage-slaves, being fed lies while glued to the tube. At least in Mexico, even though economic prosperity or economic freedom is much smaller than in the United States, we have a beautiful culture and society that somehow knows that freedom combined with education fruits self-control.

Now, removing those corrupt narco-politicans in the Government, is, another fight.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

my dad came from mexico when he was about 6 so of course I was born here. But when I&#39;m 18 I&#39;m going down to mexico :ph34r:

[left for dead]

Cool, do you know the city or state he came from? Mexico is a great place, sadly it&#39;s being fucked over by the gringos and corrupt politicans.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

mexico df

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

but I&#39;m still 3/4 white

[left for dead]

3/4? How does that work? I&#39;m about 1/10 Chinese.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

well my dads dad is an anglo and somehow ended up in mexico met my abuelita and they hadmy dad and his siblings
they moved to the us my dad grew up and married my mom

[Coffee]

I don&#39;t know if this was said before... But let me say it anyways:

Americans believe that they are free because they are constantly told that they are free. From the time that they&#39;re born, to the time that they die. They are lied to.

What did the republicans spew during the Iraqi war? They said "You can disagree with this war, because you have that right in this country. The Iraqis do not."

Such a lie. A big lie. I&#39;ve heard better lines from Britney Spears.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 02:31 AM
just know we arent as a matter of fact some of us are too smart smart enough to know how forge elections
and to vote in retards like Arnie Swastika (or however you spell his sirname)

[Commie Girl]

First of all, they USers are not Americans, because if you live in North America, you are American....I am Canadian (very very proudly) and also American, same if you are Mexican, you are also American. The culture of fear in the US is spreading to other parts of the world, except what we fear is Dubya and his gang killing us all....time for a regime change in the poor old US of A. Free? Sure. When you voice an opinion which happens to be against government policy and told that to do so is "un-american" that is the furthest definition of freedom I have heard....Michael Moore? Remember him? Dixie Chicks? I mean, please, they express an opinion, which is also factual, and people are running around breaking Dixie Chick albums, etc....and if you people want to run around and import your version of democracy, don&#39;t bother....now as far as the Rest of the World (ROTW) is concerned, you have a Pretender in Washington, bent on massive world-wide destruction....Culture of Fear? Yes. War on Terrorism? Not likely, until Bush and gang are also added to that terrorist list.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I dont understand how someone can be proud of their country, its just land :huh:

[revoevo]

I&#39;m an "American" (United States of, at least), born and raised. I believe the reason so many of us (I&#39;d rather not be included... but oh well) think we are free is because of either a)sheer ignorance, b)too lazy and rich, c)those who realize we are less than free are either silenced by the government or are not in large enough numbers to count.
We have social freedom - religious freedom, and freedom of speech, and the freedom to make money and a better life for ourseleves, in theory. The uneducated soak up hollywood propaganda like sponges, the poor live on the dream of being rich, the rich are free enough for all they care.
As for those of us who know we&#39;re not free, we&#39;ve been silenced, either because of unfair laws or the simple fact that we are not in the majority. Or at least we&#39;re not backed by a rich coporation.
If we could salvage the United States, it would be through revolution. But everyone in this country is either dumb and easily influenced, poor and hopeful in the capitalist system, rich and happy with it that way, or just not heard.

[revoevo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 07:14 PM
I dont understand how someone can be proud of their country, its just land :huh:
You can be proud of your country for its politics, achievements, etc. When people say they are proud of their country they don&#39;t mean it literally as in referring to the land, though I assume you know this. <_<

[ComradeRobertRiley]

yes i know that

[ComradeRed]

They believe they&#39;re free because "america - land of the free", im in the U&#036; and i know that i m as free as a slave. It&#39;s like 1984 "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. ", that applies here: how do i know the war in iraq is still happening, or saddams really caught? The patriot act put us in slavery and we are strong because we ask not "why" but rather chastise those who do.

[redfront]

Most americans are raised in the believe that there country is the center of the universe, that they should only do what&#39;s good for themself and so on.
They are told that communism is the roots of all evil, and they believe in that blindly without asking any questions (again it&#39;s most of them). It&#39;s the same thing that happens when they are told that they are free. They don&#39;t ask questions like &#39;&#39;How can i have political freedom, when there&#39;s only 2 big parties (one more worse than the other)?&#39;&#39;, or &#39;&#39;am i really free when i know that thousands of children die every day from starvation, while i have more food than i can eat?&#39;&#39;.

Of cause it&#39;s not every one who behave like this, but i think it could be one of the reasons why some are so ignorant. They don&#39;t ask any questions.

[RedAnarchist]

If America is not free, then we must invade and topple the tyrant




....which is of course just a distraction whilst we steal all the oil <_<

[redfront]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 12:57 PM
If America is not free, then we must invade and topple the tyrant




....which is of course just a distraction whilst we steal all the oil <_<
Lol, if you fight dragons long enough, you become a dragon youself :D

[Valishin]

A country where you can&#39;t dissagree with the government?
Who says you can&#39;t dissagree with the government? What law is there forbidding it? You can&#39;t break the law in protest that is true, but that is not preventing you from disagreeing. Of course keep in mind, yes you have the right to disagree but like wise others have the right to disagree with you.

I think some of you are misunderstanding something though. When american&#39;s say they are in a free country that does not exclude other countries from being free as well. BUT american&#39;s view themselves as more free because american society and laws embrace individiualism more so than other nations. And in the minds of americans the more freedom you have as an individual the more free you are. This applies to social as well as economic issues. It is all about priorites. Americans prioritize the individual more than anything else. As such the more freedom of choice is allowed for the individual then in thier viewpoint the more free the nation.




To americans it is about what the law denies and does not deny. Technically speaking they are not slaves to consumerism because they are not forced to participate. They choose to do so because it is the better of choice in their opinion but it is not forced upon them.

That is what defines freedom for americans. What is forced upon them and what is not.

[QUOTE]As far as Americans being stupid about other cultures...
Keep in mind also that the US is the one nation that is large enough and diverse enough to experience every culture, every climate, and every activity on the face of the earth without having to leave the US territory unless of course you county having to fly to one of the two non-conus states and without having to deal with language barrier. Europeans travel from country to country like americans travel from state to state. It is roughly the same distance and costs but without as many hassles for the americans to do so. That is why so many don&#39;t learn about other nations. Because quite frankly there is little reason to go there except for historical sites and some unique occurances. Not saying traveling abroad is bad, just that to most american&#39;s it isn&#39;t cost effective or worth the hassles. By the way this is also why americans don&#39;t care about geography. Anywhere they will go they can buy a map that is laybeled for a couple dollars. As such it seems like a rather usless subject unless it is directly applicable to your job. At which point you learn it while training for that job.


I don&#39;t think so... tell me, can you buy a book on communism, Marx, Lenin, Che or Fidel in just any bookshop or corner?
Yes you can. That of course assumes that the book your looking for is popular enough to be worth stocking on the shelves. Otherwise you might have to have it special ordered. You do however have the option of going to the library where you can check them out for free and unless it is a rare book you have a pretty decent chance of finding it in at least one of the libraries in your area if not most of them.


Americans cant think for themselves, they are told what to think, what to read. how to feel/react.
Is it that they can&#39;t think for themselves or that they have priorities that different from yours?

Contrary to what many like to claim americans are quite aware of what is going on. They are aware that they are being told half truths by politicians and companies. They act accordingly based on that fact. I do have to wonder, does everyone else realize that their politicians are lieing to them as well? At least americans are honest enough to realize that what they are being told isn&#39;t the whole story. Of course Americans do have a problem with the fact that while they know they are being misled many of them really don&#39;t care either. I guess that is what happens when living standards are high enough that being in poverity means that you can&#39;t eat out as often and your family might only have 1 car, 2 tvs, 1 vcr, microwave and either a 2 year old computer or a video game system. Not to mention the bills are paid and there is food in the fridge. It is easy to just assume everything is going well when that is what you see for even the worst off who are willing to at least try to earn a living. Sure you see an occasional homeless person, but then a mile down the road you might pass the homeless shelter and see open beds. It is very hard to think something is wrong when that is the worst you see day to day. And for the major majority most don&#39;t even see anything that bad on most days.


I&#39;m american and I know I&#39;m not free
What are you legally denied to do that you think you should be able to do?


thats inside the 1 country, thats liek asking a yankee what the counties of England are or regions of France
Your forgetting that the US is the equivilant of Europe not the equivilant of a single european nation.


Sure, they bring jobs, but my aunt has told me that workers are so neglected, that it is a real nightmare working in one(at least in a textile maquiladora) since sometimes not even masks are given to the employees while cotton, linen, and all sort of other material&#39;s fibers are floating around unventilated work areas.
So why are those jobs not going unfilled?

[(*]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 03:00 AM
...american&#39;s view themselves as more free because american society and laws embrace individiualism more so than other nations...

...It is all about priorites. Americans prioritize the individual more than anything else. As such the more freedom of choice is allowed for the individual then in thier viewpoint the more free the nation....



What if a person wants to smoke marijuana? Pay for sex? or kill themselves because they are terminally ill? Maybe a person is homosexual and wishes to marry their partner. What should they do?

Hong Kong and Singapore both have more economic freedoms than America. For several years now.

[Valishin]

What if a person wants to smoke marijuana?
That is one many americans are working to get fixed. Noone sa


Pay for sex?
Go to Navada. Prostitution is not outlawed by federal law that is completely a state issue.


kill themselves because they are terminally ill?
While it is "technically" illegal it isn&#39;t like they can stop you. And next of kin can make the choice to pull the plug if your not in a comma or surviving of a machine. But I do agree that is one of those that needs to come off the law books.


Maybe a person is homosexual and wishes to marry their partner. What should they do?
There is nothing preventing them from doing so.


Hong Kong and Singapore both have more economic freedoms than America. For several years now.
Yet neither have the social freedoms to go along with economic freedoms. It isn&#39;t about one or the other it is about having them all or as many as possible.

I am not saying the US is the better or worse than anyone else. Because quite frankly that would be a loaded statement. Because better/worse is completely dependent upon someone&#39;s priorities. Americans prioritize individiualism more than most. As such they think they are more free because in their minds freedom of choice for the individual is the highest priority. While euro&#39;s on the other hand might view the interdependance of society as a higher priority that helps define their priorities. Neither is better or worse than the other.