God

[DaCuBaN]

Are you suggesting that in an ideal society according to you there would be no sport? Despite the fact that more people enjoy it than dont?

My ideal society would be void of all forms of competition. I never said I expect this to happen, but I still want it. My argument is also against spectator sports... I have no objections to people playing sports as a recreation, but I have issues with the organised spectator aspect of it. In the UK especially there is a growing problem with violence from supporters. Again, this is the minority spoiling it for the vast majority, but it's still the case nonetheless :(


I probably have the same ambivilence toward it as you but it brings more joy than hatred especially on scale, religion brings a lot of joy but causes war etc whereas sport at most causes riots between relatively small groups of people.


I agree that organised religion is worse, but as I said above I do consider sport to be a problem.


Now you may say its like religion but sport dosent preach ideas it caters for the natural human urge (for more people than not) to take part in physical activity that is competitive [...] Also most people use sport as an outlet for the pent up agression and hatred towrds their jobs and riots etc. whereas in a fair society this aspect would most likely disappear.

Sport and religion are intertwined in many ways, but in Glasgow they truly are intertwined, and nationalism somehow managed to creep it's way in (Celtic being Irish nationalist catholic Rangers being British nationalist protestant).

I'm not offering this as a solution - it's not really feasible in all honesty, but I do believe that abolishing spectator sports would do more good than harm

Think about what could be done with all that money too :rolleyes:

[cubist]

Geist you like propergandhi? top stuff

Divine, you may view football as mindless and sport as mindless but sport is humans way of displaying theyre natural competitiveness, it unifys more poeple and kills less than religion ever has/will,

to imply that sport is mindless so it can't be compared to religion is a true display of ignorance

[Kurai Tsuki]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 02:14 AM
God? No... I'm pretty sure that God doesn't exist because the Goddess told me so. ;)
It's good to know I'm not the only one who answered their question that way.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Cubist I like some of Propaghandhi's stuff, kinda of attacks everything I hate, fascism and especially the song Fuck religion where they expressly focus my beliefs in a few lines:

fuck zionism, fuck nationalism, fuck americanism, fuck militarism, FUCK RELIGION.

Its inarticulate and blunt that it is great, almost sublime.

On the whole Glasgow thing I know all about it considering in Ireland a Celtic jersy is the same as having an Ireland jersey. I support Celtic myself, not all the bullshit attached to it but the football team thats why I am defending sport cos you are using the team I support as an example.

[cubist]

i like the BULLSHIT POLITICIANS,

if you like propergandhi do you like good riddance if you have heard of them, if you haven't try it russ rankins liyrics are sublime and the riffs are more musical than propegandhi

anyway Chao i is off to the pub,

GOD DOESN'T EXIST UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE

[X CHE Guevara X]

God ; if there is no god then there is no purpose for our lives. I actually want to feel like i belong here. this world just dint come out of nowhere but like everything has a start is there a greater power than god.

[DaCuBaN]

Actually argiung the existence of god is totally futile. By all means try and scientifically prove his/her/it's existence but there are no suitable arguments currently available to prove his existence.

Study biology, look at bacteria, then think about the atom. If anything it's far more likely that we are just a tiny speck in another, even larger, universe that is currently beyond us. We are such small and insignifacnt beings that there is no purpose in this debate - by all means believe but leave it at that. Please.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by X CHE Guevara [email protected] 30 2004, 08:55 PM
God ; if there is no god then there is no purpose for our lives. I actually want to feel like i belong here. this world just dint come out of nowhere but like everything has a start is there a greater power than god.

Why do you equate god with meaning for our existence, as an agostic with no concern over gods existence i disagree, I am totally fulfilled whether god exists or not.

[DaCuBaN]

On the whole Glasgow thing I know all about it considering in Ireland a Celtic jersy is the same as having an Ireland jersey. I support Celtic myself, not all the bullshit attached to it but the football team thats why I am defending sport cos you are using the team I support as an example.


Well I'm acutally on a small crusade here to overthrow Rangers and Celtic and replace them with Partick Thistle :D :lol:

By all means keep sport - I don't mind that much (although I do perceive it as a distraction from more important issues and hence a bad thing), but religion and nationalism HAVE to be expunged from it before it is safe from my wrath ;)

[The Divine]

I would like to state my opinion on something i am constantly seeing reappear. When athesits claim to have no faith. I constantly see "i have no faith." This is just simply incorrect. To be atheist, you must have just as much faith as a christian or any other religious person. You must have faith that a god does not exsist. Until you can scientifically prove god is not real, you must rely on faith.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Spot the bullshitter, they dont believe in God, so they dont need to have faith in the non-existence of something becuase it is a construct to the mind. Get over it, people with a little reason and any kind of humanist spirit discard of God once they reach maturity.

[The Divine]

Prove to me that god exsists.

Until then, your relying on your faith.




(by the way, i am atheist)

[erebus323]

IMHO, god is the concept by which we measure our pain. Panthiest ideology and agnostic(or ambiguous) thought have influenced me very much. My conclusion is that we live to live, not to worship. I don't deny god nor do i condone, but i can't wait to find out.

[BuyOurEverything]

Prove to me that god exsists.

Until then, your relying on your faith.


How can you prove that a non-existance entity exists? And what does faith have to do with it? You need no faith in order to realize the logically provable truth.


Cubist I like some of Propaghandhi's stuff, kinda of attacks everything I hate, fascism and especially the song Fuck religion where they expressly focus my beliefs in a few lines:

fuck zionism, fuck nationalism, fuck americanism, fuck militarism, FUCK RELIGION.


Awesome, more Propagandhi fans! I think I posted that song in a lyrics thread a while ago and pissed off Rastafari... Good times. I like Today's Empires Tomorrow's Ashes.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Yeah theres something about Rastas in there alright but its fair, religion is oppression even if it is clouded in a feel good factor.

On the topic of not denying god, why not? Give in to your pride and shout obsenities against his name.

[BuyOurEverything]

The song's pretty anti-Rastafarian. I think the actual name is 'Haille Selasi Up Your Ass' or 'Haille Does Hebron' or something. If you actually look at Rastafarianism, it's not the 'nice' ideology it's made out to be. Bob Marley was a wife beating rapist.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Exactly I didnt want to say it because there are a few Rastas who are young I presume that I reckon will grow out of it, plus its often best for people to outgrow religion rather than force it.

[Pejoeang]

I do. I don't mind atheists and other people that don't agree with me. That's good. As thinking, (presumably) mature people we should all have different opinions on everything. If we all thought the same thing then that would be... What is word? "Uniformism"? (Couldn't find a better word...)

[El Tipo]

If you desire peace of soul and happiness, then believe;
if you would be a disciple of truth like me,
then seek for the truth...

...Me.

:rolleyes:

Truth has always been hard to swallow, but then again...

"quid est veritas"
-Pontius Pilate

Well I found my answer from the bible.. but still looking. The path of faith is tough one just like life.

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
(John 14:6)

[redstar2000]

No one comes to the Father except through me.

Have a nice trip; send us a postcard. :blink:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[pandora]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 02:40 AM
.


Cubist I like some of Propaghandhi's stuff, kinda of attacks everything I hate, fascism and especially the song Fuck religion where they expressly focus my beliefs in a few lines:

fuck zionism, fuck nationalism, fuck americanism, fuck militarism, FUCK RELIGION.


Awesome, more Propagandhi fans! I think I posted that song in a lyrics thread a while ago and pissed off Rastafari... Good times. I like Today's Empires Tomorrow's Ashes.
Sounds like a Circle Jerks rip off only same lyrics except the words were:
"I Hate Zionism, I hate Nationalism, I Hate Reaganism, I Hate Religion"

Well I guess you live long enough it all comes back.
Still Propaghandhi are . . . rip offs, who will they ripoff next "Reagan's Youth"
whose brillant lyrics have finally come to term.

Oh but it's all new, ak 84

[karma-cola]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 01:57 AM
Who gives a shit whether or not he exists?
The point is that he doesn't have the right to be used to subjugate people.

And from a non-political point-of-view, I am an atheist.
If you the communists dont use god to motivate the people
then it is obvious other people will use him for their own purposes.

God is like clay you can make what you want of him

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Because it is most likely us who created him ;0

[redstar2000]

If you the communists don't use god to motivate the people then it is obvious other people will use him for their own purposes.

Why not use "race"? Or gender? Or sexual orientation? Or nationalism? Or "leader-worship"?

The idea that we can "use" anti-communist ideologies to promote communism makes no sense.

"Fight for communism & Save the White Race!"

"Be a real man...be a communist!"

"Patriotism & Communism...a winning combination!"

"A leader has appeared to lead us to communism!"

See how stupid all that sounds.

"Communism -- On Earth as it is in Heaven!"

"Communism -- the Kingdom of God is at hand!"

"Communism -- the real Rapture!"

Total idiocy!

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[elijahcraig]

I didn't vote, because I consider the question to simplistic.

I would like to look at the psychological meaning of the idea behind the conception of a "deity," or any dogmatic belief for that matter. Joseph Campbell, Jung, and others have addressed this issue.

The question, I suppose everyone is asking here, is whether an "external master exists" as a God. I think it is clear that the ONLY "external master" which exists and controls the human mind and world is the created concepts the human mind has manufactured to justify their existence. IN other words, God is a creation to cope with the harshness of reality. I would say the same of science and all other modes of thought which have a basis in a need to explain the meaning of Being. At least those which are dogmatic.

[DaCuBaN]

"Communism -- the Kingdom of God is at hand!"


Yeah all work fine except that
Many do believe that communism=heaven <_< :rolleyes:

[karma-cola]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 11:00 PM

If you the communists don&#39;t use god to motivate the people then it is obvious other people will use him for their own purposes.

Why not use "race"? Or gender? Or sexual orientation? Or nationalism? Or "leader-worship"?

The idea that we can "use" anti-communist ideologies to promote communism makes no sense.

"Fight for communism & Save the White Race&#33;"

"Be a real man...be a communist&#33;"

"Patriotism & Communism...a winning combination&#33;"

"A leader has appeared to lead us to communism&#33;"

See how stupid all that sounds.

"Communism -- On Earth as it is in Heaven&#33;"

"Communism -- the Kingdom of God is at hand&#33;"

"Communism -- the real Rapture&#33;"

Total idiocy&#33;

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
Well any system that has no god has no future

Because the future is god

That is what evolution is all about

We will all evolve into Gods

Thats all I can say.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Sorry to disappoint you but it seems to be going the other way, the death of God is just slow and some people take longer to detach themselves from an idea than others, for example you.

[elijahcraig]

THe death of God does not necessarily mean that there will be no religion. Nietzsche&#39;s famous "death of god" phrase is a reference to the death of gods in primitive societies, which are always replaced with new ones--in different form (science) quite possibly.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Ok then let me reprhase, I mean the death of the christian God, replaced by the thirst for knowledge science makes us believe is possible etc. etc.

[elijahcraig]

Which is fantastically played out in Kubrick&#39;s 2001 A Space Odyssey.

God I love that film.

[Salvador Allende]

I don&#39;t have the time to read all 15 pages, but I certainly do not believe in a god and will use several quotes from one of the father&#39;s of modern-Anarchy, Mikhail Bakunin.

"The idea of God implies the abdication of human reason and justice; it is the most decisive negation of human liberty, and neccesarily ends in the enslavement of mankind, both in theory and practice."

"For, if God is, he is neccesarily the eternal, supreme, absolute master, and, if such a master exists, man is a slave; now, if he is a slave, neither justice, nor equality, nor fraternity, nor prosperity are possible for him."

"They represent their God as animated by the tenderest love of human liberty: a master, whoever he may be and however liberal he may desire to show himself, remains none the less always a master. His existance neccesarily implies the slavery of all that is beneath him. Therefore, if God existed, only in one way could he serve human liberty- by ceasing to exist."

*all quotes from Mikhail Bakunin&#39;s "From God and the State".

[Hawker]

No I don&#39;t believe in God because he was something people made up.The Chinese,Greeks,Japanese,Egyptians,etc. They all have their own make believe gods,but what makes you think that the Christian God is any different from those gods?

I don&#39;t believe in an afterlife.I only believe that after death I will be reborn into a new life,I believe in rebirth.I will relive the pain of life once again.There is no escaping this curse.

[mEds]

So why not just kill yourself if you just keep on being re-born? What is the purpose of anything than?

[Hawker]

Exactly our life is pretty much meaningless.But by doing that were just being selfish.You have to think about the people your hurting by doing this for instance your family.

I believe that we all have a role in this life which is yet to be discovered in most of us.To make the world better.For all we know(hypothetically speaking) maybe one of your friends maybe the reincarnation of Che,Stalin,Alexander the Great,Napoleon,etc.

[Timon of Athens]

Originally posted by Exploited Class+Jan 2 2004, 11:57 PM--> (Exploited Class @ Jan 2 2004, 11:57 PM)
[email protected] 2 2004, 04:40 PM
THEN YOU GO STRAIGHT TO HELL&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
Screw it then, I am going to chose to be reincarnated.

With luck I will only turn out to be as bad as a maggot, worm or Thatcher.

/Ba da da ba, Ching&#33;

Thank you I will be here all week. [/b]
Hey, or you could spend eternity looking for an appeal...

[elijahcraig]

No I don&#39;t believe in God because he was something people made up.The Chinese,Greeks,Japanese,Egyptians,etc. They all have their own make believe gods,but what makes you think that the Christian God is any different from those gods?

I don&#39;t believe in an afterlife.I only believe that after death I will be reborn into a new life,I believe in rebirth.I will relive the pain of life once again.There is no escaping this curse.

I think these “invented gods” are what Jung would refer to as the amplified human unconscious, meaning representatives of “Ideal humanity.” The gods are the ideal humans, or expressions thereof. The invented gods are, in support of this proposition, universally the same, only under different names and masks. Thus Campbell’s “Masks of God.”

Death into a new life? You will undoubtedly do so in a material way, and your doing so may have created a conscious in the race of humanity, therefore justifying a belief in “spiritual” or “personal” rebirth, really only rebirth in the continuing recurrence of birth and death.

[Raisa]

God is a strange word. I dont even know what exactly God is, and niether does any one else, they just have "faith" in what some one told them it was. Who the hell knows what god is. ... I believe the Gods in our books were made by people.

Im agnostic.

[elijahcraig]

Gods were originally all connected to the sun, which transposed as gods on all the earth in nature because of the sun bringing life to all these things. Eventually, rationale developed, and an anthropomorphosizing of the god occured, eventually ending in the abstract God of the present religions who has no name other than god, and who is "beyond conception," the most abstract possible. Jung and Campbell have done much to prove that all gods are the production of the human unconscious-mind, which I agree with.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 03:43 AM
No I don&#39;t believe in God because he was something people made up.The Chinese,Greeks,Japanese,Egyptians,etc. They all have their own make believe gods,but what makes you think that the Christian God is any different from those gods?

I don&#39;t believe in an afterlife.I only believe that after death I will be reborn into a new life,I believe in rebirth.I will relive the pain of life once again.There is no escaping this curse.


We are histroy right now. All the dead people of the past and animals have made the earth that we are living from.
As individuals we die, but no one is ever finished. You die, and then you make life.

[Kurai Tsuki]

They all have their own make believe gods,but what makes you think that the Christian God is any different from those gods?

The Christian god comes from the Hebrew god Jehovah. The original Hebrews believed in him but did not doubt the existance of other gods, he was simply one god among many.

[elijahcraig]

Yaweh, the Hebrew God, is a combination of a Solar God (El) and a Sun God (Yaweh), according to world-renowned anthropologist Joseph Campbell (author of the Hero with a Thousand Faces, Masks of God, and many other studies in mythology).

[hawarameen]

i do not believe in god at all,
however if it turns out that he does exist, i would like to apologise in advance for calling you names. even though you slept with another mans wife, made her pregnant and killed your own son. he should DEFINATELY appear of jerry springer&#33;

[GodIsDead]

There could be a God, but not a Abrahamicesque God; omnipotent Gods have too many contradictory attributes. There may be a higher being, but he&#39;s imperfect. There doesn&#39;t need to be a God to be an afterlife, so there is no need for God.

[RevolucioN NoW]

There could be a God, but not a Abrahamicesque God; omnipotent Gods have too many contradictory attributes. There may be a higher being, but he&#39;s imperfect. There doesn&#39;t need to be a God to be an afterlife, so there is no need for God.

Is there any more evidence of the existance of a "imperfect" god than a omnipotent one?

There is no scientific evidence of the existance of any higher being or an "afterlife" of any sort, so why worry yourself about it?

Just accept that when you die, you are dead, no gods, no afterlife, no nothing, as soon as humanity realises this the days of the organised reactionary racket will be over.

[esta_brujita]

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." -Napoleon

I don&#39;t like Napoleon, but I have to agree on him on this.

[Chad King]

I didnt read any posts before this, so forgive me if I repeat anything or whatever...

I firmly believe in something, albeit God, dharma... whatever, Im pretty confident that something is there, although Im pretty much Buddhist, I dont deny the existence of a God, for I cant say what is and whats not there, for I have not died and lived to tell the tale.

But I must say, I lean more towards a dharma based system that runs the universe, for I firmly believe in a balance of all things, nor do I believe that a simple, unfathomable force that runs everything should be placed as a patriach figurehead of a belief system, but whatever... its there, we call it something and it obviously works, should be the end of story there... but again, whatever.

I also firmly believe that pretty much every religion points in damn near the same direction, its just they have different paths to the salvation from the pains of mortal living, I look at it in the way, since Im a Western Buddhist, Im on the path less traveled.

[gaf]

i know one thing in this world(i think) :
people only believe what they want to believe....

[The Worm is God]

i beleive in a great instigator of the universe, for without a catalyst to spur the reaction that caused the big bang, it could not in theory have happened. I do not, however, beleive in a compassionate god who holds dominion over humanity.

[elijahcraig]

I don&#39;t like Napoleon, but I have to agree on him on this.

I like Napoleon.

[Guerrilla22]

The idea that a divine being exist is too far fetched to be believable, on top of that there is no actual evidence to provide that such a being exist, and no the bible is not evidence.

[_asdf]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 12:24 PM

Actually there was a Jesus, it&#39;s if he was the son of a god that&#39;s in question. But he was alive in Israel 2000 years ago... however I think he actually just tried to reform the Jewish religion that he saw as being held hostage by the temple priests (rabbies or whatever) I don&#39;t think he set out to form his own religion... that came much later... and actually the New Testiment was writen hundereds of years after his death.
I&#39;m sick and tired of hearing that there was a real Jesus&#33; Everybody says that there is tangible proof that shows Jesus was a real guy. In all the years I&#39;ve looked for it, I&#39;ve never found one bit of information that proves Jesus was real. The Romans did not keep in depth records of things like that.
I&#39;m tired of seeing aethiests and agnostics make the concession that there was an actual man named Jesus. I don&#39;t believe there was. Sure, there might have been a man with the name of Jesus (just like there are men today with that name), but no one did any of the stuff that the Bible says one man did.
Even if there was a Jesus Christ... all he would be in my eyes is a more successful Charles Manson.

[Dark Exodus]

I do not beleive in god because...

&#39;The idea that a divine being exist is too far fetched to be believable, on top of that there is no actual evidence to provide that such a being exist, and no the bible is not evidence.&#39;

[h&s]

God doesn&#39;t exist. Religion was invented to control the masses from the pulpit. It plays on the most basic of human fears - death. If you can scare someone into believe that they will be tortured after death, they will do anything you tell them to avoid it.

[Nas]

i dont believe in God but i do believe there was a man called Jesus ( i dont believe he was a god but i believe he was just man), i believe in what Marx said that "religion is the opium of the masses" , people are believers ands thats what they are,

personally,i am definately not religious, i know there is no heaven or hell or god or a point for going to church every sunday but i believe in guardian angels , i dont like to use the word angels but whatever , i believe people have spirits or souls, etc, after they died and in times of help i kind of like pray for that someone to guide me through

[Arrvande]

i belive i a form of god bt to many people wat is god i think that god is not a person as such but more a "thing" that keeps people alive

[zrated]

i believe that if God is definied as an intelligent creator, then there is definitely a God. we all know that something can&#39;t come from nothing, so in the beginning, where did matter and space come from? when scientific answers confirm that there is no God, then i&#39;ll believe that. until then....

i also believe in the christian God. i have no reason to believe that God would not reveal himself to his creations, so if he did, i choose christianity because it is the only major religion in which the founder&#39;s remains cannot be pinpointed. also the intricasies of the bible are incredible. too easy to beleive they are divinely inspired.

as for "if there is a God, how come bad shit happens?" who said God would never let anything bad happen? God didn&#39;t.

[Free Spirit]

I&#39;m sick and tired of hearing that there was a real Jesus&#33; Everybody says that there is tangible proof that shows Jesus was a real guy
It doesn&#39;t matter if he was real/unreal/son of God... I believe in him because he wanted to reach what a simple thing that the human makes so hard to exist...If he turned water into wine or anything supernatural, that doesn&#39;t change anything if your beliefs are reaching the good through the belief in God and Jesus....
So I Believe in God (and Jesus)

[Palmares]

Satanism pervuades that each individual is God, therefore I do believe in myself. But truly, what is God then?

[rahul]

god is defined as "Omnicresent,omniscent& omnipotent"

in this earth those qualities mainly refer the nonliving elements[air/h2o/fire....] and viruses/bacteria

[Palmares]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 12:46 PM
god is defined as "Omnicresent,omniscent& omnipotent"

in this earth those qualities mainly refer the nonliving elements[air/h2o/fire....] and viruses/bacteria
That&#39;s not what Satanism says. :lol:

[Joe_Black]

I prayed too God once. After a while i got a answer. You don&#39;t expect it.

[Palmares]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 07:31 AM
I prayed too God once. After a while i got a answer. You don&#39;t expect it.
It works with Satan too.

[Zingu]

I hover somewhere around a Deist and an atheist, I still have to think about.


I don&#39;t believe in any of these fictionous stories, I recognize the fact that all the mainstream reilgons are just ways to give the oppressed masses false hope as Marx said, thats why I chose Deism, a non-interventionist, and generic "god"/"being"/"entity"/"truth" thats just out there observing, not interfering at all and letting extistance run its own course, I&#39;m still studying Dialectical & Historical Materialism (Just started Georg Lukas&#39;s book "History and Class concience) so my views will probably change when I have more time to think and study about the subject.
But I&#39;ve been dangerously flying around the border between atheism and deism. Long ago did I give up my fear for the stupid and ridiculous lie of hell, I finally realized all these stories are just as crediable as some five year old&#39;s imagination. Also how religon was invented in different societies with all different types of gods when they all claim to be a true salvation, completely contradicting. I view my self more on the scientific side than on the spiritual side.

[cubist]

you would be an agnostic then squire&#33;

[DaCuBaN]

Long ago did I give up my fear for the stupid and ridiculous lie of hell, I finally realized all these stories are just as crediable as some five year old&#39;s imagination.

Same: I&#39;m going to be pretty fucking pissed off though if I was wrong... I&#39;m apparently destined for the "City of Dis", along with half the members of this site.

Anyone fancy meeting up for a smoke? :D

[Freedom Writer]

My mother believes in god.. not straightly christian god, maybe its more kinda hope that there is more in this world that we see. And I have seen the positive and the negative things that religion can do, but then again everything that can be used, can be either for good or bad. I dont really know whats out there, but in my daily life I dont really give a schitt ( http://home.pacbell.net/diana_do/knowjack.htm ).

[Freedom Writer]

My mother believes in god.. not straightly christian god, maybe its more kinda hope that there is more in this world that we see. And I have seen the positive and the negative things that religion can do, but then again everything that can be used, can be either for good or bad. I dont really know whats out there, but in my daily life I dont really give a schitt ( http://home.pacbell.net/diana_do/knowjack.htm ).

[Freedom Writer]

My mother believes in god.. not straightly christian god, maybe its more kinda hope that there is more in this world that we see. And I have seen the positive and the negative things that religion can do, but then again everything that can be used, can be either for good or bad. I dont really know whats out there, but in my daily life I dont really give a schitt ( http://home.pacbell.net/diana_do/knowjack.htm ).

[Sabocat]

we all know that something can&#39;t come from nothing

Then where did god come from? :lol:

[Sabocat]

we all know that something can&#39;t come from nothing

Then where did god come from? :lol:

[Sabocat]

we all know that something can&#39;t come from nothing

Then where did god come from? :lol:

[Vallegrande]

It really depends on what you describe as god. God can mean many things to many people of different cultures. God is just a name that is also equal to Nam myoho renge kyo. Devotion to something that you feel is the ultimate law of life is what God would be.

[Vallegrande]

It really depends on what you describe as god. God can mean many things to many people of different cultures. God is just a name that is also equal to Nam myoho renge kyo. Devotion to something that you feel is the ultimate law of life is what God would be.

[Vallegrande]

It really depends on what you describe as god. God can mean many things to many people of different cultures. God is just a name that is also equal to Nam myoho renge kyo. Devotion to something that you feel is the ultimate law of life is what God would be.

[Lobo]

I do - believe in Him that is.

[Hiero]

Let&#39;s say there is a God. Well then he isnt omniscent and omnipotent. If he was do you think he would create more then one book. How cna you follow a God that is all powerfull yet he can be summarised in a couple books and good enough to follow. I have read bits of the Koran and Bible and its nothing impressive you think this omniscent god would of wrote something really mind blowing but no its all one liners and short stories.

[Vallegrande]

I can see major similarities in many or all of the religious teachings. The one thing that they all know is that life is eternal. No matter if we are in hell or heaven. But one thing we all should know as well is that both hell and heaven are only temporary though they may seem to be eternal.

"Suffer what there is to suffer. Enjoy what there is to enjoy. In the end, regard both suffering and joy as facts of life..."
Nichiren Daishonin

[I.T.W.B.N.O.I]

lol how do you know that there wont be a special "debators booth" at the gates so that nobody complanes about the service, but then again there not going anywhere are they? :)

[Freedom Writer]

According to bible, I will burn in hell&#33; WOHOO&#33;

Thanks god, for the suffering and the total suffering in this life and the next one&#33;

No I dont believe in god, if god existed I would rather burn in hell than obey him.

[XYZYX]

I said no, becuase I don&#39;t see a reason for there to be one.

[James Peterson]

Yes

Because my surroundings are obviously designed. It takes a blind man to not see it.

Because mega time is a con

Because pop-science is the new dogma

[Palmares]

What is this babble?

[DaCuBaN]

Fortunately, the management have deemed it something we should not have to put up with.

Cheers :D

[guevara-marley]

if he&#39;s really there he did so many bad things to my so why should i believe in him?
if there&#39;s a god theres also satan...i don&#39;t have any good expiriences with churches and people who are believing in god...

[rainyday]

I of course voted No
Only because "Fuck No" wasnt a choice

[Vallegrande]

Imagine there&#39;s no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
And no religion too. -John Lennon ("Imagine")

[leftist resistance]

yes

[Big Boss]

YES, I believe in him. I have all my life and forever will. That does not mean that my socialist ideal is changed by it. I also beleive in the armed struggle for the defenseless, poor, and abused people of this world. In Cuba, the Catholic Church has been there with the people and Castro does not support the church but does not condem her neither. Jesus said: "Give to Ceasar what is his but give God what is of his also." I give to my God my devotion and faith by fighting for the people who are stepped on by capitalist goverments everywhere in the world. A socialist goverment is ideal as long as it does not affect my faith. :rolleyes:

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Fervent Guerrilla
In Cuba, the Catholic Church has been there with the people and Castro does not support the church but does not condemn her either.

No, but he certainly should&#33;

The Catholic hierarchy enthusiastically supported Batista and they still miss him -- they think of his odious dictatorship as "the golden age of Cuban Catholicism".

(The "popular religion" in Cuba is Santeria -- a mystical polytheism having its ultimate roots in west Africa. It has no public presence at all...possibly because it doesn&#39;t need one.)

You might also look at the Catholic record in Venezuela -- where they are not only hysterically opposed to Chavez but were also directly involved in the 2002 abortive military coup.

It&#39;s perfectly possible for you to be a "Christian socialist" if that&#39;s what you want...but the historical record suggests that if your Christianity and your socialism come into conflict, you&#39;ll abandon socialism and choose Christianity.

Bad move.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)

A site about communist ideas

[FARAcmsr]

can you prove God?

can you disprove God?

[redstar2000]

There is no scientific evidence for the existence of any supernatural entities.

The rational conclusion is that therefore they do not exist.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Palmares]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 02:56 PM
can you prove God?

can you disprove God?
If a proposition is put forward, in this case, that God exists, it is the responsibility of the proponent to prove this proposition, not for the non-believer to disprove it. Only when proof has been forwarded does the non-believer have to then attempt to disprove it.

Doing otherwise, is simply trying to deflect the argument to the other person.

[thorgar]

God exists as a means for man to control his environment. By praying to a higher power you can improve your chances of a better harvest, victory over your enemies or safety for your loved ones. By channeling the divine you can also control populations. The existence of God is historically verifiable. He was created by man and used by all men to further their individual or collective agendas. Yes I believe in God The Almighty.

[STI]

You had me goin&#39; for a minute.

[MILLEN-]

no.. in my believe god is just a need of our sub-conscience, some people personificate this need in god. I know it feels good to believe in something superior than us were we can put our hopes and fears.. but u dont have to call him "god".. its just a need not a person or whatever u wanna call it <_<

[Dyst]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 07:50 PM
There is no scientific evidence for the existence of any supernatural entities.

The rational conclusion is that therefore they do not exist.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
You, sir, are a moron, and everyone who claims to "have figured it out" as with you. There is "no scientific evidence" for the existence of any "supernatural entities," however, there is no scientific evidence pointing in the other direction either.

There is a reason that this is a question that has been uncertain in all known time. And, if anyone here seems to "have it all figured out," they most probably haven&#39;t. At the time, this is questions that simply can not be answered. The "rational conclusion" as you so ignorantly described it, will be to shut up about it, and not try to figure it out until materialisticly it&#39;s possible.

[lena]

god just exists for that people who needs a god&#33;
you have to live your life on your own way and you have to stand for those thinks you made wrong - you just need a god to say : oh shit i did something wrong - please forgive me and so on...........................&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
it´s completly stupid - like marx said:"God is opium for the people - give it to them and they are not able to recognize anything anymore"
you really can´t believe in the fucking bible - it´s bullshit- you can´t tell me : god created all the humans and living things in just seven day....
bible stuff is just for those people who have nothing to believe in...

i must say just believe in yourself - that´s the only thing that counts...................&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

no god exist&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
believe me.....

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Keiza
You, sir, are a moron, and everyone who claims to "have figured it out" as with you.

To be called a "moron" by someone who believes in "sacred geometry" is, when you stop and think about it, something of a compliment.

Sort of like being called an "enemy of freedom"...by George W. Bush. :lol:


There is "no scientific evidence" for the existence of any "supernatural entities," however, there is no scientific evidence pointing in the other direction either.

You don&#39;t quite grasp the point, do you.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

It "points" very firmly "in the other direction" -- no evidence for the supernatural means the supernatural doesn&#39;t exist.

Should it ever happen in the future that reliable and verifiable evidence for the supernatural actually emerges, then I would change my view.

Until then, religion remains a serious concern only for those who haven&#39;t really thought about it yet...or those who can&#39;t.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Dyst]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Dec 27 2004, 05:57 AM--> (redstar2000 @ Dec 27 2004, 05:57 AM)
Keiza
You, sir, are a moron, and everyone who claims to "have figured it out" as with you.

To be called a "moron" by someone who believes in "sacred geometry" is, when you stop and think about it, something of a compliment.

Sort of like being called an "enemy of freedom"...by George W. Bush. :lol:


There is "no scientific evidence" for the existence of any "supernatural entities," however, there is no scientific evidence pointing in the other direction either.

You don&#39;t quite grasp the point, do you.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

It "points" very firmly "in the other direction" -- no evidence for the supernatural means the supernatural doesn&#39;t exist.

Should it ever happen in the future that reliable and verifiable evidence for the supernatural actually emerges, then I would change my view.

Until then, religion remains a serious concern only for those who haven&#39;t really thought about it yet...or those who can&#39;t.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas [/b]
You are misjudging. Why do you know they haven&#39;t thought about it yet? Most of them (believers in the supernatural) probably have thought of it much more than you have, considering they believe in it... And the fact that you think they believe in it because of their ignorance just proves that you have to think about why people believe in things. Like, why do people even consider things like these when you "know it&#39;s wrong" and you think it&#39;s ultimately logic to assume no supernatural entities.

It&#39;s like for an american cappie to ask why the hell does people "still" believe communism to be true, because they "know it to be bullshit" but in reality, we all know they think it&#39;s idiotic because they don&#39;t know it.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Keiza
Why do you know they haven&#39;t thought about it yet? Most of them (believers in the supernatural) probably have thought of it much more than you have, considering they believe in it...

Because if they did really think about their superstitions, then they&#39;d recognize them as utterly preposterous.

Do you believe in "Santa Claus" or the "tooth fairy" or "elves"?

Presumably, you do not. Why? Because such propositions are, in fact, utterly preposterous.

As are all forms of superstition when subject to critical examination.


And the fact that you think they believe in it because of their ignorance just proves that you have to think about why people believe in things. Like, why do people even consider things like these when you "know it&#39;s wrong" and you think it&#39;s ultimately logical to assume no supernatural entities.

People originally developed superstitious beliefs to "explain" natural phenomena...that is, out of fear and ignorance.

A few smart people realized that fear and ignorance can be used to exploit people and gain an "easy living".

Present-day believers were taught to believe as children (often through the threat or use of violence). When they grew up, they discovered that it&#39;s "easier" to believe or at least go through the motions of belief than it is to stop and really think about whether or not it actually made any sense.

In Europe, most people no longer teach their kids to believe...and thus religion is "withering away" there. It is in the U.S. as well...but very slowly.

Ruling classes "like" people to be religious (especially in the U.S. but even in Europe) and thus do a lot to promote it.

But when you look at how people actually live, make the daily decisions in their lives, etc., most people act as if the supernatural does not exist.

That&#39;s the rational thing to do.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Danton]

I beleive in REDSTAR2000. He will deliver us from evil.

[STI]

Stop spamming.

[Vallegrande]

I believe in Marklar.

Just joking. The episode with the Marklars and the Christians are quite interesting. The Christian says to the Marklar, "But you&#39;re going to be doomed to eternal damnation". The Marklar replied, "That&#39;s nice, have a nice day".

[Dyst]

Because if they did really think about their superstitions, then they&#39;d recognize them as utterly preposterous.

Do you believe in "Santa Claus" or the "tooth fairy" or "elves"?

Presumably, you do not. Why? Because such propositions are, in fact, utterly preposterous.

As are all forms of superstition when subject to critical examination.


"Do you believe in "Santa Claus" or the "tooth fairy" or "elves"?" "Preposterous"? "Subject to critical examination"? Haha, you make me laugh. If people here would wake up and actually be critical, they would realize what you are saying contradicts itself.

You can&#39;t subject any religion to critical examination. You can, however, critize the acts and deeds that those in power has done in the name of the religion.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Keiza
You can&#39;t subject any religion to critical examination.

Why the hell not???

Once someone says something in public, no matter what it is, it is inevitably subjected to critical examination.

Is there real evidence for it? Does it make sense? Is it true?

God created the heavens and the earth.

Oh? There&#39;s not a scrap of evidence to support that proposition and a great deal of evidence in favor of a perfectly natural explanation for the origin of both stars and planets like the earth.

Conclusion: "God" did not "create the heavens and the earth". The proposition is false.

Pick out any supernatural hypothesis that purports to "explain" anything and you&#39;ll come to the same conclusion.

It ain&#39;t true.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Vallegrande]

Yes the Big Bang theory actually happened countless times, not just once. The universe oscillates.

[seraphim]

Yes but Ionly because others do belief creates existance.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 03:08 PM
Stop spamming.
Fuck off

[trex]

Originally posted by Danton+Jan 7 2005, 03:48 PM--> (Danton @ Jan 7 2005, 03:48 PM)
[email protected] 6 2005, 03:08 PM
Stop spamming.
Fuck off [/b]
God bless the communist movement.

[STI]

Originally posted by trex+Jan 10 2005, 01:20 AM--> (trex @ Jan 10 2005, 01:20 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 03:48 PM

[email protected] 6 2005, 03:08 PM
Stop spamming.
Fuck off
God bless the communist movement. [/b]
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I like it.

"I beleive in REDSTAR2000. He will deliver us from evil."
"Stop Spamming"
"Fuck Off"
"God Bless the Communist Movement".
And now THIS gem.

That&#39;s like, 5 totally needless posts.

We rock, folks.

[trex]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 08:16 PM
"God Bless the Communist Movement".
And now THIS gem.

That&#39;s like, 5 totally needless posts.

We rock, folks.
By saying that, I said where I stand on the issue. For example, if we were talking about...hitler, and the question was, &#39;do u like him?&#39; and I said "heil das furher&#33;&#39;, you&#39;d know where I stood on the issue.

[STI]

<_<

My post was a joke playing on the 5 meaningless posts that sprung from one another. "God Bless the communist movement" doesn&#39;t mean anything, since there&#39;s no god and communism is atheistic (as you should well know by now).

[synthesis]

Saying "God bless the Communist Movement" is like saying "Odin bless the Taliban", it just doesn&#39;t work.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 10:24 AM
since there&#39;s no god and communism is atheistic (as you should well know by now).
Possibly in your case; you are an atheist communist but communism is about politics and resisting reactionary dogma, not god directly. Communism has no stipulations on god by definition, so while any atheistic views may be formed with the intent to facilitate communist objectives, they are not inherently communist.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Unfortunatly "God" often involves dogma&#39;s and politics. And not critical thinking with scientific proof.

At this moment, considering what has been done in the name of "God", the political power of religionists, the dogmaticism and the brake that it puts on society - considering all this, it&#39;s better to show yourself as anti-religionist. To combat it and it&#39;s characteristics.

In the future. When society thinks in term of criticial materialism, the power of religion institutions have dissapeared and scientific proof has been found of "God". Then you could start usefull thoughts on God.

Untill then, it pretty much remains a "the chicken or the egg" issue. Only this issue has serious sociological and political impacts, and you need to take a stance which will positivly influence those sociological and political developments in society. It is your duty as a Communist.

Anyway, my view on it.

[dakewlguy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 09:07 PM

You, sir, are a moron, and everyone who claims to "have figured it out" as with you. There is "no scientific evidence" for the existence of any "supernatural entities," however, there is no scientific evidence pointing in the other direction either.

There is a reason that this is a question that has been uncertain in all known time. And, if anyone here seems to "have it all figured out," they most probably haven&#39;t. At the time, this is questions that simply can not be answered. The "rational conclusion" as you so ignorantly described it, will be to shut up about it, and not try to figure it out until materialisticly it&#39;s possible.
Yes. Also while there is no proof that a cup of tea created the universe, there is no evidence that it didn&#39;t. So therefore a cup of tea could possibly have created it.

There was no proper proof of WMDs in Iraq before the invasion. But then Saddam didn&#39;t prove that there was none, either. So there could have been WMDs in Iraq.

A person was accused of murdering someone. They were jailed until they could prove they did not do it. Guilty until proven wrong.



It is up to people who think something, to prove that it is true. Until that point it is assumed to be false, not true like you suggest. The argument of god does not go in directions, it is either true of false. Until is can be proven true, it must be assumed to be false.

[Zingu]

God does NOT always need to be a glowing hairy old guy in a thorne.

There are many conceptions of god that are purely un-dogmatic. Such as Scientific Pantheism as Einstein believed in.



Scientific or Natural Pantheism - Pan for short - has a naturalistic approach which simply accepts and reveres the universe and nature just as they are, and promotes an ethic of respect for human and animal rights and for lifestyles that sustain rather than destroy the environment.

When scientific pantheists say WE REVERE THE UNIVERSE we are not talking about a supernatural being. We are talking about the way our senses and our emotions force us to respond to the overwhelming mystery and power that surrounds us.
We are part of the universe. Our earth was created from the universe and will one day be reabsorbed into the universe.
We are made of the same matter and energy as the universe. We are not in exile here: we are at home. It is only here that we will ever get the chance to see paradise face to face. If we believe our real home is not here but in a land that lies beyond death - if we believe that the numinous is found only in old books, or old buildings, or inside our head, or outside this reality - then we will see this real, vibrant, luminous world as if through a glass darkly.
The universe creates us, preserves us, destroys us. It is deep and old beyond our ability to reach with our senses. It is beautiful beyond our ability to describe in words. It is complex beyond our ability to fully grasp in science. We must relate to the universe with humility, awe, reverence, celebration and the search for deeper understanding - in many of the ways that believers relate to their God, minus the grovelling worship or the expectation that there is some being out there who can answer our prayers.

Quite a different perspective huh?

[encephalon]

scientific pantheism is not a religion.

[codyvo]

I don&#39;t believe that their is a god.
Creationism has been proven wrong, evolution is fact.
If Jesus is the savior who did he save? The jews? Because their wasn&#39;t any christians until after he died, and if he did save the jews then the holocaust must have been a quick way to get to heaven for them, you know a highway to heaven, the quick way.

Also, I do believe that Jesus existed but some of the stories are fake and if he did exist he probably looked more like Bin Laden than the white image most people have of him.

[DarthBob]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 06:14 PM
Creationism has been proven wrong, evolution is fact.

Before you make statements like that you need to make sure you have your scientific terms correct. ;)

To be exact, Creationism has not be proven wrong, as Science by its very definition cannot prove or disprove tales of the supernatural. In addition Evolution is not a fact, but rather a theory. There is a difference albeit picky. A fact is a repeatedly confirmed observation, for example it would have been correct to say that "The fossil record shows the characteristics of species change over time is a proven fact." Evolution is really an explanation of why the above statement is the case. In Science, unlike Mathematics (where most things are black and white, except things like the Continuum Hypothesis, darn Gödel and his incompleteness theorem&#33;), few things are cut and dry, but are instead accept by the community as a whole once they have a preponderance of the evidence behind them.

That said I am an Atheist and believe religion is the second greatest evil in the world.

[More Fire for the People]

Yes, I believe in all-loving and all-accepting God.

[STI]

That said I am an Atheist and believe religion is the second greatest evil in the world.

Then why do you have a quote from "The Buddha" in your sig?


Yes, I believe in all-loving and all-accepting God.

Why?

Ooooh&#33; Fun side-note stuff. If your "God" is "all-loving", then he must love rape, child abuse, torture, racism, and genocide. If he&#39;s "all-accepting", then he must love rape, child abuse, torture, racism, and genocide.

What a mighty god you serve.

[More Fire for the People]

Perhaps I should have clarified myself,
I see God as all-accepting and all-loving of people and nature.

God doesn&#39;t care if your African, Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, Ape, Cow, Fish, etc. and no matter what you do God still loves you.

[STI]

Perhaps I should have clarified myself,
I see God as all-accepting and all-loving of people and nature.


So god loves fascists? How about rapists? Child-abusers?

Yikes. What a god.

And if God loves everyone so much, why does he send non-believers to hell?

Oh, and your "God" loves nature? Even hurricanes, tsunamis, tornados, all that shit? Uh-oh.


God doesn&#39;t care if your African, Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Native American, Ape, Cow, Fish, etc. and no matter what you do God still loves you.

Wow. So god loved Hitler. What a dick.

[D_Bokk]

There&#39;s no way to prove or disprove God. However, I don&#39;t believe in God. I just find it odd how God could neglect the human race for 2000 years and still expect people to believe. Not to mention that if God did create the Universe, it also means God created the means of nuclear warfare, deadly bacteria and humans who believe in Capitalism. God also knows when a human is created whether or not that human will sin and go to hell or be devote, God makes people just to damn them for all eternity (This is for the Christian religion).

If there is a God, it&#39;s evil and I want nothing to do with it.

[OleMarxco]

Just because what "God" presumably created has led to "allowing" those things exist, doesn&#39;t necessarily mean he is evil - he actually led us to exist in the first place, even if we HAVE to share place with such assholes&#33; :D


Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 09:10 PM
I do only because I&#39;m afraid of nothing after death...but I&#39;m a sinner.

~~DeadMan.
But then again a sinner never gets anthing after death anyways, so you&#39;re wasting your time believin&#39; in God. And even if he DID exist, why would he give you redemption. Or if he didn&#39;t, then there&#39;s no-one to sin. And if you&#39;re suddenly becoming a believer BECAUSE you sinned, then you were never an un-believerer in the first place <_<

I am agnostic. I believe someone may have created the universe and that they obviously outside our universe, but I refuse to take it for granted that there HAS to be one since I don&#39;t know and I haven&#39;t seen signs of a God - it can just be a creator withouth being "God" or no-one at all but coincidences that we came to be, so thus I am as I am.......

[Vallegrande]

Anyone wonder if Jesus went to India for that 15 year gap in the bible?

[Latin America]

I believe in God&#33;

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Latin [email protected] 16 2005, 03:34 AM
I believe in God&#33;
Well, stop that&#33; :)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif

[Vallegrande]

Hmm i guess my question will be left unanswered.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 12:36 PM
Hmm i guess my question will be left unanswered.
There&#39;s nothing in the alleged accounts of the life of "Jesus" in the "gospels" that discusses what he did between the time he was 12 and his encounter with "John the Baptist" at age 30 or so.

Jewish tradition has it that he went to Egypt and studied "magic"...that&#39;s how he was able to "impress the rubes" with "miracles".

But there&#39;s no evidence.

Some have speculated that he spent some time in the Essene community -- a kind of Jewish fundamentalist monastery (the folks who wrote the "Dead Sea Scrolls").

But there&#39;s no evidence.

And I do recall a speculative work that suggested that "Jesus" went to India and became familiar with the Jainist sect of Hinduism as well as with Buddhism.

But again, there&#39;s no evidence.

Given the unsophisticated nature of his "theology" -- Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand&#33; -- the most reasonable assumption is that he lived as a carpenter in Nazareth and developed an interest in taking Judaism "back to its roots" (as he understood them).

He was, after all, a country preacher.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[Anarcho-Communist]

Yes

[EneME]

Originally posted by redstar2000+May 16 2005, 04:37 PM--> (redstar2000 @ May 16 2005, 04:37 PM)
Latin [email protected] 16 2005, 03:34 AM
I believe in God&#33;
Well, stop that&#33; :)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif [/b]
:lol: cute..

[Shogun]

yes

[Vallegrande]

It&#39;s true there is no evidence suggesting Jesus went to these places. I just feel that it could have been true, because there is a very large gap in the bible about his life, which none of the people can say what he did. Although it suggests that he did travel East (somewhere).

Heres my question to anyone. Was Jesus around before, during, or after the burning of the Library of Alexandria? If this is the case, then I assume that all the knowledge of Jesus has been burned along with that Library. There&#39;s just too much information that has been exterminated for us to know the real truth of Jesus. Again this is my theory about him.

I believe he knew of many religions and that&#39;s why he traveled so much.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Vallegrande
Was Jesus around before, during, or after the burning of the Library of Alexandria?

Before (not counting the small fire that took place while Julius Caesar temporarily occupied Alexandria).

But here&#39;s the thing: to make use of the great library at Alexandria, one had to be able to read Greek.

And there&#39;s no evidence that "Jesus" could read at all. Nowhere in the "gospels" is "Jesus" ever shown or discussed as reading anything...not even in his native language (Aramaic), much less Greek.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[Vallegrande]

But even though he could not read or write, it was his behavior that made people attracted to him.

So people had to have written about him, and perhaps it was stored among Greek libraries and such, until the Pope allowed the burning of all heretical libraries.

Now I wonder if there are any ancient Indian texts referring to someone like Jesus, who came from the west. The silk road was still in use at that time, which went all over asia and to the Middle East. There has been a connection for thousands of years between Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and Europe, through trade and cultural interaction. That part of history is true.

I just see too many gaps between what Jesus knew and tried to expound to the people, so I am trying to piece back together all these other events that happened when Jesus existed.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Vallegrande
I just see too many gaps between what Jesus knew and tried to expound to the people...

Well, I don&#39;t know what you could be referring to here. Everything that he is purported to have said has ample precedent in the Jewish theologies of his era.

There were Jews who believed in an afterlife of punishment/reward; there were Jews who believed that the Messiah was about to return; there were Jews who believed in "ethical fairness"; etc., etc.

In other words, his "teachings" are just a "personal mix" of what was floating around in those days in Palestine; he borrowed what he liked and ignored the rest.

He didn&#39;t have to "go" anywhere to pick up this stuff.

By the way, this is very common among "new" religions...they steal from older religions whatever they find useful.

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[Latin America]

Why are you against God RedStar?

I believe in god and I belive I wrotte it down in the chit chat section 2 years ago and I still believe in God today.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Latin [email protected] 19 2005, 10:01 AM
Why are you against God RedStar?

I believe in god and I belive I wrotte it down in the chit chat section 2 years ago and I still believe in God today.
I am not "against God" -- it would be pointless to be "against" something that doesn&#39;t exist.

I am against all forms of belief in the supernatural.

1. Because those beliefs are irrational...and lead to irrational behavior.

2. The most common form of that irrational behavior is the establishment of organized religions.

3. And those religions are 99.999% socially reactionary...in both word and deed.

I am disappointed that you have been here for two years and still have not yet managed to "kick the God habit". At least in your case, we have evidently not been doing a very good job.

So tell us why you still believe...and we&#39;ll try (or at least I will try) to help you "kill the priest in your head".

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[Orange Juche]

Yes, I believe in divinity. As a Wiccan, I believe in the God and the Goddess and what have you. But really, I view all religions as different colors of the same rainbow... different paths towards the same truth, although some are oppressive and reactionary (which of course, is not a good thing)

[Orange Juche]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 11:35 AM
So tell us why you still believe...and we&#39;ll try (or at least I will try) to help you "kill the priest in your head".
Or you could stop attempting to be oppressive and let him believes what he wants.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by MeetingPeopleIsEasy+May 19 2005, 10:47 AM--> (MeetingPeopleIsEasy @ May 19 2005, 10:47 AM)
[email protected] 19 2005, 11:35 AM
So tell us why you still believe...and we&#39;ll try (or at least I will try) to help you "kill the priest in your head".
Or you could stop attempting to be oppressive and let him believes what he wants. [/b]
Sure...if I didn&#39;t give a shit about whether people were slaves to crap, I could just shrug and walk away.

I guess that&#39;s what you do, right?

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[Orange Juche]

Originally posted by redstar2000+May 19 2005, 12:07 PM--> (redstar2000 @ May 19 2005, 12:07 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 10:47 AM

[email protected] 19 2005, 11:35 AM
So tell us why you still believe...and we&#39;ll try (or at least I will try) to help you "kill the priest in your head".
Or you could stop attempting to be oppressive and let him believes what he wants.
Sure...if I didn&#39;t give a shit about whether people were slaves to crap, I could just shrug and walk away.

I guess that&#39;s what you do, right?

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif [/b]
I don&#39;t view all religious people as being "slaves" to "crap," because I&#39;m not as arrogant and close-minded as yourself.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by MeetingPeopleIsEasy
I don&#39;t view all religious people as being "slaves" to "crap," because I&#39;m not as arrogant and close-minded as yourself.

Goody for you.

That wins an extra link for your WWJD bracelet and a first-class ticket for the "Rapture".

Enjoy your trip.

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[Vallegrande]

Much of what was said in the Bible has been written into the "King James Bible" which was distorted, and the King signed his approval. And guess what, that same bible is being preached all over the U.S. And that bible is not even true.

So tell me where are the values of the Christians when they have kept this bible as the true one? I would like to see an end to the King James Bible because it is a false book that has been made for the benefit of the few.

[Latin America]

redstar2000 Posted on May 19 2005, 03:35 PM
I am not "against God" -- it would be pointless to be "against" something that doesn&#39;t exist.

I am against all forms of belief in the supernatural.

1. Because those beliefs are irrational...and lead to irrational behavior.

2. The most common form of that irrational behavior is the establishment of organized religions.

3. And those religions are 99.999% socially reactionary...in both word and deed.

I am disappointed that you have been here for two years and still have not yet managed to "kick the God habit". At least in your case, we have evidently not been doing a very good job.

So tell us why you still believe...and we&#39;ll try (or at least I will try) to help you "kill the priest in your head".


I know how you feel Red Star, I even feel churches sucks (A lot of them) so I end up reading and studing the Bible by myself. Churches make a lot of money in hole American continent that&#39;s for sure It seem the hole point of helping poor people its gone, Religion this a bussines this days. History has some real bad stories about the church too, I know that myself; they came in the name of God fucking my country up with Spanish conquest.

But After all this I still believe there is something supernatural that create us, sorry but I don&#39;t belive we just came from cells one day, to me that&#39;s bullshit&#33; But I respect peoples opinion so I don&#39;t argue with anyone about it. I believe once you diethere is a heaven and hell, I believe when you are alive if you did good things once you die you get good things but if you have done bad things you are going to get bad things. It sound fair right RedStar? I just can&#39;t belive that all these bad guys all thru history that did terrible things are just dead with no punishment.

There is a quote from Fidel Castro that I like a lot:
"There is a great concurrence between Christianity&#39;s objectives and the ones we communists seek, between the Christian teachings of humility, austerity, selflessness and loving thy neighbor and what we might call the content of a revolutionary&#39;s life and behavior. " ---Fidel Castro

Sorry to disappointe you RedStar but I stay where I stand and I am not willing to change.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Latin [email protected] 19 2005, 03:14 PM
Sorry to disappointe you RedStar but I stay where I stand and I am not willing to change.
It seems you two at least have your dogmatism in common.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Vallegrande
Much of what was said in the Bible has been written into the "King James Bible" which was distorted, and the King signed his approval...I would like to see an end to the King James Bible because it is a false book that has been made for the benefit of the few.

There have been many translations of the "Bible" since the 17th century...but I know of no serious discrepancies between any of them.

Certainly, no one has ever come up with anything that completely reverses the meaning of any passage.

The "Bible" really does say those bad things...in any translation.

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[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Latin America+--> (Latin America)But After all this I still believe there is something supernatural that create us, sorry but I don&#39;t believe we just came from cells one day, to me that&#39;s bullshit&#33;[/b]

Why do you consider the idea that modern humans evolved from primitive cells to be "bullshit"?

There&#39;s tons of evidence to support the idea...have you actually looked at books that discuss "evolution for beginners"?

I think if you did, you&#39;d gradually realize that the theory makes sense.

On the other hand, there isn&#39;t so much as a scrap of evidence that supports "supernatural creation"...or even the existence of the supernatural at all.

What good do you do yourself by believing in things that don&#39;t exist...when you could actually learn about things that do exist?

If the books written by Stephen J. Gould have been translated into Spanish, I think they would be a good place to start.


I just can&#39;t believe that all these bad guys all thru history that did terrible things are just dead with no punishment.

Yes, I suppose that&#39;s a tough one to swallow...the universe is indifferent to our deeds, good or evil.

On the other hand, suppose the universe were not indifferent...and we were punished for every "bad thing" that we did during our lives?

Well...who of us is "without sin"? Who of us has never fucked up and done harm to others?

We&#39;d all go to Hell&#33; :o

And further, what of all those killed in natural disasters? If the universe is indifferent, then it&#39;s just "bad luck".

But if the universe were not indifferent, then what did all those people do to deserve sudden execution?

How come rocks don&#39;t fall out of the sky on Bush and his team? They all surely deserve it...so why not them instead of little kids and babies in south Asia?


Fidel Castro
There is a great concurrence between Christianity&#39;s objectives and the ones we communists seek, between the Christian teachings of humility, austerity, selflessness and loving thy neighbor and what we might call the content of a revolutionary&#39;s life and behavior.

Yeah, he&#39;s really been spewing the crap lately, hasn&#39;t he? Did you read his eulogy of the last pope? Disgraceful&#33;

Anyway, I vehemently disagree with his conception of "a revolutionary&#39;s life". Communism is not about being a "saint".

Most particularly, it is not about humility&#33;

Communists do not grovel in the muck before the great edifice of social reality; we stand up on our feet, figure it out, and then change it.

We say bluntly, let our will be done on earth&#33;

And we&#39;ll see how we do.

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[Vallegrande]

I believe once you die there is a heaven and hell, I believe when you are alive if you did good things once you die you get good things but if you have done bad things you are going to get bad things. It sound fair right

But we&#39;ve done both good and evil, it seems we would go both to hell and heaven.
Hell and heaven in my view are not eternal, just temporary life conditions.

[Colombia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 05:07 PM

Hell and heaven in my view are not eternal, just temporary life conditions.
And then where do you go in your views?

[Vallegrande]

QUOTE (Vallegrande @ May 20 2005, 05:07 PM)

Hell and heaven in my view are not eternal, just temporary life conditions.


And then where do you go in your views?

Im just saying there is no heaven without hell and no hell without heaven. There is a middle way in between these two worlds. But there is an old philosophy of the "ten worlds" of our life conditions, which are:
Hell, Hunger, Animality, Anger, Rapture (Heaven), Tranquility These are the six paths that humans tend to go to uncontrollably.

The other four paths are Learning, Realization, Bodhisattva, Buddhahood, which we create from our own efforts to improve our lives, in order to not be controlled by these six lower paths. Aside from this buddhist concept, we can consider Bodhisattva to be one who helps others in their suffering, to take on other people&#39;s suffering. Jesus was a Bodhisattva in those terms. And buddhahood is the middle way between all these life conditions, which Jesus strived for, though he wasn&#39;t buddhist. One doesn&#39;t have to call these words buddhahood or bodhisattva.

But these life conditions are temporary in that we go back and forth through these conditions. So hell and heaven are eternal, but not eternal. We have to understand that hell and heaven will not go away, but that they cannot control us when we find this "middle path", or buddhahood. These life conditions of hell and heaven, etc, are important in that earthly desires lead to enlightment. So heaven is not even the goal in my opinion. It&#39;s buddhahood, or the middle way. It is the middle way that encompasses these 10 worlds together.

This is my view on why heaven and hell are not eternal. Hell exists within heaven and vice versa, so they are inseparable.

[Che1990]

What&#39;s this about Castro being christian? He was raised by his family as a christian but he is in fact an atheist, he said it himself. I am an atheist and a Castroist, if Castro believed in God he wouldn&#39;t be running a Communist (well, not so much communist anymore) country.

[redstar2000]

Castro Pays Homage to a Dead Pope (http://redstar2000papers.com/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1114436908&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&)

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[The Apathetic Atheist]

I really love how Christians go for the Old English words like they make them more holy. "...loving thy neighbor..." Why would you use modern language and then pull a "thy" out of your ass? I thought The Bible had been translated. What is this nonsense?

[El_Revolucionario]

Originally posted by The Apathetic [email protected] 28 2005, 02:51 AM
I really love how Christians go for the Old English words like they make them more holy. "...loving thy neighbor..." Why would you use modern language and then pull a "thy" out of your ass? I thought The Bible had been translated. What is this nonsense?
Actually, that&#39;s Early Modern English. Old English is the language written in Beowulf, Middle English is the one written in Canterbury Tales. And Early Modern English is the one written in Shakespeare and the Bible, sometimes called "Elizabethan English".

[C_Rasmussen]

I voted yes I believe in God.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 11:30 PM
I voted yes I believe in God.
That&#39;s a shame. :(

If there&#39;s anything we can do to help, just ask. :)

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[anonymous red]

not sure.

[Idealist phreak]

I somewhat believe in god, but I could categorized as "apathetic christian". :D

Apathetic agnosticism is some form of agnosticism (apathetic agnosticism (aka ignosticism or apatheism) — the view that the question of the existence of deities is meaningless because it has no verifiable consequences.)

So I dont really know which I am more agnostic or christian, bit both I guess. I voted "not sure".

I think Im turning towards ignosticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism)/apatheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism)

[mwolf]

No; I&#39;m an Atheist.

[Snowblind]

I am god, simple as that. Yes I will rule with a "peaceful" fist of "flowers", and I will "Fight" for "Peace" and then teach young children who follow me to "fuck" for "abstinance".

No. I don&#39;t believe in god. I openly insult most who do; I respect few who have the belief. I respect the only ones who can have a legit reason, not ask a bunch of stupid questions, not act like they know what they are talking about, continuely argue over the same stupid shit; etc.


I noticed there is a good chunk of people here who do believe, to the questions you may have for me...

Why don&#39;t you believe in him?
-Her? No, I won&#39;t tell you.

Why won&#39;t you tell me?
-Because I don&#39;t feel like arguing

Well, how do you think everything was created?
-Not going to answer.

*insert another stupid question here*
-Leave me alone

Well, how do you think everything was created?
-Not going to answer.

Why don&#39;t you believe in him?
-Her? No, I won&#39;t tell you.

^I had a convo go similar to that one, she asked the same questions over and over again, if you got a kick out of that, message me on AIM and I can give you more details.

[mo7amEd]

yes i belive in god..&#33;

[romanm]

What is this the goddamn middle ages?

I&#39;ll make this real easy to understand:

God is make believe. Kind of like the tooth fairy or the Easter Bunny (and, no they aren&#39;t real).

The scentific revolution is over. Get over it.

[mo7amEd]

romanm:

that was so stupid that im not even going to argue with u...

[red_orchestra]

The Universe has fixed parameters when it comes to the manipulation of matter and energy. An entity that does not fit into the confinds of space-time, nor follows the rules of fundamental physics simply cannot exist. Therefore GOD as an external being is myth...and therefore must be an internal force or a construct of mind.

[Anarcho-Communist]

There is nothing to believe in, it has only been said in writings. No one can be 100% sure that he is real.

[Led Zeppelin]

No, i am enlightened.

[Vallegrande]

I don&#39;t accept the idea that we are just waiting to go to another place as this one is headed towards hell. It&#39;s like saying we can dump all our trash here until its time for us to die and go to heaven, and so we can forget about all that we have done. Bullshit. We will come back and see what our past actions have created for us. Bush will be not be born in Heaven, but in a place he has created himself.

Thinking something to be only outside of us is detrimental. It is both coming from inside of us and outside of us. God cannot exist without our presence, having no power without us to recognize.

[mo7amEd]

Originally posted by Anarcho&#045;[email protected] 2 2005, 07:27 AM
There is nothing to believe in, it has only been said in writings. No one can be 100% sure that he is real.
thats y its called a BELIEF... u belive in something.

[Publius]

The Universe has fixed parameters when it comes to the manipulation of matter and energy. An entity that does not fit into the confinds of space-time, nor follows the rules of fundamental physics simply cannot exist. Therefore GOD as an external being is myth...and therefore must be an internal force or a construct of mind.

Unless the being created those parameters, or exists outside of them.

[The Grey Blur]

My view on it is that there isa God. So, when I get to Heaven he&#39;ll pat me on the back and say &#39;WELL DONE RAGE, LOOK AT THE HEATHENS BURNING IN FIERY PITS OF DOOM&#39;. But, if I die and nothing happens, thats fine as well.

BTW, this is strictly minimalist, you don&#39;t have to actually do religous stuff, you just go about believing in the back of your head.

P.S; no one let God in on the secret. :unsure:

[evolution of a rebel mind]

I voted yes

The problem i have is religion, because it can be so easily twisted for someone or groups self interest.

the bible have so many contradiction i can understand why one would not believe in god.

so for myself, i put it like this there is good/evil in the world and there has to be a place or a source of origin.

[emma gg]

why do i have to believe in HIM? can i not believe in HER? or even them, for that matter? i don&#39;t believe in anyone else&#39;s god, and religion sucks ass. :ph34r:

[emma gg]

Originally posted by El_Revolucionario+Jun 5 2005, 05:47 AM--> (El_Revolucionario @ Jun 5 2005, 05:47 AM)
The Apathetic [email protected] 28 2005, 02:51 AM
I really love how Christians go for the Old English words like they make them more holy. "...loving thy neighbor..." Why would you use modern language and then pull a "thy" out of your ass? I thought The Bible had been translated. What is this nonsense?
Actually, that&#39;s Early Modern English. Old English is the language written in Beowulf, Middle English is the one written in Canterbury Tales. And Early Modern English is the one written in Shakespeare and the Bible, sometimes called "Elizabethan English". [/b]
u r a nerd&#33;
:lol:
i love it &#33;
on another note, let me respond to the scientific argument. believing in science and god are almost the same, except one uses data and reason, and the other uses faith and emotion. new testamenters like to tell us that our understanding is faulty, so we need to leave the thinking to god. i think that&#39;s lazy and silly. science, however, tells us that emotion and intuition are worthless unless the can be quantified, measured and repeated. (my argument&#39;s a bit pedantic, but stay with me) however, this is also silly. scientists have faith too, just a different kind. and most religions depend on some kind of proof of god, so they rely on data collection and reduction as well. so who&#39;s to say which one is more valid. they both bring enlightenment and death. they both exist in a state of arrogance and conceit. best to trust neither completely, sez me.

[emma gg]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 09:06 PM

The Universe has fixed parameters when it comes to the manipulation of matter and energy. An entity that does not fit into the confinds of space-time, nor follows the rules of fundamental physics simply cannot exist. Therefore GOD as an external being is myth...and therefore must be an internal force or a construct of mind.

Unless the being created those parameters, or exists outside of them.
yeah, but those "fundamentals" are constantly being redefined. newtonian physics was fundamental for 400 years, now we know that it was insufficient.

and as far as creating those parameters, good luck with that one. i think existing outside of them IS existing in one&#39;s mind, just like our whole concept of the beginning of the universe. belief in "god" and the big bang, just faith in different temporal realities...

[Bannockburn]

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggust the there is a God. Any argument is not rationaly but based on emotional sentiments, and largely based on supersition.

[Donnie]

I&#39;m a staunch atheist and have been for ages. I can&#39;t see how it&#39;s logical to believe in a higher supreme being. I think I will stick with the materialist view on things.

As Bakunin said if god did exist it would be necessary to abolish him.

[anomaly]

I believe in some &#39;higher power&#39;, but I personally think any organized religion is simply a way to gain power over others (think of the power the Pope has...). If there is no God, how did matter itself come into being? We can take scientific theory all the way back to the big bang, and yet we still don&#39;t have an answer of how that bang occured, where the matter involved originated, and tehn, by extension, how we are here. I accept evolution and the big bang as fact, of course, but one still must ask where matter itself comes from. I&#39;ll bcome an athiest when you atheists can create matter out of thin air. Many scientists, in fact, have believed in God, many today have said that the idea of God fits with the modern view of the universe. It is no &#39;sin&#39; to be a communist (which I am) and a theist (which I am).

I might as well mention that I don&#39;t believe in any &#39;Christian&#39; God, nor a &#39;Muslim&#39; Allah, nor a &#39;Hindu&#39; Brahman, nor a &#39;Jewish&#39; Yahweh. Personally, I feel all these religions are partly correct (in that there is some higher power), but the &#39;variations&#39; each makes are both untrue and unimportant. I particularly despise the Christian religion. Like I said, all organized religions are as bad as political parties in that they make you toe the line, and thus never find truth (or what you perceive as truth). They stop you from &#39;knowing thyself&#39; as Socrates would say.

[red_orchestra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 08:30 PM
There is no evidence whatsoever to suggust the there is a God. Any argument is not rationaly but based on emotional sentiments, and largely based on supersition.
I think that statement correctly sums up my feelings towards a GOD.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting that Buddhism completely rejects the notion of GOD completely and asks people think for themselves. Its an interesting approach to religion...wouldn&#39;t you say?

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 01:52 AM
I believe in some &#39;higher power&#39;, but I personally think any organized religion is simply a way to gain power over others (think of the power the Pope has...).
I used to think something similar to that.


If there is no God, how did matter itself come into being?

What makes gravity work? We can&#39;t say for sure but does that too mean "God" exists?
People didn&#39;t always understand that the stars where giant masses of fusion irradiated gas... does that still mean "God" exists?


We can take scientific theory all the way back to the big bang, and yet we still don&#39;t have an answer of how that bang occured, where the matter involved originated, and tehn, by extension, how we are here.

True but "God" doesn&#39;t really help either. What is "God?" Where did "God" come from... more damn questions.
Picking what to believe is only a comforting self-deception; forgive me if I am being a bit to honest.


I accept evolution and the big bang as fact, of course, but one still must ask where matter itself comes from.

They are actually theories. I addressed that matter in the thread... first link in my signature; you may also find the subject-matter interesting.


I&#39;ll bcome an athiest when you atheists can create matter out of thin air.

I will become one when I am convinced there is no "God," but as of now I see no reason to believe either way.


Many scientists, in fact, have believed in God, many today have said that the idea of God fits with the modern view of the universe.

True; though the "the god concept" violates scientific method, that doesn&#39;t mean you cannot be a scientist ;)


It is no &#39;sin&#39; to be a communist (which I am) and a theist (which I am).

I agree comrade :D


They stop you from &#39;knowing thyself&#39; as Socrates would say.

Interesting; self actualization is important :)

[anomaly]

Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Jul 27 2005, 03:15 AM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Jul 27 2005, 03:15 AM)
[email protected] 27 2005, 01:52 AM
I believe in some &#39;higher power&#39;, but I personally think any organized religion is simply a way to gain power over others (think of the power the Pope has...).
I used to think something similar to that.


If there is no God, how did matter itself come into being?

What makes gravity work? We can&#39;t say for sure but does that too mean "God" exists?
People didn&#39;t always understand that the stars where giant masses of fusion irradiated gas... does that still mean "God" exists?


We can take scientific theory all the way back to the big bang, and yet we still don&#39;t have an answer of how that bang occured, where the matter involved originated, and tehn, by extension, how we are here.

True but "God" doesn&#39;t really help either. What is "God?" Where did "God" come from... more damn questions.
Picking what to believe is only a comforting self-deception; forgive me if I am being a bit to honest.


I accept evolution and the big bang as fact, of course, but one still must ask where matter itself comes from.

They are actually theories. I addressed that matter in the thread... first link in my signature; you may also find the subject-matter interesting.


I&#39;ll bcome an athiest when you atheists can create matter out of thin air.

I will become one when I am convinced there is no "God," but as of now I see no reason to believe either way.


Many scientists, in fact, have believed in God, many today have said that the idea of God fits with the modern view of the universe.

True; though the "the god concept" violates scientific method, that doesn&#39;t mean you cannot be a scientist ;)


It is no &#39;sin&#39; to be a communist (which I am) and a theist (which I am).

I agree comrade :D


They stop you from &#39;knowing thyself&#39; as Socrates would say.

Interesting; self actualization is important :) [/b]
So, you seem to have much faith in science. If it doesn&#39;t pass the (holy) scientific method, it isn&#39;t truth, right? Well, the problem with that is it gives no answers that are truly important (for example, the question of God). Science will never explain everything, therefore this faith you exhibit is quite unfounded. This &#39;leftover&#39; &#39;stuff&#39; that science cannot explain is an opening for the idea of God.

&#39;Where did God come from&#39;-If we accept that God is supernatural (if god exists, of course), then such questions are easily answered. God created itself, perhaps. When dealing with such a being, there is no impossible.

[Vallegrande]

Has anyone noticed that people are relying more on Jesus rather than God? It&#39;s become this way in a lot of churches. It seems that God and Jesus are the same now.

[Clarksist]

Has anyone noticed that people are relying more on Jesus rather than God? It&#39;s become this way in a lot of churches. It seems that God and Jesus are the same now.


They are balancing on one side of the crutches more. It ebbs and flows.

Eventually they will learnt hrough pure logic that neither can possibly exist, except Jesus may have but in a completely different manner.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 12:30 AM
So, you seem to have much faith in science.
There is no faith to it; scientific method is the logical measure of reality. Without logic all we can do is "decide" what to believe and make inane correlations up.


If it doesn&#39;t pass the (holy) scientific method, it isn&#39;t truth, right?

How insulting; I didn&#39;t call you a dogmatist, ignorant or anything of the sort :angry:

If a claim has no proof, it is not based on fact and as such, deserves no consideration.


Well, the problem with that is it gives no answers that are truly important (for example, the question of God).

What good are all the answers in the world if you cannot say they are necessarily true?


Science will never explain everything, therefore this faith you exhibit is quite unfounded.

I have no faith and I have looked to "God" in my life but received NO answers, only propaganda.


This &#39;leftover&#39; &#39;stuff&#39; that science cannot explain is an opening for the idea of God.

I agree but does this make it valid?


&#39;Where did God come from&#39;-If we accept that God is supernatural (if god exists, of course), then such questions are easily answered. God created itself, perhaps. When dealing with such a being, there is no impossible.

Sure; but why would you assume a god exists and why does making up answers satisfy your curiosity?

[Vallegrande]

What I don&#39;t get is that the only way to reach God is through Jesus. Now that makes it limited to who has access to God. Jesus reached God through himself, why can&#39;t any other human do so? Beside the thing about Jesus being the son of God, well, I think we all are too. In reality, though, Jesus was just human, as was Buddha (except Buddha got the chance to tell people that the power was inside themselves). And Jesus probably did things back then that we would all consider a sin today, because sin changes depending on our perceptions.


I have no faith and I have looked to "God" in my life but received NO answers, only propaganda.
That&#39;s why I believe that God is only a reflection of us. Asking God for an answer is actually asking yourself for the answer.

[rebelafrika]

Do I believe in God? Nope.

[anomaly]

Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Jul 28 2005, 02:24 AM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Jul 28 2005, 02:24 AM)
[email protected] 28 2005, 12:30 AM
So, you seem to have much faith in science.
There is no faith to it; scientific method is the logical measure of reality. Without logic all we can do is "decide" what to believe and make inane correlations up.


If it doesn&#39;t pass the (holy) scientific method, it isn&#39;t truth, right?

How insulting; I didn&#39;t call you a dogmatist, ignorant or anything of the sort :angry:

If a claim has no proof, it is not based on fact and as such, deserves no consideration.


Well, the problem with that is it gives no answers that are truly important (for example, the question of God).

What good are all the answers in the world if you cannot say they are necessarily true?


Science will never explain everything, therefore this faith you exhibit is quite unfounded.

I have no faith and I have looked to "God" in my life but received NO answers, only propaganda.


This &#39;leftover&#39; &#39;stuff&#39; that science cannot explain is an opening for the idea of God.

I agree but does this make it valid?


&#39;Where did God come from&#39;-If we accept that God is supernatural (if god exists, of course), then such questions are easily answered. God created itself, perhaps. When dealing with such a being, there is no impossible.

Sure; but why would you assume a god exists and why does making up answers satisfy your curiosity? [/b]
You have already &#39;decided&#39; that truth is determined only by the scientific method. That is placing tremendous faith in the scientific mathod, and thus science itself.

I&#39;m simply looking for a good debate here, comrade. No need to get pissed.

These &#39;answeres&#39; that can&#39;t be proven true are quite important. They are called beliefs. You &#39;believe&#39; that the scientific method holds a monopoly on truth, but this very belief cannot be proven (simply because of the question of God). I &#39;believe&#39; I&#39;m going to wake up tomorrow morning (OK...afternoon), and thus I spend this evening as if it is unimportant. These beliefs are extremely important because they guide your life.

Who says God is listening? Perhaps God is just a kid with an ant farm? I have too long looked to the wonders of science for answers, but, like I said, found no good answers. BTW, what propaganda have you received? If its Christian (or Islamic or Jewish) propaganda, throw this propaganda away. These religions make one toe the line just as any political party would, and thus they cage you. How can we receive enlightenment if we are locked in such a cage?

"I agree, but does this make it valid"- I say yes, you say no, and so we (like humans have been for millions of years) are debating.

When did I ever say that my belief in God satisfied my curiosity? I think this faith has helped me move on to other questions, like what is the nature of this God? Ae those &#39;other&#39; theists right? and so on. I do not &#39;assume&#39; a God exists. I have struggled with the question for a long, long time. For awhile, I was an atheist. Then, I turned agnostic once I was convinced science didn&#39;t hold all the answers. Now, I look at science&#39;s shortcomings and see a logical place in which to place a &#39;God&#39;. So, I haven&#39;t assumed anything, I personally have determined that some sort of God must exist.

[anomaly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 02:39 AM
What I don&#39;t get is that the only way to reach God is through Jesus. Now that makes it limited to who has access to God. Jesus reached God through himself, why can&#39;t any other human do so? Beside the thing about Jesus being the son of God, well, I think we all are too. In reality, though, Jesus was just human, as was Buddha (except Buddha got the chance to tell people that the power was inside themselves). And Jesus probably did things back then that we would all consider a sin today, because sin changes depending on our perceptions.


I have no faith and I have looked to "God" in my life but received NO answers, only propaganda.
That&#39;s why I believe that God is only a reflection of us. Asking God for an answer is actually asking yourself for the answer.
Who ever said that the only way of getting to God is &#39;through&#39; Jesus? That is a Christian teaching, not a generally theist one. I reject most Christian teachings, and this happens to be one of them. The problem with Christianity is that it awards right belief, not right life (whatever that may be). Such complexities have made me reject the idea of hell. Why would an Intelligent God choose to send Gandhi or Buddha to hell? It simply doesn&#39;t add up.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by anomaly
Why would an Intelligent God choose to send Gandhi or Buddha to hell?

Because they were boring?

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[anomaly]

God punishes those he finds boring? I suppose you believe any God either sends people to &#39;hell&#39; or &#39;heaven&#39; (hypothetically, of course, your being an atheist and all)?

God is a militant? Haha&#33;

[mo7amEd]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Jul 30 2005, 02:02 PM--> (redstar2000 @ Jul 30 2005, 02:02 PM)
anomaly
Why would an Intelligent God choose to send Gandhi or Buddha to hell?

Because they were boring?

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif [/b]
Are we being seriuos or was that a joke? If it was I don&#39;t have to answer.

[viva le revolution]

Myself i am a practicing muslim. so yes i do believe in God.

[Ultra-Violence]

NO&#33; :hammer:

[timbaly]

Just wanted to chime in and say "no" for the record.

[Che NJ]

I wish he did exist, but I&#39;m pretty sure he doesn&#39;t. :(

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Che [email protected] 26 2005, 12:55 PM
I wish he did exist, but I&#39;m pretty sure he doesn&#39;t. :(
Who is to say? There is really no reason to pretend or care... you&#39;ll know when you die or you wont, our lives go on and the "God consept" is irrelivant.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Its doesn&#39;t concern me because there isn&#39;t a basis if god exists or not, all I&#39;m concerned with is making Earth a better place.

[Sanjee]

Yes...
He made human beeings too dicide for theme selves what&#39;s good and what&#39;s wrong, and to help them a little bit he made religion...

[Lord Testicles]

no religion was invented to generate welth and power for people at the top

[DaRk-OnE]

No because there is no evidence to prove his existence , but there is lots of evidence to say their is no god.

[Sanjee]

What evidence is there than??
Non of those evidence is 100% true.....

[Lord Testicles]

Even though i dont belive in god(s), Sanjee is right there is no evidence to prove there is a god(s) and there is no evidence to say there isnt one. But if there is one you have to ask yourself do you really want to worship a god(s) who lets so much pain and suffering occur? or a god(s) that is so weak that it cant do anything about it?

[Sanjee]

I don&#39;t know..if god ( if he exicsts ) does want to help me, with all of my problems, because why else did he give me the power to think??
And religion is something that god has send to people to help them to not go do bad things...

At least that&#39;s how I think about this...

[Wasted7]

If there is a christian god we&#39;re all screwed because in hell there is eternal suffering but in heaven there is no free will

[drain.you]

I dont believe in any God or Goddess, or any supernatural power infact.
I believe after we die, there is nothing, like there was nothing before birth.
Cant prove that, its just what I believe.
I think religious texts contradict themselves too much to be true.
I also think that the world would be better if God/Goddess existed.
I dunno. I can&#39;t really justify it. I can&#39;t even say I don&#39;t like the idea of a supernatural being because they are in power since I want to believe in fate and not freewill. I dunno. I think its a personal choice and only means something to the individual, unless...you are really religious and don&#39;t want to associate with atheist scum like me :P

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 04:49 AM
You have already &#39;decided&#39; that truth is determined only by the scientific method. That is placing tremendous faith in the scientific mathod, and thus science itself.
There is no "faith" involved there; do you know what faith means?


faith (fāth)
n.

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one&#39;s supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God&#39;s will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

You obviously aren’t referring to the first definition, so your application is inane.

If you did mean the first definition though, your word usage is indescript to the point of uselessness.


I&#39;m simply looking for a good debate here, comrade. No need to get pissed.

You should expect someone to be annoyed when you insinuate they are dogmatic without any valid reasoning.


These &#39;answeres&#39; that can&#39;t be proven true are quite important. They are called beliefs. You &#39;believe&#39; that the scientific method holds a monopoly on truth, but this very belief cannot be proven (simply because of the question of God).

Not at all; I do not hold such faith; I simply see the merit in scientific theory not a "monopoly on truth," that would be a dogmatic assertion and as I have said, I am not a dogmatist.


Who says God is listening? Perhaps God is just a kid with an ant farm? I have too long looked to the wonders of science for answers, but, like I said, found no good answers. BTW, what propaganda have you received? If its Christian (or Islamic or Jewish) propaganda, throw this propaganda away. These religions make one toe the line just as any political party would, and thus they cage you. How can we receive enlightenment if we are locked in such a cage?

Yes, conservative fundamentalist shit as it were. I see not reason to believe in god; faith is an inane concept. Believing what you want and living delusionaly may have some benefits but understanding reality isn&#39;t one of them and that has been a priority of mine as long as I can remember. If I observe supernatural activity, I will take it into consideration, until then I wont dilute myself.


When did I ever say that my belief in God satisfied my curiosity? I think this faith has helped me move on to other questions, like what is the nature of this God? Ae those &#39;other&#39; theists right? and so on. I do not &#39;assume&#39; a God exists. I have struggled with the question for a long, long time. For awhile, I was an atheist. Then, I turned agnostic once I was convinced science didn&#39;t hold all the answers.

Moving on from one unfalsifiable question to another is not progress, it is inane and pointless. An rational agnostic doesn&#39;t get "convinced science didn&#39;t hold all the answers," without proof; please show your proof.


Now, I look at science&#39;s shortcomings and see a logical place in which to place a &#39;God&#39;. So, I haven&#39;t assumed anything, I personally have determined that some sort of God must exist.

You have assumed a place for "God," and you demonstrate your non-usage of scientific method by failing to posit explain why you claim shortcomings exist in science.

[Martyr]

Absoulutly I do believe

[Zingu]

I don&#39;t care if he exists or not.


Its just religon I want to get rid off, then we can worry of god. :lol:

[RebelOutcast]

No I don&#39;t believe in god, Simply because I have no reason to, there&#39;s never been a situation in my life where I&#39;ve had to believe that a higher power intervened.
Even if such a being did exist, it wouldn&#39;t have my faith, simply because of all the bad things that happen in the world.

[anomaly]

I believe in God, but not the Christian God (simply because I despise the idea of a &#39;hell&#39;). Also, this &#39;problem of evil&#39; you atheists bring up can be solved, I think, with the existence of free will. God gave man free will so that good can exist, but if there are &#39;good&#39; things, there must be evil things. And all this &#39;bad&#39; we see in the world can be attributed to this fact.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 23 2005, 08:23 AM






Not at all; I do not hold such faith; I simply see the merit in scientific theory not a "monopoly on truth," that would be a dogmatic assertion and as I have said, I am not a dogmatist.Fair enough.


If I observe supernatural activity, I will take it into consideration, until then I wont dilute myself.This assumes empiricism is correct, and negates the possibility that supernatural activity exists outside of an empirically possible realm.


Moving on from one unfalsifiable question to another is not progress, it is inane and pointless. An rational agnostic doesn&#39;t get "convinced science didn&#39;t hold all the answers," without proof; please show your proof.Whilst I dislike the line of argument that has been taken here, there is still a basis for a better one. I know I am repeating myself here, as I have in other threads, but science relies on inductive reason, just as religion relies on faith. If you study them you will see that whilst inductive reasoning is more logical than faith, they aren&#39;t completely seperate.

[Un-Amära&#1082;in Bastard]

I believe in some form of a spiritual being, not necessarily any god of the Bible or C&#39;urahn (Koran) or anything, just some being that causes the Big Bangs, differently every time, and makes conditions happen according to what will allow human or intelligent life. I believe it really doesn&#39;t give too much of a rat&#39;s ass about what we do, but intervenes occasionally to make itself known...

[Bugalu Shrimp]

I don&#39;t beleive in not him.

[Red Leader]

To me, God only exists in the sense that he created the universe, because i cant comprehend all this shit coming from nothing, however that is the extent of my believe in him (it?). I do not think he can hear our prayers, or perform miricles or intereact with us in any way. If he was so great and created the whole universe, why does he bother with only our planet? And besides, christians say that he is so powerfull that we cannot understand him. Kind of like how an ant could not possibly understand a human. So how could we possibly &#39;speak&#39; to god? I do not believe in organized religion, which has corrupted the god concept and turned it into man&#39;s twisted need for forgivness or recohnition in the afterlife.

[Comrade J]

Out of all religious arguments in favour of God, the must flawed must be the &#39;how can something come from nothing?&#39; question. Well the question is reverseable, the same can be asked about God. And there is nothing to say that a small amount of matter hasn&#39;t always been there... it is beyond human conception of time to imagine the eternal existence of something, but many argue that God has always been there, so I see no reason why matter can&#39;t always have been there.
Still, as much faith as I place in Science, I don&#39;t believe in the &#39;Big Bang&#39; theory, and if Scientists still can&#39;t prove it&#39;s happened within the next.... 5 years I think, they are going to dismiss it and concentrate more on several alternative theories. They have been trying many years to collide several particles together to show a desired reaction that would prove the Big Bang theory was possible, but it&#39;s not looking good so far.

[gilhyle]

The concept of God is a concept of an intelligence with existential significance for us.

Two points always strike me:

intelligence is a derived phenomenon, an evolutionary end-product, not an evolutionary starting point;

even if there is such an intelligence out there, I would owe it nothing - it has no existential significance for me even if it exists.

[Kittie Rose]

I&#39;m not sure what to vote... I hate when things are rigged for monotheist/completely anti-spiritual.

[Tormented by Treachery]

Yes, I do believe there is a God, although my school of thought has some Deist nature to it. I think it&#39;s beyond our comprehension, the concept of infinity and that there was no beginning and there will be no end. I think there must be a God, because whether the Big Bang is true or not, where did all of the universe&#39;s matter come from? A subatomic particle? Where did it come from itself? If the universe is expanding, what&#39;s it expanding into? I can&#39;t see the scientific possibility of an afterlife, but then again, exactly how a cell is able to store information (or rather, a series of cells) and capture a signal my optical nerve sent ten years ago, a vibration felt in my ear two months ago, something felt by my fingers yesterday, I don&#39;t understand how that is possible either. Is it that there is no answer and there is a God, or is it that there is no God but we have just not learned all there is to know? So it goes.

[Vladislav]

use to but stopped.

[patrick]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 10:10 PM
If there is a christian god we&#39;re all screwed because in hell there is eternal suffering but in heaven there is no free will
You seem pretty certain on things anyway. No free will? What you been chatting to God recently? Pretty screwed up remark Id say

[Iroquois Xavier]

Originally posted by patrick+Jan 25 2006, 12:16 PM--> (patrick @ Jan 25 2006, 12:16 PM)
[email protected] 22 2005, 10:10 PM
If there is a christian god we&#39;re all screwed because in hell there is eternal suffering but in heaven there is no free will
You seem pretty certain on things anyway. No free will? What you been chatting to God recently? Pretty screwed up remark Id say [/b]
I have spoken to God but he said he was just a figment of my imagination. So thats how the bible happened&#33; :rolleyes:

[Ol' Dirty]

The idea of a supreme being that has ultimate power over everything is an illogical idea that feeds off of fear, ignorance and hate. If you ask a lot of people why they believe in god, quite a few will say that they believe out of fear of hell, and many will say out of faith (a foolish idea, based without empirical fact).

Peace

[VonClausewitz]

I believe that Gods exist, but that they draw their powers from people.

[Hegemonicretribution]

The god for the annointed is created as a tautology, not ever loving, or nice, be as a perceived predicate for existence. The god of the masses was created as a convenient bastardisation of the other god, but it served the purposes of the ruling class.

Spiritual/non mainstream conceptions are usually taken on some kind of faith. Just like when you go for a shot, or eat out, but slightly more so. If we want to use faith without the confines of logic then great, but if you extend this accross all life I think reggression is likely.

[anomaly]

I used to believe in &#39;god&#39;, not long ago. Of course, much has changed since then. I no longer believe in any &#39;god&#39;, probably due, for the most part, to my new found interest in materialism. It is as if I have &#39;seen the light&#39;.

[Seong]

I believe in something bigger than me, dunno what it is. If humans and the void of space is it then we&#39;re really fucked.

Having said that this supreme being has done fuck all for me lately, but I figure it&#39;s best if I try and do that myself.

[Technocrates]

I believe in God and I think he is a lot better than people here paint him to be because he is a left-wing God.

[vox_populi]

I think that there is some sort of spirit in the universe. I don&#39;t think it has a conscience or that it created the universe. But i think that this spirit is the "spark of life", the thing that makes the electrons move around the protonsand neutrons. That it is the thing that makes everything live. And i believe that all living beings have a soul. And when you feel happy, in love...you know that feeling of complete happiness you feel that there is no worries and that life is great...that feeling is your soul being one with the spirit of the universe. And when you die your soul becomes one with the spirit.

[Tormented by Treachery]

I think a great part of the religion in the world is fear. We are afraid that once we die, we will be gone forever, and this life (akin to two blinks of the universe) will have meant nothing. I think that I would love there to be a God, a heaven and a hell, because I know I lead a virtuous life. But hope doesn&#39;t create truth, thus, those believing in an all-powerful God are only telling themselves its true because they are incapable of dealing with the cold confines of only one life.

[vox_populi]

I think a great part of the religion in the world is fear. We are afraid that once we die, we will be gone forever, and this life (akin to two blinks of the universe) will have meant nothing. I think that I would love there to be a God, a heaven and a hell, because I know I lead a virtuous life. But hope doesn&#39;t create truth, thus, those believing in an all-powerful God are only telling themselves its true because they are incapable of dealing with the cold confines of only one life.

"Since life and death are each other&#39;s companions, why worry about them? All beings are one." (Chuang-Tzu)

I don&#39;t think about the afterlife, I use my religion to make the time I have on earth as pleasant, harmonic and fullfilling as possible. So I think you&#39;re wrong :P

[ItalianCommie]

Dear comrades,

I actually believe that one of the saddest things I ever realized is that there is no god.

No limit at all to cruelty, greed, selfishness, oppresiveness, and many more plagues that today contaminate humanity... I swear I cried the day I concluded there is no God... Like a football game between cannibals with no referee. Well, that&#39;s life. I&#39;m kind of happy now to know that I don&#39;t make myself any illusions, that I reason with my own brain, not with someone else&#39;s.

We are alone people. We are just the product of chemical reactions. That is why in our weakness as humans we must stick together.

[bed_of_nails]

How can there be a god if such horrors as harlequin ichtyosis exist?

No.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2006, 11:12 PM
I believe in God and I think he is a lot better than people here paint him to be because he is a left-wing God.
And "He" sent Pol Pot to show us the way to salvation.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[Ligeia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 05:12 AM
[
And "He" sent Pol Pot to show us the way to salvation.


"He" doesn&#39;t do anything."He" absolutely does nothing,if you try to take the point that people got a free will,if we take it like that then you have to consider that this means "god" is a spectator and not more..that means you can believe in "him" or not...at the end it doesn&#39;t matter anything at all,whether if "he" exists or not,and whether you belive in "him" or not.

[Abood]

People argue that "u cant prove He exists, so He doesnt".. well..
can u prove He DOESN&#39;T exist?

[Sentinel]

People argue that "u cant prove He exists, so He doesnt".. well..
can u prove He DOESN&#39;T exist?

Who has the burden of proof? (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=45457)

[adenoid hynkel]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 10 2006, 04:51 PM
People argue that "u cant prove He exists, so He doesnt".. well..
can u prove He DOESN&#39;T exist?
I suppose that if I say that u are a serial killer you will answer to me
""u can&#39;t prove that I am a serial killer, so I am not"
well
Can you prove that YOU ARE NOT a serial killer?

[Abood]

u dont answer a question by asking another one :)

[Sentinel]

Socialist Advocate, your question has been answered a million times already:
The one who makes the positive assertion must prove himself right.

Read Lazar&#39;s excellent thread on this subject, the one I linked to.

[Ligeia]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 10 2006, 04:51 PM
People argue that "u cant prove He exists, so He doesnt".. well..
can u prove He DOESN&#39;T exist?
Does it matter?I can&#39;t prove he doesn&#39;t and I can&#39;t prove he does but does it matter,will it change anyone&#39;s life?

If you are an evangelic for example it would&#39;nt matter.Why?because our souls are already saved and God forgives everybody ,he doesn&#39;t want compulsion.

[Abood]

Does it matter?I can&#39;t prove he doesn&#39;t and I can&#39;t prove he does but does it matter,will it change anyone&#39;s life?
actually it does. if u believe in God, then u would follow one of the religions, or make ur own religion, which affects ur life, doesnt it?


The one who makes the positive assertion must prove himself right.
some people believe in everything except if it is proven otherwise.

[Ligeia]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 11 2006, 01:06 PM

actually it does. if u believe in God, then u would follow one of the religions, or make ur own religion, which affects ur life, doesnt it?


Well,it didn&#39;t.

And I&#39;m sure that for some religion shapes their lifes, if they join rituals and pray...etc.But that wasn&#39;t what I was trying to say.

I wanted to say that "God" doesn&#39;t interact in the world.There happen so many bad things on the world,would God want this misery for his children?
Well,and would he want to intervene if he was the one to give us a free will?No,he wouldn&#39;t ,as then it would&#39;nt be called free will,consequently it&#39;s like if God doesn&#39;t exist.Only in the mind of many religion followers,that&#39;s where he exists and then you could argue that it would affect my life,at least I would spend some minutes,seconds to think about "God" in the ceremonies or rituals or even in every day life but most won&#39;t do that.

[Abood]

at least I would spend some minutes,seconds to think about "God" in the ceremonies or rituals or even in every day life but most won&#39;t do that.
do u believe in God? and if u do, then what do u think his "role" is?

[Ligeia]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 11 2006, 03:41 PM

do u believe in God? and if u do, then what do u think his "role" is?
No,I don&#39;t.As a child I didn&#39;t know if I belonged to a religion, I didn&#39;t even know there are such things, nobody told me, so I didn&#39;t believed even then in one, although I was supposed to do that.
As this question arouse I was wondering what it was for,I talked with religious people,specialists,they couldn&#39;t tell me or give me a satisfactory answer.They said it didn&#39;t matter if I believed or not.

I once was taking partcipation in ceremonies,long ago but i really didnt know why,I thought it was just tradition,so don&#39;t ask me what "his" role is,I failed to see any sense in this, the maximum "role" he has is a spectator,that&#39;s a thought I had, to make things easier.

[Abood]

No,I don&#39;t.As a child I didn&#39;t know if I belonged to a religion, I didn&#39;t even know there are such things, nobody told me, so I didn&#39;t believed even then in one, although I was supposed to do that.

I once was taking partcipation in ceremonies,long ago but i really didnt know why,I thought it was just tradition,so don&#39;t ask me what "his" role is,I failed to see any sense in this, the maximum "role" he has is a spectator,that&#39;s a thought I had, to make things easier.

it&#39;s really nice to hear about people of completely different history. i was burn into Islam and my parents are really religious (in the non-terrorist kinda way) and well, i got bored of having to pray 5 times i day n i started having problems with it, so i decided to quit. i also decided to be more open-minded than my religion allowed me to, such as accepting gays, giving women more rights (some scholars still believe that they dont deserve political equality with men, but most do). i also decided i should be fair with jews, since not all of them are bloody murderers. I also decided to be more liberated, and using my morals rather than my religion to decide on stuff, such as drinking (in Islam, as you might know, it&#39;s one of the greatest sins). Well, basically, i slowly, step by step, turned to the left. Now, i am trying to understand why people don&#39;t believe in God.

[Comrade J]

You&#39;ve basically explained one of the many reasons why people don&#39;t believe in God.
You don&#39;t like some of the teachings of the Qur&#39;an and the Hadith- your common sense and reason tells you women should have the same rights as you, you see there is nothing wrong with being gay or Jewish, praying 5 times a day is ridiculous... yet according to the supposed &#39;word of Allah,&#39; your common sense and self-reasoned morals are wrong. Do you genuinely believe Muhammad led a peaceful, caring life? No he did not, he was by all means a hypocrite.
Then there is the whole creation story, of which there are numerous interesting threads. Personally, I find it incredibly difficult to understand how people can believe an invisible man in the sky created the world around 7000 years ago, told everyone a different story about it and then sent lots of people down to write books on it.

[Gonzo Journalism]

Nah.

Religion was invented to explain things which we don&#39;t understand and stop people fearing death. It is also used to control and manipulate people and is responsible for many wars. Many relgions teach children to believe in it from the moment they were born, whereas if they were allowed the freedom of making up their own mind they would have probably seen how ridiculous it is. Religion is the main cause of cencorship; they don&#39;t want to see someone who has no evidence of even existing portrayed in a bad way so whatever it is gets banned. I&#39;ve always been against religion, even before I was communist.