Stalingrad Lives

[Susurrus]

The Russian city of Volgograd will call itself Stalingrad again for a few days this year, to mark the 70th anniversary of the epic World War II battle in that city, after local officials approved the measure on Thursday.
....
A group of pro-Stalin activists plan to run controversial “Victory Buses” in Volgograd (also known as “Stalinobuses” or “Stalin buses”) decorated with portraits of the Soviet leader, during the anniversary. The Stalin-themed buses will also run in St. Petersburg and Chita.

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130131/179149273.html

Edit: Just found a picture of a Stalin bus. I'm sure someone here owns one.

http://www.agoodtreaty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/stalinbus.jpg

[Kalinin's Facial Hair]

The true bus of the proletariat shall guide us to victory.

[Aurora]

pfff ain't got shit on Trotsky's train.

(oh yes i did)

[Rurkel]

BTW, the text on the bus is:

[The part above the windows] - "I'd like to raise a toast for the health of our Soviet people, and, first and foremost, Russian people!" - I. V. Stalin in Kremlin, 21th may 1945.

(He did really say that, in case you were wondering).

[Below the windows] - "Eternal glory to the victors!"

[Rusty Shackleford]

BTW, the text on the bus is:

[The part above the windows] - "I'd like to raise a toast for the health of our Soviet people, and, first and foremost, Russian people!" - I. V. Stalin in Kremlin, 21th may 1945.

(He did really say that, in case you were wondering).

[Below the windows] - "Eternal glory to the victors!"

is it chauvinism that he is highlighting a population that is taking the greatest its in terms of the soviet union during the war?

i can easily see it as being chauvinistic, but at the same time, i can see it easily being twisted into chauvinism.

[Art Vandelay]

is it chauvinism that he is highlighting a population that is taking the greatest its in terms of the soviet union during the war?

i can easily see it as being chauvinistic, but at the same time, i can see it easily being twisted into chauvinism.

The only way I can see it not being interpreted as chauvinism, is if someone twists it into non-chauvinism; it goes well with his other nationalistic characteristics however.

[Paul Pott]

Russia was the leading component of the USSR. Economically, culturally, socially, militarily, politically, etc. That's just how it was. And it sacrificed the most in the war while producing the fewest collaborators, traitors, and separatists.

Stalin isn't demeaning the efforts of the Ukrainian, Byelorusian, Georgian, etc. soldiers and partisans, or saying that Russians are superior, but lauding the heroism of the people like those of Moscow, Stalingrad, and Leningrad in refusing to give in to the enemy and being essential to halting the nazis in their tracks and running them back to Berlin. All Russian cities.

So I agree. The victory belonged to all the Soviet people, and to all of the people who resisted the Axis everywhere, especially the Russian people.

[Geiseric]

Russia was the leading component of the USSR. Economically, culturally, socially, militarily, politically, etc. That's just how it was. And it sacrificed the most in the war while producing the fewest collaborators, traitors, and separatists.

Stalin isn't demeaning the efforts of the Ukrainian, Byelorusian, Georgian, etc. soldiers and partisans, or saying that Russians are superior, but lauding the heroism of the people like those of Moscow, Stalingrad, and Leningrad in refusing to give in to the enemy and being essential to halting the nazis in their tracks and running them back to Berlin. All Russian cities.

So I agree. The victory belonged to all the Soviet people, and to all of the people who resisted the Axis everywhere, especially the Russian people.

Ummm you don't think eastern europe in general was being genocided? This campaign is clearly nationalist, you have to be a dolt not to see that, so they're using WW2 propaganda for it, which was also soviet, specifically russian nationalist.

[Yuppie Grinder]

o boy let's romanticize the greatest massacre in human history
this is especially great since some of the gargantuan amount of soviet casualities could have been avoided if the military weren't structured so terribly ineffeciantely, which was stalin's fault

[DasFapital]

too bad the engine keeps stalin' :laugh::laugh: (i'll show myself out)

[Rurkel]

Yeah, considering all other tendencies during that time in the USSR, you'd have to twist Stalin's pronouncement as for it not to have a hint of Russian nationalism. The whole "post-Stalin revisionist USSR was social-Russian-chauvinist, as opposed to the 'Stalinist' one" thesis is demonstrably wrong, pretty much.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130131/179149273.html

Edit: Just found a picture of a Stalin bus. I'm sure someone here owns one.

http://www.agoodtreaty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/stalinbus.jpg

If I ever have a kid, he's getting a Stalinobus. So cool.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

defend the motherland!

no wait, abolish all states.

But defend the motherland to glorious victory.

But communism?

Nah, not yet. We don't like states but we think the motherland is glorious:rolleyes:

[Geiseric]

defend the motherland!

no wait, abolish all states.

But defend the motherland to glorious victory.

But communism?

Nah, not yet. We don't like states but we think the motherland is glorious:rolleyes:

Forgetting lesser evilism of choosing to protect "democracies" with non aggression pacts, leading to the demobilization of the mainstream communist movement.

[Rusty Shackleford]

lets just forget that marxism is not the infallible word of god an can never go wrong. Let us not forget that marxism is a method, like science, which must be applied and learned from. Let us also never forget that there is such a thing as material conditions/circumstance that reflect on the decisions of people world wide.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

lets just forget that marxism is not the infallible word of god an can never go wrong. Let us not forget that marxism is a method, like science, which must be applied and learned from. Let us also never forget that there is such a thing as material conditions/circumstance that reflect on the decisions of people world wide.

Let us not forget that Stalin was a backstabbing, nationalist, right-wing fucker who ordered anything to the left of himself that existed during the october revolution to be slaughtered and that no twisting of the facts into American Democratesque 'every leader makes his mistakes' nonsense by Marxist-Lenisists can distort this historical fact.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Let us not forget that Stalin was a backstabbing, nationalist, right-wing fucker who ordered anything to the left of himself that existed during the october revolution to be slaughtered and that no twisting of the facts into American Democratesque 'every leader makes his mistakes' nonsense by Marxist-Lenisists can distort this historical fact.

why are you mad though?


one could even say stalin was a bit of a centrist within the party. can i back it up? not very well, but i guess bukharin would be a good point.


as far as nationalism goes, if you mean georgian nationalist in the narrow sense, no. If you mean soviet nationalist i dont think the soviet union constituted a nation. (could be wrong though)

was he a chauvanist? more than likely on numerous occasions.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

one could even say stalin was a bit of a centrist within the party. can i back it up? not very well, but i guess bukharin would be a good point.

I don't quite think the point is where he is on the left-right scale, the point is he was a dictator (not in teh 'ZOMGZZZZ DICTATOR' sense, but in the literal sense!), on his watch whom so many revolutionary comrades were murdered for reasons of political power, which SHOULD be inexcusable but seemingly, amongst those who defend him, is not.



as far as nationalism goes, if you mean georgian nationalist in the narrow sense, no. If you mean soviet nationalist i dont think the soviet union constituted a nation. (could be wrong though)

I don't understand why you do this? That's like saying because England is part of Great Britain/United Kingdom, you technically can't have an English Nationalist. You might be right, but we all know that there are loads of English Nationalists. Same story.


Conscious of the shitstorm that's gonna go down here, this is my last post in this thread and on this subject. It's just not very interesting.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I don't quite think the point is where he is on the left-right scale, the point is he was a dictator (not in teh 'ZOMGZZZZ DICTATOR' sense, but in the literal sense!), on his watch whom so many revolutionary comrades were murdered for reasons of political power, which SHOULD be inexcusable but seemingly, amongst those who defend him, is not.




I don't understand why you do this? That's like saying because England is part of Great Britain/United Kingdom, you technically can't have an English Nationalist. You might be right, but we all know that there are loads of English Nationalists. Same story.


Conscious of the shitstorm that's gonna go down here, this is my last post in this thread and on this subject. It's just not very interesting.


i did not mean to blend georgian and soviet(like english/british). I think i see what you mean by it though. I guess my point is that the SU had dozens of nations within it that were probably more or less disjointed at times so the union of the nation states under one federal union is more of a political union of independent nations than a national union, though russian national hegemony still existed. Unike GB where a hand full of nations were conquered and assimilated, generally, into the english way thus moving closer to what a nation could be.


And yes, its a boring argument and arguments about stalin generally are atrocious.

[Sir Comradical]

Svyaschennaya Voinaaaaaaa!!!!

[Rurkel]

If you mean soviet nationalist i dont think the soviet union constituted a nation. (could be wrong though)
Well, Stalin did say "Soviet People", not "Soviet Peoples". The concept of Soviet People was also prominent post-Stalin.

Basically, everything can be a nation!

[Ismail]

Well, Stalin did say "Soviet People", not "Soviet Peoples". The concept of Soviet People was also prominent post-Stalin.

Basically, everything can be a nation!"Soviet peoples" and "Soviet people" were used interchangeably under Lenin and Stalin to refer to the former, meaning nations grouped under the banner of the USSR. After them, however, the Soviet revisionists had this idea of a "unified Soviet people" as a way to encourage the Russianization of the other cultures, and even talked of a "universal socialist nationality" in regards to the USSR and the Warsaw Treaty states.

[o well this is ok I guess]

So sectarian shit aside we can all agree that bus is pretty baller