Pope resigns

[piet11111]

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/11/world/europe/pope-benedict-resignation/


Rome (CNN) -- Pope Benedict will resign on February 28, his spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told CNN Monday.
Lombardi did not give a reason for the resignation.
Benedict, the 265th pope, is the sixth German to serve as pope and the first since the 11th century. He has led church after the third-longest papacy in church history and during a time in which the church is declining in his native Europe but expanding in Africa and Latin America.
So the ratman will resign ?

My money is that he is under investigation for molesting children or covering for people who did that.

[Thirsty Crow]

I needed to check what day it is. Nope, not anywhere near April that's for sure.
Maybe the Catholic community has its own fools' day, but in February. Anyway, it'd be interesting to see the real reasons behind the resignation.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Is there anyone on the site that has a decent grasp of some of the political issues going on in and with the church these days? I think that would be an interesting general topic since I really have no sense of how the church fits into larger international politics these days. I have read things about local or specific policies and actions and whatnot, but never had a broader sense of the church politically in modern times.

[Sasha]

While I hope for some juicy scandal, looking at how vast he deteriorated from evil dark Sith lord to "where am I and what am I doing here" bunny in the headlights I think its just fast onsetting Alzheimer's. Which is also implied in the statement just released.

[Q]

Dutch news agency NOS reports that (http://nos.nl/artikel/472832-paus-kondigt-terugtreden-aan.html) he "no longer has the strength to carry on in this function", which is a somewhat odd reason as one would expect all popes having that issue at some point.

Also, this is the first resignation since the 15th century, lol.

[Sasha]

Is there anyone on the site that has a decent grasp of some of the political issues going on in and with the church these days? I think that would be an interesting general topic since I really have no sense of how the church fits into larger international politics these days. I have read things about local or specific policies and actions and whatnot, but never had a broader sense of the church politically in modern times.

Their power and influence in the west is a mere shadow from what it used to but you can't overestimate how much influence and direct tangible power the church still has in Africa and south America
1 billion ppl who think that the church is a direct unfailable representation of god himself backed with immense riches and all the geo-pollitical influence that having a recognized country brings is a lot of power...

[Thelonious]

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/11/world/europe/pope-benedict-resignation/

So the ratman will resign ?

My money is that he is under investigation for molesting children or covering for people who did that.

That was my thought too. Or maybe his conscience got the best of him. But then I realized that his conscience should have got the best of him long before he became the Pope.

Here in Newark, NJ the archdiocese just promoted a pedophile priest. I am sure Benedict knew about that.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/02/03/NJ-archdiocese-criticized-for-promotion/UPI-74721359918478/

The Pope should have been arrested a long time ago for being the head of an international pedophile ring.

[Sentinel]

Dutch news agency NOS reports that (http://nos.nl/artikel/472832-paus-kondigt-terugtreden-aan.html) he "no longer has the strength to carry on in this function", which is a somewhat odd reason as one would expect all popes having that issue at some point.

Also, this is the first resignation since the 15th century, lol.

Indeed, I was under the impression they weren't allowed to do it. This is very strange indeed.

I just brought these news to my mother, whose first thought was: 'maybe he just lost his faith in god?' That would be the best thing ever, an ex pope turning to a new Richard Dawkins, writing a bunch of revealing books about the church's inner circle etc. :grin:

But of course it's most likely the alzheimer explanation. Maybe that in combination with some attempt by the catholic church to appear more modern, by allowing the popes to retire when they get too old and weak to do their 'job' properly anymore.

[IrishWorker]

Nothing to do with this then.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/71440_2824451267941_670733799_n.jpg

[Sasha]

Indeed, I was under the impression they weren't allowed to do it. This is very strange indeed.

I just brought these news to my mother, whose first thought was: 'maybe he just lost his faith in god?' That would be the best thing ever, an ex pope turning to a new Richard Dawkins, writing a bunch of revealing books about the church's inner circle etc. :grin:

But of course it's most likely the alzheimer explanation. Maybe that in combination with some attempt by the catholic church to appear more modern, by allowing the popes to retire when they get too old and weak to do their 'job' properly anymore.


i just read an article that he already speculated on this in his book in 2010 saying that a pope not only has the right to step down if he is mentally and physically incapable to perform his duties but is even obligated to do so (the state of the pope before this one in the last years before his death was of course a bit embarrassing), he was also always considered an "inbetween-pope" due to his high age, interesting is though that his close friend Max Seckler (a german theologist) just said that "the pope had great difficulty with the intrigues inside the Vatican" so maybe more is up than Alzheimer's after all. The leaked documents by the pope's butler already indicated a power struggle has been playing out for a while; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatileaks_scandal

[soso17]

Depending who succeeds him, this could set up a modern-day pope-antipope crisis. How awesome would that be?

I hope the palace in Avignon is still available! :)

[Q]

Also, this is the first resignation since the 15th century, lol.

To add on that, this is the first voluntary resignation since 1294, when Coelestinus V resigned. Gregory XII resigned in 1417 under heavy pressure during the schism.

That is how often this happens ;)

[Princess Luna]

At least now he will be remembered for something! Resigning is his ticket off the obscurity train, even if only for a footnote

[piet11111]

That was my thought too. Or maybe his conscience got the best of him. But then I realized that his conscience should have got the best of him long before he became the Pope.

Seeing how christianity believes in 3 hail mary's and all your sins are forgiven having a bad conscience is no problem for them.
After all Jesus died for "our" sins to be forgiven :D (no wonder so many bad people find religion after being caught.)

[KurtFF8]

Nothing to do with this then.

Probably not, this was known during his nomination and whatnot.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Dutch news agency NOS reports that (http://nos.nl/artikel/472832-paus-kondigt-terugtreden-aan.html) he "no longer has the strength to carry on in this function", which is a somewhat odd reason as one would expect all popes having that issue at some point.

Also, this is the first resignation since the 15th century, lol.

Shouldn't Jesus help him?

[sixdollarchampagne]

He's 85, he had to watch as his predecessor, John Paul II, struggled, quite publicly, with debilitating illness for years, and he previously wrote that a Pope has the right to resign, under some circumstances, so he's being consistent.

It is pretty clear, from the biography I read, that Benedict XVI was never a supporter of the Nazi regime (something I wondered about at one time). He was enrolled in the Hitler-Jugend by a relative, and then he was drafted into the German army. To his credit, he deserted from the German army before Germany capitulated, in 1945; he just left his unit and started walking home, which was a pretty gutsy act, since the Germans shot deserters. Also to his credit, in 2006, "he said that violence in the name of religion was contrary to God’s nature and to reason" (from today's New York Times).

EDIT: The other reason that calling Benedict XVI a Nazi sympathizer is nonsense is the following: His father was a policeman in Bavaria, who lost his job when the Nazis took over the government, since Pope Benedict's father was opposed to the Nazis. So the Pope has a family reason, close to his heart, undoubtedly, for disliking the fascists that took over Germany in 1933.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Dutch news agency NOS reports that (http://nos.nl/artikel/472832-paus-kondigt-terugtreden-aan.html) he "no longer has the strength to carry on in this function", which is a somewhat odd reason as one would expect all popes having that issue at some point.

Also, this is the first resignation since the 15th century, lol.

Yeah, health reasons. At least this might popularize the idea of popes resigning.

[Sasha]

fHRDfut2Vx0

[human strike]

Inanimate Carbon Rod for Pope!

[Black_Rose]

Their power and influence in the west is a mere shadow from what it used to but you can't overestimate how much influence and direct tangible power the church still has in Africa and south America
1 billion ppl who think that the church is a direct unfailable representation of god himself backed with immense riches and all the geo-pollitical influence that having a recognized country brings is a lot of power...

I don't think the Church has much geopolitical influence anymore; I think most of its influence has been eroded due to the consequences of the Reformation and the Thirty Years War.

For instance, the Church IIRC opposed the Second Iraq War, but the US invaded anymore. The US has the most geopolitical power now.

I also acknowledge criticisms of the Church on how it suppressed liberation theology.


Seeing how christianity believes in 3 hail mary's and all your sins are forgiven having a bad conscience is no problem for them.
After all Jesus died for "our" sins to be forgiven :D (no wonder so many bad people find religion after being caught.)

Uttering a perfunctory and formulaic prayer does not merit one forgiveness. In a homily on December 9th (yes I remember the date), the Priest (a fairly "liberal" one) used the term "metanoia" (a Greek term roughly meaning change of heart) indicating that true repentance involves one to abandon their former sins (or at least valiantly struggle against our sinful propensities if our will cannot surmount our vices.)

[sixdollarchampagne]

As someone who watched John Paul II struggle to fulfill the responsibilities of his office during the final years of his life (when he was very ill, and I often thought, "Why don't they simply let the poor man retire?"), I am delighted with the current Pope's decision, just announced, because it will probably turn into a precedent for future Pontiffs. I don't expect anyone on this list to cut Benedict XVI, or the Catholic Church, any slack (and I certainly don't share the Pope's political views), but, in human terms, as someone just past retirement age, I can understand.

EDIT: Something else that I remember from the biography of Benedict XVI is that his father, a police officer in Bavaria, lost his job when the Nazis took over the German government. So Benedict XVI never was a supporter of the Nazis, for personal, family reasons as well.

[feeLtheLove]

Weren't they forced to join Hitler youth?

[Sasha]

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/21/pope-retired-amid-gay-bishop-blackmail-inquiry

[Sasha]

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/21/pope-retired-amid-gay-bishop-blackmail-inquiry

the vatican came out (pun intended) to deny the gay-bishop-orgy-ring-blackmail-secret-files-reason-for-pope-stepping-down story^: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/02/23/vatican-denies-pope-toppling-gay-sex-scandal
although i'm not really sure that this even counts as an denial;


The Vatican's chief spokesperson has criticised the media for reporting "misinformation" about the Church.
Father Federico Lombardi said some were trying to profit from a time of disorientation in the Catholic Church to spread "gossip" and "slander"..."Whoever has money, sex and power at the forefront of their mind sees the world through these parameters and cannot see beyond, even when looking at the Church," he said.
"Their view cannot look to the heights or go in-depth to understand the spiritual dimensions and motivations of existence," he added.

[Willin']

Pope will resign because all the cardinals have been having gay orgies.

Source: news.yahoo.com/did-secret-vatican-report-gay-sex-blackmail-bring-160458902.html