A question for former right-libertarians.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Ever since my language studies have gotten into stroll, I've been longing to get into political discussion once more - preferably with the radical free-market loving successor to American progressive movements that we all love to hate.

What I'm hoping for is to ask any Ex-libertarian/'Anarcho-Capitalist'/Objectivists on precisely what they stood for while they identified as such, along with what drew them to such an intriguing part of the political section, some of the common arguments espoused by members of this political section and finally what made them break ties in the long term.

The reason for this is my nagging suspicion of distortion. While I could just rip out a page of Rand or quote a particularly horrible libertarian's comments on political economy, the feeling rings too eerie of a particularly sexist fellow who believes that he knows everything about Feminism from a skim read of Radical-Feminists-want-to-ban-heterosexual-intercourse.com. While I have no qualms dismissing this new trend of Right-Populism as repulsive, the bottom line is that not every Libertarian/AnCap/whateverthefuck IS a Rand-toting black-killer (I've seen these people defend unions as being a business in and of themselves or something), so I'd prefer response from former-libertarians with real positions, knowledge of the movement and information on why they broke away, rather than someone who while on-key only targets a particular force in the movement (we all hopefully know that feeling well, being members of the far left and all. Hail Stalin).

Forgive me if I sound like I'm rambling; I'm tired. I await and appreciate any responses.

[Oswy]

Though I've never been one of them I've undertaken a lot of debate with self-identifying libertarians and one theme which comes across very strongly is an obsession with their (imagined) autonomy - fuck everyone and everything else.

[The Red Comet]

I may be hanged for this. But I was a Right-Libertarian many many years ago. My train of thought was that the individual should be entitled to reap what he sows. Without the government or anyone else infringing upon the profits which they reaped. I also had a distrust for the United States government due to the corruption is shows - But I was under the impression that the government controlled corporations as opposed to the other way around. I held the view that Socialism inevitably turned into State Capitalism - Therefore was not worth trifling with. As the State would dictate who and what the ruling class was - As opposed to the respective work and money placed into building capital on one's own device.

I also held the belief that by helping one's self and improving their situation they were indirectly helping the collective. That everyone striving for their own selfish needs and goals would somehow benefit the collective as a whole - While also generating "competition" that would prevent "Stagnation".

In terms of why I broke away. I kept losing debates to friends of mine who were Socialist. So I picked up the source material (The Communist Manifesto) in an attempt to find holes in the source, but what I found was that I agreed with Marxism. And that the faults I had with it were strawman arguments and blatant propaganda drilled into my head by my family all my life. I began to realize that it wasn't the state that was at fault for the corrupt or disparity in living conditions (Or the fault of an individual themself) but rather the corporations that were pulling the strings all along. I also slowly began to see that the state was simply a tool and one that could be used to make certain those who DID work DID reap what they sow (Socialism).

TLDR: I realized that in spirit I was probably a Socialist all along. But was lead astray by propaganda that had been drilled into my head all my life by being in the United States and being raised by two products of the Cold War. I also began to learn not everyone was truly in charge of their own destiny - So it was an inherent philosophical change as well as a political one.

I hope this helps.

[Oswy]

I may be hanged for this. But I was a Right-Libertarian many many years ago. My train of thought was that the individual should be entitled to reap what he sows. Without the government or anyone else infringing upon the profits which they reaped. I also had a distrust for the United States government due to the corruption is shows - But I was under the impression that the government controlled corporations as opposed to the other way around. I held the view that Socialism inevitably turned into State Capitalism - Therefore was not worth trifling with. As the State would dictate who and what the ruling class was - As opposed to the respective work and money placed into building capital on one's own device.

I also held the belief that by helping one's self and improving their situation they were indirectly helping the collective. That everyone striving for their own selfish needs and goals would somehow benefit the collective as a whole - While also generating "competition" that would prevent "Stagnation".

In terms of why I broke away. I kept losing debates to friends of mine who were Socialist. So I picked up the source material (The Communist Manifesto) in an attempt to find holes in the source, but what I found was that I agreed with Marxism. And that the faults I had with it were strawman arguments and blatant propaganda drilled into my head by my family all my life. I began to realize that it wasn't the state that was at fault for the corrupt or disparity in living conditions (Or the fault of an individual themself) but rather the corporations that were pulling the strings all along. I also slowly began to see that the state was simply a tool and one that could be used to make certain those who DID work DID reap what they sow (Socialism).

TLDR: I realized that in spirit I was probably a Socialist all along. But was lead astray by propaganda that had been drilled into my head all my life by being in the United States and being raised by two products of the Cold War. I also began to learn not everyone was truly in charge of their own destiny - So it was an inherent philosophical change as well as a political one.

I hope this helps.

Thanks.

In a world where everyone had equal access to equal resources all of the time I could at least see where right-libertarians might be coming from; be productive by your own hand and benefit, failt to be productive and suffer the consequences. It wouldn't be my philosophy (not least because we don't all possess the same productive potentials, no matter how much effort we might provide) but I can see the internal logic of it. The trouble is that in a finite world of finite resources and which are cut up among owners, some big, some small, there is and can be no equal access to equal resources in these terms.

[blake 3:17]

I was never a right Libertarian, but I am at times sympathetic to some of their positions.

What I find the oddest contradiction is how statist many of them are when push comes to shove -- either police or military.

The smartest right libertarian in Canada is Tom Flanagan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Flanagan_(political_scientist) I consider him a very serious enemy but worth following.

Here's a backgrounder on him: http://thewalrus.ca/the-man-behind-stephen-harper/

If you google : www.theglobeandmail.com tom flanagan , you can find his main recent commentaries.

He is smart and evil.