Study shows that the Occupy Wall Street kids were bourgeois

[Comrade #138672]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100200771/study-shows-that-the-occupy-wall-street-kids-were-the-children-of-the-elite-what-a-surprise/

A new attack on Occupy Wall Street?

Their line of reasoning is: they are are "children of the elite", therefore they did not represent the 99% they said they were representing. So, now, apparently, we can go back to ignoring all the problems caused by Capitalism and pretend that people want it this way, except for a very small group that is only fighting against their own class.

Is it true that we can consider them bourgeois? Are they the bourgeois intelligentsia 'betraying' their own class and fighting for the revolution like Engels? Or are they the most advanced layer - and the most class conscious - of the proletariat?

Or is it something else?

[Kalinin's Facial Hair]

That is one ridiculous article.

The majority was well-educated, white and employed. So what? From this we can only conclude that the movement was disconnected from the working class.

The article implies that 'rich kids' cannot be marxists, or whatever. Though I still doubt OWS had a proletarian character

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Well the study says it had in-depth interviews with 25 "core" Occupy activists and surveyed 729 people on May Day when there were thousands of people out in the streets that day if I'm not mistaken. And I think this is obviously a very biased article against Occupy, it's pretty obvious this is like a pretty mocking tone. Just look at the video they posted at the top of this article. Video of weird Maoist dude and creepy rainbow shirt guy saying Lenin was probably a German agent. It's funny because they're obviously mocking OWS using stuff like 55% of the protesters were male when that number actually looks pretty good to me.

[ellipsis]

There was a big difference in character between regular active Occupy organizers, folks who lived in camp, and weekend warriors who would show up to big events, like may day. I have about a dozen comrades currently waiting to stand trial for an occupy action who are all homeless, and two of whom are pregnant or recently given birth.

[ellipsis]

but yes there was definitely the white, liberal, young professional element.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Can someone please change the source link to a more neutral source? Do a simple Google search to confirm recent websites stating that more than two-thirds of Occupy participants had professional jobs ("go get a job"?), almost four-fifths had a bachelor's degree (and almost two-fifths with a master's degree), nearly a third lost a job and/or are indebted, and the big one: underemployment.

[B5C]

Can someone please change the source link to a more neutral source?


Does this help?
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/29/occupy_protesters_professional_and_well_educated/

[#FF0000]

OWS sucked, though. The other regional occupations were better, e.g. Portland, Oakland.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I don't get why he says the movement was racially biased and gendered to any kind of meaningful rate. 55% male? So about half male? Wow.:rolleyes:

Also, 62% non-Hispanic white? Considering that the percentage of whites in the US is about ten percentage points higher than that, I don't think that's that bad either...

[Os Cangaceiros]

I do think, though, that OWS had a LOT of room for improvement, in a number of different areas. But I don't think that conservatives have a lot of room to talk on the issue of exclusionary politics...

[ellipsis]

OWS sucked, though. The other regional occupations were better, e.g. Portland, Oakland.
cough San Francisco cough

[B5C]

cough San Francisco cough

You might want to tell Occupy San Francisco's facebook page to stop posting stuff from Alex Jones or Jeff Rense.

[ellipsis]

You might want to tell Occupy San Francisco's facebook page to stop posting stuff from Alex Jones or Jeff Rense.

I'd rather just show the bunch of them up by helping to plan the best action done under that banner.

[Aussie Trotskyist]

I find it hard to believe that the intelligentsia is somehow bourgeois.

An academic class (in fact, anyone with academic leanings) is able to think and make their own decisions. They are so diverse, that you cannot call the whole class 'bourgeois' or 'proletarian'.

Individual academics lean their own way. They are not as subject to propaganda etc as most people.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Oh really? There's a line of people starting with Noam Chomsky that would like a word with you.


Individual academics lean their own way. They are not as subject to propaganda etc as most people.

[Popular Front of Judea]

My local Occupy had a rather polarized character. Idealistic students and graduates and street people. One group that was notably absent was working people -- unless of course they were unemployed. Though even there they were under-represented. The only time they showed was when there were rallies etc.

Our Occupy pretty much spun off into its own alternate reality.


There was a big difference in character between regular active Occupy organizers, folks who lived in camp, and weekend warriors who would show up to big events, like may day. I have about a dozen comrades currently waiting to stand trial for an occupy action who are all homeless, and two of whom are pregnant or recently given birth.

[bricolage]

]Also, 62% non-Hispanic white? Considering that the percentage of whites in the US is about ten percentage points higher than that, I don't think that's that bad either...
True, but it's about 18 or so percent points lower in New York.
Actually I didn't read the whole report, was it just about the New York occupation?

[Os Cangaceiros]

^that's true. I think it was only about the Zuccotti park occupation.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Meh, it's the Telegraph; tedious Tory rag, right-wing biased all the way.

[o well this is ok I guess]

The only time they showed was when there were rallies etc. It's not as if people with 9-5's can just up and live in tents.
Generally speaking, it's a lot easier for students to maintain an occupation, as profs won't care if you come in showerless and nap in class.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

You know who else was a white middle class professional?

This guy:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Lenin_CL.jpg/404px-Lenin_CL.jpg


It's like everyone buys this inverted "White Guilt" that any white person who is middle class is a hypocrite if they are a Leftist. Only people of color and the children of janitors can authentically protest. Who gives a fuck?

[khad]

You know who else was a white middle class professional?

It's like everyone buys this inverted "White Guilt" that any white person who is middle class is a hypocrite if they are a Leftist. Only people of color and the children of janitors can authentically protest. Who gives a fuck?
Probably the worst example you can think of.

Here's a picture of Lenin's father, clearly showing his Asian ancestry. He was a leading figure in public education for ethnic minorities in Russia:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/photo/family/lenin-father.jpg

According to the Embassy of Kalmykia:

http://www.kalmykiaembassy.ru/html/eculture.html


famous people of Russia had Kalmyk relatives: Vladimir Lenin's grandmother was a Kalmyk, Lavr Kornilov, one of his opponents was also of a Kalmyk origin.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Here's a picture of his father, clearly showing his Asian ancestry. He worked in public education for ethnic minorities in Russia:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/photo/family/lenin-father.jpg

According to the Embassy of Kalmykia:

http://www.kalmykiaembassy.ru/html/eculture.html

Even if Lenin isn't white according to old fashioned notions of racial purity, it's not like history isn't full of middle class white activists, leftist intellectuals and so on. Are you agreeing with the thesis that white middle class activists are hypocrites who ruin movements, or are you just looking for a more ironclad example?

You have Engels, Sartre, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Bakunin, Kropotkin and many others. If you want to throw Jewish folks in (who would get passed off as "middle class whites" these days) the number increases even more. Should we ignore their contributions because they were economically and racially privileged? Should middle class whites be automatically excluded from Leftist movements in the future?


A side note, his father sported some pretty stylish sideburns.

[khad]

Even if Lenin isn't white according to old fashioned notions of racial purity, it's not like history isn't full of middle class white activists, leftist intellectuals and so on. Are you agreeing with the thesis that white middle class activists are hypocrites who ruin movements, or are you just looking for a more ironclad example?
You can read, can't you? I said it's a poor example, no more, no less. But you can let your imagination run wild--don't let me stop you.

[Red Commissar]

What I never understood about these news articles is they'd attack OWS on three fronts, either

A. Being jobless bums representing "criminal elements", flunkouts from school, etc.
B. Middle-Class kids with worthless degrees
C. Pointing out hypocrisy that some participants were not working class types

IMO the three are so different. On one count, they are criticized for being drifters and dumb, and on another for being too educated and professional. It should be obvious to anyone there's an agenda here to smear them, but what's worse is some people went along with them. I had a right-wing nut at my work once go on about OWS first being a bunch of criminals then to privileged kids and back. All while talking about the same bunch of people.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

You can read, can't you? I said it's a poor example, no more, no less. But you can let your imagination run wild--don't let me stop you.

If you notice I was quoting an older version which hadn't been edited. Well, problem solved, better examples have already been found.

[B5C]

A side note, his father sported some pretty stylish sideburns.

I think nearly every revolutionary needs some good sideburns. Like me! :D

[piet11111]

My impression of OWS was of a potential mass movement being sterilized because of "no politics".

I was not there and can not say what allowed this to happen but i would like to know more about your views of why OWS failed.

[Popular Front of Judea]

The press that was critical of OWS were able to point out those faults because they existed. You had relatively privileged college educated children of the middle class who were the public face of Occupy, street people who comprised the bulk of the campers and working people were noticeable by their absence. If acknowledging demographic reality is collaboration then count me in.


What I never understood about these news articles is they'd attack OWS on three fronts, either

A. Being jobless bums representing "criminal elements", flunkouts from school, etc.
B. Middle-Class kids with worthless degrees
C. Pointing out hypocrisy that some participants were not working class types

IMO the three are so different. On one count, they are criticized for being drifters and dumb, and on another for being too educated and professional. It should be obvious to anyone there's an agenda here to smear them, but what's worse is some people went along with them. I had a right-wing nut at my work once go on about OWS first being a bunch of criminals then to privileged kids and back. All while talking about the same bunch of people.

[ellipsis]

Side note, I'm trying to drum up discussion about the radical lefts engagement with occupy here http://www.revleft.com/vb/analysis-anti-capitalists-t177571/index.html

[Raúl Duke]

In my experience, educated people with degrees were the minority in my local Occupy. One significant population was mostly young adults who seemed to have had a middle class upbringing that collapsed once the housing market went belly up, some had shit jobs and others were unemployed. Although there was a substantial amount of older people too.

[ellipsis]

In my experience, educated people with degrees were the minority in my local Occupy. One significant population was mostly young adults who seemed to have had a middle class upbringing that collapsed once the housing market went belly up, some had shit jobs and others were unemployed. Although there was a substantial amount of older people too.

Obviously SF was probably one of the more affluent occupy groups, but then there are the formerly middle class folk you talk about and a lot of streets kids (some overlap there), older liberal hippies, local anarchists/-types, answer folks, and then RCP and other fringe groups.

Even if folks were educated, it is likely they had no profession, lets face it, a BA doesn't get you too far these days.

[blake 3:17]

When the revolution in Egypt started there was an interview with a young man who'd jumped through all the hoops, had a degree in something relatively practical, and had been unemployed for three years.

A big impetus behind Occupy is the total frustration not just about upward mobility, but achieving any kind of economic stability. For the past several years I've been working for the exactly the same wage I received in 2000. And that's one university degree, one diploma, recognition from a professional association, and 13 years experience later. Living expenses have doubled in the mean time. Being a revolutionary socialist hasn't help career wise, but I don't think has hindered it except from keeping me from being a lackey stooge.

I don't see any shame in being soooooooooooooo middle class and professional, while working my ass off at hard work with absolutely zero job security.

I find it really intriguing and disappointing that in movement organizations which acknowledge these issues, nobody really wants to talk about it. For folks with security, they lament our fates. For us with no security, what do we do? Whine?

Occupy is a better response.