My right-wing teacher says that anarcho-communism can't exist?

[Comrade Nasser]

He call's it an "oxymoron" and that they are the opposites of each other and that if they were really communist and anarchist that these 2 groups would "absolutely despise" each other. I try to explain to them that the reason these 2 groups work with each other is to fight capitalism, y'know the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". But he will have none of it, he says if you were really an anarchist you would "hate communism" but I don't. Can you guys clear this up for me? Also I know this teacher is a dunce he voted for Mitt Romney 0_0

[Narcissus]

Communism isn't necessarily authoritarian.

[Questionable]

Historically speaking communists and anarchists have worked alongside each other before and during the revolution, even if they came to oppose each other afterwards.

[DasFapital]

A stateless society is the end goal of communism. The whole idea of communism is that class antagonisms will disappear and people will actually have access to the fruits of their labor instead of having it line the pockets of some asshole capitalist. What can be more libertarian than that?

[Comrade Nasser]

A stateless society is the end goal of communism. The whole idea of communism is that class antagonisms will disappear and people will actually have access to the fruits of their labor instead of having it line the pockets of some asshole capitalist. What can be more libertarian than that?

Try explaining this to a hardline conservative asshole who thinks Leon Trotsky was an evil man and that he deserved to die :crying: And these teachers always inject their politics into what they teach and pretty much brainwash these kids, hence the term "The Spoonfed Generation". Anyways my main question, how can I explain to him that communists an anarchists are not enemies?

[Skyhilist]

Communism = classless
Anarchism = stateless
Anarcho-communism = stateless + classless
I see no contradiction.

[Astarte]

Honestly, you shouldn't really pay him much attention. Just give him the answers he wants to hear on tests and essays and move on, especially if you already know he is a dunce as you put it. But you can mention that communists and anarcho-communists do have the same common goal of collectivizing property, and also do both ultimately believe in ending classes and the state. Do some reading - research the Spanish Civil War, you will find out a lot on alliances between Marxism and anarcho-communism.

[Comrade Nasser]

Honestly, you shouldn't really pay him much attention. Just give him the answers he wants to hear on tests and essays and move on, especially if you already know he is a dunce as you put it. But you can mention that communists and anarcho-communists do have the same common goal of collectivizing property, and also do both ultimately believe in ending classes and the state. Do some reading - research the Spanish Civil War, you will find out a lot on alliances between Marxism and anarcho-communism.

Thank you. I always do give him the answers he wants but I wanted to explain to him how they can work together.

[Winkers Fons]

Of course if you tell him that communism is a classless and stateless society he will give you the old "human nature" argument and tell you that it is good in theory but it can never actually work and will always devolve into authoritarianism. My suggestion is to point out the various times in history that communists and anarchists have worked together. Also, find some basic definitions from wikipedia and show him how similar the two concepts are in theory. I assume he has never really read anything about anarchist theory and thinks that anarchism is nothing more than chaos.

[Comrade Nasser]

Of course if you tell him that communism is a classless and stateless society he will give you the old "human nature" argument and tell you that it is good in theory but it can never actually work and will always devolve into authoritarianism. My suggestion is to point out the various times in history that communists and anarchists have worked together. Also, find some basic definitions from wikipedia and show him how similar the two concepts are in theory. I assume he has never really read anything about anarchist theory and thinks that anarchism is nothing more than chaos.

Your exactly right. He always says "Communism looks good on paper, but always fails in practice." And if you try to argue it he will just steer the topic in the direction he want's. And yes, he believes that anarchy is nothing more than chaos. This how he put it "Anarchy basically means you litter, and write dumb red A's all over your clothing." :cursing:

[Comrade #138672]

Communism isn't necessarily authoritarian.Indeed. In fact, Communism can not be authoritarian by its very definition.

[redblood_blackflag]

He call's it an "oxymoron" and that they are the opposites of each other and that if they were really communist and anarchist that these 2 groups would "absolutely despise" each other. I try to explain to them that the reason these 2 groups work with each other is to fight capitalism, y'know the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". But he will have none of it, he says if you were really an anarchist you would "hate communism" but I don't. Can you guys clear this up for me? Also I know this teacher is a dunce he voted for Mitt Romney 0_0

If "communism" at any time calls for or requires a state, then it is inconsistent with anarchism.
Marx called for various state monopolies in the communist manifesto.
This is obviously inconsistent with anarchism, regardless of what you want to call "the state."
It seems many people here have an idea of a "state" which isnt actually what a "state" has been through history, so If their belief isnt dependent on a state (though many say thing which naturally imply some over-arching authority figure, such as the claims in the manifesto) then I suppose it can be consistent, but if they end up doing all the same stuff and calling it something different, then nothing really changed.


While not all communists may consider themselves marxists, it should be obvious in my opinion that marxism as some sort of "political agenda" is inconsistent with anarchism, as right off the bat it calls for an "income tax." How can you be anti-state and support an "income tax" ? Who is laying down this income tax?

All statism is essentially the same at it's root.
Your teacher believes in "government," he is an authoritarian, though he might consider himself more skeptical of "authority." Clearly he is not as he believes in "voting" for "politicians."
Anarchists are apolitical in the sense of "government/state/politics."
If otherwise, they'll just end up saying something which advocates an authoritarian presence (some group claiming it has more 'rights' than everyone else) ruling society.

[Le Socialiste]

I once had a teacher in high school who, I kid you not, crawled on the gymnasium floor in military fatigues like he was ducking barbed wire at an obstacle course - during a school rally. He was extremely rightwing, and always mocked me for having long hair and "dressing like a hippie" in class (which I did, and am not particularly proud of - it was a strange time for me). On top of being my U.S. history teacher, he was also the only official at my school who could administer driving lessons/tests for one's driver's permit. I had to get up at 6 am every morning just to hear his obnoxious ass for an hour. And now I'm rambling; point is, there's very little you can do to change your teacher's mind. The best you can do is do what's expected of you in that class, pass it, and get as far away from it as you possibly can once you're done.

Edit - Sorry, I forgot to answer your initial question: I think yes, historically and strategically socialists and anarcho-communists have fought together against capitalism. Does that mean there aren't clear differences between them? No, but for all the conflict that exists between the two camps there's also cooperation and collaboration. It's certainly possible, if history tells us anything.

[redblood_blackflag]

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/coldoffthepresses/anavsoc.html

this has to do with "socialism," but-

[ellipsis]

Try telling him about libertarian-socialism...:grin:

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Your exactly right. He always says "Communism looks good on paper, but always fails in practice." And if you try to argue it he will just steer the topic in the direction he want's. And yes, he believes that anarchy is nothing more than chaos. This how he put it "Anarchy basically means you litter, and write dumb red A's all over your clothing." :cursing:

Teachers need a better vetting process

Namely, 'Don't be an obnoxious, opinionated and ignorant asshole who introduces their personal politics in the classroom'

[Tuggback]

He call's it an "oxymoron" and that they are the opposites of each other and that if they were really communist and anarchist that these 2 groups would "absolutely despise" each other. I try to explain to them that the reason these 2 groups work with each other is to fight capitalism, y'know the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". But he will have none of it, he says if you were really an anarchist you would "hate communism" but I don't. Can you guys clear this up for me? Also I know this teacher is a dunce he voted for Mitt Romney 0_0

He probably imagines the whole situation as Sex Pistols vs KGB. What subject does he teach?

[MP5]

You could try explaining how Anarchist Communism has been one of the main currents of Anarchism in the past 2 centuries, how not all Communists are strictly Marxists as some are of the Anarchist aka Libertarian type, point out how similar perfected Marxist Communism is to Anarcho-Communism and how the idea of Anarchism is more or less Communism anyway as Anarchists are against private property and wage slavery as well. You could also point out how organization exists within Anarchist society's but the basic premise of voluntary association and lack of a hierarchy is what makes it different from other ideologies. You could also point out examples of Anarchist society's over the years and how much they resemble Communism.

Then again your teacher probably does not even know what Anarchism, Socialism or Communism really mean. I remember we has a history teacher who thought that the Nazis where socialists and taught all her students that the Nazis and the USSR where all on the same side :rolleyes:. Even being 14 years old i knew that was full of shit but as soon as i tried to correct her she got all offended and literally yelled at me "I AM THE TEACHER!". Because that is apparently of have supposed to have impressed me :closedeyes: . They don't want you to learn much less challenge them they just want you to regurgitate what they want you to say. We where not taught what Socialism or Communism was beyond Socialism and Communism=bad while Capitalism= good. Teachers also all seem to think that Anarchism is chaos probably because they cannot grasp the concept of a stateless and classless society.

[Fourth Internationalist]

Tell him about Peter Kroptkin (sp?) or Emma Goldman. Tell him what communism and anarchism actually are. Ask him if he's read Marx or Engels or Kroptkin. If not, tell him to learn about something before hating it. Always have great points ready. Try to stay in the 19th century because I think that'll make it look more like a "real" political view rather than a stupid modern trend or whatever he thinks it is. Or just like Google it and show him that it actually exists. Best of luck! :D

[Rafiq]

Anarchism is a current of the socialist movement, plus the universalist objection to states, hierarchy, etc. Both the Anarchists and the Communists sprung from the same father.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Historically speaking communists and anarchists have worked alongside each other before and during the revolution, even if they came to oppose each other afterwards.

That's not really true.
In the first international the anarchists were kicked out.
The Bolsheviks hated the anarchists, which anyone who reads a few pages of Lenin would see.
Historically speaking even before a revolution anarchists and communists didn't work well alomgside each other.

[Skyhilist]

That's not really true.
In the first international the anarchists were kicked out.
The Bolsheviks hated the anarchists, which anyone who reads a few pages of Lenin would see.
Historically speaking even before a revolution anarchists and communists didn't work well alomgside each other.

What about how Makhno and the people of Free Territory helped the Bolsheviks fight off the white army (y'know before they were betrayed and slaughtered)?

[Red Enemy]

That's not really true.
In the first international the anarchists were kicked out.
The Bolsheviks hated the anarchists, which anyone who reads a few pages of Lenin would see.
Historically speaking even before a revolution anarchists and communists didn't work well alomgside each other.
Actually, there were many Anarchists involved in the Soviets before the other parties got kicked out. In fact, many anarchists held positive views of the Bolsheviks until Kronstadt.

I also have a book of Trotsky's speeches, one of which criticizes anarchist theory, but refers to anarchists as "comrades" and talked very positively of their involvement in the revolution.

[Kalinin's Facial Hair]

Oh these evil, evil communists always betraying the innocent ingenuous anarchists...

What some anarchists seldom say is that cheka officials had been killed by anarchists; that anarchist organizations, due to its anti-hierarchical character, were entered by reactionaries and so on.



Also, I consider anarchists of all sorts (let alone an-caps) my comrades.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

He call's it an "oxymoron" and that they are the opposites of each other and that if they were really communist and anarchist that these 2 groups would "absolutely despise" each other. I try to explain to them that the reason these 2 groups work with each other is to fight capitalism, y'know the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". But he will have none of it, he says if you were really an anarchist you would "hate communism" but I don't. Can you guys clear this up for me? Also I know this teacher is a dunce he voted for Mitt Romney 0_0

Give him a copy of Lenin's State and Revolution, or perhaps show him some literature about the early Communist International and how the Anarchists and Marxists disagreed over means, not ends. Direct textual evidence and actual historical events are something he won't be able to dispute. Maybe you won't make him an anarchist or Marxist but you can at least correct his glaring misunderstanding of the international socialist movement.

[Comrade Nasser]

He probably imagines the whole situation as Sex Pistols vs KGB. What subject does he teach?

LOL he teaches English.

[Comrade Nasser]

Give him a copy of Lenin's State and Revolution, or perhaps show him some literature about the early Communist International and how the Anarchists and Marxists disagreed over means, not ends. Direct textual evidence and actual historical events are something he won't be able to dispute. Maybe you won't make him an anarchist or Marxist but you can at least correct his glaring misunderstanding of the international socialist movement.

Well I wasn't planning on converting him but I want to explain to him that it can work, and educate him a little bit. The only thing I dislike is that he subtly injects his politics into his teachings, but overall I would say he's a good teacher. I have a B+ In the class and he actually loves that I'm one of the only students who disagrees with him and try's to have debates with him lol.

[newdayrising]

Tell your teacher that:
1-Anarcho-Communism is not "a mix between anarchism and communism". It's a communist current that comes from the anarchist tradition, not the marxist one.
2-Communism means a stateless, classless society, which is exactly what anarchists want. He's confusing communism with common sense view of the dictatorship of the proletariat ("RUSSIA"), which is a means to get to communism, not communism itself.
3-Anarcho-communists are different from mainstream Marxist communists in that they don't want to have the dictatorship of the proletariat phase in between and want to go straight to the stateless classless thing.

It's a very simplistic and somewhat vulgar explanation, but I guess it works for people with no idea what they're talking about.

[Blake's Baby]

I agree. There's no dichotomy between 'Anarchists' and 'Communists'. Some communists are Anarchists - Anarchist-Communists or Anarcho-Communists or Communist-Anarchists as they've variously been called (see, Peter/Pyotr Kropotkin, Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman etc) - and some communists are Marxists.

While there are certainly disagreements (and still a lot of mutual incomprehension) between Anarchists and Marxists, Anarchist Communism has been a current of socialism since the 1880s.

[#FF0000]

LOL he teaches English.

Good, because he'd be an abysmal history teacher.

[Luís Henrique]

Well I wasn't planning on converting him but I want to explain to him that it can work, and educate him a little bit. The only thing I dislike is that he subtly injects his politics into his teachings, but overall I would say he's a good teacher. I have a B+ In the class and he actually loves that I'm one of the only students who disagrees with him and try's to have debates with him lol.

Make him a gift of a book on Anarcho-Communism.

Luís Henrique

[Hit The North]

You need to school him as it is obvious that he equates communism with the authoritarian regimes of state capitalism. In that respect, he is correct to argue that anarchists would hate the "communists". But he's wrong in thinking that the USSR, etc. were communist.

[Zealot]

People who don't understand Communism think it's all about having a huge government that controls every part of human existence. I believe this is how he views communism thus, to him, Anarchism is its direct opposite.

[Ocean Seal]

Let me guess, people are greedy and stupid and if you tell them to share, they will hoard shit so you need a totalitarian government to make them share because sharing is against human nature?
Was I spot on, I didn't actually read your post. But make sure to troll your teacher errday.

[RedSun]

Your teacher confuses communism with state capitalist dictatorships. Actually, the communist experiences that you historically had came from anarchists uprisings.


What about how Makhno and the people of Free Territory helped the Bolsheviks fight off the white army (y'know before they were betrayed and slaughtered)?


Actually, there were many Anarchists involved in the Soviets before the other parties got kicked out. In fact, many anarchists held positive views of the Bolsheviks until Kronstadt.

I also have a book of Trotsky's speeches, one of which criticizes anarchist theory, but refers to anarchists as "comrades" and talked very positively of their involvement in the revolution.

There was never any sympathy of the Bolsheviks towards the anarchists or any kind of will for a long-term commitment, while it is true that anarchists wrongly trusted in the Bolsheviks in the beginning.

The anarchists were merely used by the Bolsheviks firstly to overthrow the Tzar, next the provisional government and finally to get rid of the white army.

The Bolsheviks plans were traced and they never included the anarchists in it nor they could due to its oppressive nature.

[Comrade Nasser]

My history teacher is also a right-wing conservative nut-job but she doesn't spew her venom into the teaching's for the most part.

[Comrade Nasser]

Haha I do. I come every day after school to talk to him. He think's i'm a "commie" and a "rebel without a cause" lol

[Zealot]

Tell him to visit Revleft, heh. Although you might want to edit your posts above :laugh:

[Let's Get Free]

He probably feels that way because far too many people are convinced that communism= bureaucratic-run state capitalism.

[Comrade Nasser]

Tell him to visit Revleft, heh. Although you might want to edit your posts above :laugh:

Haha I'm dying right now :laugh: